Hey there,

How about putting the camera in the "secret" room? And maybe the tape recorder too? Have you thought about taping the phones too? Were you able to sneak around and find receipts and a paper trail?

How is Plan A going? Are you fulfilling EN's and keeping out LB's? Getting more involved in the business?

And planning for Plan B?

Well, we got back tonight from a 3 day trip to our friends' summer house. I tried to continue with Plan A and overall I think I followed it pretty well. The trip was pretty sad. It's something we've done every summer for many years and always had a great time. This time I felt so unwelcome in his company, but that's no surprise. Otherwise it was nice to be with old friends and their kids.

SD,
yes SAA has helped me see what I did to allow the A to happen. As mentioned in my first post I spent a lot of time with sick family members and dealing with their loss. Well, not really dealing, more like going numb to avoid the pain, throwing myself into work and trying to keep us financially afloat. I'm sure I didn't give H the attention and fulfill the EN's needed to keep the marriage healthy.

I'd meet H at out of town art shows whenever I could. But I could only be there for part of the time. I usually felt like I was intruding on H's world. Then I found my own interests, began selling antiques as a 2nd income and I know I spent too much time at that. I let him know that I'd love it if he'd come with me to auctions and antique shows...told him that I envied the married couples I saw doing those things together. I'd invite him to every auction I went to, but he never joined me.

I think we're probably too far apart now unless he has some sort of awakening. All he really wants from me is a comfortable home and dinner on the table. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Probably a LB but I've stopped cooking.

StillHereMakingIt,
The camera is set up for tomorrow morning. The recorder was too risky in that room. The phone would be risky too. I'm too stressed out to chance it right now. There's not much of a paper trail, nothing that would hold up in court. I'm hoping the camera will do its job.

I'd appreciate any advice on what to do if and when I get proof. Should I wait and talk to an attorney first? Or should I let H know right away that I know for certain about the A? Should I let him know about the film or just say that I saw them? He'll go ballistic about the camera.

<small>[ July 17, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: haywire ]</small>

Hay wire,

First, nice move in reading SAA.
Just being able to see where you are, understand what has already occurred, and then being able to judge what can and will happen is more then 90% of the folks out there struggling with an A get.
So at least feel confident in the fact that YOU are helping yourself tremendously. You are now so much better prepared to make an effective plan for yourself. Good going! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Next, How are you doing otherwise? Here recently, I have just been keeping up on your progress by reading your posts.
I thought since you'd gotten the PI involved (with all the High tech gadgets & such) that you'd pretty much gotten the "discovery" part of the equation under control.

Hence, my just waiting and watching how things play out for you.
Unfortunately, they don't appear to be progressing as quickly as you'd like (at least not as of this post). The frustration is Completely understandable on your part.

However, now I feel the time has come for me to share with you what worked for me in "busting" my wife.
As you probably don't know, just a little background:
(This way you can see that even though not exactly the same, I had a similar challenge in Catching my wife as well).

My wife's affair took place completely (100%) at work.
She worked in 2 separate hospitals and the areas she would "fool around" in were in areas I had NO Access too. [No keys and defiantly NO authorization]
In addition, other ways to catch her were dead ends as well.
Since this was with her boss, all cell phone calls were of course said to be "work" related.
All call backs to go into hospital after hours, were you guessed it ...work related.
Her pager, her work email were all off limits to me. [Company policy]

So my dilemma came when I knew "something" was going on.
My problem was I had little recourse as to how to get any proof.
It was driving me insane (literally).

Any way at the same time I found this site, I was also scouring the Internet looking for anything that could help me. ( Wish I had known about these voice activated recorders, they could have been a huge help).
In any case, I did come across something that not only seemed like it could help, it ultimately busted my W.

It's called check mate, and what it is...(sorry).....is a home testing kit for semen on (usually) clothing. It does not stain or harm the clothing and is very reliable.
(I tested it myself before I tried to use it to catch her).
Any way here is part of the website (not trying to be a shill here) only trying to help you in your tough time.

Here it is: [OK guys roll the commercial]-----
***If you're being disrespected at home or if you just need to get something out of your mind, the original CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit is the answer you've been looking for.

CheckMate is like having your own high tech crime lab at your disposal 24 hours a day 
 
Men aren't so hard to figure out... Men continue to secrete small amounts of semen for up to 2 hours or more after each sexual encounter. Long after the initial sex act a man will have dried / invisible traces of semen present in his undergarments. Even if a man uses a condom during sexual intercourse or even if he only had oral sex performed on himself, there will still be traces of semen in his underwear every single time.

