Originally posted by runawaypot:

Pep,

I don't remember my posts stating what you said did not bother me. But that is quite possible.

Some of your judgments about me during that time did hurt me, but that is my problem, not yours. I did not need to let it hurt me. I am a little sensitive that way.

Well... you got through all of it without hurting yourself, and that is what really matters the most.

I realize also about your comment about church affairs being in Torn Asunder. I just felt the delivery was not intended to be helpful. I also felt (my own observation only) that BV probably did not say that.

My delivery is not to everyone's taste.

I am not really good at conflict. I don't care for it much. I would rather just forfeit!

Being good at conflict will make your marriage better!

But anyway, I do apologize Pep if any comments I made were rude in any way.

I have no need for apologies from you, or BV, or anyone here. These are opinions we are discussing.... why apologize for opinions? If you say something to me that I don't like, I probably should pay attention to it ... and see if there is anything I can learn from your opinion. But, getting terribly hurt when one hears something not-so-flattering .... could also bee seen as a form of "manipulation". This does not allow free and honest discourse if I have to walk on eggshells so I don't hurt you with an opinion, or visa versa.

Feel free to tell me what you want to say.... how else could our opinions be helpful and relevant to each other if we were not honest?

I am getting to the point where I really just want to focus on recovery and not worry about opinions that I do not feel are helpful.

This is exactly what I think. We agree.

Now, please understand. You would have to know me. NCW would be standing with mouth agape right now.

Relying on a reflected sense of self works in one's youth, but must be disgarded once you want to practice "To thine own self be true."


Not very often in my life have I not cared about what people think of me. To my own detriment. So my feelings concerning people and their stances on this board are really a huge step forward for me! Not explaining it well, but I will strive for balance.

Actually, I think you explained it most excellently!

I don't want to not listen because I don't want to hear. But I will filter what I feel to be just emotional responses.

Yes.

Big step forward for an emotionally charged, strong-willed, stubborn, girl like myself. Thankfully, God has blessed me with a man who balances me very well. He happens to be as forgiving as a saint, too.

I'll bet he's no saint ~~~

Pep, I am sorry if I said anything that came across wrong.

Please, the next thing to do is to stop apologizing for honest opinions and the integrity to express yourself.

Pep

BV-

Ooooooh. I hope you won't go. I loved it when you kept posting Please post RAP. I thought it meant that you were worried about her.

I repeat (again) that I hope we can keep this thread alive. When a WS comes to MB, posts their feelings, and 44 people jump on them, tell them to straighten up, have NC with OP, and go back to their spouse, it is not helpful.

While it may be true, all it does is drive them off. I have seen WS after WS come here and be driven off.

We have an opportunity here to have a welcoming place for the WS, where we can gently bring them onto the board, and expose them to some things that will help them.

Dear BV,

I also wanted to comment with regards to comments that were made concerning JL. It is unfortunate, but because we are FFW's, we are now under a microscope as far as what we do and say. Where before the affair it would not have been as likely that people would think something "fishy" were going on, they now will. We are "marked" women. It stinks but it's just something we have to live with....one of the consequences of our actions, I suppose!

However, I think it was totally revolting that someone would speculate on such a thing publicly. And that is all it was, BV....speculation! I know how damaging that can be to a person's life and there's NO EXCUSE for making such reprehensible comments.
I am sorry that happened to you.

julie

believer,

IMO she HAS been getting "tons" of sound advice and loads of support and encouragement. Much more then most.
As to how she's using any of it...well, we all have our opinions.

As far as being "run off", I just don't see that at all.
In fact, (to my self) I refer to this thread (& its companions) as the "sensitivity" thread.
Maybe its just my perception.

Lastly, I could very well be getting posters mixed up here, but hasn't this "I'm taking my ball and going home" ../slash/ .. Somebody here beg me to stay scenario ....already been used in this situation???

Not trying to be difficult, ......but .....what the hey......

My apologies if I am mixing this part up with someone else's past action.
There are a lot of people and stories to keep straight.
Guess I'm just feeling a bit on the more cynical side today.

WEEEELLLLL....
BV's INTEGRITY has been attacked and her INTENTIONS have been called into question, based on what??? Some posts on a message board? Please don't reduce people to what you see only on this discussion forum....there is MUCH more to BV and others than you could possibly know....and for people to make presumptions based on this forum is ridiculous.
Part of what caused friction in MY marriage was my making assumptions and misinterpreting my husbands words and actions!

I am learning not to do that, and I am learning not to run when things get rough....key word being LEARNING! That is what BV and RAP and everyone else is doing, and it's largely gonna be by a process of trial and error!

Please, can we give BV a bit more credit here?

Onlywords

Top rope - good to see you again. I've always enjoyed your posts.

