2Long-

Yes- I know the stats but I have to wonder- how
many couples that started as affairs would own
up to that years later- this fact would certainly
schew the stats.
If I had only a 3% chance of marrying my MM and
did. I'll take my chances with the 5% in 5 years.
4 years from now I'll let you know.
But you have to admit there are situations such
as mine that do work out.

LHC,

I joined MD several months ago, but this is the first time I've posted. I'm posting now because you are on the brink of making the worst decision in your life.

I left my first wife because I fell in “love” with a married woman. I had been married for 15 years and never so much as looked at another woman during that entire time.

At that point in time I was 35 years old and my career was on the fast track. My wife and I had just moved into our custom built 3200 square foot house on a two acre lot in an exclusive development. Our two children were in the best private school in our area. Our relationship with both her family and mine was fantastic. We had great friends and a great future ahead of us. We had things planned out so that we could retire at age 45 and spend the rest of our lives enjoying our children, and our children’s children – growing old together with the warm memories of all we accomplished together.

We literally had it all.

Then it happened. I met OW. I immediately knew in my heart the OW was my soul mate. My life until then had been spent doing nothing more than waiting for her to come into it. She felt the same. I truly felt like I had never known what LOVE meant before she walked into my life. I was prepared to give up everything – my family, my friends… my entire life to be with the most perfect woman to ever walk this earth.

In all honesty I will say that I have never experienced anything even near the emotions I experienced with her during those first few months.

That was eight years ago.

Today I’m a 43 year old alcoholic married to a serial cheater. We are flat broke and live in a 900 square foot rat hole of a house.
The only good thing I can say about my life at this point is that I was able to make sure my x kept the dream house, and my kids got to stay in the good school. The x never turned my kids against me and I am still very close to them. I am truly grateful to her for that because the only thing that keeps me from suicide is my love for my kids.

Think about it LHC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong> MelodyLane-
Was he honoring his vows when he cheated on
you? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pink, My H STAYED and made AMENDS for breaking his vows, yours didn't. He left. So yes, he has honored his vows by repairing the damage he inflicted. Honoring vows does not mean that you are 100% perfect throughout the marriage - no one is - it means staying and repairing the damage, not compounding the betrayal by permanently breaking those vows.

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Pink:

abolutely! Even 3% is a number...

I submit 2 you that you've willingly (though perhaps subconsciously) overlooked something:

You say you stopped your R while your H and his X went 2 counseling. But unless you were completely out of his mind, with no thought of "we'll get 2gether if it doesn't work out", then you were simply justifying your self-fulfilling prophecy by claiming 2 be supportive by not persuing the A while they were in counseling.

Yes, the BW had every right 2 choose 2 DV her unfaithful, untrustworty H. But, did she grow from the experience? Or just get away from the pain of it? You and your H simply didn't give this enough time, or enough distance, 2 really see what mettle your H and his X were made of. Now, nobody will ever know.

As for whether the WS is honoring their vows while cheating. Well, of course they're not. But you missed my point about this above.

WSs ARE dishonoring their own vows when they cheat. But affairees have made no such vows 2 each other, or if they have, they're a sham, and carefully avoid any reference 2 the untrustworthy behavior that put them 2gether.

You might make it, though.

-ol' 2long

2ble post!

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I think we digress on this thread. Pink, I don’t agree with your point of view, nor will anyone else here. You know that though, you’ve had the same debate here before.

You may end up being a “successful” stat. If memory serves, however, isn’t this marriage #3 for your husband? I’d rather take my chances on the lotto. Your pastor has his work cut out for him.

Cruz -

Please, please stay here. I'm going to get some of the guys to read your story and talk to you.
Promise you won't disappear, okay.

Weaver

3ple post!

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

TPP, thanks for your response. Since the XW isn't here to give her version of things, I'll have to believe you. But it seems pretty common for the OW to think the BW is horrible, unfeeling, and interested only in money.

What kind of abuse are we talking about? You must mean the XW was abusive toward her WH. If you say she was abusive on some emotional level, I promise not to roll my eyes, but I'll be tempted.

GC

2Long, that was a very good observation.

I firmly believe that prior to WW saying she wanted a DV, that she complained about me to OM for months. Each time something happened that she didn't like. He listened. Supported her, told her things like "I don't why anyone could do that" and "I could never treat you that way".

I'm sure he told her to follow her heart. That if she wants to work things out with BS to go ahead, that he understands. I'm sure that he was just there for "support". (and some cyber sex)

But as you said, as long as he was there "in case it didn't work out" then WW was not working on the M. As long as he was there "supporting her" WW was unwilling. In fact working towards destruction.

He sucked her in, listened to her and let her complain about me. Told her how wonderful she was, then got his rocks off with her. Quid pro quo.

No it was physical violence and I didn't here
it from MM- but from his sister- he confirmed
it when I asked him about it, it was something
that embarassed him.
This was what she told me-
W had slapped him in the face with a metal
spatula. She threw hot coffee in his face and
another time had thrown the family cat at him.
This all happened a year or more before us.

Not sure who made the statement- but there is something I want to say-

Vows take place between two people- before others
and before God- only God can see what is truly
in people's hearts. Therefore no one can say
with 100% certainity what vows are true and what
vows are a sham. If it serves to make you feel
better to judge validity as if you can see all
then by all means BUT it doesn't make it truth.

TPP, as I'm sure you know, sometimes an A is used as an escape from an abusive M. I'm a little surprised you didn't put that information right at the front of your first post, though.

Have you ever had a calm discussion of things with your H's XW?

