This is going to be an inappropriately short post, considering it's significance. But Dylan and I had part 2 of a very serious conversation last night and I thought I'd post the results before whipping off to work.

I surrender.

It's over.

No big crisis... I'm not crushed or freaking out. (yet)

But it's been 10 months since 'this' all began. Many years longer if you look at 'everything'. I do not have the fortitude to carry this torch anymore.

From this point forward, my efforts will be to learn to get along with Dylan as a 'friend' and room-mate. I don't have real high hopes for this, but I'm going to give it my best effort anyway.

Back in Jan, when I first posted about all this, someone pointed out that it's been many years since Dylan showed any kind of real 'in love' feelings and that I should probably just face facts.

Well, I am.

Gotta run.

Ciao all.

dewt

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

just keep doing what you can, when you can, for as long as you can, continued prayers to you AND your family, RR

dewt - Might be time to rest up and take care of you. This stuff gets exhausting for sure. I've been going through this for 16 months, and it isn't easy. But once you give up on changing or expecting anything from the WS, is does get easier.

deut,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From this point forward, my efforts will be to learn to get along with Dylan as a 'friend' and room-mate. I don't have real high hopes for this, but I'm going to give it my best effort anyway.

Back in Jan, when I first posted about all this, someone pointed out that it's been many years since Dylan showed any kind of real 'in love' feelings and that I should probably just face facts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What are the ground rules for your co-habitation? If it is that neither one of you are going to date (that is, have affairs), and that you're going to focus on friendship and co-parenting---then you probably have a decent shot to rekindle love.

If you and dylan are going to continue to have affairs, than this is unlikely to work, because from what I can see you still have strong feelings for each other.

'In love' feelings can be recreated---but you need a plan and a willingness to execute it. I've been very disappointed in the two of you because I've seen no willingness to seek the professional help the two of you need to do this and to be successful in parenting your children. You would think that after both of you being here you would see and understand the value in doing the work correctly, in order to have a safe, happy marriage and to provide your kids a stable environment---instead, I see a combination of pleasure seeking and flight reactions by two people who just ought to know better.

I think giving up doesn't mean it is over. It just means that it won't hurt you much now, and things should get easier now. If it turns out to be in love again, you've got a bonus. That is the stage I am trying to reach now.

Howdy folks,

I, for once, am pretty much speechless. The magnitude of this is verrrry slowly starting to sink in.

We will need to sit down with pen and paper in hand and draw up the 'ground rules'. I have a few ideas, but won't spout them off until I've had a chance to go over it with Dylan.

She has made it pretty clear how she feels about being married to me. Not just over the last two nights, and not just over the last 10 months, but over the years.

People have posted over and over that 'some marriages aren't meant to be saved' and as much as I've always hated hearing that, it looks like it's something I'm going to have to accept.

Anyway, I'm still reeling and I know this ain't much of a post. Thanks for dropping in.

dewt

dewt,

first things first,((((((HUGS!!!!))))) to you.

I feel ya.

Sometimes, it is all about being a friend. Best friends. You are where you are. If you find that is not working for you, then plan B, and ws needs to go, it is.

I know you are reeling. I think I hear fogspeak from your ws. But you just need to know her EN's and if she is still there ya need to go and figure that one out as long as she is there.

If and when you cannot take it anymore, you start to lose that love, your LB is empty, then it is time to reconsider.

My suggestion is plan A for the MOMENT. Only because I just don't have a whole lot of info on your situation.

Praying for you. And by the way, you are truely worthy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , especially as you want to save your marriage/family.

I don't know if you are of the Christian faith, but I would be turning this over to God, and asking what it is YOU need to do to deal with this situation.

I know it is hard and that you are hurting. We all care about you here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LOVE IN CHRIST,
Miss M

Dewt

To me surrendering is the first step in "becoming". It is a beginning, not an end.

Be true to yourself, and to your own beliefs. You are where you need to be, experiencing what you need to experience in order to get to where you are supposed to be. In other words you really never had a choice but to make the decisions that you have made. That is part of surrendering and also part of accepting. I know that sounds very vague, but that is the best I can do at the moment.


