H is getting emails and ?’S from friends about next years golf trip! He says he hasn't answered them or even read them through.
They are supposed to go to a place where whores are rampant, VEGAS. Could this be my plan? No more vacations without me! No more boys will be boy’s vacations! Dam it I hate the person he made me become!
I will never be the same trusting person again. I will never be the one sitting home while he's away doing whatever!
He hasn't even said he's going or not. Should I bring this up? Should I wait for him to bring it up? I am stressing.
too many things going on.

I just read your first posting. I could feel the anguish in your words. I didn't read the rest so I don't know if H ever admitted more of these encounters.

My guess is it wasn't the first. Especially siice the whole group was involved. 15 guys don't all of a sudden get drunk and do a stupid thing. It was planned, but you probibly know that by now.

I think you should bring it up. No sence in you stewing about it and worrying about it. HE SHOULD NOT GO! Period! END OF STORY. No matter what any body else tells you, he forfitted the right to go on those trips when he betrayed your marriage. He may never earn the privilage of such trust and freedom, but certainly not sop soon. You should tell him now before he gets tied up with the old gang and can't get out of it. Tell him, "I know you'll understand why I'm not ready for you to take a trip with your friend right now. Maybe someday, but not now. And I know that after all of our hard work over the last few months you would not want to put me through the pain and anguish that I would have to endure so you can be with your friends. I know you would'nt do that to me!"

If he argues with you about it, then you know where his heart really lies.

Hi Regards,

It is pretty exceptional that a spouse would go on a vacation without the family. It happens, but it is the exception, not the rule.

And your H BLEW IT! I think 'No thank you, I'm vacationing with my family this year' is the only acceptable answer. Period.

These inquiries are causing you stress, so yes, I think you should ask him about it. It's only reasonable that he not be in contact with people who dont support his marriage. Good luck and please take care - Dru

LG & Dru, thanks for your thoughts. H is away on business (scary) but when he returns I'll bring up next golf trip and settle my stressing.

H denies any other instances, which I have been having a hard time believing, for the same reason you said. I confronted H on that right away; he was very sick & depressed. I think now he's sorry he told me so much. He spilled the beans on the other men on the trip now he's back peddling, saying it wasn't everyone and now it was only him. So much to sort out....which version do I believe?

Do you really want to know how stupid I am? After H told me what he did, he was crying on his knees, felt so bad, even had thoughts of killing himself. (He felt he contracted a terrible disease) I got him a card. The card says something like "I believe in miracles, I believe in love and happy tomorrows I believe in a bright future for you and me..blah, blah,blah"

I was being a little selfish the other night (stress of business trip) he says "why don't you read the card you gave me?" I wanted to throw the bible off his head and tell him to read the part about husband & wife, but didn't.

I recently read a post on here about an ONS written by noodle. She put into words how it feels for me.

Also, I still want another child, we have been trying and trying for years. This past year I went to fertility doctors, started meds and even the day he left for the trip, tried to time sex with my ovulation. What to do now? So much to sort out...
Regards

Listen here Regards. You need to stop beating yourself up! You are Not stupid, we all believe in miricles, we all believe in happy tommorrows, and if the was no hope for a brite future then no one would be here. If you are stupid then we are all stupid. And that can not be true.

It is not selfish of you to protect your marriage! Yes he was sorry, yes he loves you. But he confessed because he thought he was sick, and he cried because he thought he was dying. What about you? Did he cry because he was afraid he might have infected you? Was he on his knees because he was begging forgivness for bringing such pain and heartache into your home? I hope so! Because he should have been.

You need to take charge! You have done nothing wrong! He SHOULD be the one to bring it up. He should reasure you that he will not be taking the boy trips anymore, at least until you feel compfortable with it (prob never). But if he doesn't bring it up you MUST! You must simply say NO! His business travel brings you enough pain, but you should surely not be required to endure repeats of the trip that broke your heart and shattered your world. That JUST CAN NOT BE!

