ncwalker: betrayedinjersey said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I truly believe you'll both get through this.
It's tough, through all the words and struggles you have, all this really boils down to is the one thing ALL BS have in common. The fact that WE are the ones betrayed, had our hearts ripped out, made the decision through all this agony to forgive and rebuild the marriage, and it's kind of like a hurry up and wait deal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is so right about the hurry up and wait. It's tough to see out of the valleys. You sound better today/last night. That's good. Our prayers are with you two.

RH

KiwiJ,

Your comment made me think a bit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can you just let go of the feelings of anger, betrayal and hurt? Because you are asking Jenny to just let go of all her feelings because they hurt you.

He said, no, I can't just let those feelings go.

She said, Jenny has to work through her feelings as well. She can't just drop them any more than you can.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would ask – does being in pain preclude you from doing an act of kindness towards another? At what point do your emotions override your will? IS there a point?

I mean, if I am “really” angry at someone, I may not choose to bless them. But if I am “kind of” angry at someone, could I summon the will to bless them? Or do I have to be not angry at all?

And if the answer is you COULD bless them when you are “kind of” angry through a conscious choice, then why NOT when you are really angry? What is different other than the LEVEL of anger?

This could be applied to any emotion.

Or is it a positive/negative thing? If I am having a POSITIVE feeling towards someone, I can express a POSITIVE act and vis a vis.

I have thought on this, and I still don’t see why we can’t “rise up” as it were, and do a good deed regardless of our emotional state. If we can’t do that, I would say we would have anarchy. Well. Maybe not THAT bad. But if we gave in to our feelings all the time, I don’t think we would make much progress.

NCWalker

BetrayedinNewJersey said,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">all this really boils down to is the one thing ALL BS have in common. The fact that WE are the ones betrayed, had our hearts ripped out, made the decision through all this agony to forgive and rebuild the marriage, and it's kind of like a hurry up and wait deal.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remembered this from another thread called "Tired of FWW rejection" that I thought was worth remembering:

FinallyLearning said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i acknowledge, it is NOT FAIR. you were betrayed and now this!!!! but let me remind you, there is more to the vows of marriage than staying faithful. did you break the vow of loving and cherising her??? right or wrong, i know i felt betrayed when he choose to become distant in our marriage and not work on anything
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Julie

Onlywords,

I understand what you are hinting at. My vows were the "love, honor, and obey" type. I have done a reasonable job of keeping my marriage vows. I acknowledge what I have NOT done in my marriage AND take responsibility for it. Both to RAP and our MC. And I am still working on improving.

But RAP was not perfect towards me, either. So 6 mos ago (before A) we were neck and neck about how poorly we were treating each other. If anything, I was ahead. Probably going to get blasted for saying that, but I think I was. See the difference below.

Here is the difference. I still loved her with all my heart. Did not walk it out perfectly, but still loved her. I was striving to do better and was really ready to give this my best after I returned from overseas.

Since I returned, she has done and said things that now lead me to believe she has been essentially "lying" about the state of our marriage for at least 2 years. It feels like she has used my trusting nature against me.

Here is why I was so torqued off the other day. We had planned a trip to my dad's for 4th of J week. Slightly before leaving for the trip, she said she wanted to stay to work on things in the house.

I was to take the kids, be gone for 8 days, and leave her in the neighborhood where the OM lives. Leave her there alone. Last PA was less than 1 month ago. That is a BIG NO GO regarding NC.

I provided numerous options and alternate solutions. Tried to POJA. None of which were good enough for her. That is when her anger started. She emotionally brow-beat me to the point that I caved and I am now typing on my dad's PC while she is home alone. Once she started threatening me with "I'm not going to let YOU ruin our sons vacation" I threw in the towel and got really pissed off. I worked through that venting, and now I am just stoic. I have to defend my heart and let it heal at this point.

Has she seen OM while I've been gone? Or contacted him? I am probably 80% certain she has. Will she tell me? Maybe. Just another knife to the heart.

