Bump b/c weirdly this remained on page 2 after being posted so let's see if it moves this time.

Knewbetter, thank you for your post. sorry about the length of the posts, i start and go 100km p/h.

i will do the exercise you suggested and see what comes of it.
i can a couple of questions now for you; majority of the contact was to his phone. if called his mobile and he was at work or his home, he would return the call. he has only called me a couple of times from his mobile, he said because of tax purposes (i confronted him and said i felt it was because the business people would notice).

the unit we had just finished renovating i assume is his however i did say recently that i wasn't even sure anymore that his units were in his name only (business partner as well)

we would email each other during the day. this is what did confuse me constantly. one minute he would say business partner knew i was around, next he would say i haven't told her anything but she would assume. then the next he would say, i think she has read your emails you sent (whilst he was out of the office).? than if she did know about me...then why did he never acknowledge when i am there and she rings.

he used to leave the room when his phone would ring and after much discussion i said that was very rude - his excuse was it was business calls (accept that) however on a saturday night they weren't.

Hire a PI..i assume i have one of those on me at the moment (i wouldn't put it past him and the fact that he owns one of those companies in town) i have actually had that thought of late. however, we pretty know each others movements (i think).

i don't know if his business partner is away with him, i didn't bother to ring the office yesterday. i can only assume he lied about flight because we spent time with people before he left and didn't want to leave himself open incase i wanted to see him before he left.

thank you again for your words, may god bless you.

Ok, I have done some cut and paste here in an effort to help you see some things.

*************************************************
Your quotes:

he has and still has EA's however in his eyes that is not correct - one particular one is a business partner of 18 years (they had a fling in the start) and it is like his exwife. she rings all different times, she doesn't know that i am around again, i have never met her as his partner in the 5 years, she shops for him, buys him gifts, has his home number (i am not allowed it in case i call in the mind of the night if we have had an argument) she has the use of his holiday homes and i don't.
*********

i tried to call again and his phone is turned off. instantly i smelt a rat. so i went to the airport for the 2.10pm flight and he was no where to be seen.
just as the flight is boarding, i saw him out of the corner of my eye whating for his business partner (female friend of 18 years an issue that has been a major problem). i turned away because i was shaking and when i turned back he was gone. i walked closer to the departure gates and he was all but running onto the plane.
so in my time of comforting him last night with the lose of his friend, he has chosen again to lie about the time of departure (probably because he didn't want me to come out and see him off if she was with him) he lied about going by himself (she knew the guy who was killed also) and he lied about his length of time away possibly because they are going to travel again. we were supposed to be going O/S in 3 weeks time. he did the same to me some 4 years ago. after we broke up, he then took her.
*************

am sitting with the same feelings he left me with 4 years ago when he dumped me (plenty of excuses for that) and went O/S taking his business partner with him. it is probably a bigger slap in the face this time because we had been in planning stage to go O/S for the last 4-5 months - now he has taken her (don't worry there would be an excuse).
************

i should have realised this when he was not willing to resolve the issue i had with his business partner - i was told 'too bad, she will always be around, she is special and i don't trust you will do the right thing by her if i introduce you, i will not hurt her'! so i was expected to make changes for him however he wasn't. he thought just by not going out with friends, or taking up invitation with these other female friends, that that should have been enough. when the real issue was about how i felt i was just a 'mistress'. i wanted to be seen, known and taken out as his 'partner' just like normal couples. his excuse was he liked to keep his private life private, taking or including me was not want he was comfortable with. he had no problems taking his business partner to social or personal gatherings. so by not accepting invitations he was avoiding the situation. looking at it now, it was another lot of excuses - he didn't want to do that because he didn't know where we where going!
***************


how nice. he had threaten me that he wouldn't take his business partner to the Athens (she would just automatically assume she would be going) if i behaved nicely. and pisses me off, this women gets all the benefits because she only deals with him from the business/personal level, not intimate emotional level yet she gets all that i missed out on because i didn't do it right and she is rewarded because she doesn't hurt him like it do.
****************

