gc:

This will sound odd coming from the biggest no-plan-Ber alive, but:

The time and si2ation are RIPE for the Plan B picking! If you and OMW BOTH go pb on your WSs, they'll HAVE 2 meet each other's entire inventory of needs.

I can identify with what JL told you. My W never left me, and so things aren't nearly as dramatic as they are for most BSs. Sometimes the extreme na2re of the drama provides a catalyst for massive changes. Lacking big changes, it's easy 2 spend a long time going down dead-end pathways before realizing it. I think I've done that as well.

My W is going away this weekend with the kids 2 an event my D bought them tickets for. ...I'm looking forward 2 it, ac2ally. Mostly in a healthy way (time for me 2 focus on other things besides MBing and meeting her needs), but not entirely so. And that bothers me.

-ol' 2long

2long, you may be right, but I'm not ready. I need to get my life together, and I feel I need to see the sparrow a few more times. She is seeking my counsel and trusting me more and more.

I want her liking me when my anniversary hits next week, and I want her liking me when she goes to Ireland next month. I suppose if I plan B her right before she leaves for her trip, it will give her lots to think about without having OM around. I'm obviously still having lots of indecision about plan B. End of August seems good to me still.

Earlier this week the sparrow asked me when we could get together again. I proposed in an email that she and I meet tonight to talk. She has not responded. Should I call her, or should I let her reach out? I'm inclined to wait to hear from her.

GC

I would wait.

I think you're right on Plan B before her trip. If she leaves with you still a 'friend' (as far as she knows) then she will use her time for vacation and probably sit around and miss the OM. If you leave her with a lovely Plan B letter (which is a LOVE letter that says I love you so much I have to protect myself from this pain) every time she tries to think about the OM - thoughts of YOU will intrude.

for the longest I thout ark was a guy too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Gray,

With sparrow leaving the timing is perfect for plan B. Let her handle the mess she has created. Not only isn't the grass greener sometime there ain't no grass a'tall.

just my $.02

Doug

for the longest I thout ark was a guy too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Gray,

With sparrow leaving the timing is perfect for plan B. Let her handle the mess she has created. Not only isn't the grass greener sometime there ain't no grass a'tall.

just my $.02

Doug

I haven't heard from her, and don't really expect to. Maybe she's gone out of town for the weekend again. I think I'll go to the place we were supposed to meet, have a bite, and read a little, and call it good.

I have a PBL written already. I haven't touched it in a couple of weeks, but it will not need many changes before I can test it out here and see what everybody thinks.

August 13, the day she leaves for Ireland, is so close. I don't even know if I'll see her before then. Her 33rd birthday is 8/21, and she comes back from Ireland on 8/22. If I give her the PBL before she goes, I may include some kind of birthday gift as well. I still don't know if I'm ready to do this. Undecided.

Going to our meeting place alone. Keeping to my plan to be there, have a gin & tonic, and get a bite, with or without her.

GC

graycloud - That is the best thing to do. Keep on going on with your life. The sparrow will start noticing.

Ummm...no to the PBL with a birthday gift. Gray - it would dowse the effect quite a bit. See, right now she comes and goes as she pleases. If she's silent, it's because she chooses to be. But you give her a letter that states that as much as you love her that YOU need space to remove yourself from the pain of it all - and all of a sudden YOUR the one choosing the silence. She won't like it, she'll actually NOTICE you're gone, and she'll rebel against YOU making the rules. And if she doesn't...then she's probably already gone.

H4F, the sparrow gave me the big blow-off tonight. Certainly she is aware that she didn't acknowledge my suggestion of time/place.

It's hard to keep convincing myself that she's thinking about me at all. That's why I'm so hesitant about plan B. I'm practically already in it, by the sparrow's choice. I have not heard from her in four days. It's pretty to think that she's thinking about me, but there's nothing happening that makes me believe it.

And every time we meet, it's the same song and dance from her. She starts out all tough, a few minutes later her face goes slack, and somewhere in there she talks about how much I hurt her over the years. She says some of the right things, but ultimately refuses to take ownership of this A. She says "I'm the one that did it" and says "I don't blame you", but it's quite clear that ultimately she still thinks it's all my fault that it happened. There's always lots of talk about what's wrong with gray.

Then some time goes by and we talk and she's right back at the same point. I feel there is no progress, and the warning from her friend suggests that she's getting further away, not closer. She seems unfazed that I'm boxing up her things and getting them out of the house. She seems uninterested in my activities. Her darkness makes me feel I could be dead and buried and it would make no difference. Her loyalty appears fully to be with OM, and I am an inconvenience.