Weaver

dewt,

Hey, I know you are caring about your family.

This is Good, good, good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Being a good parent, and a best friend is okay.

I don't know exactly where you are.

If you cannot be a good friend to ws with continuing contact, let us know. I say plan a for now, but if you can't do it maybe you should think about plan b.

Sometimes ws needs to be on their own and figure that out. I know you were in plan A while ws was gone. She is back.

Sounds like the fog is as thick as pea soup.

Anyway, thank you so much for responding to my post.

By the way, you are WORTHY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ! Just step back from all of this and figure out what is healthiest for you, your little one(s) and your marriage. Don't react.

God Bless you and prayers goin' your way!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

deut:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People have posted over and over that 'some marriages aren't meant to be saved' and as much as I've always hated hearing that, it looks like it's something I'm going to have to accept. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, when I see that posted I think it's a huge cop out. If two people are willing to do the work required, pretty much any marriage can be saved. Including those that have infidelity, physical abuse, alcoholism, and other troubles.

But---you have to do the work. What's Dylan's excuse??

Sure, when two people are willing to do the work...

However, that isn't the case.

And to be honest, even when I was doing my best to do the work, I screwed it up.

During the affair, I did my best to 'Plan A'. That is, no disrespectful judgements, no angry outbursts and no selfish demands. I tried to be pleasant and not drive her away. All I really managed to do was fall to pieces.

And after the separation I kept trying. And I stumbled a few times. And after stumbling, I got up, dusted myself off and kept trying.

But I'll tell ya, for the three weeks she was away, back in Smalltownsville, a lot of thoughts and feelings bubbled up to the surface. Years of rejection and unmet emotional needs kept dominating my thoughts. I'm not saying that I've always been perfect and she has not... but there are key areas/needs that are sooooooo important to me that were never satisified. And to be honest, I'd almost grown to accept that. UNTIL I saw her behave towards another person in the exact manner that I'd been dying to have her act towards me.

When it was first suggested that she and I just live together and not work on our marriage, I thought, 'fog talk', agreed to it but decided that I would follow your advice (K) and Plan A for three months (or until it worked - whichever came first)

I can't do it anymore. I've got huge issues around abandonment and rejection. Issues that go waaaaay back and issues that have been directly attacked over the years and specifically made me weak in areas that (to have done this properly) I should really have been strong.

She says she can't get over me having sex with my ex. She says she's not even up to trying. It's too big.

I feel like I don't have the stregnth to maintain my resolve anymore. I don't want to lose anymore love for her. I feel like if I accept what she says and just try to move on, I can put so many of those issues away and we have a (slim) chance of making this insane arrangement work. If I don't respect her decision, and keep carrying the torch, I will crumble. I will steadily lose love for her, drown in my insecurities and resentments and this will implode.

Kicking her out and firing up th'ol plan B is not going to work.

Anyway, speaking of work, it's time for me to split. I've pointed out this thread to her and invited her to post.

dewt

deut,

Sleeping with your x was not part of Plan A, and it was incredibly stupid. If for no other reason, it gives Dylan a tangible reason for not working on the marriage (on top of her other issues).

Bottom line is that I see no commitment to get a professional involved here. If there isn't, you should be in Plan B now. No if's, and's or but's... What you've currently got going is obviously not going to work.

Sit on the couch tonight, together---and ask yourselves if you're both very proud of what a freakin' disaster you've made this marriage and family. Ask each other why your pain is so bad that you can't find it in yourself to put this past aside to attempt to do the work to heal yourselves, your marriage, and your family. The path I see you guys on right now isn't going to make you, dylan, or the kids better---either in the short term or in the long run.

I will pipe in here, if only for a moment....

Dewt is at work, and I have both children here, and we are planning an outdoor excursion, so I have not much time...

I will return to post this evening, as I think there are issues to address, and things I would like to say...

I just wanted Dewt et al. to know I will be commenting..., and yes, K, I will list my "excuses" for you as well...


Dylan

Dylan and Dewt,

Hmmmmm...don't really know what to say to you guys. I've thought of you often and hoped that things would work out.

