HI SS
Well back from my travels- 2000 miles in 6 days!! We travelled for 27 hours last Saturday/sunday and again 27 hours thursday evening through to last night. In between we stayed at a hotel and toured the area. Austria is a beautiful country of mountains and lakes. One evening we attened another hotel for a Tyrolean evening which conssisted of dancing, singing and drinking. The band and singers all wore traditional costume and it was geat fun.
Lovely people and so clean and law abiding!
I met 2 other single ladies and so we joined up and explored together. We plan to meet in 6 months to see how we are doing. they are both facing challenges in their lives and were very interested both in what I had gone through and how my faith had helped me.
I got back at 10pm yesterday and this morning got a text at 6.15am to say the bpoys had landed and would be home by 9.30am. They have arived, and are very tired. Not heard much yet about their time away- though I don't think they enjoyed having 2 younger boys there! They are all out with friends now so its as if they have never been away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
praying hard now for a job as I really need to start somewhere in Oct- as my money will start to run out after that.
Hope you are all ok
jante

Hi
Just had a phone call from T to arrange the weekends from now to christmas- and christmas itself. T wants the boys to start having alternate christmas with us- with them going to him this year. I have agreed, but told him to tell the boys as they won't be happy. led me to a question- who has the most rights here. T to see his boys at christmas or the boys to spend chrsitmas in theior own home!? They have always said they didn't want to go away- and D at nearly 16 really should be able to make his own decision I think but that leaves the other 2.
No easy answers I know
Jante

Hi J,
Sounds like a really fun trip, and you made new friends too. I think that's a good thing, at least it sounds like it is.

I posted that last one to bump it up - and because I was going away for 4 days, but I forgot to mention being gone. Thanks for the report.

One of these next two or three decades, I would like to visit England, and maybe even Austria. You are way ahead of me, but then, I have been to the Grand Canyon already. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Aren't the people at home law abiding and clean too? I laughed when I read that part, but I think I know what you mean. Just to make sure, explain it too me.

So, do the boys have lots of really good stories to tell, or are they mostly horror stories? I am interrested to find out what they thought, but I am sure you are too. I hope you never feel you are being replaced, it couldn't happen.

I really have a hard time with the Christmas plans. T left you. He left you and now he wants every other year, as though it were his right. I am one that believes there should be consenquences to choices like that, and that they ought to be difficult.

I am not sure if you worked out anything in court when the D took place. You have been really kind to T all this time. I don't know if I would have agreed to his request if I had legal standing to say no. However, that is for you to decide, not for me. I suspect the boys WILL have an opinion about it, and you have to deal with that. The older they get, the more they will voice their opinion, and the less chance you both have to force them into anything.

If they all refuse to go, or if they all are united in not wanting to go, what will you tell them? I suppose I ask this mostly because you don't sound as though you believe it is the best thing either, and it is hard to force something upon them that you don't believe your self. I am hoping he doesn't try to bribe them by buying them things to make them want to come, I have seen that happen between D'd parents, and it can get ugly - though I know you wouldn't do that.

I think I would let the boys choose this one. It (Christmas) is a major part of growing up, and I don't think it is fair for T to think he can disrupt time they have out of school just because he wants to, the boys ought to have a say in this part of their life.

I do agree that they need to see him sometimes when they don't want to, but Christmas is a poor time to force that upon them in the name of spending time with Dad.

I wonder if after being with Dad for a much longer time there will be some of the "dad didn't make us do this, why do we have to do it here?" I know children often try to play one parent against the other to get what they view as more freedom. Having children myself, I would be interrested to know what they come up with, however, they may be really glad to be home with you, and they may be perfect for a month or two. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Here are your questions for today.

1. What did you like the best about your trip? I am wondering if it was the scenery, the places you visited, or if it was the company of the two women you met.

2. What was the most interresting thing you learned when the boys returned?

I admit, really want to know if they got to ride scooters too, but I won't ask that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


SS

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS
Aren't the people at home law abiding and clean too? I laughed when I read that part, but I think I know what you mean. Just to make sure, explain it too me.
Actually its the country that is clean- no graffitti or litter anywhere. As for law abiding- the police are very strict and the people seem to be far more rule orientated than we are are in England. The overall impression in Austria is of going back at least half a centuary to a different way of life.

