I think you need to re-read the postings Dewt.

Peace,
Odyssey

Dewt - hon - try listening. Listening is not the same as hearing or reading. When you just read and don't LISTEN or THINK about what we've said - you immediatly start coming up with arguments.

This IS Marriage Building advice. What you are doing is not going to get your marriage back, nor will it lead to a healthier environment for your son. Well, I can't say that with 100% accuracy - but the odds are against you. Your making decision about the next 8 years, based on what you've been able to handle for the past couple of weeks. How many months has it been since you've demonstrated the ability to 'sacrifice your needs'??

You haven't listened to much advice in the past, so I don't expect you'll listen to this either. But for the record - if you're back in a few months complaining that you're not getting anywhere and can't take it anymore - just know that you were warned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hope4future:
<strong> Dewt - hon - try listening. Listening is not the same as hearing or reading. When you just read and don't LISTEN or THINK about what we've said - you immediatly start coming up with arguments. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who, me? Argumentative??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seriously, I'm sorry to have offended. And I do mean that. It's not my intent. Argueing (debating) is one of the main ways I mull things over. But, having said that, I do want to say that I'll try to curb that because I'm beginning to see how frustrating it is for others.

I do want to get my marriage back. I don't see how asking her to leave is going to work towards that end. It is also my belief that she and I have some issues to resolve in terms of building a relationship that have to be addressed and dealt with before the 'Husband and Wife' thing is even tackled. I think MB principles can help in this respect.

I gotta run off to work. Thanks for your honesty and bluntness.

Any ideas of things I can do that WILL help towards rebuilding my relationship with Dylan?

dewt

Dewt,
if you read carefully, you will understand that we are giving you marriagebuilding advice which is totally in line with a plan B. You,ve plan a'd left right & center. You asked hope4future if she had any ideas about how YOU can rebuild your relationship/marriage. The point that I was trying to make in my former posts to you is that you have been going in circles because it seems that it indeed is ONLY you who is working on it. Dylan is not joining you in this work for now. I think she needs to be made aware that her actions have consequences. One of those consequences should be that she cannot enjoy the benefits of being in the same home as you if she is not ready to commit to rebuilding your marriage. You know, maybe the distance from you, and getting a real separation aggreement and only contact with you regarding matters concerning Mini, maybe these things will draw her near eventually. Anyhow, all this just to say that I do not think we ever mentionned moving on yet...we talked about Dylan moving out and thinking up an alternative plan.
What do you think?

Peace,
Odyssey

Deut,

Personally, I've stopped giving you advice because:

1. You don't take it.

2. You don't get it.

3. Your situation is too quagmired.

You haven't done what I would consider a passable plan A. You've slept with your xW, you've participated in a threesome---the list goes on and on. You ask Dylan to move back but then are "surprised and hurt" when you discover that she's still having an affair AND she's not responding to you.

If I were in your situation, I would continue with a perfect plan A which also involved radical honesty (letting Dylan know that you know the affair is ongoing, that you know she's in contact, etc.), and elimination of lovebusters (pushing for affection, discussions when she's not interesting), and meeting family-centered needs. You should also let her know that you're probably not capable of living with her long-term while she continues the affair. I would also be doing coaching with either the Harley's or Penny.

The problem I have with this plan is that it's not me that is in your situation. It's you. You have consistantly demonstrated an inability to stick with a plan and execute it. If you cannot stick with Plan A and do it effectively, then Plan B is your next step. If you were to do Plan B tomorrow, I think that you have a very low chance of recovering your marriage (<30%). It's better than if you do a crappy job of Plan A over the next few months and reinforce all the negative things that Dylan feels about you. But it's not as good as doing an excellent 3-month Plan A before asking Dylan to leave.

Deut---you talk a good game. But I have seen very few demonstrations of you establishing a good, consistant track record of improved marital behavior here. Until you start doing the work, your marriage is screwed, mini-deut's life is screwed, and Dylan is screwed. Do you need it to be made any simpler for you?

Odyssey,

You said, we talked about Dylan moving out and thinking up an alternative plan.
What do you think?

I think I am grateful that she is here. I think I am grateful that she's made a decision to work on our relationship with me. I think asking her to move out under these circumstances would be a bad idea. I think you may be suffering from a conflict of interest.

K,

I understand your fustration. That being said, I'm glad you popped in and were honest with me.

It's true. There is much I 'don't get'. And the fault lies with me in that often enough I get so wrapped up in arguing the point that I miss the point completely. And of course, there are just some things that I just don't get. This is something I really plan on working on providing you don't give up on me just yet...

Obviously there is some advice I can't take. But you are right in that there is much advice that I should have taken but didn't... and some advice that I took and agreed with, but didn't follow. Again, I understand your frustration.

