CP: Read my post on your thread.

CV: I will update you later on the "saga."

Hello, S, just dropping by to say congratulations and hello. And also offer a little warning: your current Plan B high is a phase, of course. I, too, have experienced it. But, unlike you, I live in a small community where I am forced to witness the apotheosis of H and OW, nutty as she is. (Presumably, the apotheosis will be short-lived, but who knows.) That tends to bring down the highs on a regular basis.

What bugs me a bit in modern society is that in our current life situations is that we are supposed to be upbeat, chirpy, excited about our "new life." The current phase of my life is somber and sobering -- which does not mean that it doesn't have its highs. People keep encouraging you to "let go" and "move on" -- but it's okay to be reflective, it's okay to mourn what has been lost, it's okay to try to heal slowly, and not in keeping with society's imaginary pace.

Our life is a train journey, and we are not always going through Disneyland. Sometimes we go through the ghettos, sometimes through cities. But we have to embrace it as all part of the same journey. One wouldn't want to leave a movie just because one got to the sad part!

Anyway, Tuesday morning reflections...you are doing great. My W-STBX-H is also in the swampland biz. Funny to see evil face-to-face, innit? Sobering.

PS. Keep posting on here. You'll be an inspiration.

AMM: I've got one thing to say to your response.....TRUE NUFF!

I have got to admit there are definitive highs and lows in all of this. But I also think my most prevelant emotions are that of recognizing what a waste it all was.

Let me explain.

Last night I met with STBXWH, and we talked about the Big D and I don't mean Dallas, and who was going to get what, and who was going to pay for what, and who was going to see the kids and when and who was going to pay to raise the kids and how much. It was an unusually healthy conversation.

I felt like we both agreed to a pretty equitable agreement. He made some little smart alecky comments, and I made some little smart alecky comments:

For example:
Me: This is going to be very difficult for you to pay considering your current situation. Won't this be kinda painful.
Mr. STBXWH: No more painful than the last 10 years has been, in other ways.
Me:(( LAUGHING))
Mr. STBXWH: What is so funny?
Me: Well, you know, you had the option as a intelligent adult to make some different choices that could have directly impacted your happiness and been a lot less painful than all of this (me gesturing to the dissolution papers spread out on the table).
Mr. STBXWH: True. Very true. But I felt I was in no position to do anything other than what I did at the time.
Me: Well, I know you thought you were justified at the time, but nothing ever ever ever ever ever will justify the choices you made. No matter the status of our marriage. And it pisses me off when you try to do that. And it is too far gone, so stop it. Stop trying to justify. Just stop it. It will never be an acceptable choice in my book.
Mr. STBXWH: (crying) I know that now. I also know deep down inside that I cannot ever be with you in a romantic sense and be happy. I just know this, but I also know I could have fixed it before it got too far. But it was "too far" for too long, and then I just made it worse. I just set everything on fire.
Me: You just should have said something, or at the very least, took the brave way out and manned it up enough to end the marriage before you started another relationship. That can't make you sleep well at night.
Mr. STBXWH: I know. (crying)

My point is, I am over the marriage, I am. And I know there will be days when that hurts, and days when it feels good, and days when I feel numb, but ultimately, what a shame. What a waste. It could have, at some point in the distant past, been so much different. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Or my favorite saying, "If "If" and "butts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas."

We laughed. I teased him about at least getting a girlfriend on this continent. I told him I am having trouble hating him, although I do not love him in the starry eyed, romantic sense anymore, but care for him more as a fellow human being and the father of my children. He told me he still cared about me as a friend, and hoped we could be friends for the kids one day. I told him he has treated me worse than my worse enemies, so that will take a lot of time. He told me he held no bitterness. I told him I could not say the same. We laughed.

It was the weirdest thing. It was a sort of cordial finality. A friendly "F-U."

Who knows what I will think of all of this tomorrow!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He told me he held no bitterness. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's like the murderer going to the bereaved family and saying "I bear you no malice."

T, very great words! Some that I need to hear right now and I thank you immensely!

S, you did a gret job in recovering for yourself. I love your first post. Sorry I missed that the first place, i was immerse in my own situation too much. I wish you well. I can't imagine that soon I will be after you, talking about the big D. You are brave, you are strong. GOD bless you and your children.

