SerendipiT -


That was really good, what you wrote, and the way you worded it, I understand! Thanks so MUCH for that! I like The Message version of the Bible, tooo....should be reading it more, huh? I have some Joyce Meyer books and they are really great...she's a down-to-earth lady, and I'll tell you, I'm a lot more willing to listen to someone who has gone through HELL and back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Looking forward to this thread A LOT!!!

God Bless everyone!

Julie

Hey, I think you rank right up there with NC in the writing abilities department! You have a very cool, easy style. I like to write too...guess I have some standards now to look up too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sheesh. Thanks for the compliments. It is a gift from God, and thankfully I get to use it all the time.

I keep talking about writing that book...maybe I should actually do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SerendipiT -


Yes! Write that book! I'll be the first to buy a copy!

I'm hoping NCWalker writes one called

"How to win Friends and Influence People with a Half Dozen Fish!"


By the way, NC.....RH brought home half of a half dozen fish Thursday evening.....no kidding! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Life is good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Julie

onlywords,

Did you see the thread RH started the night he brought home your gift of fish?

I put the link at the bottom.

Your husband sounds about as goofy as mine.

We sure are blessed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Pam

half dozen fish...

Hi all,

OK. This is a big post. I kind of feel like my testimony needs to go here so you all will understand where I am coming from. So I am posting two posts. This is going to be my testimony and right after it will be *MY* answer to CHackler’s question. If you are a Spirit Filled Christian and KNOW what that means, you can probably skip this and just read my next post. You won’t hurt my feelings. Much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OK. Here is what I am going to try and answer, this question from CHackler:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what was I saying fish man? Oh yah, tilling the fruit in me. I see I need work in this area so where do I get started? Do you have any bible verses you can suggest?? It's more than reading the bible though, thoughts and actions as well. What says you???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CH, I am SO glad you are a Christian.

DipiT – you go wit YOUR bad self. It is the same as MY bad self, the Spirit. Darling, you said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> (now don't think I am getting "weird Christian" on you),</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ain’t no such thing! RAP, cover your ears (eyes?) because I AM going to get “weird Christian” on all of you.

I have this sense that this thread has now picked up a little bit of a following. And I fear my answer may be confusing as this site is a medley of different Christians, different faiths even and also non-believers. For you to understand my answer, I think, you are going to need to see how NCWalker “sees” things. For some of you, I don’t think you are going to see this and you will be in my prayers. What I am going to tell you is NCWalker’s views on faith, on how God moves. Scriptures will come later, first comes a story.

I say this sincerely, if you want what I have, post back to me on this thread. I WILL pray for you. If you don’t want what I have, or don’t agree with me, I will STILL pray for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do not want to start a theological argument over this. Not the purpose of this thread, not the purpose of this board. CHackler asked “What says me” and this is what me says.

On to the story…

=================

I am a pretty big music lover. I actually enjoy heavy-metal a good bit. I want to tell you about the most amazing concert I was every at. It was put on by an obscure, local band name “Ain-Chent of Daze.”

Now this band is pretty obscure. I am sure you heard some of their songs, maybe on a radio, maybe from a friend, but you probably didn’t know it was them. They dabble in other kinds of music besides metal, so they have probably churned out a song or two that you like.

They put on this concert and people started coming to it. Some heard about it on the radio, some from friends, and some just noticed the concert hall and came out of curiosity.

The concert hall was AMAZING. It could hold an enormous amount of people. It was all done in glass, so you could see what was going on inside, but you couldn’t hear anything from the outside. You just saw all the people inside dancing and having fun. People were coming from all directions to this spectacle. Some, like me, tried to get in, others just watched from the hillside. Some of them liked what they saw, but would not get in the line at the door. Probably didn’t want to be seen by their neighbors or didn’t have the money for a ticket. Others did not like what they saw, shook their heads and walked away.

I stood in line waiting to get in. The line seemed to move slow and many people left, frustrated. When I got to the door, my first surprise was that “Ain-Chent of Daze” was giving a FREE concert. I just walked right through the front door into the lobby. Once in the lobby, I could hear the band playing. The music was great, but it was that sort of muted sound. Like when your neighbor in your apartment has HIS radio up loud. You can tell it’s music, you can tell if you like it, but you can’t really hear it.

There were lots of people in the lobby. They had refreshments. People were talking and mingling, some dancing, everyone was having a great time. I couldn’t wait to hear the music, so I didn’t linger long in the lobby. I rushed the inner door to hear the music.

Whoa! Once I got in the concert hall, everything changed. I mean I had heard their songs before and had a few CDs, but they were MUCH better LIVE! I heard things in their music I have never heard before. Everyone was having a great time. It was one of those concerts with universal appeal. People from all walks of life were dancing and shouting and trying to get to the stage.