GC

I didn't discuss before because I didn't view
it as relavant to the topics at hand in prior
posts. I believe you are the first to ask me
the questions you did.
I have never had a discussion with XW- calm or
otherwise. Neither of us has seen the need. My
understanding is that she believes we started
seeing each other during the separation. She feels
that if I was not in the picture, her H might
have been more committed to the M. What little
anger she had- she focuses towards me- I base this
on the fact that she still keeps intouch with H
and has said that she hopes we never meet.
My pastor suggests that I do all I can to respect
her wishes. As time has passed- we've heard from
her family members that she is quite happy and looks at the divorce as best for all concerned.

I didn't discuss before because I didn't view
it as relavant to the topics at hand in prior
posts. I believe you are the first to ask me
the questions you did.
I have never had a discussion with XW- calm or
otherwise. Neither of us has seen the need. My
understanding is that she believes we started
seeing each other during the separation. She feels
that if I was not in the picture, her H might
have been more committed to the M. What little
anger she had- she focuses towards me- I base this
on the fact that she still keeps intouch with H
and has said that she hopes we never meet.
My pastor suggests that I do all I can to respect
her wishes. As time has passed- we've heard from
her family members that she is quite happy and looks at the divorce as best for all concerned.

Pink:

"Vows take place between two people- before others
and before God- only God can see what is truly
in people's hearts."

I can accept this, though I don't believe in god.

"Therefore no one can say
with 100% certainity what vows are true and what
vows are a sham."

Reread my post. I didn't say this. I concede 3% uncertainty.

"If it serves to make you feel
better to judge validity as if you can see all
then by all means BUT it doesn't make it truth."

This is correct. I would only add that, even for religious people, though it's unfair of us 2 judge others, it's not unreasonable 2 judge behaviors. We all do it all the time. So it's important 2 distinguish between judging behavior and judging persons.

If the xW was truly violent like you said (gadzooks, threw the cat at him?), and was unwilling or unable 2 change that bad behavior, then it was probably not unreasonable for your H 2 want away from that.

You are certainly not the first MBer 2 come here who's M'd their A partner. I hope you understand that I wish you no ill, but am just pointing out 2 the original poster that your sitch, if it's truly a rewarding M now, is an extremely rare exception 2 the rule, and not something she should be banking her fu2re on.

-ol' 2long

Pink:

"My understanding is that she believes we started seeing each other during the separation. She feels that if I was not in the picture, her H might have been more committed to the M. "

This is pretty nearly certain 2 be true, and what I was talking about a page or so back.

If she's now happy with the outcome, then that's great.

-ol' 2long

I seldom post here these days. However, there are eery parallels between your story/t&#305;mel&#305;ne for your affa&#305;r and my s&#305;tuation. &#304; have to comment.

My understanding is that she believes we started seeing each other during the separation.

Firstly, why do you cont&#305;nue to disrespect this woman by not giv&#305;ng her the truth?

Secondly, th&#305;s was my XH's plan too. He started the affair about 6 months before he left (wh&#305;le I was away do&#305;ng military training - no less). The plan that he and OW came up with was that he would leave me, make a staged attempt at 'reconciliation' with some token marriage counselling sessions, determine that the marriage was finished and a few months later OW would be brought out into the public as his girlfr&#305;end.

In a nutshell:

THEY CONSPIRED TOGETHER THAT THEY WOULD DEC&#304;EVE HIS W&#304;FE, THE&#304;R FAM&#304;L&#304;ES AND THE&#304;R FR&#304;ENDS.

Turns out that the only people they were fooling were themselves.

At least they can bel&#305;eve their own lies, even if no one else does anymore. And &#304; am sure that they would tell their children and their grandchildren the same lies. Will you tell your children the truth about the origins of your relationship? Or maintain a tradition of lies and deceit?

She feels that if I was not in the picture, her H might have been more committed to the M.

What were you doing in the picture at all???

My pastor suggests that I do all I can to respecther wishes.

It's never too late to start is it?

As for your happily ever after. God MIGHT just bless you with a long and happy marriage, despite the continuing deception. Good luck with that.

Enigma, beginning to think the same thing happened with WW and OM. Planning.

Enigma,
I am truly sorry to hear of your situation.
In my case, no we never had any sort of plan in
place.
In terms of telling XW that there is a 3 month
discrepancy in terms of her possible belief of
time frame. What would be the point? I have
been asked to respect her wishes. The only actual
wish I am aware of- is to never meet me- that
is the only wish I KNOW to be true. I am not
going to assume she would want "enlightenment"
from me unless I hear otherwise.
Now in regards to what was I doing there in the
first place- I think I have made my position
clear- I believe I was wrong to engage in the
affair. I believe that affairs are wrong. I
certainly would not partcipate in one again.
So various posters continuing to beat this
dead horse accomplishes very little. If you are
willing to give your WS the benefit of a second
chance- how about looking at the OP in a
different light. That's what I see as a missing
piece of recovery here. The focus is solely on the
recovery of the married party. How about
more detailed info or even a chat page on the OP.
Their fog, their pain, their recovery- to
ignore them is to not fully understand or asuage
later potential issues
JMHO

PP,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Vows take place between two people- before others
and before God- only God can see what is truly
in people's hearts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be the same God who says,
"Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another commiteth adultery against her.."and of who "hates Divorce", and who says "thou shalt not commit adultery"?

The same God who says thaat what He has joined together man must not put asunder?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Therefore no one can say
with 100% certainity what vows are true and what
vows are a sham. If it serves to make you feel
better to judge validity as if you can see all
then by all means BUT it doesn't make it truth </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By that reasoning his own vows to you, and yours to him are equally likely to be a 'sham'.

But you might ask his wife if she trusted him when he promised to be faithful to her until death parts them. Ask him if he trusted her when she made the same promise...

Do you know with 100% certainty that God was not working on the marriage?

Shul