L&H: not so brave, and not so strong. Making a lot of mistakes along the way. Realizing that my own recovery is a LONG way off...

S, my Wh asked for D since January. Did you see his recent letter to me? I am so pissed off. I am very very sad now. what do you do in this holiday weekend?

Just read it...what a j*****s. So....ARE YOU IN TORONTO RECLAIMING YOUR LIFE YET?????

(((((((((((((lostnhurt)))))))))))))))

Hugs to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

I will be going to Toronto tomorrow. Wh said he will come with us, but he is no where to be found now. WHo cares, I am packing. Will you be meeting me there? You had my cell phone number right? Keep in touch, hope to see you up there.

I would LOVE to go to Toronto....how long will you be there????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Am I the only one lonely, with nothing to do tonight?

chirp chirp chirp...apparently so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

S, I am lonely too. Just finished talking with Orchid. Do you want to talk to me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I the only one lonely, with nothing to do tonight?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope! X just took the children. I don't think I have the will to drag myself out to the porch and watch the fireworks without my babies. I thought about you on the way to the music store today, but managed to walk out without the CDs you recommended <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm so absentminded. I saw your posts on my thread but I haven't read through them all yet. I saw the bit about the manifesto request. I'll have to take a running start at that since I'm not feeling terribly verbose or creative, maybe tomorrow in the morning. I'll take my laptop out into the sunshine if the weather is nice. That's always a picker upper.

CP: Ok...well, I think I am going to stop posting on that thread. I don't think my comments have been really well received (maybe I am a bit too direct, sorry if I am). And I know I pissed off KY and Robby with what I thought was a funny Nascar joke...they didn't seem to be laughing....so, sorry again.

I hear your pain. And it sucks. But you have to work through it, which it sounds like you are...so....stay the course.

And who is the loser now. It is 4:30 in the am and here I am posting on the damn site....pathetic.

Ok...the following note is for the benefit of all those people who touted how healthy my recovery was seeming, and proof that AMM knew what she was talking about when she told me I am not off the roller coaster yet....

I am hurting.

It is 4th of July, and I am all by myself. Well, really now, it is the 5th of July, and it is a vacation day, and I am still all by myself.

I think major holidays are going to be especially difficult for me. Why?

Well, for starters, I am AMAZINGLY social. I feel best when I am surrounded by people I love. And I love a lot of people. Have no shortage of friends that make me LAUGH OUT LOUD. Have one set of friends that could seriously be on SNL if they wanted to be, they are so damn funny. And my family, while a little eccentric, is great too. My mom and dad and brother and grandma live about 10 minutes from me (can I tell you how great it is to still have my grandma in my life....when all this stuff hurts, she can still hug me and tell me how special I am and it makes me melt inside, plus, she smells like sugar cookies). And of course, I have my beautiful children that make me laugh and cry and sometimes yell in my life.

I think the fact that I was adopted makes it that I feel best when I am amply accepted, surrounded by a lot of people, like I am the prom queen or something. Does this make any sense? In other words, in the small, hidden, dark and dank corners of my soul, I am still a bit, ok well a LOT, worried about being rejected and abandoned, so that if I have a lot of people around me who love and accept me, than all is well with the world (they can't all unilaterally ditch me, I reason with myself).

So, here I am, crapping my pants, sucking my thumb, in the fetal position, all alone. That awakens in me a pain that I cannot even articulate.

By the way, imagine the pain that was awakened in me when my best friend and love of my life, well, rejected and abadoned me. Sometimes I realy really really really really really hate him for this. He and I were talking recently, and he said he knew for many years I was carrying around emotional baggage from the adoption (something, by the way, I only figured out myself about 6 months ago, just after Dday), and it was placing an unfair burden on him and the marriage. WHY THE HELL DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING, or TRY TO F'IN HELP ME??????? He said, he just thought I knew, and that I was coping to the best of my ability, even if it was damaging the relationship. Which sucks on many levels, because, it makes me feel responsible for what he has done (because that is just my over-achiever so you won't ditch me way....a vicious cycle, really). And intellectually I know I was not responsible for his choices. But emotionally, I wonder, if only I would have needed less, wanted less, needed less reassurances, needed less love, intimacy, connection. If only I would have been a better wife, and better friend, a better lover. If only I would have been a better girl. A better person. Would I have been more worthy then? Would I have earned his loyal commitment then??? That is the little girl in me, wanting so badly to be good enough, so I never have to feel that rejection again. What a [censored] for knowing my deepest darkest fear, seemingly better than I knew it, and then doing the very thing that would destroy me. [censored].