However look at the number of posts I have, and I am still not fully recovered. People have different rates, and styles of recovering. I think it was Brett that recovered in 144 posts.

Others of us, chat, and think, and question, and ask the same thing over and over. I am the type who is slow to make decisions. I like to mull it over, whine about it, etc.

So I relate to the folks here. The beauty of this board is you can read and post wherever you feel the most comfortable.

Let's let the WW's have someplace to post and feel comfortable.

And I HAVE seen lots of WS's leave here after just a few posts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:


We have an opportunity here to have a welcoming place for the WS, where we can gently bring them onto the board, and expose them to some things that will help them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In your opinion....

Explain what you mean by "gently".... describe gently.

What "things"..... should they be exposed to? Examples.

And "help them" what? Goals? Behaviors? What exactly do you mean?

I am certain you posted this for a purpose, but for me, this is too vague ... could you please elaborate?

Thanks

Pep

BV and Others,

I had posted earlier in response to what I have read covering the last day or so, it seems to have vanished into the ether. I will say that the board seems slow to respond.

First to BV, don't worry about the comments so much. Here I am accused of somehow being too close to women, and on another thread it is thought that I don't like women. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I guess it is all in how people read things.

Second, BV I have read MadMax's posts and many of those inbetween including Pep's post. I don't "know" MadMax well, but I do know Pep and respect her judgement highly. She is also very sensitive to addiction type issues.

My advice is to take both of those posts and realize that these people are NOT trying to hurt you. They sense something and they are trying to articulate it to you and warn you. Are they right? I don't know. One thing for sure is that talking to your H more than talking to us is a GOOD thing.

But, let's consider for a second the case that they are dead right. What are they warning you about?

You needed your H to be a "father figure" and he was, but that lessened the connection between you and surely reduced the sexual attraction on your part. You then have the OM who is older, your boss, and a man who people comfortably turn to for spiritual advice, "a father figure", and you have an affair with him. Then you come here and a man (me) offers advice and he is older as well, and you seem to the posters to be attaching to him. Finally, notice your perchant for drink right now (and realize Pep's experiences and sensitivity to addiction with these things).

Do you see a pattern here? It does not mean they are right, but we are using the fact that they maybe to discuss this. If this is so, then rightfully they are worried about YOU and your marriage.

So the first thing that IS true is that Pep and MadMax posted because they are concerned about you and the recovery of your marriage. That is a GOOD thing BV and I hope you realize it, even if you don't like the suggestions made.

Now back to the problem at hand, again supposing they are right, then their suggestion is to turn to your H, Mr. BV, more. Fact of the matter is, this is good advice whether what they say is true or not. But, let's say they are right, then it suggests that you need to discuss with your H or a counselor your need for a "father figure".

Your H wants to be your H, your friend, your lover, and he will do his best to protect you, but has been willing to provide what you need at his expense and that is to be a "father figure" for you. So, consider what this says.

It suggests that you may need more confidence in yourself, it means you need to understand that you can function without someone looking over you, except of course God. It suggests that as you get stronger, and you recover you need to be your H's W, not his child.

So BV, while I know you are "bummed" (another American saying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), you must realize that even advice you don't like should be thought about carefully, because it is being given to you by people who care enough to read this thread, and there may be a bit to truth in it, even if you don't think so. Or, perhaps, they are sensing something they cannot quite put their finger on.

Accept that these comments are meant in good faith, and weigh them carefully. You will continue to grow and learn from every one here and they will be influenced by you.

So think about this, talk with Mr. BV about this, and continue to learn. You will succeed.

God Bless,

JL

Believer,

My sex post was on this thread, waaaay back on page 9. Right Here

The other one you wanted was the Song Analogy

NCW

Ladies -

Hope you are all doing well, or as well as can be expected.

BV- Hope you will still post and work on recovery.

RAP - Sounds like you had a nice weekend with NC. You are making some progress.

onlywords - Your business sounds interesting. I hope you do well and make lots of money.

My WH called last night and said he wanted to come over and resolve things tonight. Then he called while I was still at work, and said since I wasn't home, that he would come over in a few days. Ho-hum, same old thing.

I really pray that you ladies will step up to the plate with your actions.

Love you all!

Hi all.

BV, if you are there, hugs. Love you much.

I am about to go to the gym. Small nonimportant thing, right? I don't know why I am posting. Maybe to just get it out and it won't bother me.

I am ready to leave. I am anxious, feeling like I will throw up, and having to choke back tears. Argh!

I don't know if it is guilt and i feel the whole world watching, or if there are just too many triggers associated with any gym.

I am too stubborn to give up yet. It just seems to be getting worse, not better.

Anyway, now that it is on paper so to speak, I can tear it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Prayers are appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sheesh. Prayer needed to go work out. What is up with that?

