What do I do if my H will not stop seeing the OW? He says they are just "friends" now. In fact he won't make any concessions at all and gets very angry when I ask for anything at all. In fact it's like he blames me entirely for the PA, even though he says he doesn't. And that he should not have to make ANY effort at all to regain my trust. I found out about the PA by going into his emails. SOmething I have never done before. He changed his password the next day. If I ask him for it, he'll hit the roof. Is my marriage doomed? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This is a man who used to be consumed by me. Said I was the love of his life, after me there could be no other. We have had 5 incredible years together. Then moved country. He hates the country, his job, everything and now he hates me. It is like he did a 180 from that man I used to be married to. He has NO concern for my feelings at all and gets annoyed when I cry. This is my first serious relationship ever and his 100th probably. Everyone tells me I am a strong, beautiful, intelligent woman. But I love him dearly and can't let go. Please help.

The weekends are usually slow around here... I'm sorry that you are hurting.

I really don't have an answer to your question... Only you and your H can determine if your M is doomed or not. It doesn't sound like he's willing to work very hard right now... but that can change.

For now, try to focus on making yourself a better person (not that you are or were a bad person)... but make yourself more "attractive" to your H.

If you're looking for a good book on adultery, Torn Asunder by Dave Carder is a great book...

I'm sure some MB vets will stop by later on this weekend to give you some better advice...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Dear,

I'm no MB veteran but I know what it's like to be waiting for replies so I came over to say hi and give you my "two cents" while America still sleeps and you and I are wide awake in our timezones <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I think all the information you need is all here on MB, in fact you found out many of the things that need to be worked on (Emotional Needs stuff), plan A and B etc. Read up on it. Ask questions here if you're not sure.

Right now you need good tactics to "win" in this situation and to not go under. Winning here means "everybody wins". Even OW if she's eventually forced to face the fact that she's not going to get what she wanted out of the A. It means you do all you can to make your H come to his senses and getting the M to blossom again, and yourself. It means taking the sound advice of people like Dr. Harley who has counselled many people like you and me.

If you haven't read about the "fog" here then let me warn you - WS can say pretty nasty and hurtful things when their A is discovered. If he has loved you (and still does no doubt) then deep down HE KNOWS he's very, very wrong and very, very guilty of hurting you. But our egos have safety mechanisms to prevents us from seeing reality when we think we can't handle it. Many WS feel very depressed, some to the point of being suicidal, when they come out of the fog and realise what they have done and how they have hurt the woman or the man that they love.

So to avoid facing this guilt the ego will lie to us - will change reality - will try to blame others, go into denial, make up excuses etc.

You'll need to plan A to establish NC with this OW. After that you'll need to keep working on your EN and his EN for the rest of your life, as do all of us.

And yes, get in shape. Work out. For you. I have found it a great way to vent my anger, to feel better about myself. It will make you feel better about sex, too.

Ok that were my two cents, for what it's worth. Keep posting my dear. There's a lot of wisdom here. Of course there are also people that are still in too much pain to give good advice, sometimes. Stick to the MB principles.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It means a lot to know that I am not alone. I'm moving out to my parents place tonight. He says he needs time away from me to think. It's sort of a Plan B I guess. I don't know. I feel we are going to drift even further away. Feels like I'm giving him a free ticket to see the other woman.
He knows I'm hurting and says there is nothing he can do about it. NOt that he really cares to I think.
I've tried everything to put more deposits into the love bank. I did all those things that he said I stopped doing, like sleeping naked again, showing more interest in sex. He takes it as being "manufactured" or me trying to manipulate the situation to get what I want.
Sex is one sided, he'll only let me give him BJs. (Sorry to be crude) But he can't get it up for me in any other way. I feel like a hooker sometimes. He certainly pays no attention to my sexual needs. Once he's done he's out of the room.
He is behaving like the agrieved party all the time and he doesn't seem to get that I have been blindsided by all of this. I told him you are like a hit and run driver. Damn the consequences.
I don't blame him entirely for everything that happened. Yes I lost interest in sex, yes I've been surly the last few months because of working and studying full time. But why couldn't he have come to me first?