Sounds like a really fun trip, and you made new friends too. I think that's a good thing, at least it sounds like it is.
Yes it was a lovely trip and making new friends helped make the holiday- it was just so good to have people to share the new experiences with. Also it showed me how much I had changed- I was the one who reached out to them and suggested we go round together. They were very pleased I did but would have been too shy to do so themselves. Not so long ago I would have been shy and scared that no one could possibly want to spend time with me. My confidence has grown along with my enjoyment of life.
As far as christmas- and any other visits with T are concerned there was no legal agreement. It was just said that they would live with me and he would see them regularly. Of course up to this year christmas hasn't been an issue. Now it is one as he is with S and obviously wants to spend christmas with her. As her boys spend alternate chistmas's with THEIR dad I suppose it seems to make sense to T that we should go to alternate christmas's too!
I have always bent over backwards to not use the children against T but now wonder if I sometimes go too far the other way at the expense of the childrens happiness. I shall see what reaction I get when T tells them about Christmas and if they are very against it, make a decision then.
There has been no mention of - dad let us do that etc. in many ways he is stricter than me on things. However I gather there were a couple of occasions when S's 2 young ones wound D and A up until they gave in to their frustration and pushed them away. Both times A and D got severely reprimanded from T. In D's case he got so wound up in turn with T for the telling off he was getting D answered back and when T continued to go on at him D threw a cup of apple juice at him. I know I shouldn't smile but I did - T hasn't had to deal with D's teenage tantrums before. T in turn hit D for it and then they walked off talking so A doesn't know what happened ( needless to say I got this story from A!) D's only comment to me on it was he hated the little ones and didn't ever want to go on holiday with them again!!
It seems A accepted his telling off though was frustrated with it as he felt it wasn't fair that the younger two were allowed to annoy them but they couldn't do anything about it.
T also told A off when A spoke to C about his behaviour- seems C was copying the younger two's childish behaviour and acting about 4 not 10! T told A he wasn't C's dad and it wasn't his place to say anything. I explained to A why C behaved as he did, and had to smile when A said to me
" But mum I felt like telling dad hes not been a dad to C so I have to be!!"
Now to your questions:
1. What did you like the best about your trip? I am wondering if it was the scenery, the places you visited, or if it was the company of the two women you met.
A combination! I went because my favourite childhood books were based in part of Austria and so to be able to visit the same places was a dream come true. I loved wandering the streets and towns mentioned in the books. But having made new friends and having their company also helped to make it a special trip.
2. What was the most interresting thing you learned when the boys returned?
Apart from the incidents mentioned above, I think the fact that T and S have booked the chapel on Corfu where they stayed for their wedding next year. The boys don't know if they are invited but A told me its definitely booked- hes not sure of the date!
I await further information on that- as my mum says a year is a long time! T has also told the boys they won't take them away again for 3 weeks as its far too long with 5 of them!
Well these is certainly an epistle of length so time to go do some jobs and fill in an application form
Jante

Hi J,
What a nice post. It helps my overall big picture when you explain things this well. Thanks.

......... The overall impression in Austria is of going back at least half a centuary to a different way of life.

Ah, that would be refreshing. Slower too? Life around here goes way too fast.
Quiet evenings, talks with friends, pretty scenery. Makes me relax just to think about it. Good for you.

............making new friends helped make the holiday- it was just so good to have people to share the new experiences with. Also it showed me how much I had changed- I was the one who reached out to them and suggested we go round together. They were very pleased I did but would have been too shy to do so themselves.

Wow, and I say again, good for you. You gave them a great gift, and perhaps they will be willing to try it themselves next time. If I think back, I can see steady progress, but I mostly think of you as you are now, and I have a great respect for you, and your ability.

Not so long ago I would have been shy and scared that no one could possibly want to spend time with me. My confidence has grown along with my enjoyment of life.

I was shocked to read this part. I have never, ever thought you would believe no one wanted to spend time with you. It's a shame that T's actions could do that to you, but I am glad it has a happy ending. You SHOULD have confidence, lots and lots of it. While I realize you are not perfect, and that you do have faults (and I could make a long list of my own,) I can see the strengths, and the kindness, and the care and love you have also. I hope you never worry about that again, and I don't believe you should worry about it.

This Christmas decision won't be an easy one. I realize you already know that, but it would be difficult for me also. I think the boys feelings need to be taken into account. More than anything, I see Christmas as a childrens holiday. When my W and I were married, we discussed travel on Christmas, and decided that we would visit family on other days, but that time of year we would stay home and let the children enjoy themselves as THEY wanted to. Looking back, I believe it has been good for them to have consistancy and mormalcy at this important time of year. I think you do well to talk about it and think about it before you come to a decision.

I think you have been very kind to T where the boys are concerned, but yes, I do think sometimes it is at their expense. Now, that sounds kind of harsh, and it's not meant to be.

My thoughts are that he is the one that left, he could have stayed, and kept his family about him at Christmas time, but he chose to leave. So, if he doesn't get to be with the boys, whose fault is that?

I could have said that more kindly, but I think I'll let it stand as is.