The stage. The music had such a draw to get close to the stage. I mean I wanted to be in the front row. There were no seats, it was an open floor with everyone standing. And the press of the crowd was to get to the stage. So we were all trying to get there. Sometimes I tried shoving my way through, but that didn’t work. I kind of angered those around me and found that the harder I tried to push my way in, the farther and farther back I drifted. If I stopped trying to get to the stage, I still drifted back as those around me moved forward. All this time this great dance was going on and people were shouting and singing with the music. But once I stopped trying fight the flow, I found I would drift closer to the stage. It was weird. If I let those around me move closer, I got closer with them. The movement was definitely to the stage, but if I tried to move at a different pace, I would always move farther. It was just the way the rhythm of the dancing worked.

The closer we got to the stage, the more in tune I became with the fans around me. The more our dance unified. This concert went on for hours and hours. Some of us would go back to the lobby to go to the bathroom, or get a drink. But everyone was glad when they came back to the concert hall.

I could see outside this glass concert hall to the people on the hills outside looking in and wanted them to join me. I called to them and they did not hear. Some of them saw how much fun we were having and came in and joined us. It made the concert all the more rewarding. I can’t really explain why, it was one of those situations made better by sharing. Some on the outside just wouldn’t budge, no matter how hard we danced.

This concert kept going and kept going. My muscles ached from the dancing and I was dripping sweat. Sometimes it made me want to go back outside for a break, but if I gave my attention to the music it swept me back up and I forgot my discomfort. It was entrancing. It was like the music actually revitalized me and gave me strength.

Eventually, it ended as all good things do. Some people were glad it was over, some people were sad. But EVERYONE there, even the people who never left the lobby, thought it was an experience of a lifetime.

==================

So that’s it. My “picture” of how God actually moves. The concert hall and the song is NOT heaven. It is a picture of a SPIRIT FILLED Christian life. What is that? I can’t explain it. One of my favorite songs is by the “Newsboys” called “Spirit Thing.” The chorus goes:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It’s just a Spirit thing, it’s just a holy nudge,
It’s like a circuit judge in the brain.

It’s just a Spirit thing, it’s here to guide my heart,
It’s just a little hard to explain.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hopefully my picture explains it. The people outside the auditorium are the “unsaved.” Those who have not received the water baptism of repentance and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

That baptism, that statement, is the entrance to the lobby. Once in, your in, and you are going to heaven.

The entrance to the concert hall is the fire baptism, or baptism in the Holy Spirit. That is when you really here the music.

Being in the concert is just living life on this earth in God’s will. The end of the concert is your death. If you made it in the building, you go to heaven. Simple as that.

A couple of points to let you know a little more how I believe:
- Some never left the lobby, those are the folks who don’t believe in the fire baptism. Still going to heaven, but not fully walking in God’s will.
- The people in the concert could see those outside the hall and wanted them to come in, but could not call to them. Those outside were enticed in by SEEING the dance and fun those inside were having. That is the Great Commission. To “save” others. But it is BEST DONE by action – let your light shine, so that others may see your good deeds.
- There was always motion, in the lobby, towards the stage and away. That is our “spiritual walk” AFTER the baptisms. The closer to the stage, the closer to the Spirit. Some even left the hall to go to the lobby. The ups and downs we all go through.
- The “go with the flow” to get to the stage is God’s timing. When we are in God’s timing, motion to the stage is effortless, easy. When we fight God’s timing, either to go faster OR slower, we actually slow the progress to get closer to God.
- Getting tired at the concert is my flesh being weak. I can succumb to the weakness and return to the lobby, or focus on the Spirit and let the “music” refresh me.
- Notice the doors. There is only one into the lobby and one into the concert hall. But there are MANY paths to the doors. Everyone’s spiritual experience tends to be unique, but they do culminate in two pivotal events.
- Notice some stay in the lobby before they enter the concert hall. My fire baptism came at the same time as my acceptance of my Savior. Like a thunderclap. I went right through the lobby. Others do not. Some linger in the lobby for some time before the fire baptism.

Go back and read the story again, so you understand my picture.

===========

Now let’s talk about Satan. Where was Satan in all of this? He was at the door, frustrating the people trying to get in. He was also IN THE CONCERT HALL trying to get the people to go to the stage at their own pace and thus move away.

Let’s talk about Satan a minute. Satan is AWESOME. Does that raise the hackles on the back of your neck? It should, not because I am saying it, it almost sounds like I am speaking against God. It should because it is true. Look up the word in a dictionary. Look up the word “awe” while you are at it. Satan is a FALLEN ANGEL. He IS FINITE, only God is infinite, but his power is such that he may as well be infinite when you consider us as creatures of flesh. Don’t like me saying that? Tough. Better believe it. It is funny how many people believe in God, but have trouble believing in the enemy.

Know what else? Satan is HAPPY about how we generally portray him. Red suit, horns, pitch fork, slimy, whatever. His greatest weapon is DECEPTION. My pastor made a profound statement. He said “Satan will GIVE us something GOOD to keep us from the BEST.” Let that sink in.