he has gone o/s and the business partner is accompanying him to this friends funeral (of course there was no mention of that to me). i never heard from his for over 1 week, by this time i had gathered we were an item. finally he called me to say he was back in our home towm. where are you living i asked 'he had gone to stay was back in our home towm. where are you living i asked 'he had gone to stay with the business partner (female)' he was in the middle of a large business deal, he had no time for me, he was having doubts about our discussion on one night stands, over the next 5 months we probably went across the road from his work for drinks 4-5 times, our intimacy was trashy. a couple weeks after he came back it was my birthday and he couldn't be bothered to come out with us (he would have explain his whereabouts to the person he was staying with).
**************

a couple weeks after he came back it was my birthday and he couldn't be bothered to come out with us (he would have explain his whereabouts to the person he was staying with). i remember here and a friend our had came to stay and just in conversation told me how she had had a long conversation with his business partner at a recent party - i nearly died, i had asked if he would like me to join him and he said but he took her.
*************************************************

Putting all these post together, builds a pretty strong case that the "business partner" is more than he has lead you to believe. You are most likely the OW, while she is the official GF, I'm sorry.

Interesting how he promises you things, future things but always instigates an argument/breakup before he has to fulfill those promises.

The reason I asked about the phone is b/c the mobile phone can be set to vibrate thereby not alerting anyone else to your calls. He can then call you back at his leisure. It can lead you to believe he's available to you when he really isn't. I was curious if his partner knows of you and who does she think you are when you call the office?

This may sound strange, but my advice to you is to have a frank talk with the "business partner". She is probably as unaware of the nature of his relationship with you as you are of his with her. You need to explain that while you have been seeing him for the last five years, you were under the impression that they were business partners only and could she verify. Sort of like exposure with a twist, if she really is his main squeeze you'll find out in a hurry. Look at it this way, you'll save $$ on that PI.

Do not alert him that you are going to do this if you decide to b/c he'll just set you up in advance as a looney tune. I know this advice sounds convoluted (asking another woman if your're the OW or not?) but you need to put an end to your misery and confusion with this man. Five years is enough, life is just too short to waste like this. Don't let him have any more of yours.

One way or another it's got to end. You've got four weeks to stew on this. Do not instigate contact, think on these things you've been told in this thread, maybe print them out so you can read them at will. What are your thoughts? KB

thank you trying2_4give for having the .. umm .. umm... kajones, for saying what I was thinking but could not say.

CMTS1964 listen to knewbetter

way2

<small>[ August 02, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

CMT,

I am with everyone else. GET OUT NOW. He is an abuser and he is also a control freak. You cannot win this one, and from the sounds of it he meant far more to you than you meant to him.

You are NOT married to this guy, so technically you did NOT cheat on him. However, it is clear from his behavior and YOURs that this relationship is bad news for both of you.

Please leave him and move on, as I am sure he will once he understands that you have. ABuse should NOT be tolerated and there is little debate that he is and has physically abused you.

Leave, there are better men out there, and I suspect your experiences will make you a better woman as well. Use what you have learned on a man that deserves your devotion and honesty. This man does NOT.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knewbetter:

One way or another it's got to end. Do not instigate contact</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh, hello? The guy just kicked the s#$% out of her and you want her to contact the OW?

KB--your intentions are 110% in giving her anything in your eyes that could benefit her. I was terribly impressed by the cutting and pasting you did for her. That was quite a bit of time and effort you put into her 1 X 2. (A nicer version of a 2 X 4. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

However, *you* even said it: "Do not instigate." My goodness, what would talking to this psychopath's girlfriend be considered?

Closure is sooo important for any relationship ended. But, again, using your words, "One way or another, it's got to end."

