LLG,

I don't think you should give up. I think you should stay in contact with him as much as you can. As for signing the separation agreement, you should see a lawyer and inquire as to the ramifications of NOT signing it.

If you don't want the divorce you don't have to comply with his time line. But, I would strongly urge you to talk to a good counselor, such as the Harley's, to develop a plan to address the marriage and how to rebuild it.

I am still sort of curious though, did you not realize that one of the consequence of what you and OM did could be that your H would leave?? Did you really take him so much for granted that you thought he would just "shake it off" and continue with the marriage?

I think this is something you need to think about, becuase I strongly suspect it is something your H is thinking about. That you and your OM will think him a spineless fool for taking you back. This is NOT just pride on his part. If you really were to feel this way he would be a fool for coming back because you have already found it acceptable to disrespect him and he has no reason to think you would respect him if he decided to try and rebuild the marriage. Just remember it isn't how you feel or think that counts when addressing this. He feelings and thoughts count a lot. I realize they did not before, but he needs to know they do now.

You might even ask him some of these questions.

As someone earlier posted, the fact that he loves you is reason enough to come back, but it is obviously was not reason enough to keep you from cheating on him. This is the part you need to address. He feels absolutely defensless right now, and he feels like a prize fool. If this is going to work you and he are going to have to come up with a way to make him feel he has some protection.

Sadly, he never felt he had to protect himself against you. Now he does. Please keep these things in mind as you talk with him.

Frankly, the fact that he flew back to give you these papers in person is significant. It may mean that he cannot be cruel to you which is good. Or he wanted the satisfaction of ending it in person. I am of the belief that he cannot be cruel to you. That is a good thing.

Finally, you are probably right, his friends are telling him to divorce you. Frankly, from the outside that is probably the best advice. You have no children, you have cheated on him, he has no trust, and he is hurting. The standard advice is to move on. Even Harley says that is often best...AFTER you have done your best to see if the marriage can be salvaged.

So hang in there. Start to consider how his "thinking" and why, rather than what he is "feeling". It will help you to focus your interactions with him.

I personally would recommend regular communications with him, email,voice, whatever. Keep it sort of light, talk about what you are doing, tell him you miss him and love him. Tell him you want to hear what he is feeling. But don't push. Just keep the lines open, and give this time. The first two to three months are very very hard on the BS.

God Bless,

JL

LG,
If he claims to still love you, then you should be able to convince him to at least hold off on the D. Ask him to please defer his decision for just a few months. That should give him time to cool down and you time to show him the woman you really are, or at least want to be.

Just a word of caution. When it comes time for you to explain your behavior, you should have a thought out and logical response. None of this “I just don’t know why” stuff. He deserves an honest answer.
Coach

loST,,,
lISTEN TO ME,,,,,If you sign the papers you will be sending your husband the message,, (I am in love with the OM) dont be hasty even though your husband has. You think he knows what he is doing or what he wants? He doesnt. Sign the papers and he will think ,, "man that was easy she let me go like I was nothing" I did some stupid stuff like that just to test my wifes true determination and love. Not once did she let me go... She would say NO I am not ever letting you go, you are what I want I have no excuse for the pain I have caused,, I hate myself for what i did. You are my husband my love and I have destroyed my life, there is no way in hell I am not fighting for the most important thing in my life. These are just a few things my wife said to me,, and she is proving it right now. By signing you will hurt him even more, it may be a test for himself to see how attached you are to other man. He is giving you a way out, dont take it, if you dont want it show him that you dont. He may have influences telling him he should leave you, I know I did. You say you will not give up! By signing the papers you are giving up. Be strong.
I never thought I could reurn to my wife but I did. I just had to let myself heal some. I said very hurtful things to my wife,,, I even had my own one night stand while we were separated,, told my wife everything about it,, guess to level the playing field. I felt she would feel my pain,, I wanted her to. She still remained determined to make things right, she has suffered as I have suffered. I gave her a way out,, it was not what she truly wanted,, she wants me. You are the only one who can make your husband feel this way. By signing you are saying you lied all along about being sorry for what you did.. FIGHT FOR YOUR MARRIAGE it is in us all to forgive if we know what we may be losing.

