Pink:

OP are welcome here, so long as they really ARE interested in getting through the pain that they're experiencing, and NOT looking for justification for inflicting it on the BS' family.

Those that ARE looking 2 continue in their A have TOW.

-ol' 2long

And conspire they do...

I still find it unbelievable that my H and OW manipulated a bunch of people at a business dinner to get OW invited to it.

H was visiting a company that he works with. OW works at a competitive company now. OW used to work for the company that H was visiting (that's when they had their first A).

H and OW planned for H to call his rep and suggest that she invite OW because they are all such good friends, go way back, blah, blah, blah. Rep calls OW's home and gets OWH. OWH says OW not home but that going to the dinner should be okay. OWH passes on the message to OW and asks her "The guy coming to dinner...is this the same guy that you had an A with before?". OW says nope.

They planned the entire thing so they could make goo-goo eyes at each other during dinner...a dinner that OW had no business attending. Also established a reason for OW to be in the area in case anyone noticed OW at H's hotel...entering or leaving his room.

So what Enigma says happens all the time...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THEY CONSPIRED TOGETHER THAT THEY WOULD DEC&#304;EVE HIS W&#304;FE, THE&#304;R FAM&#304;L&#304;ES AND THE&#304;R FR&#304;ENDS </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sss

Didn't read all the posts here, but I see that Pink is justifying M to her affair partner because the OM's W was abusive.

Well... My H broke my arm when I threatened to call the woman with whom in fact he was having an affair. He did this 12 days after I had surgery, including a hysterectomy, for child birth related injuries. I ended up needing three surgeries for the arm because my ulna was broken in 7 places.

Still, he is my H. Our M was mutually abusive. I don't think marriages in which there is only one abusive partner lasts more than a few days. The person who is not abusive separates. That does not make the M vow null.

What is needed is for the abusive couple to commit to a program of marital recovery.

I welcome all opinions, even those of the OPs who marry their affair partners. I think that it is likely the future will have some bumps in the road. Pink may be experiencing some bumps in the road now but not sure how to handle it. Pink, stay on, even if we disagree with you, your voice is important for us mostly BSs to hear...

Cherished

Thanks Cherished,

Actually I wasn't trying to justify my affair-
only trying to answer grayclouds questions
regarding guilt or lack there of
based on my perspective to date.
I like to think I have something to offer here.
I often think that the OP role gets a worse rap
than WS because you have that emotional attachment
to your spouse that you just don't have with the
OP. It's easier to focus all your venom on them.
While I don't support affairs- I think I can
bring a human voice to the other person. And if
I can provide any help to those here- it will
be worth the occasional verbal attack.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
That's what I see as a missing
piece of recovery here. The focus is solely on the
recovery of the married party. How about
more detailed info or even a chat page on the OP.
Their fog, their pain, their recovery- to
ignore them is to not fully understand or asuage
later potential issues
JMHO </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh?

Ya got me scratching my head...

"To ignore them is to not fully understand or asuage later potential issues"...

Aren't we talking marrige recovery here?

Could you explain why married couples during their own recovery could or should concern themselves with OP ~anything~? Isn't that why we press the need for NC so hard.... so OP is no longer a concern or an issue within the marriage???

Lost with your logic here...

Pep

PS********** What the heck does "asuage" mean? it's not in Mirriam-Webster?????

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I agree that the OP is villified.

From my perspective, my H spent years going through bouts of physical abuse and blaming me. He told me about Sophia propositioning him and calling him and he went out with her because I wasn't nice to him, ignored him....She was calling him, and it would be rude of him to hang up. Well, basically, he was blaming her and me for his willingness to see her. This was BEFORE it was exposed as an affair.

I blamed Sophia. In fact, I ended up with a harassment order from her. The ironic thing is that the harassment order woke me up to the fact that Tom and Tom alone is responsible for his behavior.

Just over the Fourth of July, my mother in law confided in me that, when she found out what happened two years ago, she was upset with me.... I laughed and said, And I was upset with Sophia.
She said No, no,,, and then I said, "Until I realized that Tom's behavior is Tom's responsibility."

