Salerio

I know that and do not count on it. Her values now seem to be firmly entrenched based on strict christian ethics. I don't think that will change.

I remind her to keep a relationship with her daughter and am aware the status quo will likely change with time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>Isn't it my duty as a parent to prevent their exposure to this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely. (It's her duty, too, but we see how she sees it differently.)

But now you have a separation agreement and your moral duties are second place to the legally binding requirements.

I'm not saying your desires are wrong - far from it. Just that you can't do anything about it.

This stuff really sucks.

Another personal example: My WS "became" Catholic during the affair because OM was Catholic. Presumably they forgot about the "Thou shalt nots." My wife enrolled my son in the Catholic propaganda lessons and he eventually got confirmed. Guess who his official Catholic "sponsor" was? Yep. OM was the model. Guess who wasn't informed that the confirmation was taking place? Yep. Me.

This act was in fact against our separation agreement. But after the fact, there was nothing I could do about it.

Divorces provide all kinds of opportunities for parent gut wrenching activities involving our children. Hopefully, the children eventually figure it all out and can make their own choices. Our jobs, when we get our turns to raise them, is to help them learn how to make the right choices.

WAT

O.K. WAT, I'll consider that position.

Q: How does your son view this now? Is he sophisticated enough to grasp the situation and how do you explain it to him?

My son will be 16 in a couple of weeks.

I believe his Mom effectively brain washed him into accepting that what took place between the two involved families was primarily the fault of OM's wife who is "crazy". (For the infidels, she conveniently went into immediate attack mode upon discovery and hasn't slowed down much since. This provided all the rationale they needed to justify that she was the root cause of all things bad in the world.) My son knows what an affair is, but believes his Mom that she and OM didn't have an affair.

But I think he's figuring out more and more as time goes on.

It's been almost 4 years since my WS moved out and my son's basis of belief was established back then, when he was just turning 12. I attempted early on the explain a bit to him what was REALLY going on, but he didn't want to hear it and I stopped trying to educate him. I adopted the belief that he would eventually figure things out on his own and my job was to be the best Dad I could be in the meantime, teaching him values and integrity - the virtues needed for him to figure things out on his own.

I still don't try to explain anything about this mess to him and we do not talk about his life with the aliens. We just don't bring it up.

Sad, huh?

WAT

It provides as close to a crystal ball regarding our potential future as I can get. My children are younger and will have no real concept of the situation until much, much later in life. Even then, my WW had her father do the same thing when she was 5ish and she harbors no ill will towards him for that. Gee, no connection there eh?

I feel for you regarding the crappy hand you were dealt. The loss of your son, wife and friend. It sounds like you have a good life in spite of it including your present romantic interest. Living well may be our only revenge.

I know her life, should she continue in her present direction, will not be comfortable. OM 300 km. away with two sons and a wife pose some logistical problems. She cannot move our children out of this city unless she can convince a court that that is in their best interests. Not likely. She is willful though and incredibly self entitled right now.

If it sounds like I’m giving up, I’m not. I will completely turn my focus though. No more “research” into their shenanigans. No more communication other than what’s necessary. Attempt to stop the brain from pondering every aspect and formulate a response.

I will have to learn to forgive myself too. Not just for the state of the marriage prior, but for my poor approach upon the revelation; taking the advice of a respected counselor for a “constructive separation”, allowing WW far too many liberties and means to purchase her house etc. It’s easy to become bitter.

I’m convinced I would have had a much chance and be in a much better situation if I had found the concepts presented here earlier. It is encouraging to see those poor wounded souls that do find the information and support here in the initial stages of their trauma.

Thanks for the help.

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

Post X 2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

So, back to fishing.

We caught three nice Little Tunneys (similar to a skipjack tuna) in the BVI. Biggest was about 28 inches. Very tasty. Trolling four lines, we had a double hook up, but only landed one. A real fire drill under sail. 7 people, but 9 jobs:

1. handle one rod with a fish on
2. handle the other rod with a fish on
3. reel in the non-fish-on rods
4. steer and slow the boat
5. furl the jib
6. help furl the jib
7. take the pictures
8. make the drinks
9. gaff the fish

Reel fun!

WAT

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Yep - I love fishing. Forget about all of this other junk. Boys and I went fishing on Sunday in the ocean. I caught 6 fish. My sons caught one each.

There are so many fun things in life. Let's not dwell on the downers.

I looked up what a "Tunney" is and it says they're quite the scrappers on light tackle. Sounds like a cluster to try and get them in under sail like that. Hope the drinks weren't spilled!

My trip will involve much smaller trout out of a mountain stream or a nearby lake. I will tie a self-tied delicate size 16 dry fly to a gossamer tippet on a hand built 4 wt. fly rod.

I will slowly creep out to a shimmering pool with gin clear water.

I will stay low to keep my silhouette to a minimum.

A telltale ring of ripples will betray a feeding trout on the edge of an undercut bank.

I will begin my back cast.

I will snag the willows behind me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I will curse like a sailor and break my tippet and lose my fly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Continue cursing.

I will carefully explain to my son how daddy was showing a bad example of fly fishing and how a person shouldn't react to minor setbacks.

I will repeat above. Son needs lots of bad examples to learn from.