Listen to K, he does know what he's talking about.

Hugs and prayers going out to both of you!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by K:
<strong> Sleeping with your x was not part of Plan A, and it was incredibly stupid. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Stupid. For many reasons. Can't take it back though. If I could, believe me, I would.

Can't take anything back. Can only look back, try to understand where I went wrong, and not make the same mistakes. Try to see where I didn't go right, and make sure that I start (and keep) doing that. And yes, counselling will play an important part of that. Nobody on this end thinks counselling is not mandatory for us both.

For almost a month, she was away (with Mini) in OW territory. I believe her that there was no contact. I was alone and spent a lot of time pretty deep in thought. Not good thoughts either. Bitterness, resentfulness, the magnitude of the betrayal washed over me with more profound force than I have yet felt. I lost more love units over that time than at any other time in our history.

Don't get me wrong, I love her. Always will. But the fight is gone. If this is what she wants, then I'm not going to stand against it anymore. The only hope our relationship has/had is if both of us dedicate ourselves to making it work. Otherwise we'll be on the same see-saw we've been riding for 6 years. I'd rather set on fire and thrown in a hole than go back to that.

I don't have any excuses. I've been fighting a personal war with HUGE issues (and losing the odd battle) to try to keep myself faithful and devoted. Or at least do the right thing.

I don't have the stamina to keep it up. Not alone.

Not a cry of desperation here. Simple statement of fact.

OW said she "wasn't taking Dylan away from (me), she'd already left long ago." And ya-ya, I know... typical.

Regardless, it was the truth.

Having said that, and looking back at parts of my post here, I see that my tone could come across as despairing or defeatist. Oddly, such is not the case. Much of this is written with a wry grin on my face.

I'll do my best to deal with this (semi)new scenario. I do have doubts about its feasibility, but considering my list of alternatives right now, it's not looking so bad. (wry grin) Worse case scenario, we split up but it's amicable and planned and everyone will have a chance to prepare.

Bottom line:

I really and truly have no idea what I'm doing.

I do know that, as a wise person once noted, I don't do well when my needs aren't being met. My biggest need right now, and it's at an undeniable state, is to know what the hel... *ahem* heck my life is. Where I'm going. Out of limbo.

This is what she wants. Separation didn't change her mind. Plan B didn't change her mind. No contact with OW didn't change her mind. I sure as heck gave her a coupla good reasons not to change her mind.

So maybe it's time for me to just respect her wishes and let it go.

dewt

disclaimer:
I know I haven't addressed a lot of all your points, please excuse... I'm still unloading thougths and feelings. I've read all your posts with gratitude and hope you will keep posting.

<small>[ August 04, 2004, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

K, to start with one of your questions, we initially agreed not to date for some time, to allow for an equilibrium witin our own relationship to occur...but as of late, Dewt has stated that he will, more likely than not, not be celibate....it is a choice he has made, knowing his # 1 need is affection...and intimacy...

I have also made a choice, and that is not to date...

I have many issues and problems that come with my emotional baggage, ad I did not lie when I told Dewt 7 months ago that I was on a journey of self....I have alot to think about, many issues to address..many bitter, resentful thoughts and feelings to rid myself of...much work to do..I am of no use to myself right now, so why would I inflict a damaged me on someone else?!?!

Even if I was to fight for my marriage, it would be years....years before I was of any use to Dewt...I quite frankly, feel too damaged...too tired...too disappointed... repeatedly.

I'm done. I'm sad and devastated (but shouldn't be allowed because I am the WS)...but there is no more fight in me...

the ex thing is simply too big to get into at this late an hour...

as for Dewt, I have indeed made it plain how I have felt about you all these years...I have loved you...body and soul...loved you...but with the feeling of being constantly disappointed, with the feeling of always coming second to the ex, to feeling alone and then betrayed, but I never left, I stayed, but couldn't desire you and show you that love in the way you needed...ok....but buddy, I have loved you...and you know it..the things we have been through, the things I have stayed through...you yourself have admitted no one else on God's geen earth would have stuck by you...

that's how I felt about being married to you...9 years of protecting, caring, loving, forgiving, overlooking, procrastinating...some of it (your #1 EN) just was not delivered in the manner in which you needed it to be...