Hon, end on YOUR terms: run away from him with both both fingers flying high and don't look back!!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Thank you sooo much for all your work, support and advice. had a big 'thinking day' and i must say i am so confused (please don't jump down the screen at me)
this first cut and paste i had thought about today - i have maintained this poor dumb women has no idea. she once was he lover, i can bet it was him that cooled it off. she was probably in love with him, just like i am. he has kept her there for his own use; bit like me. she has been at his beacon call, he impresses her, looks after etc with no committment and over time she has just become accustom to it-better to have that than nothing. she gets all she wants excluding the sex.
he admitted that way back he set it up that people thought they were a couple, that way he didn't have to worry about other women hitting on him.
So my question, without knowing the physical abuse would you class this as odd? as an EA? or are they just good mates? maybe it's him that asks her to buy him things, maybe that's a game to make her feel wanted or to piss me off? I am sure he would be comfortable if i asked my boss to go shopping for towels, perfume and homeware....

he has and still has EA's however in his eyes that is not correct - one particular one is a business partner of 18 years (they had a fling in the start) and it is like his exwife. she rings all different times, she doesn't know that i am around again, i have never met her as his partner in the 5 years, she shops for him, buys him gifts, has his home number (i am not allowed it in case i call in the mind of the night if we have had an argument) she has the use of his holiday homes and i don't.
*********
Second post - maybe it wasn't her i saw with him (christ the last time i saw her was about 6-7 yrs and i have seen the picture of them & their team at work, so maybe i had just jumped to that conclusion?) I'm am not taking away the point that he was there - i know what my boyfriend looks like. but could i have imagined it? could i be loosing my mind again (already did that in March this year)

i tried to call again and his phone is turned off. instantly i smelt a rat. so i went to the airport for the 2.10pm flight and he was no where to be seen.
just as the flight is boarding, i saw him out of the corner of my eye whating for his business partner (female friend of 18 years an issue that has been a major problem). i turned away because i was shaking and when i turned back he was gone. i walked closer to the departure gates and he was all but running onto the plane.
so in my time of comforting him last night with the lose of his friend, he has chosen again to lie about the time of departure (probably because he didn't want me to come out and see him off if she was with him) he lied about going by himself (she knew the guy who was killed also) and he lied about his length of time away possibly because they are going to travel again. we were supposed to be going O/S in 3 weeks time. he did the same to me some 4 years ago. after we broke up, he then took her.
*************

Plenty of my girlfriends & my sister have suggested to go and have coffee with the business partner (oh my god, he would kill me) they all think that she probably has no idea about what she is causing; they think it's all him, almost like a ego trip.

Sweetie - you need to leave him. See if you can find a support group in your area for battered women. You need support right now, to get out. Then you can work on you, and find a healthy, loving relationship.

CTMS
The reason he doesn't want you to meet the "business partner" is not because you might hurt her.

It is because she has no idea about you and he is protecting his relationship with her and his deception of both you and this woman.

From the first post in this thread, everything is screaming to me that he is at the very least romantically and sexually involved with this business partner, and possibly engaged to her or even married to her.

I am so sorry and I think you are in serious denial about this situation. I think you are being lied to and deceived. You are being used. I think you are the OW and you don't even know it.

He is a very controlling man and abusive. He needs to be because he needs to keep you in a set place so as you don't upset his other real life. When you don't play along with this he becomes abusive and even physically harms you.

The actions you are describing remind me of the smokescreens and crazy making behaviour and words of my H when he was involved in his long term affair with OW. All designed to keep me in the dark, doubt my own perceptions and make sure that I was where he wanted me to be and that I didn't suddenly catch him out by doing something impulsive.

As far as OW was concerned, she was hidden away just like you seem to be. Couldnm't have his friends and family knowing about his involvement with her.

Please take a good hard look at all of your posts. You are with a man who beats you, lies to you, controls you with guilt, is basically ashamed to be seen with you, excludes you from his life, but is happy to use you when he feels like it.

Please tell me why you would not run as fast as you can away from this???