Good luck

Hi Regards,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H denies any other instances, which I have been having a hard time believing, for the same reason you said. I confronted H on that right away; he was very sick & depressed. I think now he's sorry he told me so much. He spilled the beans on the other men on the trip now he's back peddling, saying it wasn't everyone and now it was only him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldnt guess, I'd ask him. He SHOULD be sorry he ever was involved with people so immoral, not that he ratted on them. He SHOULD be sorry he wasted so much time with these men. He SHOULD be sorry for all he's put you through, not defending a bunch of party boys.

I'd bet the party boys are worried that YOU might blow it for them by telling their wifes, and may be putting pressure on your H to retract anything he's told you. Actually, I'd really consider telling the wives, if you know them!! I've heard of more than a few of these Boys Golfing Trips that turned out to be whoring expeditions... I'm sure they'd want to know. And if the party boys are single, then your H certainly has no right to hang out and party like a single man...

Basically, he hasnt earned your trust, certainly not enough for another trip like this, EVER. He's proven he cannot handle it and there's too much at risk.

I'd have no issue stating that those trips are 100% OVER forever, or I'd be packing my bags. If he's going to be a husband, it's time to act like one. How about couples trips which include another wife?? That is totally resonable.

And I promise, a child at this time will only add stress. A child may be in your future, but I'd wait a good while before having one with your H. He's not even proven himself a worthy Husband, much less father-material. Please be careful and take care of yourself - Dru

Dru, I know that you are right. How can I ever trust him again? I've been reading everything I can get my hands on, just to get through the resentment of his actions, his choice.
He comes home from his first business trip (since ons) tomorrow...we'll definitely talk about the "golf trip". I've already decide that I couldn't handle another!
I do know some of the other wives. Actually a few families were going to meet on a weekend vacation in August. I told H that I couldn't face seeing these guys...they would all know what my H did and I would know what they did. H says it's not their fault, he's the idiot he's the one who made the biggest mistake of his life.

We've shared our family vacations with one guy who is divorced. (Now I know why) When H told me everything this guy was the one who suggested that they all go to the certain place, can you imagine the conversation? "Hey guys, I know a place where there are a lot of whores. Let's go have a few drinks." "Sure let me shower and freshen up first." Never mind that almost everyone else was married!

Part of me doesn't want to go on this August weekend, but some of my family members will be there. I really want to see them, I think I can plan things with my family and not even see them. Maybe I shouldn't go? I think I need more time. so much to sort out.

dru, after sleeping on what you said I need to defend my H. We have a 13 yo son who adores his dad. He is a wonderful father. We do go on family vacations and enjoy each others company very much.
We lived in a large 4 bed 2.1 bath home but kidded all the time because we were always within 10 feet of each other.
That's why is actions were out of character, why the disbelief is still so strong.
so much to sort out...now i'm defending my H.

Hi Regards,

Please dont worry, you dont have to defend your H to me. I realize that when a BS is on MB they are often posting the worst of the worst. You are just a few months past dday and very, very hurt. If your H didnt have some great characteristics, I'm sure you would have kicked him to the curb... I dont think he's evil, but he certainly hasnt proven himself trustworthy. That was my point.

Have you read Harley's articles on trust and LB's? We are not supposed to TRUST our spouses blindly, we are supposed to create an enviroment that cannot HELP but to support the marriage. Your H's LB's put him in a highly dangerous situation, in which he failed! He did not protect his marriage.

Are you two in MC, reading the SAA, HN/HN books? If you two are really going to survive this, some serious, professional guidance is a must. There is just so much to go through and you see how frustrated you both get when you get stuck. Give yourselves the best chance at a real recovery. Please take care - Dru

H came home from the business trip and we talked about the golf trip and how I didn't want him to go. He doesn't understand why I would say that now...he says "I told you I would never do that again, why can't you believe me?" He says what kind of marriage we will have if you don't trust me. Will I rule this marriage with an iron fist? I said actions speak louder than words and his actions sucked now it's only words. He wants the happy girl, who believes & trusts him like before and my answer is "that girl is gone” In her place comes the NOT-DOORMAT I'll be happy again; I have a lot of love to give and to make. But that blind trusting Girl is gone.
He won't say that the golf trip is off for him, but that I'm crazy if I think he'll do "THAT" again. I will not allow him to be put in that position again. Same friends, same old trip different place, what am I a fool!