Anyway, you are going about it in what I think is the best way, and I am sure you will take all requests into account before you make a decision. I am impressed that he called to work out the schedule, because at one time he wouldn't hardly even talk to you about it when you wanted to schedule it. I wonder if he is doing it because S wants it done? Don't laugh, I was just wondering.

............In D's case he got so wound up in turn with T for the telling off he was getting D answered back and when T continued to go on at him D threw a cup of apple juice at him. I know I shouldn't smile but I did - T hasn't had to deal with D's teenage tantrums before.

I smiled too, is that a sin?
It was all I could do to keep from laughing out loud.
By the way T, welcome to real life with teenagers.

It sounds like normal mixed family problems, ones that children should never have to deal with in almost all cases.

I know you will talk to the boys about it, and I think they will try to do better too. I laughed about the three weeks. What would S do if you told them you were going away for a year and they got to take care of the boys while you were gone? Would she think that was bad form?

Ok, I'll try and get back on track.

T in turn hit D for it and then they walked off talking so A doesn't know what happened ( needless to say I got this story from A!) D's only comment to me on it was he hated the little ones and didn't ever want to go on holiday with them again!!

Once at an interview with our clergy, I was aked how my relationship with my family was going. I said that I had wanted to kill my children a time or two, but that I had never killed any of them. I got a laugh, and this comment - "You sound about normal, I expect improvement, but you sound about normal."

So, Corfu wasn't all the fun they thought it would be. I bet they do have some good stories.

Actually, I think A should have told T he wasn't being a dad to C, so A had to. Who does T think cares for C when you are running erands. I think T ought to hear it. Not in a disrespectful way, but he ought to hear it. Does he think visits every other week, or however often it is now takes care of things? Can you detect the irritation in my voice?

Interresting answers - Now I wonder what books you read that featured Austria. Thank you for the reply, I hope it doesn't bother you that I ask.

Sometimes I ask so that I might get a better feel for what you are thinking, and sometimes I am curious. This was both. You have really come a long way. You are more at peace. The things that worry you now are different than two years ago. I would say you are probably ahead of me, and I probably ought to take lessons from you.

Your faith has grown, you are stronger, less afraid, sure of yourself, and you are doing things you want to do, even though life is not perfect, and you still have some doubts. Good job.


Well these is certainly an epistle of length so time to go do some jobs and fill in an application form.

I didn't mean to keep you so long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hope you got everything done. I have resigned myself to never getting caught up on everything, I hope I get the most important things done.

I hope you got in lots of laughter on your trip, it seems to help.

Was it hard to come home, or were you glad?

SS

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

hI SS

Just a quick note this time
T rang me about the schedule because I asked him to. As he intends to spend one w/e a month here as per our arrangement last year I need to know in advance so I can make my own plans. He was getting close to the first w/e visit in Sept without contacting me! So not much changes there!
The school books I read as a child- and now have the complete collection of are called the Chalet school Books, they run to 61 books and the first 18 are based in the part of Austria I visited. The books have a strong underlying christian theme and I still enjoy them now in my 40'S! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
I didn't find it hard to return home- I was ready. Perhaps that had something to do with not having seen the children for 3 weeks!
I am considering raising the christmas issue before the boys next see T- even though I'd told him to tell them himself. Then if they do strongly disagree I can tell him they are staying home with me after all. Still not really sure of what is the right way to go about all this.
On a lighter note I had a date on thursday evening. It was with a gentleman I met through a christian dating agency on line, who lives about 12 miles away. His cousin goes to my church and she is thrilled that we have started seeing each other. Early days but we are going to meet again this week.
well perhaps not such a short note <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Jante

Hi J !!

We had a good weekend, Drove 500 miles and I didn't go to sleep once while I was driving. (But then, I never do.)

T rang me about the schedule because I asked him to.

LOL, I wondered. I was hoping he had finally "got it" and was doing better with that.

As he intends to spend one w/e a month here as per our arrangement last year I need to know in advance so I can make my own plans. He was getting close to the first w/e visit in Sept without contacting me! So not much changes there!

So he still comes to your home, and you do other things. I wonder what S thinks of that? I wonder what you think? I know why you do it, but I wonder if it is frustrating sometimes.

I also wonder why S is single? Her poor children get to have the same experiances as your sons. What a world we live in.


The school books I read as a child- and now have the complete collection of are called the Chalet school Books, they run to 61 books and the first 18 are based in the part of Austria I visited. The books have a strong underlying christian theme and I still enjoy them now in my 40'S!

Ok, that makes sense. As A child, I read "Uncle Aurthurs Bedtime Stories." by Aurthur S Maxwll. He grew up in England, and wrote most of the stories about things that happened there. They have a strong christian theme, but there are only 5 of them. I read all of them to all the children, and I still love to read them. Later he (MR Maxwell) lived in the US, and finished raising his family here. I will have to see if I can find any of your books here in the used book stores. They sound interresting. I love books, can you tell?

