In the US, a fax machine with a dedicated line, typically has no caller ID. If that helps!

B, I am in the UK. I can look at caller ID withholding I guess. I have a terrible feeling about this though. Terrible. My gut tells me it will make OM contact WW out of spite.

I still think perhaps that revealing the A situation to the coach might be useful but a huge LB. WW told me yesterday over lunch that if I told the coach 'that would be it'.

Gutted, sad, alone, hopeless and lonely once more.

When will I stop being heartbroken all the time? I can't go on like this. No drama, I just can't. Its making me dysfunctional.

WW just told me that she will not be attending the karate away weekend this weekend 'as its too much hassle'. I was elated, then she said 'and it was cancelled anyway'.

I don't know the full story (i.e. was it cancelled when WW said she wasn't coming or not) but its good news anyway.

THis is so hard. I have the tournaments with definite OM contact coming up to look forward to. * sigh * She is much harder towards me today than yesterday. Its a horrible ride this.

It occurs to me that my WW is a senior respected sport coach. She offers advice and counsel to many folks of both sexes in her Karate club and beyond. She cannot POSSIBLY drop all that to have only ME as her leisure time activity. Is there any hope for our marriage? she is a freebird and if I clip her wings she will hate me for it.

What if a 'top 3' EN is freedom of association ? This is so darn hard. Sorry to moan again but life has no hope of improvement right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> * sigh *

I have contacted OM and asked that he workd with me aon an NC schedule for Tournaments. if he don't play ball I tell his GF

Bob,
I know that you are struggling with your feelings, but what I see here is that you "know" what you need to do, but you are "afraid" to do any of it.

As long as this continues, your W and the OM can remain in contact and you are playing the game by their rules. This is not making you happy, and you are not making progress in your marriage. It is not working.

You contacted the OM and let him have a say in the NC rules and then made a deal with him about not exposing the affair to his GF? Are you NUTS?
Don't let the OM have ANY say in the repair work you are attempting in your marriage. He has his own best interest in mind, NOT YOURS!!!

Here's how the NC letter works. You and your W write it and make sure it is delivered. after that, NC. You don't meet with him to discuss the terms.

You have received a lot of good advice regarding exposure of the affair and yet you are "afraid" to do it bacause you think your W and the OM will end up together. My friend, they are going to end up together anyway if you don't change the way your relationship with your w is going. You are allowing her to have the cell phone (at your expense) that played a big part in their communication because you don't want to make her mad. You are not going to call the OM's girlfriend because you don't have her #. You are not exposing the A to her coach because she told you not to...You see, she is calling all of the shots. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

She told you it was too much hassle to go to the tournament and yet the tournament was actually cancelled. Big sacrifice on her part? It sounds like something did not go her way, so she opted out. It's all about her.

I still see you agonizing about this tournament issue. Many here have told you to support her karate and go with her but I don't see that you are considering this as an option. It's not all or nothing here. You talk of clipping her wings and taking away her sport. NO ONE has told you to do that. You need to be a part of her activities and begin to build more shared time into your relationship. Is this an impossible idea to you?

As long as you are allowing her to manipulate your relationship and scare you into submission, she has NO REASON to change her actions. If this karate lifestyle is her only passion and she will not ever allow you to be a part of it and she continues to push you out of her life, your marriage is not going to survive.

Bob, I know this sounds harsh and you already feel hopeless. What I am trying to do is shake you into the reality of what it is going to take to reclaim your w and your marriage. Big changes will have to take place and you must have the courage to begin making them.

EXPOSE THE AFFAIR, EXPOST THE AFFAIR, EXPOSE THE AFFAIR. OH, DID I SAY, EXPOSE THE AFFAIR?

At this point, I am going to advise you to call the Harleys for phone counsel. I believe that you are making serious mistakes that are going to ruin any chances you have at recovery. tak control; of your actions Bob, you are strong and you need to fight for your marriage!

Bob:

I hate 2 say it, but with the OM and this other senior coach having a his2ry of infidelity, your W is in an environment that is POISONOUS 2 your M's survival. POISONOUS.

She should have thought of the consequences before getting involved. Without a radical shakeup of the whole business, she's going 2 have a very hard time healing without quitting.