You are all (or most) here on this board due to an affair. I would ask the FWS to be honest with themselves – was the affair BAD? I mean did it FEEL bad? Or did it meet a need. I know your answer already, because if AFFAIR = PAIN you WOULD NOT HAVE DONE IT. AFFAIR = PLEASURE, you got something GOOD. And it kept you from the BEST – a healthy marriage ordained by God.

If you don’t think Satan is awesome, you are SERIOUSLY underestimating your adversary and the NEED for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Am I getting through to you with that? I hope so. If I am not I will pray for you.

Satan WILL come after you the closer you get to the Lord. He is FINITE remember? He has to pick and choose his targets carefully. He is FINITE. He doesn’t worry about those outside the concert hall, he is most worried about those in line. He doesn’t want them to get in. He is also worried about those inside. He wants them as FAR from the stage as possible. So it looks like they are not having fun. Remember the people outside looking in? He wants the concert to appear BORING to them. Salvation does not mean freedom from the influences of the enemy, he will still try and influence you AFTERWARDS and “beat down” your walk.


So why do we need the Fire Baptism? Why the Holy Spirit?

We are all made in the image of God. God is also 3 in 1. Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Spirit. So we are also 3 in 1.

What are OUR parts?

PART 1
Like the Son, we are flesh. This is where we are tempted. This is our emotional response to stimulus, and believe me Satan can stimulate us. He is the tempter. Funny thing though, God does NOT tempt us. He leads us by the Spirit. Reason one why we need it.

PART 2
Like the Father, we have will. God WILLED the earth into existence. The Father is WILL. It is our soul so to speak. It is where we make our CHOICES based on what our flesh (emotions and temptations and feelings) and our spirit tells us.

PART 3
Like the Holy Spirit, we have a spirit in us. Or room for one.

I want you to think about this carefully, if you have NOT received the fire baptism of the Holy Spirit, then there are two possible conditions.

1 - You either have no piece, or gift, of the Holy Spirit, God’s spirit. An empty space, as it were.
2 – You have a spirit there, and it isn’t from God. Hmmm.

Is that a scary thought to you? It should be. It gives me nightmares to consider how I USED to be.

You know how the Bible says that when two witness on a matter it is settled, and a cord of three strands is not easily broken? THAT is why you need the Holy Spirit.

Satan will tempt and influence your flesh. Not all the time, he is finite. Also the reason why the unsaved do GOOD deeds as well. We are not continually plagued by Satan to do evil, he is finite. But he will do it. What happens then?

Well you have this flesh telling you to do evil. What about your soul? You can be ”raised right” as the term is used, Christian or not. I mean taught what most would consider right from wrong. Your WILL CAN resist temptation out of the sense of doing good. But it is a one to one fight. Sometimes your will wins, sometimes your flesh. What if you have the Holy Spirit through the fire baptism? When your WILL CHOOSES the Godly way, and your infilling of the Holy Spirit ALWAYS chooses the Godly way, you have the second witness, the second cord, AND THE MATTER IS SETTLED.

It is kind of like your flesh votes BAD, the Spirit votes GOOD and your soul breaks the tie. That is your free-will, your choice. That is what HONORS God.

See why it is important?

It is even critical in interpreting the Bible. How much do you believe in the Bible? All of it, or only what you choose? Do you believe John 3:16? How about John 1:1? The Word being Flesh? Do you want to know right from wrong? Then KNOW the Bible. But that is not enough. It is only the FIRST cord. Ever see how people interpret the Bible different ways? One cord does not settle the matter. If you have received the fire baptism, THAT is your second cord. Know the Bible and pray to Spirit about what you have read or been told. You will get confirmation from the Spirit and THAT is your second cord. The matter is settled.

See why it is important?

=================

OK. Enough of NCWalker proselytizing. Let’s take a look at a few scriptures. To provoke a little thinking. Again, I do not want to get into a theological argument here. CHackler asked “what says me” and THIS is what I says. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Matthew 3
11"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">John’s water baptism is repentance. What is repentance? Salvation from sin. What is Jesus? The SAVIOR. John’s baptism is the baptism of the Savior. Accepting him as Lord and Savior in life. The born again Christian. So if that is it, what is the Holy Spirit and fire baptism John is talking about here?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Matthew 4
The Temptation of Jesus
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Three points here: The Spirit had to ALLOW Jesus to be tempted. Yes he was flesh, but he was also divine. Unfortunately for us, our flesh is not divine so Satan can tempt us at will. Second point, remember that Jesus fasted. The purpose of this is to HUMBLE your flesh. To MASTER your flesh by weakening it. Remember the voting thing above? It is EASIER if you have mastered your flesh. Then the vote of the flesh doesn’t sound so clear to the soul. The third point is the temptation. Look at the finality of these temptations. Jesus was subjected to EXTREME temptation. A demonstration that the Spirit can OVERCOME the flesh if we let it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Acts 2
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here we go again. Another distinction between the baptism of salvation and the baptism of the spirit. From Acts, which should probably be title “Acts of the Holy Spirit” because that is what it really is. (Funny aside: NCWalker was RAISED Catholic. Left the faith. Practiced Buddhism for a while. Then was led to a Spirit filled Christian life of joy by RAP (my wife). I remember Catholic school. Isn’t it funny how they AVOID Acts? It is like this secret they don’t want you to know. Sorry if I offend any Catholics with that. My poor grandma is rolling over in her grave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Acts 19
Paul in Ephesus
1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am seeing a pattern here. Are you? Hope so.