I especially like books that are good for children to read, that teach good lessons, and that have happy endings. I see from my web search, that your books are the kind I would like for my own girls to read.


I didn't find it hard to return home- I was ready. Perhaps that had something to do with not having seen the children for 3 weeks!

Travel is fun, but there is nothing like sleeping in your own bed after being gone for a while. I bet the boys were glad to see you too. Fun and extitement are great, but there is no place like home.

I am considering raising the christmas issue before the boys next see T- even though I'd told him to tell them himself. Then if they do strongly disagree I can tell him they are staying home with me after all. Still not really sure of what is the right way to go about all this.

You know how to find out. I expect you will pray and think on it, and I trust you will do the right thing.

I should have probably not related my feelings so strongly, but I am not too fond of T these days. I hope for the best for him, but I don't have a great deal of respect for him. I believe where he was the one that left his family, he can spend the time alone, not you.

On a lighter note I had a date on thursday evening. It was with a gentleman I met through a christian dating agency on line, who lives about 12 miles away. His cousin goes to my church and she is thrilled that we have started seeing each other. Early days but we are going to meet again this week.

A lighter note - Ah - do you see dating as being lighter? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You would have to see the smile on my face, and hear the tease in my voice to get the full impact of this one.

Oh no, I won't gloss over this one, and not comment. I still think some man will be really lucky if you decide he is the right one. I expect them to measure up though. They better be top notch if they are going to date you.

I suppose if you are going again with him, it means that the first one was .........at least it wasn't all bad. Must have been some good.

We'll wait to hear about the next one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

well perhaps not such a short note

Just right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Not much has changed with S. He is good most days, but we pay close attention to him, and the things he does. He knows we love him, and he does spend a lot of time helping other people. I have to think that last part is good.

J, I am glad you continue to fill your life with good things. It sounds mostly happy, don't let the hard parts get to you on bad days. We still pray for all of you, remember that we care.

SS

Hi SS
So he still comes to your home, and you do other things. I wonder what S thinks of that? I wonder what you think? I know why you do it, but I wonder if it is frustrating sometimes.
Not sure what Sarah thinks- from little things hes said I guess shes ok with it as long as I'm not at home. I do find it an irritation sometimes having to find somewhere to go- this weekend for example I haven't got round to planning anything which is a pain- but I can always go to my sister if I don't sort anything else out
S's husband left her when she was pregnant with child no 2 and then only started seeing the children when they were 3 and 4. He is remarried
and T has met him.
I especially like books that are good for children to read, that teach good lessons, and that have happy endings. I see from my web search, that your books are the kind I would like for my own girls to read.
I would say so - have always enjoyed them and wished I had a child to share them with. Now I've been to Austria, I'd like to visit Guernsey, Herefiordshie and Switzerland where the later stories are based. When I scan my photos in I'll send you a couple to see.
As for christmas, while discussing his borthday with C he asked me what was happening at christmas so I told hiom what his dad wanted and asked how he felt. He said that he would prefer to stay at home but would go idf his dad insisted. I then called the other 2 in and asked them. Both were adament they wanted to stay at home, so I have promised them that they can and I will tell their dad on Saturday.

As for the dating I really enjoyed this gentlemans company- his name is geoff, and he seemed to appreciate mine. Now I'm waiting for an email to confirm plans to meet Thursday this week. I am asking myself what I want/expect in a relationship and being careful not to rush in to something to have 'someone' but at the same time not being frightened of having a relationship either.
Glad things are going ok with S I guess we always hope for better things
Jante

Well Teenage angst hits in earnest.
D will sit GCSE's next summer. He is a bright lad who did really well lower down the school and who's CAT score implies he should get very good grades at GCSE.
The problem with his dad, and the move of school has led to a number of problems which i've had to deal with over last couple of years.
Today he's come home from school mid morning because
a) He's split up with his girlfriend- this was his first girlfriend!
b) He can't cope with the course work element of the curiculum.
I've reassured him its normal to be upset when a relationship breaks up but he will feel better eventually . Also told him that hes not the only boy to struggle with course work and that he needs to let me and school help him more. I then contacted school to let them know the situation, get his absence authorised and to set up meetings with 2 of his tutors for tomorrow!
Have also talked to D about what else would help him through this next 9 months and he has asked not to go to his dads. We have agreed he will stick with the planned visits unitl Decmber but then will be allowed to stay at home when the others go away. I'm hoping T will agree to this without 'bullying' D over it. D is feeling very stressed at the moment and as the exams draw nearer this will only increase.Oh for the days when they were babies and life was so much easier!!!!!