He is using all the typical WS excuses. As you read more here, you will see the same words and actions over and over.

When he says he needs time alone, it really means that he needs time to continue the affair.

Is there any possiblity that he would move out of your home instead of you having to move?

I'd rather move out actually. I'd rather be with my family right now. I actually had a conversation with the OW today. She says that she is only friends with him (I believe her, I'm pretty good with body language), but I don't think H feels the same way. He told me he knows that he does not love her and it would never work but there is that infatuation there. It's as strong as love. (Body language that I am reading again).
I think I need to be with my family to strengthen my mental resolve for myself. I told him that I can't expect him to fall in love again with me if I am in this state. My nerves are frayed. I'm normally pretty steely and strong. I told him he is the only person on the planet that has this kind of power over me. He didn't take that too well.
But if I'm going to be that sexy vivacious confident woman that he fell in love with, I need time to fix myself. Right now he is finding fault with everything about me, from my weight to my attitudes, to what I say. I'm not even that fat, I'm thinner than I've ever been in our entire married life. And everything I say now has a big dose of hurt in it, but he won't give me a break.
Why do we stay and still love someone even though the love bank is dry and the WS is so willing to give it all up when I'm trying to deposit as many credits into his love bank as I can?
I told him "I've have forgiven you for A LOT of things over the past month. Things that I NEVER thought I would forgive a H for. But you are holding on to these stupid little grudges and won't let go. Why can't you cut me some slack?" The ball is in his court now.

This is my first time so please excuse - I do not know all your terms. Two years ago I discovered my H was having an affair with a girl from his company that was coming to town about once a month for business. After he got caught, he promised he would end it. Everything was great, I was feeling sexier,sex was better than before and then last year I found out she had been coming to town a few times and they had planned on doing some business out of town(where they could spend the night together). He again promised to stop. I just found out last week that he went to see her again and they spent the night together. He says it is nothing, he is not perfect, that she wanted to be with him more. that he does not want our marriage to break up. He has even given a four months notice to quit his job p to take the temptation away. I am not getting any emptional support. In fact he got mad when I asked him to write her and tell her it is over for good and that he loves me. Does that sound like anything y'all have been going through?

The difference is, you husband is still capable of sleeping with you. My husband is completely cold to me now. He feels no sexual desire for me whatsoever.
We are having a trial separation. This is the first night and truth be told I am dying here. I miss him so much I want to just call him up or run home but I know I can't. All i want is to cuddle with him again. I want things to be the way they used to be. I don't know if that is possible anymore.

I hear ya.

My WW won't touch me. We were separated for 6 months. She came back to help with our child. Says the marriage is over and sleeps in a separate room. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's tough right now, but you can and will get through this.

Sure sucks though, doesn't it?

dewt

I feel for you dewt. All I want is to be able to hold him and touch him like I did a couple of months ago. I used to nuzzle his neck while he was brushing his teeth or we used to just lay in bed while I stroke his chest or hair.
Nothing kills your self esteem more than your spouse finding you sexually unappealing. I told him I have never ever felt so ugly in my entire life.
I has been one day since I've moved out and I am having major separation anxiety. I woke up at 4am to call him because I knew he was awake and he said "I thought you said you weren't going to call". Nice.
I was in a minor fender bender today before work and his concern for me was about as apparent as the insurance agent.
I need to be able to make myself strong, and I'm trying but it's not easy when you feel like trash that that just got thrown out.

I have had long involved discussions with my MIL and sis in law about my situation. They want this marriage to work and their suggestion right now is a no contact separation with my H. Plan B in full I guess. Does this really work? Or does this just give him more opportunity to see that other woman and forget about me????
My MIL says right now I'm like a little puppy dog biting at his ankles. I'm stroking his ego because now he's got 2 women to choose from. And because I'm this emotional wreck, I'm not the more attractive choice. It makes sense but I'm scared to death of doing it.
The state my husband is in right now he'll just think I'm playing mind games with him and think "Well F*** her then"
Does this kind of separation work??????? I'm so afraid......
Anyone has tried this and have thier WS come back? Or does it just cause more alienation????????