What should I have done? Physically threw her in our car and dragged her down? Stayed and put up with her anger over how I wrecked my sons vaction after what we have been putting them through? What about a wife submitting to her husband? (Believe me, I DO FULLY UNDERSTAND that word "submit" in the Christian context). She has NEVER, no maybe not never, SELDOM submitted to my will when I felt we were about to do something unwise. She gets that from her mother. If it is not the way she wants it to go, it frankly sucks and has no redeeming value. I am in no way saying I haven't made some unwise choices. I have. I would say, if she wanted me to be a husband, she could have treated me more like one. Probably just me hurting right now, and if I think hard I can see where she did. Will do that before I go to bed tonight, maybe make a list. Just doesn't feel like it right now.

I have left her a letter today, and my wedding ring. I can no longer let her have my heart. I have given it to her fully our whole marriage. NOT saying I have been the perfect husband, but my heart has truly belonged to her.

She lost a lot of ground with me over her choices and words regarding our last decision. I am going to care for her, support her, for a while longer. I can no longer afford to give her free access to my heart. She has hurt it too many times in this. Selfishly. It is now negatively affecting my livelihood and my 3DS. I am now forced into protect the family mode.

Maybe the separation will help us. She says she needed a break from the tension. Things have been tense, but not nearly as bad as what I have seen others here going through. Don't think the separation WILL help. I really wonder how long it took for her to contact the OM after I left. I am guessing at that, but I have been burned too many times when I honored her honesty to believe she didn't.

I kept calling her on the drive down. There was a long period she did not answer. She said she was "in the shower." It really hurt when she did not answer and made me nervous. I told her I would be worrying the whole time because she did not come with. She didn't care, her feelings were more important. Selfish again.

She has spoken to me a little while ago and said she SHOULD have come down. She has been trying to get a priceline ticket, but we really don't have the money. Did she get her "fix" and is now ready to join her FAMILY? I don't know and probably never will. She told me the other day that she never should have said anything about the A. That honesty was NOT the best policy. I would never even consider SAYING words like that, it is so important to me. She said it in the context that it was wrong to hurt me and would have been better if I did not know. I don't know if I can be yoked to someone like that. I am very trusting. Too trusting. She could and has used that against me to knife my heart. I can't change being trusting too much, but I can not allow her in my heart anymore.

This trip is really the only BIG thing I asked for since I have been home. The only repurcussion for her actions she has had to face. That and no longer going to the gym where the OM trains. I am not going to treat her as some poor brainwashed person who has to be deprogrammed. She was given several opportunities to CHOOSE to come and she did not. Whatever she chose, it was NOT me.

Do you know when an alcoholic gets off the bottle? When he WANTS to. There is no magic. It is not easy, but it IS a CHOICE. They make this choice when their marriage, family, or job is in jeapordy.

The problem in my mind right now with Plan A is that there is no sense of urgency placed on the addict.

This was the last time I'll give her the opportunity to hurt me like that again. I plan on supporting her through this, but I cannot let her close anymore. She has hurt me too much. Too many times. Her turn to walk.

NCWalker

ncwalker -

Gosh, sorry to hear the latest. I thought she was going with you, and that probably would have been the best choice.

I hope you will enjoy your time away the best you can. Maybe you at least can relax and get some perspective. But I know you will be worried.

nc-

I am so sorry to hear this, I was hoping that she would have gone with you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