It is easier to blame the OP than to look at the person you married who chose to hurt you in the worst way imaginable.

Do keep posting...
Cherished

Hi Pepperband,

Yes- the whole site is devoted to marriage recovery. But under the topic of Infidelity- where
this string is located- only two aspects of the
triangle (WS & BS) are given a voice. And although
I support the idea of NC for marriage recovery-it
would be a good thing (JMO) if there was a
discussion forum for the OP. Advise, direction
and support are not specifically offered here.
Of course, I'm not talking affair support but
recovery support.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
-it would be a good thing (JMO) if there was a
discussion forum for the OP. Advise, direction
and support are not specifically offered here.
Of course, I'm not talking affair support but
recovery support. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A good thing for whom?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
-it would be a good thing (JMO) if there was a
discussion forum for the OP. Advise, direction
and support are not specifically offered here.
Of course, I'm not talking affair support but
recovery support. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A good thing for whom?

Pep </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you already offer that sort of help and support on TOW?
Redbook online offers that support as well....

Why should I (me personally) care what OP does once the affair has ended?

She is none of my beeswax.

Pep

Marriage Builders is more focused on what to do right in a marriage, not on what was wrong.

The op has no say in marriage recovery. It would do little good (if any) for them to be heard.
The only thing I could see is that they could fill in a few details of the affair & confirm/deny what the ws has said.
That would be of little use except to stir up trouble between the married couple.

I think it would benefit all. I think to
continually discount the third part of the
triangle in recovery is short sighted. I'm
not saying the married party should remain in
contact but to have an anonimyous voice here
would provide insight- especially for the BS
that comes wondering what the OP could think,
does think.. it would provide a safe forum.
I often think of Octobergirl- who seems to be
to be so full of anger and rage at OP- I feel
because she is afraid to fairly charge her WS
with any of that hostility that she is hampering
her own recovery. She doesn't even acknowledge
OP as human- she is simply "homewreaker" a thing-
I wonder if things would be different if
she had a human face (or voice) to talk with-
as oppose to attack.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong> I think it would benefit all. I think to
continually discount the third part of the
triangle in recovery is short sighted.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But the OP has no place in the recovery process of the MARRIAGE and that is what we address here. It certainly doesn't help the BS or the WS to stay in contact with the OP, hence his/her exclusion. The presence of the OP does nothing but harm in the recovery process. MB is a program for MARRIAGES, not OP's, just as Pep stated.

Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
I think it would benefit all.

I used to post on a forum called "All sides of an affair"... on Redbook... it's a free-for-all fighting forum. It rarely focuses on marriage recovery. I would leave marriage builders if this OP forum happened.

I think to
continually discount the third part of the
triangle in recovery is short sighted.

Recovery has ZERO to do with OP.

OP is a non-entity in the marriage once recovery is really underway.

I'm
not saying the married party should remain in
contact but to have an anonimyous voice here
would provide insight- especially for the BS
that comes wondering what the OP could think,
does think.. it would provide a safe forum.

Who cares what OP thinks?

It is not an issue in recovery.

OP is GONE from the marriage.


I often think of Octobergirl- who seems to be
to be so full of anger and rage at OP- I feel
because she is afraid to fairly charge her WS
with any of that hostility that she is hampering
her own recovery.

Then tell her...

She doesn't even acknowledge
OP as human- she is simply "homewreaker" a thing-

Perhaps OP is functioning as "homewrecker" in OG's world??? It might be more accurate than inaccurate in her circumstances... Who knows?


I wonder if things would be different if
she had a human face (or voice) to talk with-
as oppose to attack.

In marriage recovery ... OP ceases to exist for any meaningful purpose. OP is an OUTSIDER ... an interloper... the welcome home mat is for the WS only .... not to include the OP.