I'm serious.

-ol' 2long

Bob.

I know you are hurting right now, but you need to listen to these folks.

I want to tell you another story. A very true one.

When my daughter was 16 years old, she had a crush on a 26 year old man. I knew this man, and I knew what he was all about. My wife and I keep gently nudging our daughter away from him, in the mean time, he kept contacting her. This went on almost too long. My daughter is very bright and had a big future ahead of her, and this guy was going to have her married and pregnant by the time she was 18.

My friends kept advising me to let it run its course, that it would work out. BULL HOCKEY!

I finally realized that I HAD TO DEFEND MY DAUGHTER!

Duh, what could I have been thinking! My first reaction was to end it before it got nasty, but friends were telling me to just wait it out.

After my awakening, I had my daughter stop all contact. Fortunately, she trusted and respected me enough to comply. The other guy wasn't so easy. I first contacted his parents and told them to get him to back off. A few days later, he called me on the phone and said he would continue to contact her no matter what. I then proceeded to threaten him physically. He certainly didn't want that, so he threatened to contact the police. I encouraged that. I am positive that the judge would want this man to be able to contact my then 16 year old daughter - NOT.

So, he did the only thing he could do. He stopped contacting her. She eventually got over it.

My daughter is now married to a wonderful guy. They are extremely happy with each other. She is working on her doctorate in chemistry.

Stopping the contact via any means necessary was the only solution. Being a protector of a person that I love more than my life was the right way to be. I did the right thing.

Bob, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself right now. Your wife needs you to be her protector - right now.

Gimble

Bob,
I'm worried about you today, check in and let us know how you are doing. Ladysing

Bob? Don't make me come and get you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Bob, darling,

Your W can confess, repent, and be forgiven, but there is going to be worldly consequences for her behavior.

If she misses Karate tourn. because OM will be involved, than that is her consequence, she doesn't get to commit adultery and then call all the shots in her recovery.

She has changed her life with her poor choices. Choices she made, and now she has to deal with the consequences of those choices.

You my friend are the one to hold her accountable. You are her H, stand up for your M, don't allow her so much slack.

She can not see this man, it is for the better of your M, and for her, he is a predator. This is where you step in, expose the A, to everybody necessary, and protect your W, because she is not thinking rationally.

I have lost so much of my life, because of my behavior. I'm sad mostly for my family, but I'm also lonely for the world I once had. I had to pay the consequence of my crime.

You can do this. I will pray for you, my friend.

KY

Hey Bob!

You have to get off the fence. Be strong for yourself, be strong for your children, and let you WW go.

To paraphrase an old saying: If you love someone, let her go. If she comes back, she is yours. If she doesn't come back, she never was yours, change the locks.

Let her go to those karate coaches. They might be big in karate, but they are not very big as men.

This is a Marriage Builder's site. Yet it takes two to make a marriage. Until your WW is ready to work on your M, protect yourself and your children. When she has enough of their using her, she will return. Then you can decide if she is worth taking back.

I know this all sounds harsh, but you deserve better. Expose the A, and let her go.

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: RAG ]</small>

Came to a head today. She doesn't love me, I've been just a friend to her for years. She loves OM. 50% of karate tournaments joy is seeing him, Thats why she wants to continue. She doesn't know what to do next as she isn't experienced in ths but she wants to leave me. Doesn't want to give it time. She has tried to love me in 3 weeks since D day but can't. Wants no part of it. OM is always on her mind.

What the hell do I do now?

Bob I read your post, stepped away from the computer and prayed for you.

IMHO you should EXPOSE, to every significant player in your lives. Siblings, Aunts, parents, friends, co-workers, her boss, and I think you should find out from OM's GF who you can expose to on his side.

Secrecy is part of the charm of an A. Take this away from her, the fantasy becomes reality. You know Bob, the reality of this man, expose him, and allow your W to see his reality.

You stay put, don't allow her to push you out, you are not choosing to leave the M, she is. This will also make it more difficult for her.

Don't LB, but make it as difficult as possible for her. You plan A until your heart can't take it anymore, if she does not join you, then Plan B her.

You need to protect yourself and your feelings for her. You can't allow her to be a cake eater.