OK. Enough. That is how I believe. I would pose this to you. If you are NOT THERE or all this sounds foreign, you are not going to fully understand my answer to CHackler’s question. If you DO NOT have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are going to be seriously disadvantaged.

I’m sorry if that bothers you, it is the way I believe. And believe me, if you knew me BEFORE I received this baptism, I would be the LAST person you would have thought would be saying this. I am EXTREMELY logical and scientifically driven. Our beloved JL is a physicist. I posted a thread to him titled “Calabai-Yau Space” and it got his attention. It is an OBSCURE subject of study in physics. I know my science. Well. And you know what? The MORE I learn the MORE it convinces me there IS a Creator.

My suggestion. If you are not going to a church that is Spirit filled you are missing out. You are either outside the concert hall or in the lobby and you are missing out. How do you tell if that is your church? (Gritting my teeth to get blasted for this, but to me the TRUTH so blast away)
- ALIVE praise and worship that gets your blood pumping, trash the stultifying hymnals, LIVE and PRAISE your LIVING God.
- Acvtive works with the GIFTS of the Spirit (not the Fruits, the GIFTS). I’m talking prophesy, healing, discernment of spirits. If these terms are not EMBRACED by your pastor, find another church. If you want to read about them, see Rom 12:6-8 and 1 CO 12.
- Speaking in tongues. Will be going on if the Spirit is active in you. Read about this in 1 CO 14.

Now I think I can answer the question.

It’s Just a Spirit Thing,

NCWalker

Whew. Glad to get that off my chest. Felt great. Sorry if I have lost any respect from any of you. My hope is more that I have quickened your hearts.

OK CHackler, you ready?

Your question:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what was I saying fish man? Oh yah, tilling the fruit in me. I see I need work in this area so where do I get started? Do you have any bible verses you can suggest?? It's more than reading the bible though, thoughts and actions as well. What says you???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well. The Fruits are found in

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Galatians 5
Life by the Spirit
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A person with a fully functioning Spirit will exhibit these virtues in verse 22. Remember the voting thing? Your Spirit will DRAW you to do this. So why isn’t it easy? If your WILL (soul, intellect, etc.) knows this by memorizing this verse and the meaning of the Fruits, isn’t that the second cord? Why isn’t the matter settled? C’mon NCWalker, you just told us it was that easy!

Sorry. It is that SIMPLE. Ain’t easy. See, your will exists in your brain which is part of your flesh. Your will operates by firing off your FLESHLY neurons in complicated patterns. That is one of the draws of the flesh on the WILL. To do things as you have always done. To be what you saw growing up. That is why bad habits are hard to break and good habits are hard to start.

Remember the fasting thing in the post above? That is why you flesh has to be humbled, trained as it were. See, your flesh is CONNECTED directly to your brain. So it’s voice tends to be a lot LOUDER to your WILL then the Spirits.

Look what believer said to RAP a few posts up:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> RAP - This is a great thread. I put the fruit of the spirit list on my
refrigerator. Got a lot of work to do in that area.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CH, where are the Fruits in your life? They are in believer’s face, or at least on her fridge. You have to saturate yourself with these things. You cannot hear the message on Sunday, say that was nice, and hear the next one on the next Sunday.

I do pretty well at it, and I make mistakes (or move away from the stage in my concert analogy).

Do you know who Patty Hearst is? Why is brainwashing a bad thing? It is a tool, for good or evil. It is conditioning the flesh. THAT is what you have to do. CONDITION the flesh.

Here are some things to do, how to get the Word in your face:
- Put them up where you can see them, like believer does. The more drastic your steps, the quicker your progress. How AFRAID would you be to paint the Fruits on your bedroom wall? Why would you be AFRAID to do that? If you felt you needed it for you LIFE would you do it? You just might.
- I keep a list of quotes I like, virtues, stuff like that in my notebook that I carry with me. Whenever I am in a meeting that is slow moving, or waiting somewhere, I pull out this list and work on memorizing them. I change it and update it as my needs change. I try and look at it every day and MASTER my flesh. I can call them up when I need them to modify my behavior. Why do you swear when you mash your thumb? You have conditioned yourself to do so.
- I keep several pictures of my darling RAP in a little folder by my nightstand. Just the cheap little pocket that comes from the photo developer. Nothing special. I have scraps of paper in this little folder that I jot down notes on. These are things I pray over. People who need prayer, things that annoy RAP that I am trying to change (like talking with my mouth full as well as mastering anger, God will help with the little and the big). I pray over these lists every night before I go to bed.
- I read the equivalent Proverb every (actually most) days. If it is the 5th, I read Proverbs 5. OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.
- Have your read “7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Covey? Do that. Apply it to the spiritual things.
- Have you ever tried fasting and concentrating on the Spirit, PRAYING in the Spirit? Try it. I have actually done that before and felt the power of God flow out of me in a healing miracle. It was amazing.