For women this "absolutely amazing" product gives you an "extended reach" outside of your home, and allows you to better monitor the activities of a suspected cheating spouse.  All testing is done in the comfort and privacy of your own home, there's no cutting or staining of the suspected garment, and because semen stains will remain on unwashed articles for many years, any garment of any color  that you suspect has been stained with semen, can quickly, easily and accurately be tested with the CheckMate semen detection products.

Each CheckMate Infidelity Test Kit can test 5 or more articles of clothing and you get a second test kit free in every box. Test 10 or more stains for the presence of semen for around $5.00 each.  All CheckMate semen detection products also come with a complete 100% Money - Back Satisfaction Guarantee.****
[Roll Credits.....Fade To Black]

So there you go. My tool that brought my "insanity" to an end. I don't know of much else I could have done. (Wife ONLY used work email to  type things to him.......so computer spy-wear was useless to me as well.)

I completely trusted her and she used that loving Trust as a weapon against me.
Sound familiar?

(Apologize for the graphic nature here).

Any way once I got the kit:
All I did is stop having sex with my W for 2 weeks before I decided to try and catch her. (As to NOT get a false positive from myself).
Then I waited for  a likely day........
[He checks his watch....all systems are a go]

The next day I tested her panties and guess what there WAS semen in them....& it sure WASN'T Mine! So low and behold...Bingo....Got Ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As stated above, a man will leave small traces of semen in his underclothes after having intercourse. (Even if he showers).

I think I remember you mentioning that you and your H aren't intimate that much anymore, so this shouldn't be a problem for you to find out if he's been ejaculating somewhere else.

If its not with you, then who?
Especially, if you check on a day AFTER he's been working with the OW ALL DAY.
Mr. Haywire , Don't even try to say you went to the bathroom to J*ck O*f, while on a lunch break or something.  Please, even we're not that naive.

Anyway at the very least go there and read for yourself and see if this might help you.
YOU really seem to need to have proof.
So I REALLY want you to get some.
However, if this is not for you.......then keep looking.

The knowing something, but not really "knowing" is an insane place to be.
Especially when your WS decides to attempt to make you feel like you are Nuts and that its all in your head.

Even if this is not for you, I hope your 007 tactics and your PI can give you the peace of mind of getting  to the truth.
Even if the "knowing" will bring its own pain as well. At least then the "if's" and "maybe" part will be over.
You can handle the truth.......You Can't handle being in limbo!

Keep at it and we'll be here for you.
Wishing you successful Hunting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

top rope,
Thanks so much. Once you found proof, then what?

I saw them this morning kissing. It is on tape, which they don't know. I told him that I saw them kissing and he DENIED it! Said I didn't see anything. Then he left. So I told her I know about them, and she denied it. Started whining about how she comes here every day and works sooooo hard. That she hasn't done anything wrong. I asked if being with another woman's husband wasn't wrong. She yelled, "I haven't had sex with your H"! I said, now I know, and now YOU know I know.

top rope,
I'd read about check mate. Glad it worked for you! Last week I found semen on his underwear and there's another website that describes where it will be on the underwear (near the waistband) if there was sex with another person. Well it was pretty obvious that it was sex. And it was just after he'd been with her alone at our home...after he made a point of encouraging everyone to leave (myself included). I've left the UW with the PI and he can send them to be tested to see if there's evidence of sex with a woman. That was going to be my next step if I didn't "see" them doing something. I didn't see them have sex, just kissing -- in their "private room".

For legal purposes, do I need more proof than I've got?

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: haywire ]</small>

Haywire, has she left your house? As far as I am concerned you have all the proof you needed to confront your H. But you might keep the P.I. in place because if she doesn't come to your house anymore, I would expect that the affair would move to her house.

Have you heard back from your H?

She IS still here...unbelievable.

H came in the house and quietly went into his office. Then saw me on his way out...said he's going to help DD work in the studio. I just looked at him, waiting for him to say something. All he said was, "I've got no fight in me". I said "I don't want to fight". He said "good" and walked out.

I really want him to leave. I don't want to be in the same house with him.

haywire, I can't believe she has the nerve to stay in your house. I would address this immediately. She can't possibly stay in your home anymore. You have the proof and for her to stay there is absolutely cruel and downright craven. No woman should ever have to tolerate the OW in her house with the affair being played out right under her nose.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

The OW just went to work on a "pet project" of hers in another part of the property away from the studio where WH and DD are. This is too bizarre. And hurtful.

haywire, you need to address this with your H NOW. It is unacceptable for the OW to be on your property or in your house. You need an explanation from your H about the kissing you saw this morning.