Lost:

Sometimes I’m a bit perplexed by the shrill tone of some of the "advice" you have been getting. I have noticed that this chastising is generally reserved for wives that cheat. I don't know why the double-standard exists; just another one of life’s little inconsistencies.

Most people realize that people in affairs don’t generally think about consequences, they don’t think about how their actions might hurt their spouse; hell they hardly think at all. I am a FWS and I know that I didn’t do a lot of deep reflection during my sordid dalliance.

First, you don’t have to sign anything. Even if you think you can’t afford it, go see an attorney and see what your legal position is. Have the attorney read the separation papers and get advice about what to do with them.

If you don’t want a divorce, then again, don’t actively participate in the process. He will probably have to file in your state, and that will require him to physically be present for all court actions. This will be a huge burden on him considering he is 3,000 miles away.

Stay in plan A. It is really hard to do long distance, but it isn’t impossible.

Finally, you are human. You made a terrible decision . . . that doesn’t mean you are a terrible person. The position that your husband is taking is hardly rational. Very few spouses behave this way . . . and I question this behavior. Most people are a little less apt to simply discard one's spouse . . . even if the spouse was unfaithful. Read on this forum the lengths that some BS go to try to save their marriages.

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. I feel like I am learning more and more with each post. I only wish I had been here before my dreadful decision. Thank you all for you open honesty. I definately don't want the sugar coating. You all have been great about balancing the difficult with the encouraging...that is more than I deserve.

About the legal stuff...I have 4 lawyers in my immediate family, so I am taken care of legally. To me this is not a legal question, but a moral one. Yes, I want to do the right thing for once in a long time. Part of the reason my husband may be taking things so fast is because he is afraid of my family of lawyers. They all love him, and are pretty upset with me, so he has no reason to feel my family in the least. I am guessing he is probably getting the push from his family and buddies to divorce he fast...they don't know my family is fair. Besides the separation papers give me nothing, and that is fine, I'm not after his money. I don't deserve it.

He is not filing in our home state rather in the state he is currently living in which is a fault state, ours is not, but it doesn't matter, I don't want money, not one cent, and I have told him that. He said if I don't sign the separation papers he will go ahead and file in his state for adultry, yes, it is possible. It would cost us both a fortune, but he can do it if he wants. He will only be living in his current state for another 3 months anyway though, so if he does take me to court there he would have to return there too.

What I want him to hold off for a few months till he's had time to really think and settle down, and I've had time to prove he can begin to try and trust me again. I think he wants it over now so he will stop hurting, but you all know divorcing me won't even begin to heal the hurt. Thank you all.

So, I have not contacted him all week, because I have been afraid he will ask about the papers, but what I'm hearing from all of you is I should just call to say hi?

LLG,

Yes, you should call him and continue to do so. He is very hurt as I discussed in my last post that worse than being hurt, he very likely feels you made a complete fool of him. He doubts anyone would respect him if he decided to try.

You must understand one of the powerful things about this board for the BS is that it is ACCEPTED that they want to work on rebuilding the marriage after they have been betrayed. That view is NOT shared in the general public as much as one would think, although many marriages survive adultery, they may not recover from it.

If you can get him to talk about his feelings, his anger, things like that, you will start to learn where his mind is. You will need to address this even if he does divorce you.

I hope you read "hopeful_person" threads here. It might be true that he needs to divorce to allow you another chance, but frankly the better way is to not do that.

Have you figured out why you did this? Have you come to understand how the lies and continued contact with OM have hurt your H? I am still betting he feels you and OM had a great time laughing at him, and he is very humiliated.

These are the things you need to get around and through with him. There is no easy way. I hope you have been reading the articles here about NEEDS and how to meet them. About Love Busters, and the love bank. This is going to be difficult to do unless you move nearer to him, but it can be done.

Have you talked with his family? Often times they can be of help once they understand you are truely remorseful. If you want this don't leave a stone unturned.

But, first and foremost you must come face to face with what you have done, and understand it. Please work on that.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you so much for you posts! Yes, I agree with you on all grounds. You know exactly where my husband is coming from, and you are a wealth of knowledge to me. I am reading all I can, I even sent my husband SAA and some of the articles, I think he thought I was trying to blame him. I was trying to help, but I understand his position.