Let me pull out another Scripture for you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2 Peter 1
Making One's Calling and Election Sure
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Look at 5-7: It goes faith, goodness, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, love.

See the order? This probably the most questionable thing I am going to tell you, so I probably should not say it. You need to check YOUR spirit on this to see if it speaks to you as it does to me.

Imagine a Hotwheels Track made out of 8 strips. From left to right, these words are written on the strips in this order. The left side represents out of the Spirit, or farther from the stage in my concert. The right side is closer to the stage. This track is on the floor with a Hotwheels car (that doesn’t roll well, but still rolls, you know the kind – bent axles full of carpet fuzz and peanut butter from sticky kid fingers). I give you a bunch of blocks and I want you to raise up this track so it is off the floor 1 foot with the ground. That’s your task. But the car CAN NOT roll to the left. (Away from the stage, or away from a life enriched by the Spirit). If it rolls to the left, you have backslid. Got it? IMVHO, you can raise first piece all the way, then move to the next, or you can work them up as you go. But if you get a piece to the right HIGHER than one to the left, you are going to backslide. See? I think that is what happens to some of the greats when they fall from grace. Jim Bakker comes to mind.

Remember
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1 Corinthians 13:13
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The end-game is love. The greatest commandment. The Holy Grail of the spiritual walk. See the path to it?

So the key is to get the Word IN YOUR FACE. You have to remember that your flesh and will have been trained by the WORLD until you receive the fire baptism. Then your WILL only BEGINS to be trained by the Spirit. You continue to train it for the rest of your life.

If there was one thing I could say to you, if there was a “mantra” to take away from all this, it would be:

Help your Spirit to help your will.

EXERCISE your FAITH that this will work. It WILL. I promise you. And even better, God promises you. It is in the Bible.

Be of good heart in this. Remember:

FAITH is not measured in your results, but when you quit.

So you may have backslid a bit, and lost some fruit. I do too. Did you quit?

I know I have been going on a bit here, but let me say one more thing. A warning, really. A warning about the insidiousness of the enemy. I will pull a piece from the quote above and repeat it here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Galatians 5
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously a list of what NOT to do. But I want you to consider idolatry. What exactly is idolatry? You ought to do a study on idolatry. We tend to think of people dancing before the golden calf in the old “Ten Commandments” flick or perhaps leis and grass skirts and a Hawaiian Tiki god. Here is the definition from Webster’s

Main Entry: idol•a•try
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tries
1 : the worship of a physical object as a god
2 : immoderate attachment or devotion to something

Take a look at definition 2 REAL close. Then ask yourself, CHackler? What are YOUR idols? What do YOU choose over time with God?
- How about this board?
- How about television?
- Books?
- Video games?
When you ESCAPE, where do you ESCAPE? Be very careful about your idols. I’m not saying live like a hermit, I am saying be AWARE of what your idols are.

Try something for me, and tell me how it goes. I want you to go on a television fast for ONE WEEK. Get your family on board. Explain to them about idolatry and say you want to try something for only ONE WEEK. Then UNPLUG the TVs and put them in the garage. REMOVE the temptation to vegetate. Leaving them off is not good enough, the temptation to watch for just a bit is strong. Years ago, I got MOST of my church to do this in the same week. It was amazing. You would not believe how much time you devote to the “one-eyed demon” and how much time it takes away from each other until you try this.

Throw a Frisbee. Take a walk. Play cards or a board game. Work on a puzzle. Talk to each other. Replace that idol with your family. Try it for one week and let me know what happens. I’ll smack you with another fish if you don’t.

I can’t say it LOUD enough to you IT’S JUST A SPIRIT THING!

The Fish Man (think I found my signature, whadda ya think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

NCWalker

Dude.

NC...sounds like you and I found the same, "weird Christian," annointed, gifts of the spirit, freaky, moving, knock you on your butt, give you goose bumps when you feel it, see people get healed, see hurting get peace, charismatic church.

I was a cradle Christian. Grew up in the lobby. Have never heard about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And there are, as you so aptly demonstrated, two Baptisms.