I really need advice on this. I don't want to give an ultimatum, but I really don't want him schedule this "golf trip". There are a couple of single guys on this trip, the one who suggested the bar with whores is divorced.

Should I keep bringing it up? He knows how I feel and still won't give me the answer I'm looking for. H says why don't I go away he trusts me.

I am stressing out how can I do this for almost a year.

Regards....oh how I feel your pain..

How strange it is to me to hear so very many of my own husbands words sliding out of your husbands mouth. I suspect that our circumstances have a lot in common...his A is with a culture/lifestyle and not really another woman per say...

Here comes the fun part where I tell you, definitively, that you can not prevent him from putting himself in that position again..this is outside of your control..and he is clearly bucking against the idea of answering to you for the rest of his life [mine did/said the same thing..almost exactly..creepy] However and here comes the relief...what you do have control over is what position you will allow yourself to be put in. You absolutely, 100% do not have any obligation to tolerate situations that you feel put your marriage at peril..this covers a lot of ground..people, places, events..etc. You may not have the right to rule with an iron fist [even if it be in a velvet glove] but you do have the right to decide that what he is demonstrating to you, by disregarding your concerns and feelings [WS: You think I'd do THAT again?!...BS: I didn't think you'd do THAT ever]
is that he is more concerned for his own pleasure than for the future of the marriage right this instant . Don't get too horribly hung up on this..everyone slides into a wrong thinking cycle sometimes..what is telling is how they handle it's exposure. Something like this was helpfull for me, I'll let you have a look and pick out anything you may find usefull.

BS: I want to discuss this golfing event with you, and I want you to only listen and not talk..when I have finished I will listen to anything that you have to say. I have come to regard these situations as inappropriate under any circumstances, without regard for what has happenned. You say that you are sorry and I believe you. However, to willfully put yourself in this position again, particularly while disregarding my needs and feelings in order to do so is unacceptable to me. You want me to be a happy and trusting person again..this is my goal also..in order for me to trust you, you must demonstrate that you are making trustworthy choices..let me make this official in case we have any misunderstanding..I will not ever trust you to be above temptation. It was naive of me to have done so. I will not repeat the error. If you choose to put this event ahead of our marriage, I will choose to re-evaluate our marital status. Any Questions?

Listen to noolde!!!

You do not have ANY control of H's actions. You do have 100% control over how you respond to H's actions.

Fist tell him how you feel. Then tell him that you consider his disregard for how you feel to be a proclamation of non-involvement in the recovery and rebuilding of your marriage (which he damaged). Clearly outline the actions you will take to such a proclamation of disregard and non-involvment. If he chooses whoreing, and drinking with his buddies, then he must face the concequenses of those actions/choices.

Have you told the other wives yet? If you did not make a promiss to your H not to tell, I think you should consider it. Right now it is you against your H and 15 of his friends. You are fighting for your Marriage against overwellming odds. Couldn't you use 15 alies? Your husband is recieveing a lot of pressure from the boys! "Be a man"..."wear the pants"..."don't be [censored] whipped", they don't want anything to ruin their fun. But it would be different if you had all those BS'es on your side. Even the non BS wives would keep their H's home, and put an end to all this silly, destructive behavior! No more trips, much less problems.

You are not alone, you have every one here, but we can't help you the way the wives of those other men can.

Be strong, don't give in...LISTEN TO NOODLE!!!

Mugs

Thanks, Noodle & mugs. I will read and reread your comments. Then I'll sit with H and tell him again about how I feel and if he wants that happy, trusting wife again he needs meet my needs. I want to feel secure and safe. I will keep reading all I can to overcome the resentment, stop thinking about it with every song and every movie that has adultery and love in it. I want to forgive and make us better.
Regards

I tried to talk with H. He's just recently back to work and is going off the ADs. He says to stop talking about this and I should be nice to him. I know it sounds stupid...but I don't want him to slip back into depression. That took a lot out of us.
I think I give the golf trip talk a little rest. He knows how I feel, what more can I do.
R

hello, I maybe coming from left feild , but I will through it your way anyway . I do not know your hole story so keep that in mind ..