NCWalker,
I'm so sorry....my post wasn't intended for you....I could tell by the things you have written that you DO understand it takes two, and that you ARE doing your best. I know that when Recovering H LB'd, I was angry, but at the same time I played fair....after all, if I was allowed to screw up from time to time, then i had to make the same allowance for him.
I'm sorry RAP didn't go with you. I would not have trusted myself to be left alone like that. To tell you the truth, I still don't, but I do believe I at least have the inner strength now to resist contact with OM. In the beginning, it didn't seem fair to me to be watched closely and made to account for my days, but I figured I brought that on myself and had to endure. I didn't like being treated like a child (that's how it felt) but that's what it took. I also know for some, that would just backfire.
I guess there comes a point when you have no choice but to protect yourself. I keep hearing RAP SAY she wants to work it out with you. I have a feeling there is more behind her fog than just the OM, and please don't take that to mean it must be YOU....I don't think that at all. I mean something in herself...and I hate saying that because I don't want it to sound like she's defective, either.
I know that some of what made me vulnerable to an affair was not having needs met by husband. But I also believe that some of my vulnerability came from low self-esteem. My husband was no longer raising that self-esteem, then along came OM and I let him do that. After the affair ended, I could see that I should not depend on someone else to boost my self-esteem, and so part of why I wanted to keep my distance from my husband was the part of me that didn't want to rely on him or anyone else anymore for feeling good about myself. But it IS a struggle, and since it had been a very long time since my husband was able to boost it, I kept feeling drawn to OM because that is where I was getting my self-esteem last.
Unfortunately, understanding a problem doesn't always lead to a solution. It takes guts, innder strength, resolve, grit, and a willingness to suffer through....for whatever reason, RAP isn't able to find that yet.
I do believe she is trying to find her own sense of self-worth, but she doesn't want to get it from either you or OM....the problem is he was the last place she found it.
I know I'm not helping. It's one thing to spell out a problem, but unless you have a suggestion for a solution, what good is it? I don't have any ideas on what to do. But then each situation is unique, so you kinda have to go on trial and error.
I'm sorry I'm not more help.

Julie

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

ncwalker -

RAP sounds a lot like my WH. He has a hole in this heart, that just never could be filled. He is nice looking, and very friendly, and a good man, but has very low self-esteem due to his terrible childhood.

I don't think he will ever be happy. It is very sad.

I hope you are enjoying this time with your father, and your children. I know it is hard, not knowing what is going on with RAP.

We all care about her and will pray for her, that God will put a hedge of protection around her.

Dear NCwalker,

I hope you don’t mind me posting to? I am concerned for RAP, and have posted her on the other thread ‘moving forward’.

She was replying to my posts last night and encouraging me to hang in there, and I do believe she gave some positive feedback for you (ie she knows where she needs to be in her M and relationship with you, as I do in mine, but getting there is a HUGE problem and struggle at the moment) You said

“He now has rejected her as a person. Probably would not reject her physically (RAP is a little hottie) but as a PERSON I think he has. This is driving her nuts and the biggest reason I think she is going to talk to him while I am gone. She has this need to let him know she is not nutty. Even though her actions to him probably were. She cannot seem to accept someone not liking her and will go back and go back in the end making it worse. She cannot "let it go" and I really think they will meet and talk and she will be with him again, just because he will see an opportunity for an "easy lay" and take it.”

We have gone through similar emotions, struggles and foggy mixed up feelings at the same time (me and RAP). I know where she is coming from because I see myself at that stage too, which is probably frustrating for you as well (having me around here I mean and seeing my posts).

I too know where I need to go, but am in the same dilemma as your wife. Motivating a will to actually start…

If OM has ‘rejected’ her as a person as you say, that would be a HUGE NEGATIVE thing for her to get her mind around, like same with me…Especially as she is also a Christian, and we tend to feel far worse about what we have done, especially if we were in a form of ‘ministry’ before…

Her emotions and going back and forth with OM were her ‘inner struggles’ and were a very real and positive thing for her if she can look at it like that. (I preach to myself here)

OM has damaged her sense of self worth, she feels worse because she knows she shouldn’t have tried to find her self worth with him in the first place, he couldn’t cope with her inner/spiritual struggle and has left her feeling totally useless, feeling she is crazy and yet still drawn and addicted to him for his approval.

I am seeing me in her, as she can see herself in me and how I have posted.

I tell her, don't get wrapped up in what other people think, especially if THEY are not worthy or a person of noble character. I tell her consider WHO is giving the opinion. And it is like I am speaking another language to her.

I understand what you as her H is saying here, because my H says the exact same thing…realize your true self worth is in God, and yet know it is with me too…. Yes. It is like another lanuage you are speaking to her, because she cannot take that in at the moment any more than I can.

Right now we both (me and RAP) can only focus on wanting an answer from OM.

There are many different stages to a withdrawal and me and RAP are realizing them as they come out. Others have posted to us to say they went through them too.

Onlywords said..

After the affair ended, I could see that I should not depend on someone else to boost my self-esteem, and so part of why I wanted to keep my distance from my husband was the part of me that didn't want to rely on him or anyone else anymore for feeling good about myself.