Jante <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi J,

Thanks for the info on the books, I never dreamed I would get such helpful information from someone I met on the internet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

W says if you need something to do on Saturday (while T's there), come by and she will take you shopping. I have to go to a Boy Scout Adult leader training, so I won't be here.

You seem to do so well now when things happen with the boys. It's almost like 2nd nature to take care of it. I suppose it's not "almost," it is habbit, you do really well.

This week, D, next week, S. We take turns, don't we.

We encouraged our children not to date until they turn 16. It seems like they are so much more emotionally ready then. We also encourage them to group date, not be by them selves (only one boy, and only one girl) until they are even older. We want them to get the social skills without the pain that goes with getting attached, and breaking up at an early age.

They watch others do it, and I think they are glad we put these kind of rules on them. Four of our eight are married, and they say the "16" rule was a good one, it kept them out of trouble they say.

BTW, I am not trying to tell you what is best, just relating what we do, for your information. The early dating years can be tough.

S hasn't dated much. I think he wants to be like me. I spent my teen years going on camping trips with my friends. I had a motorcycle, and we would go almost every weekend we didn't have to work. There are hundards of miles of back roads here with no people or restrictions of any kind. In some places, the west is still very wild. So, I had three dates total for my last three years in high school. I was shy too, and it was hard for me to talk to girls. You can tell I am still shy, can't you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

S has had three or four dates, but has spent most of the time doing things with his best male friends. His very best friend just left for a church mission to Mexico, and will be gone for 2 years. Spencer hopes to go next spring after his 19th birthday - don't know where yet. Our oldest son went to South Africa, the 2nd son to central america. It has been a good experiance for them.

Anyway, we didn't have much problem with S and girls. He says someday he will be interrested, but for now, they are as much trouble as they are worth. Had I known then what I know now, I may have been interrested much sooner, but it turned out well for me. I suspect he will be fine.

You know we pray for you, and for the boys, and we will continue. I hope you feel the strength of the Lord helping you. I have said this before, but I know he makes assignments, and that you will have help. There are many who have gone on, and they need something to do, they will watch over your family.

Now, I shouldn't ask, but can we get just a little report on Thursday night? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS

Later edit - I forgot to tell you that I think your post to believer was really good. I was going to post earlier today, but I read yours, and many of the other very supportive posts and I figured you had it covered well, so I left it until later.

<small>[ September 18, 2004, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi
Well after telling me they wanted to stay at home for christmas- when their dad mentioned it they agreed to go with him. As I wasn't there at the time when I cam to mention it he said that they were happy- made me look like a fool. Anyway it seems that instead of them going from Thursday to monday its now going to be Friday to Sunday/Monday. I must admit I got upset with him- and pointed out that I was now having to spend Christmas without MY family , and I didn't have a replacement family like he did while he got to do what he wanted when ever he wanted.I said I was the one who was still apying the price 4 years after his choices . His response was- 'there'xss nothing I can say to that' and got up and left! Not good I know but I was feeling pretty low.
I had gone for a job last week told by the Trustees to apply as I was a very strong candidate then got a letter telling me I hadn't even got an interview. Sorry just having a bad few days- first for ages!
Had a second date with the gentleman from thursday yesterday- and realised that its not going to lead to anything so I won't be seeing him again. Its hard to explain but what ever chemistry needs to be there isn't!
So not the best of weekedns but nec#ver mind tomorrow is another day and I'm off to church in a little while and that always helps.
Jante

Hi Jante,
This post (of yours) is kind of sad. I read it earlier, and I have been thinking about it.

Well after telling me they wanted to stay at home for christmas- when their dad mentioned it they agreed to go with him. As I wasn't there at the time when I cam to mention it he said that they were happy- made me look like a fool.

At least you only looked like one, and you are really not a fool. I can think of someone else that has been really foolish - and looks it too.

I think this happens to all of us at times, wether we are married, or not married.

Anyway it seems that instead of them going from Thursday to monday its now going to be Friday to Sunday/Monday. I must admit I got upset with him- and pointed out that I was now having to spend Christmas without MY family , and I didn't have a replacement family like he did while he got to do what he wanted when ever he wanted. I said I was the one who was still apying the price 4 years after his choices.

Does it matter which days? All of them seem bad to me. My tendancy is to tease people much of the time, but I feel for you, and I wish things were different. (and I won't tease you about this - at least not yet.)
I can't see it getting better in the near future, because T seems to do things much the same now as he did when you began to come to MB.


His response was- 'there's nothing I can say to that' and got up and left! Not good I know but I was feeling pretty low.

I made the remark about teasing for a reason. The day will come when you will look back, realize you did as well as you could, and you will laugh about some of your fears, and your anger. Just for the record, I would be angry too, and I often think you do a better job than I could do.