Then I went to visit my church. The "weird Christians" were holding up their hands when they sang, speaking in tongues, kept talking all the time about the spirit, the spirit, the spirit. As I was walking out of the service, decided I would never go there again, offended by their lack of "reverence," I found myself at the door face to face with the pastor. He was shaking the person in front of me's hand, and then, it ws my turn, so he stopped to focus on me. He made contact with me, and seemed to look right into my soul. He started to shake my hand, then I noticed he was mumuring a prayer under his breath. He pulled me in a little closer and said lowly so only I could hear "Sister. I know you are hurting. I know you do not have peace. I will pray that you may know our God fully." In that second, this, "I've got it together, been a Christian all my life." girl, started to cry. He saw it. Saw right through the act. And he still does. I have seen members of my church family cry like babies, or dance in celebration, marveling at the FULL power of God.

And it is just like Joyce Myer is saying all the time. You can do enough to guarantee salvation, but God wants more than that for you.

As a parent, we can want out kids to be healthy, learn a skill, and get jobs one day. But we love them! We really WANT for them to find a passion. To have ALL that live has to offer.

Don't we think our Father wants the same for us?

He wants our salvation. He wants us there with Him. But in addition to that, He wants us to be able to have victory NOW. And that is where the Holy Spirit comes in.

The Holy Spirit is a gentleman. He will not come and take over and light a fire under your life un-invited. So, simply ask Him. And you will not have a thunderbolt clap outof the sky, necessarily, but, you will notice a change in your life.

And the Spirit needs something to work with, some way to communicate with you. That is where the bible comes in. The bible came alive after I stopped judging the freaky Christians at my church, and joined them, by inviting in the spirit. The bible would make sense, and almost always whatever I was reading DIRECTLY CORRELATED TO WHAT I WAS EXPERIENCING AT THAT MOMENT. How do you explain that? I had been reading the BOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRING thing since I was born, practically, and now, now it is suddenly interesting???

I started watching Joyce Myers on Christian Television network. And her program would tickle me, and ALMOST ALWAYS HAVE SOMETHING DIRECTLY TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS EXPERIENCING AT THAT MOMENT. Coincidence, you decide.

I started attending church every time they opened the doors. They were having a cookout, there, service, there, shoot, a clean up party, there. And ALMOST ALWAYS, I WOULD HEAR SOMETHING THAT DIRECTLY RELATED TO MY SITUATION.

That is when I noticed how the Spirit works. I would be in the car, praising God, and would think of something heavy on my heart. I would say a quick prayer, and ask the Holy Spirit to lead me. Then, almost instantaneously, I would read, hear, or see something that was biblically supported, that would directly tie into my question or need.

Now, I need to confess something, NC and friends.

I've walked back out into the lobby. I noticed that my marriage was not going to work, my WH is in total rebellion. I prayed for God to heal it. And am waiting to hear my favorite song, WH and I's favorite song, at the concert, and waiting and waiting and hurting and waiting, and it is still not coming on. And I finally said, to heck with it. I got mad at the Musician. Come on. I have been a fan a long time. So I made my way out into the lobby. I am waiting in the lobby to see if I hear the first couple measures of the tune before heading back into the REAL show. And it is lonelier out here. And the music I do kinda hear is muffled. And I have been in the main concert hall, seen my fellow concert goers, gone right up to the stage, and loved every minute of it...even though that whole time, the music was never my song. And I long to go back in...but what if He never plays my song again?

NC...you got it man. Never let it go. RAP, appreciate this priest of your house that God has ordained. You go girl!

SerendipiT,

WHOOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOO!

Don't you love the "weird Christians?"

My heart aches for you in the "lobby" but I am also rejoicing becuase you miss the "concert hall."

Hold on sister, you are going on my prayer list tonight! In fact, right now! Soon as I am done typing.

You come back from the lobby whenever you are ready. That is the beauty.

You listen to the Song - EVERY song the musician plays is YOUR song. My song too! The ole Nasty Man has just plugged up your ears some.

You get that flesh in line and I'll sing just for you and you come back and we'll sing and dance for everyone.

IT JUST A SPIRIT THING!!!

WOOOOOO HOOOOOO HOOOOOO

Man it feels GREAT to let that OUT!

NCWalker

Hi all!

I have a lot of reading to do and the same migraine from last night. I probably won't be reading all this until later, when I can focus better. I hope you don't mind.

NC and Diptique -

Hooray for us wacky weird Christians!!!

CH,

I am sitting here with RAP just talking. She is really identifying with where you are at. And she is goofy. Ouch. Just got a punch on the arm.

We are commenting on this advice when you are in pain.

Easy to write, easy to hear or read, easy to (RAP quit punching ME!!!) agree with. Hard as heck to OWN.

Keep it in your face. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Which of course leads me to responding to Mackrel Man, or would you prefer Fish Face, Trustworthy Tuna, or the Courageous Cod??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My preference would be the "eclectic eel." How's that for clever?

RAP says the "gregarious geek." Honey, a "geek" isn't a FISH.

She is now trying to save face with "geeky grouper." Poor, poor, poor. OUCH. Stop punching me.

NCWalker

NCW: Pray for me to understand this thread. It looks good, but when I got done reading it, I wasn't sure what I just read. The only thing I think I got from it was that you go to a Praise and Worship Church?