This again is me and her. I am also distancing myself from my H because I am in PAIN. I know I have caused PAIN but in a way am afraid of ‘letting my heart’ go again. It becomes for a while ‘a state of inner withdrawal’ and only wanting to depend on yourself. It is like having to start from scratch again and realize your own self worth, and as Onlywords said, the last place it seemed to come from in our minds (FWW’s) was other man.

My H has become a ‘Silent’ Supporter to me during this stage. He talks when I feel I can, but is willing to ‘stand back’ until I do.

She is VERY strong. She doesn't know it. No, she DOES know it, but can't seem to bring it to bear on this issue.

Nor can I. I am slowly trying to and working it out in my life.

I don't know if I could TRUST the love she might give me.

I understand your pain, but this is the crucial question. You say you love her. Love loves even when it hurts.

I told her in the letter I left that I couldn't give her my heart anymore. She hurt it too much. I tried to mean it. I NEED to mean it for my own sake. But I KNOW what will happen. I'll be back to it in a few days. It just isn't in my nature to withold my heart from those I love.

I don’t know about RAP, but if I received a letter from my H like this, it would probably tear me apart thus:

(guilt and feeling that I deserved it),

bereavement and loss (I thought He loved me and was going to stick by me in this no matter what)

More loss of self worth

The one person I needed (though acknowledge I didn’t deserve him), my H, my rock can’t cope with me either.

I really am a terrible and bad person.

Or it could harden her heart because you have pulled on her emotionally and it will make her angry you could have done it in that way.

In a similar way aren’t you experiencing a going forward and back scenario as RAP is with OM? If it ISN’T in your nature to withhold from someone you love and you love RAP, then you have to show her your stability, your safeness, your love.

It will win the day. I believe it is for me with my H. Typing all this out to you is making me realize that the fact that he hasn’t withdrawn from me at all in this situation, but lovingly and quietly and gently carried me along, is making me re-realise and see the REAL HIM inside, not the OUTER side of OM.


This is an ongoing issue with her. I don't think I could name a relationship she has, family or friend, where we have NOT had a conversation where I have had to reassure her that this other person likes her. You know, sometimes a friend comes accross as little cold or distant. They have problems, they're busy, or tired, or whatever. Sometimes it is just that the relationship is not that close. To RAP, that becomes almost a debilitating statement about her WORTH. It is almost as if you can hurt her feelings looking at her wrong.

Maybe though as sad as this whole situation is for you and her, and me and my H and onlywords & RH, and RWS & his wife etc, perhaps it is a time for us to be able to ‘re look’ at ourselves and learn our true self worth is found in God first and foremost?

A scary sort of thing happened to me Friday morning. I took my daughter to school and a song ‘seek ye first the kingdom of God’ kept going over in my mind to the point of annoyance almost.

In daughter’s assembly there was a Christian speaker. He chose that song ‘seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all things will be added unto you’..

Not only that, he then went on to speak about seeking God and a time of learning in our lives, and remembering to always talk to him in prayer about all that troubles us.

I thought wow. It was like I was meant to go to that assembly.

Now here I am after this long post (and I hope not offensive to any of you)

My next step then?

I have only one thing to do. I need to do what God was telling me. I need to start seeking Him afresh. I need to read my Bible again… I am going to start now when I finish this post. I will start in Psalm 1 and read through the Psalms.

“I want to be that tree in Psalm 1. Growing by the river and drawing its strength from the true source”

No I don’t want to sound super spiritual again. I just want to sound as though I have to find a starting point to move forward…

God’s word can only be it.

Love you all,

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NC,

Before I answer your questions, I want to clear something up. I said I was "vulnerable" to an affair. I wasn't sure if your response was meant sincerely or sarcastically. So I wanted to clear up what I meant in case there IS some misunderstanding.

You said "vulnerable has no cause". I had to look the word up in the dictionary to check on that. It says: "Liable to succumb to persuasion or temptation; susceptible." and SUCCUMB means: "give in or give up; yield to an overpowering force or an overwhelming desire."