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but I think you are very lucky that you are not married to this man and have the opportunity to get out now. I also think that some counseling would benefit you to understand the mechanics of this sort of relationship and your own motives for you part in this.

Good luck
C&S

Abuse doesn't justify his pain. Violence solves nothing, look at all the wars in the world, it only makes things worse. Since you're already separated, find help for yourself. Take care of you and move on. Through all this, I found out that an Affair is not just an affair, it may not has been triggered by your spouse, but some emotional needs we lack, self esteem, other type of problems in our lives that make us be unfaithful. Now your spouse is not doing anything to improve this, he probably doesn't know how to express himself, but abusing you is must making it worse.

Cut it short.... don't go over to his house anymore. Turn off your cellphone and move on! Please!

Big hugs*

I had an abusive (physical & mental) mother and very controlling, I ran away. I'm 22 now, and even though my husband cheated on me, but its not as much pain as what my mom has caused. Her abusive ruined my life I beleive. I think I am striving in spite of everything, but you see those scars are still there and they affect all the decisions that I've made so far!

Anyways.. run girl!! DO not look back. Love doesn't have to hurt like this.

Look at my signature post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Her abusive ruined my life I beleive"

Your life is your responsibility.

Yes it is cherished, maybe the way I said it didn't come out correctly. I've taken responsibility for my own actions, but without the abuse, I would have done better I beleive. Some of the things that occured would not have happened without the abuse cherish.. Things that happend in childhood does affect a person very deeply, its easy to say "your life is your responsibility" at some point it isn't. I've done everything for myself, my failures, my joy, my pain, I've taken credit for them. I am not one of those that blames it all on their past! I control me!

And if you read the rest of my post, I said "In spite of everything, I still thrive." I have taken responsibility for me a long time ago.

Thanks for the reply.
And that is why she should stay away from her husband, that's the only control she has, HERSELF!

CM: I reread my post--which I posted 3:30am in the morning after a *very* long day at work and my body fighting some kind of virus or something. Anyway, I wanted to apologize for the *way* I said what I did--*NOT* the message behind it.

You need to take action to better yourself. You need to understand the relationship is defined and ruled by his abuse. Unless I (and the majority of MB'ers here--reread the entire thread) are just missing something, this man has abused you--mentally, physically, emotionally. You can *NOT* change him--only yourself.

Best of luck and God bless.

L

I’ll try to do a recap so it’s a little more clear. This is going to sound like third person to you CMTS, but bear with me ok? Pretend I’m talking about a friend of yours and see how it looks from the outside.

CMTS has been involved with “bf” for five years. “bf” has hit CMTS to the point she went to the hospital to get Xrays and told her “Look what you (????) have done to us.” CMTS posted on MB on the assumption that she was a WS who was beaten for her “infidelity”. She sincerely believes in her own mind that she has a committed relationship with this man and that she has wronged him. She also believes that he is sexually only with her.

Unfortunately, “bf” has also been involved with a woman for 18 years who CMTS is not allowed to contact b/c she is “special, will always be around, and I will not hurt her” and additionally CMTS knows they lived together at least once since she has known him. She cannot be not sure he lives alone at this point b/c she has not been allowed to have his home phone number b/c “she might call in the middle of the night if they have an argument.” He also could not spend time with her on her birthday b/c “he would have to explain his whereabouts to the person (partner) he was staying with.”

CMTS is not invited to social functions with “bf” but the partner does go with him. He explained to CMTS that “he set it up so people would think they were a couple, that way women wouldn’t hit up on him.” (Huh????) The person he is staying with also goes on the same trips which were promised to CMTS. CMTS has traveled with “bf” in the past and but allowed to have Friday nights only with “bf” b/c he is generously “allowing her space, still letting her spend time with her girlfriends.”

CMTS after reading all the replies responds:

i have maintained this poor dumb women has no idea. she once was he lover, i can bet it was him that cooled it off. she was probably in love with him, just like i am. he has kept her there for his own use; bit like me. she has been at his beacon call, he impresses her, looks after etc with no committment and over time she has just become accustom to it-better to have that than nothing. she gets all she wants excluding the sex.