If you don't stand up for yourself and lay down boundaries, haywire, no one else will. And having OW in your home carrying on an affair is absolutely unacceptable.

I sense that your H is trying to play the victim here, but he is anything but, haywire. So don't let the victim act intimidate you. You are the ONLY victim in this situation.

Your H and his OW are determined to carry on an affair in the comfort of YOUR HOME. That is not something that any woman should ever have to endure.

Haywire

I've been following your posts and wanted to say how sorry I am that you are in such a predicament. Discovery of the A is so painful. You always want to think that they couldn't possibly do that to me and the family. Oh, what the FOG will make people do...

Listen to Melody...

You need to set up boundaries NOW to get her outta there! I know your H was "helping" her to get another job and I remember deadlines and such, but that agreement should be tossed. You need to find the strength and words to not allow her to flaunt this affair in your house. I'm surprised she can even show her face...the nerve of some people!

"Our" OW avoids me like the plague, but not until WH tried to get us to be friends first (he's a real chump BTW, see my thread to verify).

What do the vets think about showing WH the video? He is still trying to deny, the silly man. What about the underwear?

What, I don't want her to show him that video because it will show her hand. She doesn't have to "prove" what he already knows. Thats why I don't think she should show it. I want him to think she somehow SAW them.

However, she may have to do that as a last resort.

Melody & What,
Thanks for the push. I told him she's to leave NOW. And she's gone.

He told me I'm driving "everyone" away. So be it. I'm sorry about this, but I really do want him to leave.

I agree that the video should be unmentioned for now. It's a last resort. I'll speak to a lawyer first. He knows they were kissing. He knows I know that. They'll assume I was in the studio and saw them through the open door to "their room".

Should I have the underwear tested for evidence of him having sex with a woman? Is it worth spending $300 now?

haywire, very good job. I have been sitting here waiting to hear that you are ok. Does he understand that she is not to come back EVER? EVER.

Does your D know what has happened?

Melody,
Yes, D knows exactly what happened. He barely said a word to her and now he's gone. I think he took a bag of clothes with him so maybe he's gone for awhile.

The OW still has things here. One is a trunk with all her supplies.

I'll make it clear that she's never to return here, but I'm not sure it'll happen. I'm away at work during the week. D will be here though.

haywire, please consider calling Steve Harley for some professional help. This is a very serious situation and I think you need professional help in order to protect yourself. It scares me for you that they are SO CRAVEN that they would carry on this affair right in your own house. This is so flagrant and cruel that I am concerned for you.

Instead of spending $300 on the semen test, I would invest that in some counseling from SH. He is an expert in this field and won't waste your money. He could assess your situation and help you protect yourself.

When he comes back, I would make it clear to him that you won't tolerate the OW in your house ever again. I would vow to call the police if that happens and ask your D to call you at work if she shows up. Please do not tolerate this, haywire. Its one thing to have a spouse who is destroying you behind your back, it is quite another to do in your home.

I would also start thinking about your finances and how you can protect yourself. Do you have seperate finances?

Way to go Haywire!

Again, listen to Melody, her suggestions are right on the money.

Stay firm in your resolve to get rid of her and her stuff. Have a third party give her the rest of her supplies.

It sounds like he may have left for awhile. He will probably go to OW. There is nothing you can do to stop him. Stay strong and hang on for one helluva rollercoaster ride.

Keep posting here for help, we're with you all the way, Haywire.

(((((((((Haywire)))))))) (this is a virtual hug!)

Thanks Melody & What,
I have an appointment with an IC tomorrow. But maybe I'll still call SH afterwards. Will he still work with me, even though I don't want to stay married?

Most of our finances are separate. I pay most of the household bills and have received very little financially from him for the past few years. His excuse was that his business was struggling. Just my luck, his business is doing much better right now and he probably would have helped pay the bills this month.

haywire -

Good for you, now keep her out. See a lawyer about how to do that. Talk about brazen! You need to take care of you right now. Enough of this total disrespect.

haywire, why not just go ahead and see your IC tomorrow and see how this plays out? Do you have an attorney yet? It might be a good idea to contact him also and see what he thinks.

I don't have a lawyer yet but have some names to call. I do need to find about about my legal rights for keeping her off my property. I'm going to take the day off from work tomorrow so I'll be here most of the day except for during the IC appointment.

Just got off the phone with a friend who lived in the apartment here for awhile 11 years ago. Told me that he remembers coming home one night when I was away, H's & OW's cars were here, all the doors to the house were locked. (They're NEVER all locked) He thought it was strange but didn't pay much attention to it.

This has been going on for many years.