BWAAAAAH! That was funny! When I first started taking my boys and their friends fishing, all I did the whole time was bait hooks, untangle lines, put on sinkers, hooks, untangle lines, bait hooks, put on sinkers and hooks. Well you get the picture.

Now my boys are grown, and still love to fish. And they even invite me. We go constantly. It is a wonderful family activity.

I even take my 5 year old neighbor friend. Still trying to get the point across that the hook has to be in the water, to catch the fish. He reels his in to check the bait about every 30 seconds.

Yup, sounds par for the course. It'll be a weekend of "chuck and duck" as my S wields his fishing rod and races to the waters edge. Makes me smile just thinking of it.

I better wear a hat.

And eye protection.

Better yet, I'll stay way back when he casts.

In approx. 1.5 hrs. WW should have a copy of my PBL in her hands. A copy will also be E-mailed to OM and OMW.

If I weren't so macho, I might admit to being a little scared. Trying to transfer kids, arrange schedules with hockey, swimming, etc. etc. will be a huge logistical effort without speaking to her. I can't get lazy and let this slip.

From there my S and I will be off for the weekend to the cabin to do some fishing. (I work 4 day weeks)

I'm as nervous as a cat.

Wish me luck.

A normal reaction, Binder.

You'll be fine.

But, good luck anyway.

Just remember, if it was meant to catch a fish with every cast, they'd call it "catching" rather than "fishing."

WAT

Done.

So, how does it feel?

Just got back last night from the cabin with my son. Had a wonderful time with fantastic weather. We fished, went horseback riding, roasted hotdogs and marshmallows around the campfire, and generally basked in each other’s company. He absolutely loves it out there.

Giving the PBL prior was a little anti-climactic. I probably waited too long to take this step. I don’t expect this to change much for her and at times really wonder if I could invite that chaos back into my life. Besides what she has done to our family, I find myself thinking a lot about the OM’s family and what misguided sense of entitlement she must have to rationalize her involvement in the destruction of his family. The longer this goes on, the more comfortable I am with my role as a single father. I will wait and honor my vows, but not forever. I have a time limit in mind. I’m not getting any younger or better looking and I already have more baggage than Joan Rivers on Safari.

With the separation agreement in place, my WW simply has to wait until one year of separation (Dec) is up, then a “desktop” divorce can take place as all the property is split and the parenting schedule is set up. I will expect it. If not done, I will wait until my self imposed time limit is reached and I will initiate it. WW called several times, (unfortunately I can still get cell coverage out there)but I just gave the phone to my S when I saw her number on the display. I explained to him that I get too sad speaking to WW and I don’t want to be sad anymore. He said he understood.

She actually called for me a couple of times, but I would not talk to her. Calls after my son went to sleep were allowed to go to message. I erased them without listening. I don’t want to get into the habit of communication via voice message. She finally relented and got a hold of me via MIL; all for an insignificant reason.

It’s my son’s birthday today. I will see him after WW has a party for him and his friends. MIL and SFIL will bring him by. Yesterday he said he already has his present, me. Then he said a better present would be me and his mom back together. I got something in my eye at that point.

You're doing well, Binder.

Any good fish stories?

Your course has paralleled mine quite a bit. I believe I've mentioned the similarities before, but as we know, all the cases are more alike than they are different.

An example:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>Besides what she has done to our family, I find myself thinking a lot about the OM’s family and what misguided sense of entitlement she must have to rationalize her involvement in the destruction of his family.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A big ditto. As well as the sense of entitlement of the respective OMs. If we didn't have the alien abduction explanation, how could this behavior even be believed?

Keep being a good Dad. Things start getting better from here and your dedication as a Dad will make your purposes and future decisions the right ones.

WAT

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Yes WAT, I believe the parallel will continue right through divorce. I am prepared for that. I also am prepared for reconciliation, but the boundaries are getting bigger and firmer to accommodate that.

The fishing was slow probably due to the heat: high 80's. (Way, way too hot by my standards) My son, didn't care. He caught a few small brook trout and was ecstatic. Then went for a wade in the stream, caught a frog etc. It was so refreshing to see him out there for the pure joy of it. He didn't care what he caught. No snobbery regarding species, no fancy Orvis rod, no care but just being there for himself, me and the present.

We made a memory.

God bless our children.

I'm with ya, man.

It's these activities as a boy that I remember best. Not a special toy or a Christmas present or a birthday party - but going someplace neat and doing something fun.

(There was that one time playing volleyball on the beach when what's-her-name's top fell off. Now THAT made a memory! Don't remember her name, but.......)

You're a long way from divorce, so don't plan on the parallel continuing. But if reconciliation is gonna happen, you've already done your part via Plan A. Now you can concentrate on being a Dad.

WAT

Hi Binder,

You already have really good help in WAT, but I wanted you to know that others are still reading, and praying for you.

You realize we don't know, but I just can't get the feeling that yours is a done deal. Be that kind of person you want to be, make the changes you want to make, be a light house. If you do, you will find the happiness you are looking for. I know it's easy to say things, but I have faith that you will do this right, and come out the other end happy like you want to be.

I'm glad you had a good time with your son, like WAT says, that's what our memories are made of. Keep making good ones.

SS