I crave intimacy in a way I cannot even explain. And not in a sexual sense, although that is a big need for me. I mean it more in a closeness, soul bearing soul, honest, pure, completely connected, soulmate kinda way that only a love relationship can bring. And at this stage of my life, I just don't have it. It is too soon for that type of connection in any type of dating relationship I would have. Too soon for me to give someone that kind of access to my heart. And maybe it is a connection I should no longer seek from a partner in a love relationship. And it is a burden and responsibility I cannot put on my children...they do not have the capacity to provide that. Neither do my friends or family. And really, the only one who can do that, is probably God. But in case you have not noticed that from the tone of my more recent posts, He and I have grown apart somewhat over the past few months. We were closer than ever, and now, I know I have stepped back...not really sure why. Maybe I am mad at Him for taking away someone else in my life, and allowing me to feel abadoned and unworthy of love, that forever, soul bonding kinda love, that I need so badly. Perhaps God is allowing that so I will only seek that from Him.

So, this lonely 4th of July (WH has the kids), I went to my Mom and Dad's house. We ate hamburgers, played cards, watched Top Gun, shot off fireworks for my little nephew who is two. It was fun. But it still felt a little empty.

I remembered last 4th of July. I had bought an inexpensive package of fireworks at the grocery for the family to let off in the evening. I remember my husband telling me how white trash it was to let off fireworks, he went on and on and on about how he refused to let them off, hated fireworks, it is nedneckish, etc. And he did not let them off...no matter how I pleaded, reasoned, teased, or negotiated. And we did not see fireworks that night.

I remembered tonight that night a year ago, and how it hurt my feelings. Come on. That could have been a simple, harmless family tradition that would have made the kids so happy. I remembered how impressed I would be as a kid at the sparkling fireworks, loud pops, beautiful colors, and would feel a surge of awe and love for this country we live in. And my husband did not want to give this neat little gift to our kids. Why? Because I did want to, and it was a control thing. Maybe...who knows.

Sorry for the ranting, illogical progression of my thoughts. This whole thread has been a stream of consciousness of sorts for me, so it is illogical and disorganized by that fact alone.

Am I left to feel isolated? Lonely. On the brink of rejection. On the brink of not being good enough to "earn" and "keep" that intimacy I need so much?

Hurting. Not for the WH this man is. Not really for this marriage. It is over and I can accept that. Really, mostly hurting because I am feeling some feelings that I never wanted to feel, and would at all costs try to avoid in my life. Rejection. Abadonment. Betrayal. Isolation. And amazement that I gave access to a person parts of my soul that were so sacred, and he would not respect that. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Just wanted to let you know that there is always someone listening, no matter what time of day it is! My excuse: Im in the UK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your posts are inspirational and full of all the emotions you are going through. Even at your worst you still manage to portray a strong, intelligent woman with an excellent sense of humour who loves her family and essentially loves herself, even if she doesnt know it.

Enjoy the holiday today, hope you feel better soon.

Sending lots of love

S, I am in Toronto already and will stay till at least the end of the month. Will you be here?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And who is the loser now. It is 4:30 in the am and here I am posting on the damn site....pathetic.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bah... been there, done that. No losers here. Just us... um, just us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My well of words is still dry today, I have nothing good to say. Down in the dumps, but trying not to wallow. At least the muck seems to be down around my waist and not up around my neck.

I envy your support group. X was my everything for the last 5 years and all the ties that were their before she came are gone. While she has her tird to cling to, I'm left treading water alone, and shore looks so far away.

Did you see that movie today? When did you ever sleep?!

Wish I could send you a hug to squeeze the hurt out. Always works for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> People should hug more. Are you a hug person? I'm a little picky about who I'll hug, but it's oh so good when it happens. I'm raising little huggers. DD4 would hug a tree stump if she thought it looked sad.

And while I type this, you've gone and posted my encouragement on my journal! Have I thanked you lately for being so good to me?

Thank you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Enough babbling for now, I'll come back when I have something good to say.