K, I agree, if 2 people are willing, and like Dewt says, I am just no longer willing,and as he stated the other night, if in a few years, I come to my senses, and want him back, and when it is "too late" as he says it will be, then those are the consequences of my actions now...

I cannot do this....not again...

I do not have it in me to go through what I did 6 years ago again ...yet now involving the most evil and psychopathic woman I have ever encountered...

no.

In this scenario, I am the wayward, but have felt repeatedly betrayed by Dewts actions, which were directly contrary to the words he was using with me....how ironic...to be the wayward and feel multiple betrayals....but all he can see and feel is what I have inflicted on him....

I remember that pain...as a betrayed you never really do forget...and I have now to live with the knowledge that I too, have inflicted the greatest physical and emotional pain ever...on a beloved human being...

I am not allowed to be the betrayed here....

If I stay his wife, I have to deal with this....try to forgive, recover, work through...

we saw how well I did with recovery last time...6 years and the dam burst...

there is no getting through this, not for me, K...this is too big...she and sex with her represents too much....9 years of a life in which her evil schemes had a large part in the chaos and stress, not to mention police presence....

and to say you want to be married, posting on MB, have advice telling you straight out to keep your pants zipped, that hey, she may not be coming back to you, but with her there, you have a great chance to plan A, to make the impression you want...etc...and to throw it all away and then to come back here, and want sympathy and understanding..repeatedly ...after having said you've forgiven your wife her affair, and to end a relationship with someone because of your marriage and feelings for your wife...and 20 days later, be having sex with your ex-wife in the new apartment you hope to recover your marriage in, while your children are in the next room....

it is all too much...

I believe Pepperband...Dewt is self-sabotaging...

and to call these sexual events "stumbles"....well, then he truly has no idea of the magnitude of these "stumbles"...again, I nod my hat to Pepperband...these are not stumbles, these are Dewt repeateedly throwing himself off of a cliff....and then being upset that his legs are broken...

3 sexual partners in 6 months, but he tries to convinve me that our marriage is worth saving??!?!...

his excuse being that he is only human?!?!...and weak?!...

I can't buy that...to paraphrase ARK....


ANYTHING but the ex.....perhaps, it could have been different, as i told Dewt myself the other night...it may have been surmountable...but she's the cherry on top of it all...making it insurmountable....it was a slap in the face for my affair...knowingly...a slap in the face...that isn't love...but then again, neither is having an affair....

and don't get me started on the sexual issues I need to deal with....dewt may want to overlook it, and believe steadfastly that I used a same-sex partner as an exit-move...but I obviously could not have gone in that direction solely for the purposr of leaving Dewt....it wasn't like that...it may be sick and twisted, but there was POJA on it...until dewt asked me to stop...by then I had feelings...feelings I felt needed to be explored....

I mean my god, what if this was the reason that I could never be what Dewt needed...???....right or wrong, true or not, I felt at the time, it needed to be explored, because it could explain much...perhaps.

I didn't leave Dewt over the years...and I didn't leave 6 years ago after his affair...even though every bone in my body told me to...I knew cheating was his exit pattern (just as these times were used, I believe), and I have to date, been cheated on by almost everyone I have ever been involved with...and I have never been the one to leave...and even this past January...Dewt left me....with reason...don't get me wrong...with reason....but in the end, I still couldn't and wouldn't leave him...

past trauma....I just can't watch the pattern anymore, just can't keep being untrue to myself and finding myself in a place I shouldn't be..

Dewt and I need to learn to be friends...we need to learn how to be parents...there has been so much stress and chaos....

and yes, I worry about his dating..because of all this stress and chaos...he needs to breathe...and rest...and get in touch with himself and learn to control and master his needs...

I love him very much, K....I will love him until my deathbed...but after the ex, he would have to live a celibate life with me, because right now,all that I feel is.... physical intimacy....is not an option...nor would it be...my flesh crawls...I can't explain it without sounding like a frootloop...but I do believe that Dewt understands...he equated sex with her to beastiality once, not long ago....