According to CMTS’s friends and family : Plenty of my girlfriends & my sister have suggested to go and have coffee with the business partner (oh my god, he would kill me)”

So why would he kill you, CMTS? Because his affair with you would be exposed to the light of day, to his woman. You are not his woman, you have GOT to see that by now. I have only repeated what you have told us here, nothing more.

Just b/c he beat you when you “cheated” does not mean anything. The (single) OM in my life beat the living crap out of the other woman he was seeing b/c she “cheated” and he wasn’t doing it out of love, believe me. This woman was as much in the dark as you are now. She gave up her marriage for a man who used her for everything she had and got verbally and physically abused in the process.

It was not until I stepped in during the time H and I separated to reveal myself to her that the relationship ended. She was necessary to me during the affair, but once it was out in the open, and I was with OM, she had to go. I was the WS/GF confronting (another man’s WS) the “OW”. Their relationship ended with exposure of ours. Was I living a soap opera or what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Men like the OM I was involved with and your "bf" are very good at confusing women (read that article! )and you are in a very confused, fogged out state right now. At the end of the day you are better off walking and never looking back but I have a feeling you are so deep in bondage to this man here you won't do that.

Terrible as the truth may be, it WILL set you free. Knowing what I and all the rest of us here know about triangles, the only way to end it is to get it out in the open light of day, however this may land you in the hospital or the morgue, you know? It is up to you to read what is being given you here and put the pieces together for yourself.

You deserve so much more than you have been receiving but if you continue to see this man, you may end up getting exactly more of what you DON'T deserve. Think on this, ok? KB

CMT,

Do you realize he is treating you just like a PIMP treats his Who**s. I am serious, this includes beating the women and making them think they are the "only ones". CMT, has it crossed your mind that "business partner" may be his W or that he has a W somewhere, which is why you cannot call him or be with him other than at special times?

CMT, it is time for you to leave this arrangement (it really is NOT an relationship), and save yourself as well as your future.

Please seriously consider this.

God Bless,

JL

thank you everyone for your wise words. the flood of words is overwhelming.

i have thought about all my examples i have given, worried that i may be over the top (he convinced me that i create this stupid crap in my head) however they are either my feelings or assumptions (bad thing assumption however if you are given nothing else, then you assume). unfortunately there may have been good things amongst it all but it is so hard to work out which is which.

No he doesn't have a wife, we would talk on the phone every night. look in all fairness, yes this has been crap however since Dd when i vented all my anger about things, he has made little by little changes-still not good enough I know.
we made a deal that if i could keep my smart mouth closed for a whole month, he would introduce me the business partner (that was his way of testing if he could trust me) and guess what, we had an agrument and i lost the deal!

i have wondered why i get such a smart mouth with him and say the wrong thing.

couple of things you maybe able enlighten me with, words that have been used here - can you explain please;

'He is a player'? what does that mean?

is it reasonable to have a friend of the opposite sex?

we are both adult survivors of child abuse which only recently we acknowledged behaviour which stems from that. for me, my behaviour is not trusting, not believing, don't trust anyone because they will disappoint or hurt you.
this whole thing in the last week has just resurfaced my belief. for him, workaholic, not trusting to get close to anyone.

we do pretty much mirror each other; except he fights and i do the flight.

you have all been so very patience, kind and given much wisdom. i know all this stuff however i just had a dream that he could just want to be with me. when we are good, we float together but maybe that is even fairy land stuff.

god brings people together to learn lessons throughout our lives. some don't make sense, some you think why or what should i have learnt. if you don't learn a particular lesson, the same lesson will keep coming back. now this is my 3rd abusive relationship? my job that i walked away, was an abusive boss but i walked. i did a temp job (which was great) and they asked me to stay full-time and i said no because i recognised the boss would be abusive.

please have a wonderful day everybody. may god bless you

CMTS, a player just off the top of my head is a man who uses (multiple) women for his own benefit and for different reasons. A player is not concerned with the welfare of the women he plays, only that they continue to please him. When they no longer suit his fancy, they are either dumped or kept on the hook for emergencies. I'm sure someone will come along with a better definition.