Pep

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
<strong> I'm
not saying the married party should remain in
contact but to have an anonimyous voice here
would provide insight- especially for the BS
that comes wondering what the OP could think,
does think.. it would provide a safe forum.
I often think of Octobergirl- who seems to be
to be so full of anger and rage at OP- I feel
because she is afraid to fairly charge her WS
with any of that hostility that she is hampering
her own recovery. She doesn't even acknowledge
OP as human- she is simply "homewreaker" a thing-
I wonder if things would be different if
she had a human face (or voice) to talk with-
as oppose to attack. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a BS, I can't imagine that I would ever care what the OP "thinks" or see any benefit to hearing her thoughts. It certainly contributes nothing to recovery. She is irrelevent.

And in OG's defense, she has never denied that the OW is a human and you certainly are not in any position to adjudge her recovery. Decent people do become outraged at injustice, especially when they have had mindless cruelty inflicted on them. If she weren't outraged she wouldn't be normal. I doubt that seeing the woman who contributed to the destruction of her marriage would do anything, except aggravate her justified anger.

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

ba109- your short comment KILLED Me and oh I needed to laugh. THANK YOU!!

this is the kind of support I NEED and why I started a thread. wh has moved directly out of the frying pan and into the real fire as far as I can see....will he ever see?

PEACE OUT...and IN!!

OH YEAH...my thread is in recovery- check it out please-

PEACE OUT

Pink:

"She doesn't even acknowledge OP as human"

I won't speak for OG, only for myself. In my case, RM ISN'T human, he's a rodent (RM stands for "rat meat", my "endearing" term for my W's OM).

"she is simply "homewreaker" a thing- I wonder if things would be different if she had a human face (or voice) to talk with-
as oppose to attack."

I'm sure RM has a "human face" despite his pedigree. But you know what? I wouldn't care if he was the spitting image of Jesus on the cross! HE, and HIS personal recovery from his cheating on his W, ending their M, breaking up his family, by having an A with my W, is NOT MY PROBLEM. He WOULD BECOME my problem if he were 2 come here and ask for support FROM ME or from my W.

And I'd be right behind Pep on my way out the door if that were 2 happen.

Thankfully, it won't.

-ol' 2long

What gets me Pink is that you don't seem one bit remorseful in the part you played in destroying another womans marriage. You seem so dang glib and confidant about it. HOW do you know what his former wife went through eternally, do you think she was going to call you up and tell you her whole world was crumbling before her? You had a 3 year EA with her husband according to your original thread, before it moved to a PA. No wonder she was violent, who wouldn't be. She probably thought she was going insane with her husbands lies to her about you two being just "friends". I am just sick at your apparent lack of remorse.

I was a one time OW and I feel I have nothing to contribute to anyone here except in exposure which I believe would have stopped my affair. I do not even like to think about it let alone talk about it. I came here to try and save my relationship and pending marriage to my FMM, and realized how great the people here are, read their pain, their hopes, their fears and I am still here because if I can help be supportive in anyway possible to them rebuilding their lives I want to help.

I think you are really here because your marriage is in trouble. And I have this little feeling that you will be the one to cheat on this man.

I read Cruz's post about the destruction of himself and life from his affair with a serial cheater and I want to cry. He was on this thread too, did you even acknowlege him?

Why is everyone spending so much time debating with you when their is so many people on this board that are in desparate need of support?

In fact when you first came here I replied to you because I wanted you to feel welcome, but you only seemed to want to talk to Pep and Ark, in fact your started new threads singling them out. Why is that...just curious

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why is everyone spending so much time debating with you when their is so many people on this board that are in desparate need of support? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you weaver. I was wondering that myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm not sure what is going on here that is constructive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You tried to welcome Pink Paige with an open mind. And several of us tried to welcome Lonelyheartsclub with an open mind and spirit of helpfulness, and now this thread has taken quite a turn.

Faith1

I think it is VERY constructive. I think the worst thing that folks can do is sit by while her brand of sick, demented talk goes unchallenged. If it goes unchallenged, pretty soon it will become the norm around here.