What that means to me is that I was MORE LIKELY to have an affair - NOT GUARANTEED- because of my inner condition combined with my perception of reality as well as the "true" reality (ie. not subjective) of outer conditions. I STILL MADE A CHOICE! There is absolutely no getting out of that! But if I want to learn from that choice so that I don't make the same wrong one again, I have to learn WHY.
I made the choice to have the affair because I was vulnerable Now I have to learn WHY I was vulnerable. In other words, what made me likely to make the wrong choice.

Having said that, I will tell you I am a lot like RAP- insecure about myself to the point where I think people don't like me, and feeling hurt if someone even "looks" at me wrong. I know this about myself and I hate it and I know that it is the real source of my misery. And I am working on this ESPECIALLY NOW because I KNOW I am guilty of "reading into" some of my husband's words and actions.

I also HUMBLY SUBMIT to the 2x4!!!! You are right- the problem needs to be clearly defined, and until it is, you'll just be going around in circles...(that's what I meant when I said in another post about banging your head repeatedly against a wall and not stopping long enough to see there is a door.) I'm not sure where that statement of mine came from - maybe I was thinking of the famous "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem." (That isn't meant personally, to you, by the way.)

It's funny you should say this :
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My biggest issue at this point, all the evidence points to the fact that to get RAP to respond positively I should reject her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Recovering H wanted more physical intimacy. I hold back. I said maybe he should act "hard-to-get" - if I think he doesn't desire me, then I would probably initiate sexual contact. Now, I said that jokingly...I was poking fun at myself because I knew that was a lot of what was behind my so-called "missing" of OM! I didn't think he liked me anymore (long story, not important) and most of my reasons for wanting contact was to MAKE SURE he still liked me. In my gut, I knew this. I didn't want to admit it. But the things you don't want to admit are probably the things that are most important to admit to...they seem to hold the key.
I don't want to play that game, though, so Ireally I don't want my husband to do that. Neither does he. It would be like putting a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches. I don't want my mind to work that way anymore- it's pathetic.

Ok, on to the answers to your questions. They were hard to answer. I wasn't sure if you wanted the right answer or my answer. Sometimes they agree or overlap.

1) Why are YOU a valuable person?
This is very tough. I know the RIGHT answer - because God says so!
But here is the usual way of thinking, for me:
All humans are selfish by nature. That is why my worth TO OTHERS and ACCORDING TO OTHERS, depends on what I can or can't do for them. I am included in this group, because I have been guilty of handing out approval based on what other people do or don't do for me! It's a daily, uphill struggle not to do this. I do not want to do this to other people and I do not want them to do it to me.
Now before you hit me with a 2x4, I KNOW that the opinion of others is NOT the true measure of my worth. I KNOW THIS! Much harder to live out than to say.

2) When someone in a casual relationship reacts negatively towards you, what are your feelings and how do you handle them?
My TENDENCY is the same as RAP's. I would probably feel left out, think they don't like me, etc....then obsess about it for a lot longer than is good for me! I am learning not to jump to conclusions about it. One thing that does help is to remind myself that there ARE people that like me, and that if other people DON'T like me, it's probably because they don't really know me and have assumed things about me !

3) Do you find your husband's opinion of you matters less because of familiarity, or more because he has invested so much of his heart in you?

Hmmm...before the affair or after it?

Before the affair, I wasn't really even sure anymore what his opinion of me was. I found myself thinking that he didn't care because he spent so little time with me and I was always at the bottom of his "to-do" list. It seemed to me that all he cared about was if he got sex. That was the only time I got his undivided attention, and even THAT was always when he was done with everything else for the day. I also remember thinking that he was probably only with me still because of the sex, and because he believes divorce is wrong.

AFTER the affair, I saw that he could have left, but he didn't. There were times when I wondered if it was only to avoid becoming a "public spectacle" - but you know, he's not the kind of guy who cares much what anyone else thinks. He has a LOT of confidence in himself. So, I realized that if he was only staying to "save face", then he wouldn't also be here trying so damn hard to work through this!

You ask hard questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If you have anymore, I'm happy to answer. This helps me clarify my thinking!

Julie

ncwalker - Are you around? Have you truly given up on your marriage, or are you just hurt?

NCWalker,

Please reply. What's going on. I know I don't post much, but I know your story. Please let us know what's up.

Boss

Dear NC

PLease reply to let us know what is happening. I know you do love Rap despite everything.