Right after dday, I went with my best friend to his church. It was a P/W Church. I felt so out of place and thought I could never go here. I went back the next week with the W and 2 of the 3 kids, but we haven't gone back since. It had this strange, loving draw to it, but we were so uncomfortable (from the "weird christians") that we haven't been able to go back yet.

This is going to be one of those threads for me that requires further digestion (and no not the fish-its 3 days old now.)

<small>[ July 17, 2004, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]</small>

NC - I just got home from a concert and came to check this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm a weird Christian too!

RH -

I don't think there is any problem with not going to a p/w church. I don't go to one because I feel out of place... For one thing, I can't sing - at all. Another thing, well it's just not me. Doesn't mean I'm wrong, doesn't mean they are wrong. We all have our way of praising and worshiping the Lord.

I go to a baptist church but I am more concerned with my relationship with God than my church title. I am not one for titles, I find them limiting, don't you think?

Day 4 of my migraine. Again, I probably won't be on until later, probably won't read and digest anything until later as well.

Hope everyone has a wonderful day...


BTW - I still want to know kind of why Pep asked me that question earlier and what ARK thinks of my reply.....

Chackler - Don't they have some kind of shots for a migraine? Sorry you are feeling so bad.

Shots don't work, drugs don't work, acupunture and massage therapy doesn't work.

I just have to be complicated you know!!

I have tension headaches that turn into migraines so when the hormones are a running (ladies you know what I mean) then the headaches start in. Mine is kind of easing up now so we are headed to the grocery store before it gets too hot.

RH and others,

Guess I couldn’t expect to write that much and not get a few comments. RAP even mentioned the point about the churches. I Feel I need to clarify.

I am in no way saying that if you don’t go to a church like that, you are missing out, or it is a bad church, or whatever. A selection of a church is a personal thing. For example:

- We have gone to churches where we (the adults) were not “fed” because the children’s ministry was so strong and our children were.
- We have gone to churches that had great praise and worship and only a light message (no “iron sharpening iron”) because we felt at the time it was what we needed.
- We have gone to churches that don’t praise and worship well, but have those piercing sermons that promote the healthy self-examination.
- We currently go to one that has the P&W and good sermons, but lacks a bit in the children’s ministry.

So I myself have been in churches that were more like the “lobby” in my analogy than the “concert hall” AFTER my fire baptism because it was growing me in another area. It is a choice based on where YOU are and what your family needs to concentrate on at the time. It is a simple matter of concentrating on the parts that need work. ANOTHER reason why you need the fire baptism, it will confirm things like that to you.

My point is this, if I came to visit you wherever you are living and you said “NCW, I hear what you are saying. I want this fire baptism and feel the REAL presence of the Spirit in my life. Am I going to get it where I am at (at my church)?” I would go to your church with you and would look for these things:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- ALIVE praise and worship that gets your blood pumping, trash the stultifying hymnals, LIVE and PRAISE your LIVING God.
- Acvtive works with the GIFTS of the Spirit (not the Fruits, the GIFTS). I’m talking prophesy, healing, discernment of spirits. If these terms are not EMBRACED by your pastor, find another church. If you want to read about them, see Rom 12:6-8 and 1 CO 12.
- Speaking in tongues. Will be going on if the Spirit is active in you. Read about this in 1 CO 14.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because it has been my experience that the likelihood of you receiving the fire baptism would be HIGHER in a church like that. I have seen it happen more often in churches like that.

And that is really moot, because if I were actually IN your town and went to your church, I could tell RIGHT AWAY if your church was dead, or asleep, to the workings of the Spirit. Why? I have it and Spirit “knows” Spirit. An elder from a previous church told me that. She talked about how it is weird that an alcoholic or a drug user can “find” someone to hook up with in a new town in a very short period of time. I mean, if I moved to Denver, CO (I have never been there) and you told me to run out and get some heroin or crack, I would have no idea where to go or who to see. It would probably take me some time to find someone in the town I live in and KNOW. But if I were a heroin addict, I bet I COULD get a fix in Denver within a half-day of being there. Spirit knows spirit.

Since I CAN’T go to any of your churches with you, I listed some things I would look for without the benefit of the Spirit to tell me. With only the intent of getting you somewhere where your own likelihood of a fire baptism increases. Not to say it has to happen in church. I did not receive mine in a church at all.