Why...I have been working on the why in counseling for 8 months...My needs were not being met, but not because my husband wasn't...I wasn't letting him meet my needs. I built up a big wall, and the emotional disconnection grew...My husband had no clue...thus our mutual "friend" and my "confidant" became the OM. It is all so clear now that the fog has lifted.

I just read "Not Just Friends", and I would love my husband to read it, but I am afraid he will take it the wrong way if I send another book. I just want him to know his feelings are normal...I think hearing about what other betrayed spouses have endured could help him feel less isolated. What do you think?

As for his family...I swallowed my pride, and called a few weeks ago...It was a very difficult call for me, but I'm glad I did it. I am scared to call again, they are grieving...They really liked me before! I now they were shocked, everyone was, this was way out of my character. All they kept saying was they didn't know what to say, neither of them had ever been unfaithful!!! That was it, over and over. So, Im not looking to call back soon. They are great people, but I know they support their son 100%, and infidelity is not tolerated, I am pretty sure they are pushing hard for the divorce. I think they are trying to help him, as the general public all seems to think divorce is the answer to infidelity.

Nobody is even suggesting my husband try to stay and work on this, and that scares me. He is so broken, that Im afraid he won't listen to his heart, but instead to everyone who is saying get out now. Wouldn't he look like a bigger fool in everyone else's eyes if he tried to work it out?

What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot? The best advice that I have heard so far is to try to convince him to let the dust settle before moving forward with the divorce. Appeal to his sense of reason, as in it is never wise to make a decision with long-lasting implications when one is upset. Ask him what he needs to make him feel more comfortable with working on rebuilding the marriage. How long have you two been married? Are you both still fairly young? Try to get him to remember the good times before this happened. Fly out to meet him on the spur of the moment and ask him to talk with you. He is getting a lot of advice from those pushing him to divorce you, but is not getting much advice to work on the marriage. It is easy for other folks to judge you when they don't even know you.

Please consider asking your H out on dates. Let him know that you will not pressure him in any way, shape or form about remaining married to you. The point is for him to slowly lower his emotional defenses so that he can begin to see YOU, the woman he fell in love with years ago. If he brings up the subject of divorce, just acknowledge it and quickly change the subject to a much lighter one [his career, his family, his friends, his hobbies, etc.]. But ALWAYS keep in mind that getting your H back and saving your marriage is a LONG process that will require LOTS of PATIENCE and UNDERSTANDING on your part. So if you are truly willing to tough it out, then you have a great shot at rebuilding your marriage into something better than the original.

Yes, I agree with all of you, thanks for you posts. I would love to fly out and meet him, but he isn't sure. I asked if I could come for my birthday, which is in a couple months, and he said he didn't know. I'm not sure about how he would feel if I just came, but I've thought about it several times. I am willing to fly across the country just for a few moments with him. It would be fine with me if he just met me at the airport spent a few moments, and left, anything at this point...baby steps are fine.

Yes we were both just babies when we got together...I was 16 and he was 22 when we met, we married a year later, amd hve been married 7 years now (he just turned 31, and I'll be 25 soon)...yes, we have grown up together. I don't regret getting married so young, but I was just a kid, and still am. We have no children yet, though we both really want them. He is ready, but I am not.

One of the strains on our marriage was the fact that we both were too busy working toward building successful careers, while we forgot to nurture our marriage. We are both successful now, but our marriage is not! My husband just got a major promotion in January, that is what moved him accross the country, and I am in graduate school. Change has been all around us, especially this past year.

LLG,

I would like you to think about a few things. Please don't take this as a harsh response but one to start you to focus on things perhaps in a different light. For the time being let's just remove the A from the equation and consider what you have told us. Then I have a few questions I want to ask.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My needs were not being met, but not because my husband wasn't...I wasn't letting him meet my needs. I built up a big wall, and the emotional disconnection grew...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So before the A you were shutting your H out of your life, right? You were obviously resenting something he was or was NOT doing. You may not realize it but he noticed at least I am sure he was aware that you were not responding to him. Probably had no idea what to do.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My husband had no clue...thus our mutual "friend" and my "confidant" became the OM. It is all so clear now that the fog has lifted. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, you removed yourself from your H's emotional life, and perhaps sexual life right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of the strains on our marriage was the fact that we both were too busy working toward building successful careers, while we forgot to nurture our marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So the career focus was being substituted by both of you for focus on your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are both successful now, but our marriage is not! My husband just got a major promotion in January, that is what moved him accross the country, and I am in graduate school.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you are in graduate school. You mentioned a career so I am assuming that you are working as well, right?