{{{BOB}}}

KY

What in God's name do I do now? Plan A in the toilet, from his note OM is willing to kill the A as long as my WW doesn't get in touch but she is DYING to get in touch with him at tournaments.

Unless the fog lifts in 2 weeks before the next tournament she will meet OM and NC will be over and the worst month of my life will have been for nothing.

I can't stop her from going nor force myself to be at every tournament (they run for 12 hours and my 7 YO son is much too fractous to behave all day).

She says the A and the karate have been for HER for the first time in her life and she doesn't want to give them up for our sham of a boring marriage. Yes, friends, her hobby is worth more thn 18 years of marriage. What the HELL do I do now ?

I asked OM to let me know his schedule, and he will be at every event basically. No chance of NC if WW insists on attending.

I feel so betrayed, loveless. She will screw the kids lives over this yet I have done nothing wrong but work too hard for my family. 40 years old and with nothing. A weekend access Dad.

WW doesn't know how A's work and doesn't think she will ever be less infatuated with OM than she is now. To be fair its still pretty hot with her.

She doesn't know it was an A she thinks its real, true love. And nothing I could say would convince her.

I am not sure what massive exposure will do. Her Mother has Cancer so the shock won't do her any good, her sisters and my brother already know.
Her sports coach is also a gross womaniser so isn't likely to be worried. Our best friends know.

Right now WW doesn't care about anything but 1) herself and 2) the A with OM.

Only time and NC can fix that but she won't maintain NC for more than another 2 weeks.

* sigh * Its all screwed. I feel I'm losing everything . its slipping away....

Bob, not sure if you noticed my last post, we possted about the same time.

Your W needs to know, she can not have both. If she chooses the A, she needs to find some place else to live.

She can not live with her family and have a boyfriend. Absolutely can not.

KY

But KY I can't possibly look after our kids alone. My job is far too onerous, and I have no-one to help with childcare ( my parents dead, wifes father dead, mother old, ill, friends & relatives with kids and responsibilities of their own). I couldn't do it with the best will in the world. WW would take the kids with her. And then I am lost. KY thanks for the prayer but I don't think the Lord's got an ear for me right now....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>She doesn't know what to do next as she isn't experienced in ths but she wants to leave me. Doesn't want to give it time. She has tried to love me in 3 weeks since D day but can't. Wants no part of it. OM is always on her mind.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, this is soooo much fog talking it would drive any sane person nuts. She's addicted. She really believes OM will always be there for her etc. and reality will hit hard when she sees him with his next "catch". Because now really.. she's soooo special to him that he'll never look at another woman again? If she would be in her "normal" state of mind instead of her "addicted" state she would tell any woman that would be falling for this guy "be careful honey, he likes to fool around, he's going to break your heart". Yet now she really believes "she can change him".. if that isn't the oldest thing in the book...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> Came to a head today. She doesn't love me, I've been just a friend to her for years.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forget about the "I don't love you" and "we have only been friends" blabla. If you'll search this site you'll find many BS have suffered from such statements and the WS can't even imagine how they could have said it afterwards. Look for the "Great Fogese sayings" post (or something like that), you'll be amazed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>50% of karate tournaments joy is seeing him, Thats why she wants to continue.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh well... if 50% of her karate is about seeing OM then stop feeling guilty over "clipping her wings" and "taking away her favorite and only hobby".

Get yourself together Bob, as well as you can. You have an 14-year old on your hands right now (your W, that is) who is so infatuated with her boyfriend she can't even see what he is really like, even it is obvious to everyone else. This guy is no threat to you. From what you have described he's a womaniser and his "ever lasting love" won't last very long.

I'm not sure what to do here, continue Plan A or go to Plan B if she decides to move out. Maybe you should consult Dr. Harley (by telephone) on this. I really think you need professional help on this, to guide you step-by-step and give you something to hold onto in these bad times.

At this point you'll feel like you don't even get time to breathe in between blows. But believe me - you WILL get through this. It WILL get better. You'll be in a good place with yourself again, no matter what happens, if you'll decide to remain YOU, a kind person that deserves happiness and that WILL find his balance again.

My prayers for you.