6 degrees of seperation......I don't do animals.

this is rambling and disjointed....it is late, and I wrote out of my head..not out of my journal with formed thoughts....

I need a bigger block of time to fully explain my feelings and my decisions...

Dewt deserves more than I can give right now....more than I will be able to give for the next LONG while...

I just have nothing left to give....hollow...empty...

no, I am not proud of the disaster I have wrought...

but I am tired..

... and this seems to be the way to make it all stop without carrying bitterness and resentment into our future (whatever form it takes)....

bottomline....I am stubborn ..I cannot forgive the last indiscretion...my affair or not, I cannot forgive intimacy with the antichrist...

Dylan

Dylan,

Thanks for writing. And I thought you were going to tell me of problems you thought were insurmountable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What you tell me is perfectly understandable. The fact that you still "love" deut is a good thing, as far as recovery goes. My major issue (without "knowing" your side), is that deut talks the talk, but has no freakin' indication of being able to walk the walk.

Would you be willing to be involved in MC with someone "good"---assuming that there wasn't a push for you to resume intimacy with deut until he had done the work necessary for you to feel better about this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we initially agreed not to date for some time, to allow for an equilibrium witin our own relationship to occur</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounded like a good plan---to work on maintaining a relationship, learn to avoid lovebusters, meet the other's emotional needs that you're willing to meet (or have met) in a way that the other is enthusiastic about. This would be a great first step for marriage recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...but as of late, Dewt has stated that he will, more likely than not, not be celibate....it is a choice he has made, knowing his # 1 need is affection...and intimacy...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you've been together for a month or so---and he's unwilling to stick by the original agreement. The threat he uses is "put out, or I'll see my X for some animal sex, just like a few months ago..."

Nice. I must have missed that in the MB manual.

The bottom line is that, from your POV, I bet this marriage is recoverable. But Deut has got to back up the talk with real, accountable actions. I disagree with you about him "needing" more than you can give. He wants more---but he's accountable for you being in a state where you're unable to even think about giving to him again.

So Deut---what's it going to be? More talk and self-sabotage??---which is why I stopped wasting my time posting to you. Or are you really going to demonstrate that you can care about your wife and family, by getting into appropriate marriage counseling and establishing a new track record of appropriate marriage behavior? The ball has been in your court for a long time. It's time to get serious...

And Dylan---hold onto a consistent plan of not lovebusting and meeting the parental needs that you both have and cherish. Your feelings of loathing for him sexually could change---given a strong demonstration of self-control on deut's part, coupled with a nice move somewhere far away from the X. I have some understanding of your frustrations---I don't love the guy and only know him through here---and I've wanted to throttle him on several occasions.

I'll be praying for you both.

dewt, dylan:

I probably shouldn't be posting 2day, because I'm in such a bad mood, but I just read this thread and need 2 get this off my chest:

Do you 2 realize what you have here???

COMMUNICATION

Sure, you're 2th ridiculously bogged down in the drama of "he did this, so I did that" or "I'm tired, I don't have it in me 2 do this anymore" back and forth. 2 bad you can't read this from an outsider's viewpoint (for that matter, neither can I), because if you "ignore" the life-altering ramifications of the choices that you're 2th avoiding making NOW, the whole thing is pretty damned funny.

The communication is your salvation. Don't underestimate that. I do all the time. You 2 are able 2 tell each other your innermost insecurites. I got snapped at last week for telling my W "I care about you." Not even ILY.

I'm tired 2. But you know what? Think about this for a minute (no, think about it for several hours, and then communicate your thoughts 2 one another): Whether you "give up", "surrender" or go down fighting, you will continue 2 take this drama and your insecurities with you for as long as you 2th shall live.

Might as well work with someone you CAN talk 2.

My advice? Work 2gether on this. Stop harping on unmet ENs (the scope of misinterpretation regarding ENs and personal responsibility in these sitches is really starting 2 piss me off). Give a little and meet the other's ENs from time 2 time just because it's the right thing 2 do, and stop fretting over whether some past wrong (recent or ancient, it doesn't matter) is insurmountable or not.