He has been gone for 7 months, and you had been in the A for at least 6 months before he left.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Change has been all around us, especially this past year. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To put it mildly, but it was happening before this as well.

Finally, he is ready to start a family and you are not. Understandable, you have a career, you are in graduate school which I presume means you want to push your career higher and further, you are almost 25 which is in my book YOUNG. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And you are not ready to have children yet. Makes sense to me.

So consider all of this, let me ask you some very pointed questions for you to consider, because I think you will need to address them before you two can get back together.

My first question is why do you want to be married to him?

It seems to me that you have been doing just fine with him out of your life for a long time. You shut him out, you were focused on your career and that was fine. You are not ready for a family so you don't really need an H for that reason. Why do you want him in your life now, when you were removing him emotionally before, and his career had removed him physically almost 7 months ago?

My next question is what do you think he got out of the marriage to make him want to come back?

He was not getting emotional support or response from you. He wants a family now and you don't. What do you bring to his life that he doesn't have right now where he is? Frankly, I don't see much by your description. He did not have your love.

So once you have considered these things let's add the A to the mix.

It seems that not much was being added to his life without the A, so now he has to deal with the fact that he cannot trust you. That you found another man both physically and emotionally more compatible than he, if not just better.

Further, how will he know that this won't happen again, you see you will have a career as well as he, so you both will probably travel, and he must trust that you won't fall for another man.

He cannot count on you for support when things get tough.

Now I am asking you this NOT to discourage you, but for you to build up your resources. It seems to me right now he is thinking you bring nothing to his life. Oh! you have some memories, but what else? The "what else?" is what you need to provide. You need to find away to remind him that his life would be better with you than without you. Yet, if you sacrifice everything (your career, etc) he fears correctly that you will resent him. He should fear that, resentment ruins many marriages.

So as you think, as you begin to communicate with him, you need to be planting seeds, that you can nuture. These seeds need to be directed toward what you can and have brought to his life that was good. Those seeds must be fertilized with the knowledge of why you shut him out. Why you lied is obvious, it is what happened before the A that is crucial to understand.

You need to counter the very reasonable advice to just move on. What will make going through the pain of recovery worth it? Obviously the pain of divorce is no bargin. IT is also true that ANY woman he meets in the future may well cheat on him, the odds are scary as women now cheat at almost the same rate as men. There are no guarentees. But, he does know who he is dealing with in you. You do have a history. If you have learned where you failed, and how to address things in a better more open fashion with him, you can be his BEST choice for the future.

Sort of the "devil you know versus the one you don't".

But, there is one final thing you MUST consider. Why do you want to be married to him? You got along well shutting him out, you had no problem finding his replacement, and clearly something was wrong in the marriage. Of all of the things YOU need to do, it is to deeply and honestly look within yourself and decide if YOU really want him and why. You MUST understand this before all else. And frankly it cannot be just because you might lose him,or because of embarassment. There must be some deep reason for you to continue with him, because your actions clearly are not consistent with what you have said.

Does this make sense LLG? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

Wow JL, your post is sooo much to the point, it's scary! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Truth be told you usually don't mince words.

That's what I love about your responses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Great post.
L.

hi there i don`t understand why people have affairs when there spouses are so wonderful i wish i could get my wife to want us back but i don`t know how? isure hope you can work things out

Thank you for all your replies...I will get back to yours tomorrow Just Learning, thank you for all your thought provoking questions. I will spend some time with those.