RH – you said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right after dday, I went with my best friend to his church. It was a P/W Church. I felt so out of place and thought I could never go here. I went back the next week with the W and 2 of the 3 kids, but we haven't gone back since. It had this strange, loving draw to it, but we were so uncomfortable (from the "weird christians") that we haven't been able to go back yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like you FOUND a church. (Geez. I hope you don’t all think I am down here in the south with one of those weird sects with the rattlesnakes and all that. Then again, if the Lord leads…. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I know EXACTLY what you are feeling. RAP took me to a church like that after I had REJECTED GOD entirely. Before we were married. It wasn’t even in a church, they had rented a bay in a dang strip mall and had just pulled out folding chairs. The whole time I am in there I am thinking “What a load of cr@p THIS is.” Raised Catholic, remember. Ceremony, ceremony, CEREMONY. I felt UNCOMFORTABLE. I felt like I DID NOT FIT IN. I felt like an outsider and everyone knew it. No one pointed fingers, or anything like that. Then the pastor singled me out and gave me a word. I thought I was going to DIE from embarrassment then I was going to KILL HIM NEXT for thinking he had the GALL to single ME out. (I deal with pride a lot, can you tell? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). Strange. He KNEW how I would respond. He KNEW EXACTLY the words to say. He KNEW what would get NCW to respond. That’s what he did. And he didn’t know, the Spirit did and told him. He would have done something different to a different person. My old flesh was driven by two things: shame and approval only through excellence. Thanks dad. Taught me to raise my own bar so high that I can’t ever jump over it. That is what that pastor did. It worked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RH, the only thing that scares me is that I DID have RAP at my side and she was looking out for my spiritual best interests and you may not. When you are NEW to all this, the enemy LOVES to “join the party” as it were and he will confuse the heck out of you. You are trying to go though the door from the lobby to the concert hall and the enemy is there waiting. But you did say your best friend goes there. If that is true, ask yourself if he would steer you wrong. Show him my posts on this thread and get his opinion. Ask him about the fire baptism.

If you don’t have the Spirit to “know” the Spirit in the church, LOOK TO THE FRUITS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what they are there for!!!

If the people in the church are not STRONG in these virtues, the Spirit is NOT moving. Especially look at the KIDS. Our children are OUR fruits. Especially look at the pastor. If your best friend goes there, and he is pretty strong in these fruits, odds are the church is strongly moving in the Spirit.

One word of caution. (Here we go again). Look at the fruit “gentleness” and think about that. When people are “new” to the Spirit, they can kind of get caught up in it. RAP and I were at a church where a woman was literally frantic with the Spirit. Our Lord does not get frantic. Loud during praise and worship, yes. Sometimes we are asked to cry out to Him and that can be loud. But not frantic. This woman was running around frantic. That does NOT come from God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1 CO 14:33
For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, 1 CO 14:26 – 40 is a good litmus test for a church. (That does contain the line about women disgracing the church if they speak in it. Which can be quite a source of consternation among Christians. Don't worry about that.)

So you were uncomfortable, RH. I would ask you to think about the other times in your life you were uncomfortable (and I don’t mean like in the dentist’s chair, but when your HEART was uncomfortable but still happy).

- When you learned to swim?
- First day of school?
- When you learned to drive?
- First kiss?
- Wedding day?
- First job?
- Birth of kid?

Have you had the talk about the “birds and bees” with your kids? I have with my oldest. Know what he thought about it? He said “Why would you want to do that, it’s weird!” We just feel that way about new, emotional things. Things that make us stretch and grow. If your heart in that church felt like it did in that list above AND the people (or a portion of them, as everyone is at a different place) in the church have the fruits AND you are really interested in the fire baptism, willing to stretch and grow yourself, I’d say you found where you need to be.

And I will pray,

It’s just a Spirit thing,

NCWalker

CHackler,

I agree with titles. You are either learning and growing in a church, or you are not.

You can't sing?!?

When has THAT been a problem?

Don't you know that God is tone deaf and color blind?

NCWalker

BUMP.

RH,

Really wondering if my follow on explanation made sense. How 'bout it, big guy?

NCW

Actually, singing has never been a problem for me... when I am in the shower or bath tub. Of course, hubby would have a different opinion.

I kind of figured out some of what is "missing". Hubby and I haven't talked much about the A and when we don't talk about it I let the withdrawals build up. When we open up and talk it always takes the focus off the OM and puts it back on us.

And I feel relief!

We tend to get a little lazy in the whole communication department thing but we both realized tonight that we can't do that.

Man o man, such a weight lifted off my shoulders (for now!!!).

In church I don't sing loud at all, I am afraid I would do some serious damage to the hearing of the people around me.

Communication, the absolute KEY to a marriage. Oh yah, there is that love thing... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

NCW: Didn't mean to ignore you, somehow I missed your follow-up bump. I was just looking for this thread this morning as I wanted to re-read your 2nd long post.

I understood the 1st one and the analogy with the concert inside. That made sense, or it was at least understandable to me. For some reason, whether it was late or what, the meaning of the 2nd post was beyond my grasp. Briefly, looking at the 3rd post, there were bits there that I am able to grasp.

Anyway, I wanted to pull up the post, so that I could reread it today as time permits. It's been a hectic last few days (at home and work). (Took the boy to a minor league baseball game Saturday night, rain all day Sunday-so I was a couch potatoe, then work yesterday, and working on homework last night, whew.) I'll get back to you after I have more time to digest it today then.