Please don't be mad...

She does really need you and you do need her.

She must have really have thought you were cute and 'wow' to nearly flunk her degree cos she was crazed for you! Guess we would love to see you in your 'olden' days back then...

Please take care,

Sorry I am not very good with words,

Just wanted you to know, I have learned to care so much for you all on here.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: ncwalker ]</small>

NC,

You can tell when a person is being honest as they write. I can tell that you are...everything is coming straight from your gut. Whenever I have read RAP's post I have always gotten the feeling that she is holding something back. I have no idea what, and it's none of my business.
Everyone has a breaking point. She has just seen yours, and it is something she HAS to see. You did what you had to do. I told her on the other thread that this looks like her call to action. The moment of truth. It has to come sooner or later.

Keep in touch,

Julie

Dear NC

“ I am very sorry, but at what f*ing point am I ALLOWED to do something to PROTECT MY feelings? Is the fog THAT BAD that a WS can’t extend some consideration to a BS? Or are all you WWs going to post “It’s OK RAP, feelings are hard. You just have to get through them.” SCREW THAT. There are just some things you DON’T DO. There is NO EXCUSE for BEING THAT INCONSIDERATE OF MY FEELINGS. She is a Christian woman. I don’t care if I was Atilla the fr*akin Hun for a husband, that was WRONG and someone needs to knock some d*mn sense into her head about how a REASONABLE person acts.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I don’t know what to say. I need to hear this ‘for me’. I needed to hear your anger.

My husband may not get angry like you, but for the first time he did last night, because he knew I had been buying drink still, and he knew I deliberately drove back to repark the car when I was out on my own on Sat because I wanted to see OM.

My H is usually very laid back and easy going. In a way maybe if he started to show me a little bit of ‘anger’ more It could knock me into my senses? Don’t know. Just wondering. Nothing excuses my behaviour I know that.

So I call RAP and talk to her after hasty D call. I tell her, if she wants this to work, it is my terms or no deal. I tell her she needs to get down here and she is going to stay down here until I find different job and leave city with

[B]Know what? I start backing off again. I am an f*ing wuss. I promise NOT to call OMW. Won’t back down about her coming down here. She says let’s talk about it first. Starts getting really upset about what she now has to go through .

Thank you. By showing and venting your complete anger in this, in some weird unexpecting way It has made me realize something I need to talk to my H about.

I need ‘firmness’

I need some ‘anger’

Ineed him to really ‘go to town’ on me like you have in this post

I need to be brought to my senses.

In a way you have done that for me. I need to keep reading this and listen.

RAP, if you read this please let go of your OM and stay with this H. Read between the posts and listen to what he is saying.

I wish I could bring this ’explosiveness’ into my ‘intimate’ life with H. I don’t think I would ever feel the same again.

Am being serious now, not just joking. My H is wonderful and caring, but I wish he was a little more ‘controlling’ and ‘forceful’ ‘ruling’ in the intimate side.

Thank you again NC. Believe it or not, you are making some true sense to me and what I need to do..

In an indirect way because I am like RAP in some ways I need speaking to like this in one sense.

Hope she won’t mind me saying this.

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV,
Maybe it didn't take as much anger from my husband to knock some sense into me, but it was kind of the turning point. He said to me:

"Wake up and smell the sh#$t! At least you'll know you're alive!"

It ticked me off, and I still don't know what that really means, but it worked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

NC,

You have to tell OMW. POJA does not apply to this.

I read RAPS posts at least 3 hours ago...I then left... and waited and waited.


I met my husband at the door after he finished his day...and gazed at him...he asked me what was up .....the only words that came from my mouth were... noubt as queer as folk and we hugged.


This medium I find very difficult to communicate through...Getting in touch with feelings is so very important...

I am at a place where I hear from you...your at your at wits end.

Just ask yourself this.....Other than the option of divorce...what other options do you have?


ON a side note...I believe informing OMW of the A is imperative at some point. I do however attach guidlines to it.

A...ensure there is not a history of DV

B...ensure the party to be informed of the A...is in a safe place to hear it. That there is support available to them.

C...Your motives are to end the A and not to punish either party.( thats both WS and BS)


Max