You have NO choice but 2 overcome your past.

-ol' 2long

Dylan & Dewt,

I know and respect K's guidance and support through your ordeal so just consider this another MBers 2 cents. Pull out the good of it and discard the rest.

What I have seen through both your postings is that your love each other but can't or won't meet each others needs.

U dylan need to be 'friends' with Dewt for the sake of the children? But are you really being anyone's friend with this behavior? Don't you think your children will feel they are being used to bring more hurt to their dad? What kind of friend are you being to Dewt if he has to see but not touch or complete his act of love for his family? Won't you be in the way of when he does find someone to share his family and love with?

Dewt, I know you are tired and hurt. Not getting your needs met and being on both sides of the fence is a hard place t/b. You have by your own actions worn out your wife's welcome mat for you. Knowing you can't fix the past, you now are left with your children, someone who is not willing to be your W and your future. Does that sum it up?

It seems like both of you are willing to accept less for finanical considerations. Don't think that plan will last very long. I don't care if the zippers are stuck on both your pants. Nope. Needs eventually take over if not controlled for the right reasons and abstainance is not always an acceptable option.

My question to both of you is what are each of you willing to do for your family? Be married or divorce?

Jmho, of course. I would like to see each of you and your family have a happier future. But you can't stay in limbo and expect to keep living as if all is well.

L.

I must admit, it is nice to have access to a computer that does not drive one insane in the attempt to type a few words......

both Dewt and I have the utmost respect for you, K, your opinions, your POV, and of course, respect for all you have been through yourself...

you made a mention of not "knowing my side"...I would love to enlighten..but what, specifically are you referrring to?..the affair, emotions,...what aspect of my "side" is it that would clarify anything for you?...

as for your comment "deut talks the talk, but has no freakin' indication of being able to walk the walk."

well, yes...and watching this over the past months does not allow for many love units to be deposited...JUST AS my fence sitting and keeping him in limbo did nothing to increase the units I was depositing....

I guess I expected better, or just different....I was the wayward...it was expected that I would be in a "fog", that I would fence sit...these are earmarked qualities in a WS....

I think I hoped for better behaviour from Dewt....even if I was embroiled in my fence-sitting....

even without a plan for recovery, I felt we both understood that the no-dating and celibate aspect was the only way to go without "rocking the boat"....giving us both the time required to heal, and be able to pursue romantic entanglements when healed, whole and able to contribute something positive in a relationship...even if the relationships were not with each other...

you said:
"So, you've been together for a month or so---and he's unwilling to stick by the original agreement. The threat he uses is "put out, or I'll see my X for some animal sex, just like a few months ago..."

I need to remedy this misunderstanding...no, Dewt has not threated me with "putting out or he'll go elsewhere"...and I would certainly hope their are no designs with the ex...she has been forgiven by her boyfriend and is in her relationship...

yes, he is unwilling to stick by what we initially discussed...but admittedly because of his weakmness for emotional contact...that it is need to be held, kissed, touched and admired that has him in a mental place where he just wanted to know from me where we really stood, so thaat if he found himself in aposition to accept affection, he would not feel as if he were "betraying" us...

this past weekend, before mini and I's return to Quebec, he found himself again in a position where he might have weakened..alone, inebriated in a car with a single lady driving him home from a party...he could have explored the situation, but chose not to...but was then left feeling conflicted, because if he and I were truly "through", then he need not take my feelings and his loyalties into consideration, and he could guilt-free, pursue some affection...

I just neede to clarify that..he did not threaten me with having sex with the ex again....it is not a question of me putting out...and I can't have you believing that....

the marriage is no longer recoverable....that is my POV...a relationship of another sort is recoverable...but not an intimate marriage type...

if you read Kat's post on safe places...that is what I need to do...find it within myself...and then move forward into my life and whatever relationship I decide to pursue....