Blessings to all tonight,

RAP

RAP -

Blessing to you too. I don't know if it will help you or not. But I have started the ncwalker program in my mind, and that is "DON'T GO THERE!".

I was reading this weekend about how the mind likes to go over and over the same old stuff, and really doesn't like to think in new ways. So I have been having a horrible time not thinking and obsessing about WH.

So this weekend, whenever I thought about him, I told myself "DON'T GO THERE!" Then I started thinking about something else - my kids, the dog, the cat, the yard, my friends, and on and on.

It seems to really work. I am forcing my mind to think in a different way. I'll let you know how it works, but so far I am happier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Comments originally posted by Pepperband:
Self, I betcha she said those exact words to MM... "God sent you to me MM".
AND
In "Torn Assunder" ... it is discussed that in a co-church-member affair, it is often shared between lovers, "God brought us together for a reason".... in an attempt to quell the conscience of a Christian breaking her own vows.
AND
If BV says she never spoke these words or words like them, then I believe her.
But, it is NOT an unusual thing that happends between co-Christian adulterors.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep, although I understand the original concern of you and others that BV might have started to became overly dependant or attached to JL, it was however VERY absurd, inappropriate and disrespectful towards both JL and BV to put the interactions between them (on this OPEN discussion forum where BV have also shared all the posts OPENLY with her H), in the SAME category as two Christian people who are in the beginning of a secretive & adulterous A…

Pep, even the thought and suggestion of such a thing was TOTALLY inappropriate, disrespectful & disappointing, ESPECIALLY since you are a long-time poster who are viewed by some poster as a “high-profile” member… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You know what? I can’t help to wonder how your and other’s reaction would be and if you would make the same inappropriate & disrespectfull suggestions, assumptions & accusations about BV’s interactions and call out for help from JL if she was a BETRAYED spouse in stead of a FORMER wayward spouse… I doubt that... The reason saying this? I remember how some BW’s MANY times in the past continuously and repetatively called out the help from a specific BH on the In Recovery board, but no one ever complained or said anything about that… Interesting, isn’t it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Also, interesting how MANY posters in the past (including me) have posted on how these forums and website and people was a Godsend to them in their hour of need, but when BV posted that exact same words, you AUTOMATICALLY assumed she was exclusively talking about JL…that only HE was a Godsend to her on this forum.

BV, I hope you will still post. Please don’t leave permanently… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So many people here care about you.

Suzet

<small>[ July 27, 2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

I haven't read this post for a while. I had no idea it had got like this.

I hope the "thought police" are happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Jenny

RAP,

Just wanted to check in and see how you made out last night. You said that it seems to be getting worse instead of better....I felt that way for a time, too. In the beginning, the pain is there almost constantly. As time goes on, it gets to where the pain seems to come in waves, like at the seashore, and the pain engulfs you once again, but then it subsides and you can breathe again. It will be that way for a while, and gradually the waves will get smaller and smaller. It kind of reminds me of a condition in your body that is causing you pain, and the only way to get rid of the pain is by surgery, but that makes the pain worse for a while.
But it has to be done or you will never be totally free of it.

I don't know about you, but I'm really sad about BV. I read other posts and stuff, but I didn't want to divide myself too much...gets too confusing, so I pretty much kept to you and BV. Now there's a big hole here without her. I didn't realize how attached I have become to the two of you.

I totally understand her decision, though...and I know she stuck it out here a lot longer than I would have!

Take care,

Julie

JL,

Since we're "speculating" here, it wouldn't be such a stretch to say that some of the people on this board maybe have a "need" to set other people straight, and maybe not a stretch to say maybe you have a "need" to BE a "father figure".

Regards,

Onlywords

Morning ladies. Hope you are all moving forward in your struggle. I am feeling better and better each day, with NC's "Don't go there" in my brain.

My brain is starting to think of the future, and not the past. It feels great.

Have a wonderful day, ladies, and keep on trying for the Proverbs31 woman.

Dear Onlywords,

thanks for your reply about the broken vessel, I didn't know the verse and it is very clear to me now. Beautiful verse.

I'm sorry things escalated here. I re-read some of the posts here, including my own, and realised how easily we can all get triggered.

I have been thinking about this a lot and will be posting my "Neutral Zone Theory" soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

If you are reading this BV (I know it's hard to resist) then know that I mean you no harm and that I hope you haven't read my post that way.

Onlywords

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Since we're "speculating" here, it wouldn't be such a stretch to say that some of the people on this board maybe have a "need" to set other people straight, and maybe not a stretch to say maybe you have a "need" to BE a "father figure".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps you are right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So that may mean I am NOT good for BV as was suggested by MadMax and Pep.

It is a thought to ponder isn't it?

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Absolutely...I just wonder why they didn't come at the suggestion from THAT angle.

I wonder, do the ends EVER justify the means?

Thanks for your response.

Onlywords