I have a H who always went out , football, cardgames, golf, you name it .

I don't mean every day LOL ya know the once a month ,, I am man , need the space thing .

I never never had a problem as long as we did together as well and as a family . FINE .

After the A I of corse headed for CHANGE the life syle buddy there will be none of that..... NOT

NOW you are only a few months in so I agree the letting go trust thing will take major time and if he is remorseful and understands the dynamics of this he should y=understand it is not busness as usual .

BUT , he is nervous that you will because of this A (mistake ) want to rule his life and that is where it gets hairy .

BEFORE I took H back I had to face a reality this is who he is , what he always was ( he enjoys going out ) I M that and excepted him .

NOW his A had nothing to do with the palces he went or anyone ,,, and I understand that is different for you ,,, BUT ,,, yet the same .

SEE by having freedom he was able to have the A that I never thought he would .

So what to do ,,, hhhmmmm , well this is waht I did ,,,

IF he enjoyed going out so much and it wasn't about being with out me then he won't or shouldn't mind if I come along .

I learned about the sport of GOLF and then I invited myself along .

I am very intersted in footbal so now I go to all games .

ALL good ,, NO ,,, of course theres the men want to be with men thing so ,,, I gave him what I thought is a safe envirment of family and freinds that he can "play with "

ITS his choice you want to go out go with this one or that one , period .

AS time goes on the trust factor builds and then I am able to let go of other things .

I am not saying it is perfect , but I can't be responsiable for him 24 /7 and do not want to live that way eother.

I do not want him to resent me , by me saying he can not go anywhere alone , cause that only brings resentment and along with lies .

Again it is soon for you , but you may need to here what he is saying ,, he will not be ruled .

This is very powerful to move forward , it was in my M .

NOW do I agree that in my perfect world a WS /FWS should have rights ,, NO I do not If it where up to me alone I would think a great M after A is one where the WS/FWS

1-kiss my A$$ every minute
2-never leave my side
3do what ever I say
4- and basicly eat, sleep ,and breath only me

BUT ok I need to realize I am not congress and can't make any laws LOL

SO I need to live in the real world .LOL sorry always humor in there .

YOU can not control him, you control you and I do belive you should always convey all you are thinking , you have that right to get it off your chest .

2cents in . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Regards:

I am so sorry that his response to your discomfort was so manipulative and unrepentant. Let me take a moment to ask a few questions and clarify a few statements..

1) If there is some concern about him regressing into a depression..why is he going off his AD medication?

2)How is your concern that he is putting your marriage at risk not being nice to him? Is the recovery of your marriage not his goal also?

3) If "being nice" is shorthand for "allow me to do as I like, when I like, for as long as I like, without regard for how it will affect you..and smile"..are you prepared to live with that?

4) With regard to his fear of being "ruled". I understand this, I wouldn't accept being ruled either...however, do you see that he has no problems with an unequal measure of power in the relationship provided that he has the greater share? Read about the policy of joint agreement. This is THE way to protect both parties and to nip resentment in the bud.

I think it is important to assert that these little vacations are not appropriate and never were . That's right..say it again, his ONS is not what has changed the scenario..they were always a poor choice. The question is..now that you are aware of the danger that lurks in these shadows, do you not see that your conflict avoidance is enabling him to further damage your relationship? Will you be thinking loving thoughts while you lie awake at night? Will his selfishness in this decision not affect you, perhaps at some crucial moment when you are ay a critical decision making point? When he returns, will you be comfortable having unprotected sex with him? If so, why?

Drat! lost half my post!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem..and now for the humorous conclusion...


ok..let's pick up with the unprotected sex...