The marriagebuilders program is around 3 or 4 months of a good Plan A. That is critical - to show him what a great wife you could be, and that it is safe to come back.

After that, time for Plan B.

But your MIL is right about you not being attractive in your present state to your husband. Just think - the OW is probably all happy and kind all of the time. On the other hand, you are a wreck (like most of us were at first).

So we have to pick you up, dust you off, and help you first. We have all been through this, and things do get better. Stick with us.

JWK
So sorry for the situation in your life that finds you here.

I am sending you lots of cuberhugs..

Anyway your question is if your marriage is doomed. Fact is there is no way of knowing that right now.

Many people here have found that by adopting the marriage builder's guidelines they have been able to recover their marriages and end up with a happy relationship. Others have not recovered their marriages but have been able to recover themselves and strnghten their own outlook on life and make personal improvements.Others have just plain needed the support fo other MBs and a place to vent about thier sorrow and frustration.

So welcome. I am so glad you found the place. I am with believer on the fact that I wish you could stay in the house and let him move out if he wants to leave the marriage.

Please for starters read all the information on this site. Get Harleys books and read them. Other good books are Torn Asunder and Love MUst be Tough (this book fits with you MILs ideas).

Believer is right. Although Plan B may be warranted, a reasonably good last impression of you as a loving and vialble alternative to OW is needed. This is where Plan A is helpful. Here you basically try to end the affair by trying to be the best you that you can be. Filfilling the ENs that your H will allow you to fulfill. Avoiding disrespectful judgements and LOve busting. It does not mean humiliating yourself or financially destituting yourself in order not to upset H. If you are humiliated by giving your H BJs and him then just walking out, I would suggest this may dangerously drain your own love bank and I suggest that you truthfully express to your H that you find yourelf unable to fulfill that need at present.

It is difficult when your very presence can seem like a LB to H. Try and remember that your H is like an addict protecting his fix. Many wonderful people have become thieves and prostitutes to abtain a fix when drug addicted. This was because the addiction was controlling them. Your H will lash out at you to keep his fix for OW.

Your H cannot maintain a relationship with the OW as a friend. To explain this to him is hard. If he will listen, try suggesting that if you were to have a sexual relationship with someone that he knows, would he like you to still maintain a close friendship with that person.


If you don't think you can do a good plan A then go for it. Plan B. If plan A is only going to lessen his feelings for you, then maybe it is Plan a.

I would suggest, reading up on it all now before you make any decisions. Some of the best advice I received, was that I didn't have to decide then while I was overcome with emotion and shock.
Take your time. You are processing a big loss in your life. Eat well, get some sleep. See a doctor if you can't and get something to help you. See a counselor and talk about how you are feeling in all this. If you need antidepresseants, then get them.

Do you have any children. How old are you and how long have you been married. Is thi the first affair to rock your relationship.

Look after you right now
Hugs again
C&S

Plan A also includes exposing the affir to the light of day. You are on the right track in that your Hs family obviously know about OW.

You clearly know OW. I wouldn't believe a word that she tells you. Remember she has engaged in a sexual relationship with your H knowing full well that he was married to you and that he was deceiveing you.

Is the OW married? Does she work with your H? Expose the affir to her H if she is married, to the workplace etccc.

You see secrecy feeds affiars. Their little fantasy worlf will start to crack as reality starts to hit when it is exposed to the light of day.

Your H will be very angry with exposure. (Shame, Protecting his fix again) But exposure is a necessary part of a good Plan A.