Just thought I would share some positive news! I got an e-mail and a call from my husband today, and both were positive!!! It had been a week since I talked to him, when he dropped off the separation papers. He said he definately still wants the separation papers signed now (Argh), but he will slow down on the divorce!!! So November may not be the end after all! He said he hates everything we're going through, and that he still cares about me. He even signed his e-mail with love, which he has not been doing! I can see little flickers here. When he talked to me, he avoided being close to his buddies, I reminded him they were just protecting their friend (they have said mean stuff before about me in the background), then he said he had to protect me! This is good!

He says we will talk more this weekend, so I will keep you posted. Thanks!

LG...
This undoubtedly a tough situation to be in.

Love is hard to shake and if your H still loves you he will have many 2nd thoughts, some 3rds and 4ths as well, you window of opportunity lies within those windows....

Take advantage and you might save your marriage.

good luck

Back to the paper issue. I am thinking I should go ahead with signing the separation agreement to make my husband happy. This is what he thinks he needs to move on and heal. But I am still torn.

The problem is, what he wants me to sign is not just a separation agreement, but also a settlement agreement. It basically gives me nothing, I don't deserve anything. He works, and I am a fulltime student. He was always supported me not working. Now, I don't know how I will support myself. I know this is what I deserve after what I've done. For now, I have put my pride aside and have moved back to live with my family. What do you think I should do about this issue.

LLG,
Don't sign any of it. Once you do IMHO there is very little chance.

Tell your H you want to try and reconcile and that you need some time.

You're being a bit passive on this one.

BTW what state is your H working in? How long has he been there?

cwmac

Passive? please explain.

My husband is living in Virginia (fault state), he's been there 6 months, he moves in 3 months. I'm in California (no-fault state), plus 4 lawyers in the family. Husband has always joked that if he ever left me he would lose his shorts. Thus...a Virginia divorce is his answer, makes sence. He will only be there 3 more months though, so, I don't know how it will work. A California divorce would be fine, I don't want his money, any of it, and I have been quite clear about that. I think perhaps this is payback...I deserve payback I know.

If I don't sign won't he freak? He told me he would take me to court on adultery charges if I don't sign. I don't want that, and I don't want to hurt him anymore. He won't even be living in Virginia anymore after 3 months, so I don't see how it would make sence to take me to court there. Is that just a scare tactic? It is working, I am scared. But more scared he will never try to reconcile if I don't follow his plan.

LLG,
How long have you been married?

Did H come to the marriage with sizable assets?

His money? If it was earned during the marriage it's your(as in H & you) money. Whether you were a full time or part time student makes no difference.

If H has been in Virginia for 6 months I don't think that creates residency. That's definitely an attorney question. I'm assuming he rents in VA and you own a house in Ca.

BTW cwmac is also in Ca. so Cal. The OC.

Early in my recovery when I was in the anger stage I *****ed about having to potentially pay alimony etc. It was the anger and feelings of humiliation coming thru.

Are you familiar with the 7 stages of loss?

cwmac

I'm in the OC too! Born and raised here! I just moved back to be with my family. We had been living in Ventura County fot the past 5 years. We were renting up there, but I put everything in storage and moved down here when all this exploded. As for my Husband...he is a geographical bachelor (he lives in a military barracks) but he gets a housing allowance for me here in CA. He can file in Virginia, he has been there long enough, but he is moving in 3 months, so??? As for assets? We really have nothing, we are still young and just starting out. My husband has a pension though, which is closely guarded (CA says military pensions are community property, Virginia is different), also the alimony thing, he has fully supported me all 7 years of our marriage, and was actually against me working.

My not wanting to signing the paperwork has little to to the the money. Yes, my lawyer has told be legally I am entitled to half, reguardless of what I've done. True, I have helped my husband become the success he is today...He has more than doubled his paycheck since we got married, finished college, and got a commission. I just want to be sure my husband know for sure it's not his money I want, it's him. I know it may be dumb to take nothing, but I don't want my husband to look at the little deduction from his paycheck each month and hate me for it. He thinks he's being fair? I have not been able to say anything, in his mind, giving me nothing is fair, perhaps payback for my sins? I don't want to say anything about it though, I don't want him to be mad and file now after he just said he would slow down with the actual divorce! Time is on my side!

As for the 7 stages of loss??? Please fill me in!

<small>[ July 10, 2004, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: lostnlonelygirl ]</small>