On the way over to the meeting place (a bar we used to go to all the time), I entertained the possibility that she might come and bring OM with her. My imagination is wiiiild with this kind of stuff these days. Yuck. Eating buckets of sh*t.

GC

gray,
Listen, you need to go back and RE-read H4F's last post to you....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you give her a letter that states that as much as you love her that YOU need space to remove yourself from the pain of it all - and all of a sudden YOUR the one choosing the silence. She won't like it, she'll actually NOTICE you're gone, and she'll rebel against YOU making the rules. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YOU NEED TO TAKE CONTROL of what's happening in YOUR life. If she doesn't like it, rebel against it, whatever - GOOD!!!
That means SHE will begin to focus on your end. SHE WON'T LIKE IT that you've "taken back control" of your life, and cut her out. SHE WON'T LIKE IT that she cannot come and go whenever she wants. Here's why: When she needs a "fix" of graycloud, HE WON'T BE THERE!!!

Don't underestimate that fact. SHE DOES need a "fix" of you........maybe not often, but she does need it. My xH did not talk to me barely AT ALL during the entire 3 years he was w/ow. About as little contact as is humanly possible. I felt it was ZERO contact. But the truth is? It was about once every 10 months!! While that doesn't sound like a lot, it WAS "something." And apparently it was enough to get him "over the hump" and allow him to continue on with his "illusion" that he was OK, and happy w/ow. If all was PERFECT in fogland......I could reason that he would have NEVER had contacted me!! After all, we had no children together.........no reason to have contact...........he doesn't have contact with any other previous relationships/xW's (yes, he has another xW - the mother of his children).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's hard to keep convincing myself that she's thinking about me at all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DUH!! She's NOT thinking about you!!! HELLO?!?!?! The point here is that she WANTS TO NOT THINK ABOUT YOU........until she needs that "fix." And by Plan B'ing, YOU will be backing out of her neat little circle, - WATCH THIS: FORCING OM TO MEET *ALL* HER EN'S.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the warning from her friend suggests that she's getting further away, not closer.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't worry about it. I suspect the friend was "put up" to talking to you. If I'm wrong about that, then the next thought I have is the friend "thinks" she's helping you. IOW, she is trying to help you detach, let her go, move on, et al. as the folks out there who don't know MB principles, and think there's NO WAY to salvage a broken M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She seems unfazed that I'm boxing up her things and getting them out of the house. She seems uninterested in my activities. Her darkness makes me feel I could be dead and buried and it would make no difference. Her loyalty appears fully to be with OM, and I am an inconvenience. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS IS WHY IT'S CALLED "THE FOG." And they DO come out of the fog, and become "normal" again! I'm witnessing it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Final thought, gray:
It has been my experience on MB that the vast majority of folks who fought against going to Plan B, always say afterward, "I don't know what I was afraid of.........this is a much better place to be...........this has made all the difference.............I can't believe how it changed things for me and gave me peace...............I should have gone to it sooner............it snapped my Ws out of the fog almost immediately.............I would advise ANYONE who should go to Plan B, to go to it immediately, there's nothing to fear...they're already gone, so what do you have to lose?" Plan B gives YOU back the power to decide to have (or not to have) contact w/the fogged one, to set boundaries, and NOT be a doormat anymore.

It gives YOU back your self-esteem. THAT ALONE should be a convincing argument. Dust off your letter. Get it ready. IMVHO, you should do it AFTER the birthday. That way, you can give her something really special if you care to......soemthing she might "wear" around om! Like a watch, or necklace.......then? A few weeks later, BAM!! Hit her w/PBL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Devious. But effective. She'll have the "gift" to remember how you remembered her b/day.....and then YOU WON'T TALK TO HER. Confusing as h*ll in her fogged state. Let her LB all over OM, since she can't get YOU to engage! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BTW, it would be GREAT if you could convince OM'W to do the same thing at the same time. Both of them will think they'd been handed the keys to BLISS!! Neither S wants them? WOW!! Couldn't ask for a better "set-up." They'll happily get on with the business of being in a full-out, all-known A!! WOW!! VEry soon, they will tire of each other. One or the other will NEED to have contact w/a S, but the S is not there!! A PERFECT situation to pop the bubble of their alien spaceship fog! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

God Bless,

Lupolady - that was great!!!

Gray - listen to these ladies, they know of what they speak!

Lupolady, that was some kick in the [censored]. Thank you, thank you.

I still don't quite "get it". I'm still in "yeah but my situation is different" mode a little bit. I'll get out of that, don't worry. I know better.