C&S

Thanks for the advice C&S. H will not listen to much that I say right now. Everything that I say I'm either manipulating him or "you think my feelings will change if I don't see her"
Every time I try to Plan A we land up having a huge blow out because he starts to get pissed off and I start to get emotional and the more emotional I get the more pissed off he gets.
Even explaining to him how I felt about doing the BJs, I did it very calmly etc, he stormed off and said "Fine don't bother then".
I've been away for a couple of nights now and tonight is the first night he contacted me and not the other way around.
I think my presence is a LB right now, because he seems happier with me not in the house. I know I'm too much of an emotional wreck right now to not show that in anything I say or do, so maybe Plan A is impossible.
We have been married 5 and a hlaf years. No kids. But our marriage was INCREDIBLE. We were always together, always adored each other. Knew what the other was thinking, always touching cuddling holding hands. Now it's like he thinks he imagined it. And yes this is definitely the first A. In fact his family is completely SHOCKED that he would because they knew our marriage, they knew how happy we was. They don't want this to end anymore than I do, but his mom said I can't lose my dignity to get him back. SHe's been there herself.
I look at cause and effect. IN the last 6 months, we've moved country, we've both started new jobs, he's away from his family for the first time. I started studying and became surly because of the stress of working and studying full time. I just want my old H back. I want US back.

jwk,

It really is a bad idea for the BS to move out, because it only gives the WS more freedom to carry on the affair. You actually ENABLE the affair by doing that. Do you want the OW to move into your house and take your place? Because that is a definite possibility.

Nor can you work on your marriage if you aren't there.

I think you should stay in Plan A for a few months and try to meet his needs before you go to Plan B. I suspect that maybe sex is one of his top needs and this is what has alienated him. If you go to Plan B too soon, it is just a relief to the WS and an opportunity for him to cement his affair. However, if you conduct a good Plan A, you will give him something to miss when you go into Plan B.

But first things first. I would read up on Plan A so you understand it and then get yourself back home. You can't work on a marriage if you aren't there!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=000176

Plan A is not easy. Please read the links that Melody has posted for you. Love busts can kill all your hard work and you are back to square one.

From your posts I get the feeling that you have been "educating" your spouse about affairs. Unfortunately, this would be seen as a huge lovebust by H. Deep down I am sure your H knows the truth of what you are saying, however for him to admit that right now would be to face the reality of what he is doing. He can't right now. Better to blame it all on you. Any lovebust gives him the ammunition to blame you some more.

Your job is to not give him that ammunition. Avoid constant talk about the affair or the relationship. Just try and identify his major emotional needs and try and fulfill the ones he will let you. And above all no lovebusts. However, expressing how you feel in relationship to behaviour does not have to be a love bust, if it is courteously and repectfully done. That is not spewed forth with venom. Rather When you do ..... I feel ..... Do not expect anything in return. that is for anything you do for H or for anything you express about your feelings. He is incapable of that right now. Your job is to be a great you irrespective of his treatment of you. Hopefully in time he will start to notice just how sweet you are and begin to see you in a better light and start to have some doubts about where he is headed. That is when you are ready for plan B. When he is on the fence trying to decide.

I agree with Melody
Get thee to your home. You need to be there. Maybe take a few days to feel the love and support you need from your family and recoup yourself for the hard road ahead of you. Then get back and show him girl.
C&S

Thanks for the advice. I'm still torn. I feel my husband is already on the fence. He's not staying because of me and to save our marriage, he's staying to determine which one of us he wants. He said so himself.
I tried very hard meeting his emotional needs for the 5 weeks after the whole A came to light. It just made me feel more and more used. I guess I can't expect much back right now.
He would never let the girl move in to our house because my parents don't know about the A. He does not want them to know. I don't want them to know because they will then take charge and make decisions that are mine to make.
I agree though that we can't work on a marriage if I'm not there, that is what is tearing me in 2 directions. On what hand what my MIL says makes total sense, but I'm afraid of "Out of sight, out of mind" I have to give this more thought

And another thing yes sexual fulfillment is a big part of what caused the alienation. I was just lazy and tired but not lacking desire. But according to him, he knows he;s not going to get much sexual fulfillment out of the relationship with the OW either because she's a little prudish and there are many things that she won't do that I will (including the BJs). But how I do I try to fulfill his sexual needs if he does not find me the least bit desirable anymore? Affection is not a problem, that's always there from my end.
He really doens't want to do any recreational activity with just me, he wants to go and do stuff as a "double date" with the OW and her BF. Isn't that STRANGE????????