In my case player OM used the other woman in his life as a errand girl, a part time free employee, a furniture mover (!), a house cleaner, a Bank of America when he wanted stuff, a companion on the nights I didn't see him (couldn't stand to be "alone") and of course as a sexual playmate. (Don't even ask how long I swallowed the "I don't sleep with her line", LOL)

He didn't give a rat's a** about her and treated her like a second class citizen. She had to sit around waiting for him and if I was on the scene any plans they made were instantly dropped. Crazymaking for her, just like you. Because she had very few or maybe no personal boundaries, she allowed him to mistreat her and ended up not only dumped by him but now divorced with three young children to care for alone.

You have not exaggerated the "bfs" misdeeds and you did not make them up as he suggests. That is part of the crazy making behavior. You are either his girlfriend to the world or you are not, plain and simple. ACTIONS vs WORDS, CMTS No matter which way you word it, his don't add up. SOOOO....Whatcha gonna do about it? Do you have some boundaries? You have the right to have them,you know. KB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knewbetter:
It was not until I stepped in during the time H and I separated to reveal myself to her that the relationship ended. She was necessary to me during the affair, but once it was out in the open, and I was with OM, she had to go. I was the WS/GF confronting (another man’s WS) the “OW”. Their relationship ended with exposure of ours. Was I living a soap opera or what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KB: I only apologized to CM my last post. I owe you one too. Knowing this, makes a heck of alot more sense now, suggesting what you did. Yes, I suppose I would want to know too. But, CM would only be putting herself at danger--mentally and physically. CM still runs the risk of even more rejection if the GF out and out calls her a liar. (Do you really think this "man" hasn't planned for everything, just by reading CM's posts?)

CM: you need to turn your back on the situation and go live your life. (You never had the opportunity to turn your back, have you?) It's OK!!!!! You need to say to yourself that "I will be just fine without any more abuse from him. I will do OK without him."

Now, go.

LINY, you're sweet but you don't owe me an apology at all. One of the beauties of this board is that when one of us leaves something out or misses something, another can step in and help. We all come with different experiences and perspectives. Mine was particularly convoluted and so I can understand CMTS's situation in a way others can't.

I prefaced the original advice by saying it was strange (and it is!) but it wasn't given so much for her to actually do it (b/c there's NO WAY she would have with the "bf" being as in control as he is) The point was to get her to think about it, and in the process of thinking about it realize the REAL reason she can't do it.

Your caution was dead on and something I absolutely SHOULD have explained in further detail but didn't. I'm SO glad you did! We are all working together here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

She is not at the point it seems of being able to own the fact that she's been played big time. His words still override the reality of his actions to her. She is not at a place where she can recognise the truth yet, so my advice was designed to prod her a little. It sounded strange even as I typed it!

My personal take on posting on MB is that because so many of the concepts are counterintuitive (Plan A for example) that giving MB advice (or weird advice like mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) is like planting seeds. Those seeds can grow if they are given proper care but it is up to the person receiving them to do the growing. We can come along side and help water and prune, whatever but in the end it is the individual who has to take responsibility for growth.

CMTS's situation isn't a marriage building issue so much as a personal recovery isue and it would be lovely to see her recover herself, recover her dignity and self respect. I guess we all have to do that if we hope to recover our marriages, no?

Anyway, thanks for the apology but it was not necessary. You did good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> KB

CMTS, I hope we didn't scare you off! You need help to get out of this situation and if not here, please seek it either through IC if you can or on one of the Domestic Violence forums on the Web. Sorry I can't link you, I'm not familiar with them. Maybe someone else can refer her? KB