I'm going to bombard the sparrow with a little more kindness before I detach. Nothing crazy, no uninvited advances or wild gift-giving or anything. But I have our 10th anniversary, my W's departure for Ireland, and her 33rd birthday all happening in the next few weeks. Need to operate against all those milestones/obstacles. My 34th birthday is 8/30. Wonder if the sparrow will be thinking of me.

GC

I'm just going to say this one more time so I can "I toldya so" later. Shutting her out before the trip would be optimal, as it would keep YOU on her thoughts while she was away with her grandmother (who is on your side) and away from the influence of the OM. And complete silence on her birthday would be more effective than any attempt at a gift. She will surely reject anything you offer at this point. I'm saying this from experience. Take it or leave it.

LUP AND HOPE4 are right on target.
Gray, friend of mine this is you opportunity! I know you maybe somewhat afraid if you go to Plan B that she will completely latch to the OM, but look at it this way. It's the best chance you have for her to really see the bad decisions she's made. How can she see that if she knows she has you on standby? I wish my WW could be with OM in a real relationship! Its hard to prove to someone I'm better than a FANTASY! If I could throw the 2 of them together I would! I would lock them in a live in relationship and swallow the key!!!

You have a golden opportunity. Folks say I should be glad my W is home and glad the OM is not interested in a relationship! BLAH! I'd much rather she'd be with him that way she could find out first hand that the grass isn't greener! You have that opportunity if you enter Plan B and get on with your life. Leave her on that Island with this OM and all of his [censored] backward controlling qualities. What do you have to lose?
She's already gone man.

Trust that things will work out. Dont hope they'll work out, expect them to work out.

Hang in there Gray.

<small>[ July 24, 2004, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

H4F, FM, lupolady, I'm with you. I trust your advice; it is priceless to me. I'm going to take it very seriously and start getting ready.

Already sort of started. The letter is drafted, I went and got a new bed today, and most of the sparrow's stuff is in the garage.

I may need y'all to do some more preachin' at me, I'm warning you now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thanks to all for your help. I'm pretty bummed out this weekend, but hopefully I'll find somebody to hang with tonight and not be such a loner. I actually paused in front of the frozen dinners at the grocery store the other night. I'm a good cook, so you can imagine what a low it was to find myself even considering that nasty stuff.

GC

You cook? Me too! Frozen dinners suck!
Yes, find some guys to hang out with, that's the ticket. Most of my friends were single so I detached from them when I started reconciling my M. All I have is some old female friends numbers now, and I can't dare go socialize with them, that would only complicate my sitch. Single women can smell a weak-good-looking man a mile away and I'm sure everythng that comes out of there mouths will be in THEIR best interest, NOT MY FAMILY OR MY KIDS BEST INTEREST.

Yes, if you have friends please go hang out and get your mind off of all this drama. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Hey, I just motivated myself to go catch a movie alone or something...lol

FM, I love to cook, and I never, NEVER eat frozen dinners. Sometimes when people stink up the office with them at lunchtime I have to get out of there.

I have lots of single female friends, and I don't feel there's anything perilous about spending time with them. I may be vulnerable, but I'm not stupid.

Funny you should mention that single women can spot a vulnerable man. I've had a handful of women approach me in the last month, and when I was married it never happened. Yesterday a woman who was going door to door in my neighborhood for a non-profit invited herself to hang out on my porch with me and take a rest from pounding the pavement. They do seem to have some kind of strange radar.

GC

GC, I never developed an affection for cooking, however I'm learning quickly. Seems like I cook almost everyday for the kids and WW. Of course she never really did cook much before the A either. Wasn't a really good cook, but I didn't marry her for her cooking. Trying to remember my bachelor days, and helping cook more at the firehouse. The guys there are having quite a time ribbing me about the cooking thing. The only thing I could ever cook well was chili.

As far as the women spotting vulnerable men. I never thought of it that way. I never kept a large contingent of single female friends. However I have been getting more attention, made me feel good, but just figured I never noticed those things when I was "happily married". Maybe it is like you say, spotting vulnerable men. Its like blood in the water.

Anyway I digress. Back to your thread. Just felt like typing something somewhere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ July 24, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Frozen dinners... yeah... not much good...

All hard and cold... next to impossible to cut, or stick a fork into...

And they always seem to slide off the plate...

(Ok, that was stupid... I'm sorry. I'll go now...)

dewt

Good morning Dewt - It's good to see I'm not the only what up at this hour!

You sent a verse from Phillipians to Believer yesterday that really touched me. I really needed to read that yesterday and I copied it down & put it on my fridge. Thank you so much for that!

Weaver