It's times like these (that you relate above) that sometimes get me to thinking about the way our lives work.

You have a wonderful trip to Austria, meet new people, and yet, every day life continues to have bumps and leaves bruises and scars. It usually continues like this until our death, as you can see from watching your mum.

I wondered today who you talk to when you are feeling hurt. I am thinking I hope you can talk to your sisters, though I seem to remember you saying they have troubles of their own, and you don't speak to them very often about these kinds of things. I am not sure if you continue to spend time with your DB'ing friends, but I hope so, and I hope it is good emotionally for you.

Life is indeed difficult. It can be less difficult when we have someone to share it with. I keep praying for you to find that person that will treat you like a W ought to be treated. I usually include a request for that person to be a spiritial person as well, so that you have that element and blessing in your home as well. I realize you are a spiritial person, but two make it easier than one by them selves.

I had gone for a job last week told by the Trustees to apply as I was a very strong candidate then got a letter telling me I hadn't even got an interview. Sorry just having a bad few days- first for ages!

I don't understand - thought you would have something by now, but keep praying for you.
Hope you are not too discouraged yet.

Had a second date with the gentleman from thursday yesterday- and realised that its not going to lead to anything so I won't be seeing him again. Its hard to explain but what ever chemistry needs to be there isn't!

You can tell already?
It's been a long time since I dated, I am trying to remember what I thought and felt as things progressed. I was what the poets's call a "romantic". I had all these ideas about living happily ever after. I suppose there is a lot of happiness, but I wasn't prepared for the hard parts.

I knew my W for 2 1/2 years before we married, but I lived out of the country for two years of it, and we wrote letters for that time, and didn't see each other. When I finally asked her to marry me, she told me no!!

Said she had to many things to do first. I asked her to please pray about it before she gave me a final no, and she came back the next day and said yes.
That's one of the reasons I believe in prayer, I got the same answer she did. She was in tears, and kept saying "but I don't want to get married."

She seems to be happier about it now.

Anyway, I keep thinking and hoping and praying that you find someone that fills all your needs in the ways that will help you have a very happy life.


So not the best of weekedns but never mind tomorrow is another day and I'm off to church in a little while and that always helps.

It really does, doesn't it. Also I hope you can find someone that will be a partner to help you reach the spiritial goals you have for all four of you. I KNOW that part is hard sometimes !! I don't think our first 3 boys were any easier than S is.

By now your feelings of the weekend are probably long over with, and you may feel really good today. Just remember when you get into one of the bad days that people far over the sea care about you, and pray for you. I hope you never really feel alone, because you don't need to.

SS

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

HI SS
Thanks for your encouraging message. Also thanks for the birthday email.
I have been off line for a week due to a phone fault so only got to read your message this morning. The boys have since been to see their dad but no mention was made of christmas. I paid a brief visit to his parents as I was passing their road yesterday and while chatting they mentioned they had heard from T. He had asked if he could take the boys to visit on the Monday after christmas so it would appear he still plans for the boys to go from Friday to Monday.
Before the boys left on friday to visit T I had both D and A come to me separately and insist they weren't going to go to see him this weekend. With patience I managed to persuade them- but only after agreeing in D's case that he doesn't have to go next w/e that is planned. I cope with all this but feel frazzled by it at times.
The boys haven't got me anything for my birthday- they said that they couldn't because they had been at their dads at the w/e!! I didn't ask- they were the ones who said it to me this morning as I opened my other cards.
A bit of me is hurt that he can no longer be bothered to take them to get me something but part of me is resigned to this way of life.
Yesterday was a lovely day for me as I was priveledged to attend the wedding of a friend of mine who has been through much the same as me. She has met a lovely christian man and yesterday was their 2nd church blessing for their union!
It brought home to me again just what vows we take as we marry- and got me thinking again!
I know I should have let go completely by now but somewhere buried in me is this desire to still see my marriage rebuilt- I keep praying about it and asking God to help me let go- but it keeps coming back to a strong feeling that I should continue to pray for T. On the other hand I also am praying strongly for a strong christian man as my partner in life, someone who is serving God to be a helpmeet to. As I prayed yesterday and as often happens T was in my mind I felt God say "A broken vessel I can use"!
So will continue to ask God to make me willing to be what ever HE wants
Jante

You have expressed some very interresting thoughts. Once I said I felt you would reconcile. I never understood why T wouldn't come around.

Still thinking about this................

SS

Hi J, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I paid a brief visit to his parents as I was passing their road yesterday and while chatting they mentioned they had heard from T.

How are his parents? I keep seeing FIL in my head, and I wonder how he is doing.

He had asked if he could take the boys to visit on the Monday after christmas so it would appear he still plans for the boys to go from Friday to Monday.