And yes, my situation is very quagmired. Heck, my thoughts are very quagmired. That's one of the reasons I post... to try and gain enough different viewpoints in an attempt to see through the muck and get a clear view. I'm pretty good at sabotaging my own efforts in this regard. I will try to stop doing this. (I know, 'there is no try... only do or do not do')


It's true, I haven't done a passable plan A. My first instinct is to protest, because on many levels I feel I've tried so hard, but the fact of the matter is that I have failed miserably in some key areas.

You said, "If I were in your situation, I would continue with a perfect plan A which also involved radical honesty (letting Dylan know that you know the affair is ongoing, that you know she's in contact, etc.), and elimination of lovebusters (pushing for affection, discussions when she's not interesting), and meeting family-centered needs. You should also let her know that you're probably not capable of living with her long-term while she continues the affair."

I let Dylan know what I found. I'm being honest and open with her on all fronts. I don't push for affection, and don't push discussions of any sort, and I try to keep my radar tuned so that if any discussions we do have start to lead down the wrong path I can be aware of it and prevent any futher damage. Family centered needs I'm working on, but can see where some improvement is possible.

I've also let her know that whatever our situation, contact with OP is very painful and discomforting to me and if it were to continue, it would cause me great distress and I'm not prepared to go through that again. (boundries)

Dylan understands and has agreed to write a no contact letter.

You said, "You have consistantly demonstrated an inability to stick with a plan and execute it."

No kidding. All that I can say is that I will keep trying. My resolve and consistency is clearly something that I need to work on.

A perfect plan A sounds like a good goal. And if it's not perfect, I will focus on making sure that any slip-ups are minor rather than disastrously huge. I am not ready for Plan B and anyway do not think the situation warrants it. Many of the negative things that Dylan feels about me are justified and I have to work on them even if it's only for my own benefit and personal growth.

Deut---you talk a good game.

That's because I speak from the heart. I need to learn to walk the talk now, consistently and throroughly. I know this.

Until you start doing the work, your marriage is screwed, mini-deut's life is screwed, and Dylan is screwed. Do you need it to be made any simpler for you?

That's pretty simple. Thanks.

dewt

Dewt,
First of all, you never mentionned to any of us here that Dylan had committed to working on your relationship. I think if you had, the responses would have been much different. As for the conflict of interest thing, I m not sure what you are refering to. Your process and situation is very differnt from what mine was. I an not relating to your process nor am I projecting amy of what I have gone through onto your situation. It looks like you are having a hard time being objective.
Now, If Dylan has commiteed to working on your relationship and she is still in your home, I would have to agree with K and encourage you to start again with a good and solid Plan A with no backsliding on your part.

Peace,
Odyssey

If I never mentioned that Dylan had committed to working on a relationship, then I have erred. To be sure it is not the level of commitment I'd hoped for, but it is there nonetheless and to be honest, my actions and behaviours are responsible for making that all the more difficult for her.

Dylan IS committed to working things out with me. As to whether or not we ever share a bed again, that is another story and quite frankly it's a topic that cannot even really be addressed properly until a whole lot of other things happen.

I have a lot to prove to Dylan. I have a lot to make up for. This will take time. Serious time.

As for your 'conflict of interest'... based on the information on these boards, I cannot agree nor disagree about your situation and processes being different from mine. In fact, your posts don't really make it clear why you are here, marriage building. What is clear is that there are many eerie coincidences (situational references, date registered, posting habits, etc.) that make it seem like you are someone I know IRL... and if that is the case, I have to admit to being totally creeped out. If it is not the case, please forgive my paranoia.

dewt

You don't know me Dewt, nor do I know you. I was here about 9 years ago when my marriage was falling apart but under a different profile name. I came back onto this site because of a friend of a friend who was having some difficulties back in April. I read his posts, gave some advice to her to give him and then became interested in helping other poeple again: it's a sort of mission if you will. I do believe in this site and it's precepts but I have learned from my past experience here, that I had to be careful not to get caught up in a "marriage at all costs" mind-set. The personal suffering was too great and too lengthy, my children suffered as well. Your situation, in terms of the length of it, and the suffering you described in your posts are what motivated me to offer you some advice.
There you go, in a nutshell. Thank you for clarifying about Dylan's commitment to you. I believe you have some Plan A-ing to do.
Question: What can you do differently this time around which will make a difference for Dylan and for you? Can you put a mental time frame on it? Is Dylan able to help you become more aware of what she needs from you? This is your chance to snatch her back from the aliens!!!

Peace,
Odyssey

BTW. I forgive you for your paranoia. I do like to help one person at a time because I do not have much time for this and I like to stick to situations and see them to the end.

I will not be posting to you any further because of that paranoia; I believe that if you feel that way, you will not be open to any advice because of an inabilty so see things objectively. At least it explains why you were so defensive in your responses. Also, I feel I don't have the time to waste if you cannot recieve what I have to write to you. I will put my energies into helping someone else.

Peace & God Bless,
Odyssey