I am 36, and have not the strngth required anymore to see Dewt through walking and talking his talk...I have watched his attempts and closed my eyes in pain...knowing him to be floundering, and hoping and praying ...but I could not help him..he needed to see where and what his decisions would bring him and then deal with his consequences...I feel like I have been, at times, raising an adolescent for many years....and I needed to invest in "tough love"...well...

this disaster is, on BOTH our parts, what we have reaped..I could and perhaps should have spoken more about my intent to come back here, watch him, see if the changes he purported to be making were truly something he was working on, but everytime I'd look, was when he coincidentally would "stumble"......I remember phone calls in which he promised that he would become the man I needed him to be, that he was learning responsibility, he was making the changes, doing the work...then bam...his rollercoaster (that most BS's ride)would kick in, he was left in limbo, succumbed to it, and then there is a girlfriend, then bam....sleepovers with the girlfriend, with our children present, then bam...

I have no more faith..

I now believe that all these "stumble" were his own exit moves....

the final stumble, if you will notice, being the ONE he KNEW would kill all love units for him within me...he knew this, and I believe wants us both out of the cycle of pain and doom...

I can no longer be a party to these patterns and these behaviours...loving him is not enough...he does need more than I can offer him...

he really does care about his family...he and I just made very poor choices, reacted to the pain and despair instead of working harder to fix anything....

I have hurt him more than anyone ever has...and in a way he NEVER would have bet on...we all know the pain infidelity brings, and the insecurities, the questions, the rage, the loss.......

he never thought I would ever inflict something like this ....

It should never have happened...it is against all moral and ethical codes in my personal belief system...

6 years ago he warned me..even after I had decided to stay and try to recover our marriage...he told me point blank to not expect the same gift frokm him...that if I were ever to cheat, he would be gone...

that was very telling...

so was his claim that there would be another woman in his bed in a matter of days if we ever seperated...

then I am left to think about if this is the character and fibre of the person I want to be spending time (a lifetime) with...

so, I shouldn't leave him, we should work and save our marriage...but if the tables were turned (and now 6 yrs later they are)...I should not expect the same in return from him...and indeed, 6 yrs later, and he did indeed leave....

I still maintain that Dewt does not love me..he will argue this with his dying breath, but....he has taken a teenage relationship we had 20 years ago, blown it out of proportion, and has placed me in a position of being his ideal female...

people who love each other don't do this to each other...not repeatedly...

he cheated when we were teens, he cheated on almost every girlfriend he had, he cheated on me, and he has to learn how to remove himself from that pattern before he can even approach a healthy relationship again.....that is why I believe mary, the ex, and the stranger from the internet happened...his insecurities get the better of him and he caves in to these needs...

it has been enough of a pattern in his life and others I have chosen to date, that I think it may be part of the reason for my lack of libido...what the hell is the point of intimacy, when it is constantly being cheapened??

sex is sacred to me...he knows my viewpoint...at this point, I really don't care if I am ever intimate physically again...there are other means and other forms of it for me to search out...sex is ruined....its cheap, dirty and just unattractive to me now...look at what it gets us...look what happens if you are a slave to it....

tangeant: did your W ever recover her sexual health?...

I need therapy to deal with all this, I know...and as soon as it is financially do-able i will pursue it with a vengence

moving far away from the ex is not possible...we tried that, and it made things worse...he has created a situation where no contact is not possible..he and she share a child...a son and access to him are at stake....

as they always have been, and as such, they have and still do take precedence over almost all else...I cannot begin to number the times she has said jump....and we ask how high...

I'm done....this is no longer an issue..as a roomate, not a spouse, she is not my problem...I no longer have to bite my tongue, or eschew viewpoints I dont really believe in (so's not to upset her)...I have regained an important part of my sanity, knowing I can respond to anything regarding her and her influence in our lives with : "it is no longer my business, and quite frankly my dear, I no longer give a damn"..

I do not need to be super-peacekeeper, no more mediator hat to wear, no more humouring her....no more shutting up....no more death threats...schemes...

the air is clearer up here, and finally, after 9 years, K, I feel at least in that one area, I CAN FINALLY BREATHE...

I feel as if 800 pounds of stress is gone...


thank you for your continued faith, for your words and for your prayers...they are much appreciated....especially in light of the fact that we BOTH should have known better....


more to come, must pay attention to kidlets now...

Dylan