What do the boys say about this proposed visit? It is hard to say no to a father sometimes, perhaps they just said yes to avoid conflict.

At this point, I don't think I would try to talk them out of it, but if they express regret about telling him they will go, you can let them know that they have the right to change their minds about it, and stay home if they want.

I know you realize I am just stating my opinin - I almost always have one. I understand you will do what you feel is best.

Before the boys left on friday to visit T I had both D and A come to me separately and insist they weren't going to go to see him this weekend. With patience I managed to persuade them- but only after agreeing in D's case that he doesn't have to go next w/e that is planned. I cope with all this but feel frazzled by it at times.

He left their world by choice, and they know it. I think part of their problem is that they feel rejection, and this is their response to those feelings.

"Dad, if you don't love us enough to stay with us, we don't want to visit you either."

I don't know if they would voice this out loud, or if they even understand it, but I would guess this is part of the problem.

Also, at this age, their friends are a big part of their world, and going to see Dad takes their time away from the what they would do with those friends. You already know these things, I suspect none of my thoughts are new to you.

The boys haven't got me anything for my birthday- they said that they couldn't because they had been at their dads at the w/e!! I didn't ask- they were the ones who said it to me this morning as I opened my other cards.
A bit of me is hurt that he can no longer be bothered to take them to get me something but part of me is resigned to this way of life.

I was supprised he helped them as long as he did. If someone can leave his family as T did, the desire to remember events like birthdays has to be really low on their "to do" list. I wouldn't expect the boys to remember on their own, two out of 4 of my married children remembered my B day last week, and the younger ones have a harder time than the older ones. I remember yours because mine is a few days before it. Is that cheating?


I do think you are right to become resigned to it - Wish I knew what to say, or how to help.

I got to thinking, and I hope I don't sent the same thing from year to year. If I did, remember that I am older than you are, and my memory may be failing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yesterday was a lovely day for me as I was priveledged to attend the wedding of a friend of mine who has been through much the same as me. She has met a lovely christian man and yesterday was their 2nd church blessing for their union!

I am glad it was a happy event for you. Sometimes (at weddings) I see bitterness in those who no longer have their companion with them. I am so glad you can see good in so many places.

It brought home to me again just what vows we take as we marry- and got me thinking again!

I love going to weddings for that same reason. It gets me to thinking also. God accepts our vows, and he keeps track of them. From a reading of the bible, I can see he releases us from them in case of adultry. I do think they are much more important than most of us mortals are willing to admit. I believe the vows we make at marriage tie with our promises to God as the most important promises we make here on earth. In fact, I don't believe we could separate them as one being more important than the other. Oh, my opinion is coming out again, I should go on.

I know I should have let go completely by now but somewhere buried in me is this desire to still see my marriage rebuilt- I keep praying about it and asking God to help me let go- but it keeps coming back to a strong feeling that I should continue to pray for T.

We do not know, but HE knows. It is good to follow those kinds of feelings. Early on, I kept feeling like you would reconcile, and I never did understand why it didn't happen. I do know that God loves T, and wishes for him to repent. I knonw that miracles still happen in the world, I know it could happen.


On the other hand I also am praying strongly for a strong christian man as my partner in life, someone who is serving God to be a helpmeet to. As I prayed yesterday and as often happens T was in my mind I felt God say "A broken vessel I can use"!

I am glad you have these feelings. It is a help to get guidence, and direction from someone that knows the past, present, and future as only God can know it. One of the things I have prayed for you (for over two years now) is that you will know what to do.

So will continue to ask God to make me willing to be what ever HE wants

Last night, I couldn't sleep, so I got up, and went into another room and prayed for many on MB. I prayed for you, and for each of your sons. I prayed for your employment, for your happiness, for you to find someone to share with (even T, if that would work.) I prayed that you may know what to do, and how to find the happiness you seek as you continue to do the best you can.

It is wonderful that we have a source of help that is always there, that loves us, and that really CAN HELP US.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I can see you continue to grow. I wonder what espoir would say if she read your last post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Actually, I don't think it would bother her. At least you are protected from most of the emotional abuse now, I tend to think the way this is happening is the best way it can, considering that T left and wouldn't come back.

Here's my question for today:

Do you smile enough these days? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
SS

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Not trying to crash the party here....just thought I'd say howdy to SS while I was thinking about it.

Boy, just flipping through this thread feels like eavesdropping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HI
High road you are very welcome and I would welcome comments from any other members but over the two years I have posted here its usually been SS who has replied- I would dearly love other imput and at time SS has prompted other people to also add comments.