Ok Regards, here's the thing..he is likely to do it again..the statistics speak for themselves...except this time, it is also likely that he won't tell you about it. So if you have sex with him, when you know that he is vulnerable..when you know that he has been in a position to have had another ONS...is his word that he didn't going to be good enough? He has already broken his word to you, and I would be willing to bet that there is a trail of deceit a mile wide leading up to this ONS...even a serial killer usually has to build up to the act, chances are that he has dabbled his toes in these murky waters before he was engulfed by them. His initial remorse may have more to do with him shocking himself than a genuine desire to change his ways and protect his marriage. His actions thus far support this. His response to the opportunity reeks of addiction. An addict will do whatever it takes, lie, manipulate, destroy to satisfy his or her desire. What I hear him saying so far is, I want to do as I like, and not pay the consequences. This is called cake eating..as in, have my cake and eat it too.

Regards, what I hear you saying just breaks my heart. You so want everything to be alright. It isn't though, and pulling the covers over your own head will not help you or him. Open war has been declared on your marriage, do not be timid..this is a time for boldness. If you love him, do not abandon him to the pit. Do not stand by and wring your hands while he skips into hell. You say that you want to forgive him and move on..this is a beautifull sentiment. The boundaries you need to enforce are designed to protect him from himself as well as help the two of you to rebuild the trust. You must have a foundation on which to build. If he is truly unwilling to participate in the genuine recovery of this marriage..you have nothing to build on. I'm sorry that this is such a harsh truth. Whatever his other fine qualities may be..however much you enjoy his company, how much he loves his children and they him..if he is simply not willing to put the miles in, the two of you have nowhere to go. You see..it isn't merely this one particular vacation, it is what it represents. He needs to understand, and perhaps so do you..the gravity that his decision here will carry. If he has the opportunity to make a deposit into his marriage account, but chooses instead to withdraw in favor of good times with "the boys"...he is telling you in no uncertain terms that you are not his first priority. You do not want to issue an ultimatum..however, that is what is called for in my opnion. Is it truly better to continue on as you were? Wouldn't you prefer to know now if he will choose you or refuse you? Now, before you have invested another month/year/ten years?

I truly hope that your husband clears his head and makes the right decision. I know it can happen, but with all honesty Regards, I have never seen it happen while the foggified spouse was comfortable where they were at. Change is hard work, we don't do it casually. It is human nature that we change when our circumstances become so unbearable that we regard the effort to be justified. If you allow him to be comfortable where he is, chances are good that he will remain in this extended adolescent frame of mind. I can't speak for you, but when my own husband was manisfesting this attitude, my respect for him was sliding away. Not only did I resent his attitude, I resented every bit of effort I felt was being wasted on him. I resented the years of my life that I could not have back. I resented all of the tears and heartache his ONS had caused me. I d@mn well resented him for not caring how much he had hurt me. What I am trying to communicate here, is that although I too began in a loving place, where what I most desired was the recovery of my marriage, and everything to be OK...after enough months of my love bank being withdrawn from I was losing my love for him. I began to want to pull the trigger, rather than to just be willing to. I understand now that I allowed this situation to occur. I didn't know what to do, how to handle, what was reasonable, what I could enforce and how. Everything I needed to know..[well, at least 90%] is provided free of charge on this site. My hope for you is that you find the courage to face the monster now..while it is only medium sized, rather than to let it grow and watch it devour everything you value.

The last 7 or so months...we have begun our true recovery. It has brought a deep intimacy that I couldn't have previously even imagined. We still have issues to resolve..but now we are both pulling the cart, and we are looking into each others eyes while we do it.

Best of luck--Noodle

Well, I couldn't keep my mouth shut about this golf trip. I don't know how it came up but it did. He says he doesn't want to become a hermit, he likes golf and going away with his buddies, this was the first trip anything like that has ever happened. Why can't I just do something productive with my time? Stop obsessing about this. Get a better job make more $, something. He can't stand hearing about this all the time.
I said I don't want to keep bringing this up but we have an unresolved issue next year’s golf trip. I tried to be calm and use some of noodles suggestions but I said some awful things and I think my teenage son overheard. I can't believe I can curse and say thing like that. That was major love busting. I tried to find out what my son heard, but he just say some yelling but couldn't make out what it was. My H is angry of what S may have heard and I am too.
I don't care anymore...no more fighting...I'll just drive him away for good. Sleeping is different rooms tonight.