To further add to what has been happening -
yet another sunday lunch where the boys raised the subject of christmas and insisted they wouldn't go to spend christmas day at their dads- and when asked why I was told
"Mum it upsets me to think of the other two getting loads of presents, they are really spoilt, and remembering that when we were their age we only got a few!" They did only get a few as I never had much mony when they were littlw and so some christmas's even had to use a small amount of each childs money from relatives to help feed us over christmas." Anyway I have decided that they shall spend christmas day with me, then I'll take them to their dads for Boxing day, he has already arranged to visit his parents with them on the monday and I am to collect them from there. I have emailed their dad with this ionformation and got a message back saying hes not at all happy with me 'decision' or with the fact ge thinks I am implying only I am interested in making a decision so as not to upset the children.
I though life should get easier after the divorce was final but I still find my self emotionally torn!

SS just reread and realised I'd had a long reply from you which I hadn't read! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes I smile a lot of the time and am usually at peace and content. Had the turmoil over this christmas issue as I recounted above, and also still seeking God as to my own future. Questions drop into my mind about work and serving God- as you know I feel drawn to Family Support work, but nothing is happening when I apply, but also all my conscious life I have wanted to serve God and in a more concrete way then 'just' in chuch stewarding etc. I am beginning to wonder if God is wanting me to do more in the way of fulltime service for Him alongside this desire to worek with families. Its all a bit vague at the moment but have arranged to chat soon with my minister.
I'm preparing to lead this weeks Home group Bible study which is a priveledge
Jante

Still applying for jobs and so far without success

Jante

<small>[ October 04, 2004, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: jante ]</small>

bump

Hi J,

I was thinking this morning about how, and why I do things. I realized that I can't just come by and say "HI" and leave - I have to beileve that what I say can help, and is helping or I tend to stay away.

Difficult days at work the last few days. I did two 15 hour days, and I didn't post much. Computer problems that resulted in substantial upgrades. We are through the worst of them, but one system still has a few glitches, and I have it shut off now, wondering what to do with it.

I see you are thinking about your service to God, and wondering where it should go. Remember what he said about "in as much as you have done it to one of the least of these my brethern, you have done it unto me." I think you help a lot more people than you talk about, and your sons are the most important of all. Don't think your work is of less value than others work. Mothers are not always high profile, but if all the mothers in the world would do a good job, take proper care of their children, and teach them what is right, I suspect many of the worlds problems would be gone in one generation.

I can't speak for God, but I think a lot of good is going on at your house these days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You haven't said much about the boys lately. How is D doing in school?

Not much to report on this end. S hasn't caused any problems lately. His best friend went on a church mission to Mexico. He has made a new friend that is struggeling, and he goes every week to pick him up for church. I heard him talk to him last night on the telephone, and he went to pick him up for a youth activity. I have learned that praising him for the good he does helps more than being angry with him when he disapoints us. That's why I am SS. I still have alot to learn.

There is always a lot more I could ask you. I think sometimes about the things you don't say, the feelings you don't talk about - I try to pray for you about those things as well...........along with what you do discuss.

Maybe I will try an easy question today.
I trust your mum is well?

SS

Later edit:
I also wonder a lot about what you can talk to your Mum about. Now that things are more setteled, are you able to speak to her about her life, and what her feelings were when she was going through the turmoil that you have been through? Has she spoken to you ......... encouraged you, and told you that you will make it, just like she did? As I said, I wonder about a lot of things.
I would encourage you to talk to her. I think it woudl be good for BOTH of you.

<small>[ October 08, 2004, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS

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SS

Later edit:
I also wonder a lot about what you can talk to your Mum about. Now that things are more setteled, are you able to speak to her about her life, and what her feelings were when she was going through the turmoil that you have been through? Has she spoken to you ......... encouraged you, and told you that you will make it, just like she did? As I said, I wonder about a lot of things.
I would encourage you to talk to her. I think it woudl be good for BOTH of you.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yes SS my mum and I have talked a lot about what both of us have been through , the similarities and the difficulties, her feelings when she went through it and how she has coped and moved on. She has been a tower of strength through all this.
I'm still waiting for the phone call T said he wanted to have with me about christmas. But as he didn't call when he said he would, and when I sent a text he said he'd call the next evening and didn't I've now left it. The boys are with me for christmas and if he wants to discuss it the balls in his court.
I led house group on Wed. evening- the Rector was planning to be present but had already asked me to prepare the Bible study. On the evening he was ill and so I was left to do it on my own. The study went really well I believe and I trust others were blessed by it. It just confims my desire to serve God more fully. I do accept that raising my boys is a lage part of my sevice to God but I believe there is more I can do.

I'm so thrilled to hear how S is reaching out to share the goodness of God with his friend. Its that sort of thing which makes parenting so wothwhile.
I have another application form in for a job as a Family Support worker- just keep praying and sending in the applications.

Jante