Hey, where are the experts when you need them? Mortarman had a battle plan, where is he? Also looking for help from Pep, Melody, Ark, JL, WAT and others.

Joe C

I wonder if WSand OM will ever spend enough time together to actually see the truth about each other. The facts don't point to them being compatible. Still, she thinks OM is Mr. right for her. MAN THIS HURTS!


Joe,
I know how you feel Joe! In my case OM and my W had a go at it during our separation and it FAILED and now she's trying to revisit the whole thing, keep him as a friend. IT'S INSANITY I TELL YAH! He's not MR. RIGHT! She will realize that I just hope for her sake she comes to her senses before you run out of GAS! I think eventually in most cases the WW does snap out of it, the problem is we get fed up and throw in the towel.
Hang in there Joe, you're not alone!!


Thos

FM: I understand your frustration at your WW pursuing the OM. Mine did the same thing, at times. He would go dark for months, tell her he needed his space and never really treated her well in general. He was obviously having other A’s all the while he was with my W. Yet nothing kept her away. She always ran back when he got bored and wiggled his little finger at her.
He claimed to his own wife she pursued him relentlessly until he just gave in out of exhaustion. Not likely – he’s a first string player. Current W is the product of an A on his first W, even.

Have you talked to your W’s OM? I did to mine and he was pretty adamant it was all my wife’s fault and he was glad to be out of it.
Once confronted, he turned tail and ran. Perhaps yours will also.

THOS,
That's exactly what happened!! I confronted him on the phone and he was SHOCKED! He thought my W and I were still separated!! From everything I can gather he ENDED their FRIENDSHIP! My W is still pursuing a friendship with him and also going thru depression from WITHDRAWAL. It's very hard to watch your wife detoxing over another guy.
Talk about a EGO-BUSTER!!



As to your children, my son went through similar agony. He is still very mad at his mother and keeps asking if she is going to leave again.
One afternoon when I picked him up from school he said, “dad, I figured out what mom did.
We studied the Ten Commandments today (Catholic School) and mom committed adultery and
did the opposite of covet thy neighbor’s wife.

I really worry this may skew his outlook on women for the rest of his life. He is in his own IC now because of all this. IC is working up to a confrontation between the two of them so DS can feel like he has some control over his life.
As an aside, IC had DS confront me with his anger too. Interesting – he was most angry that I did not stand up to WW more. He thought I was acting like a wimp and it made him mad.


THOS,
I am concerned about my SONS mental well-being as well. He keeps telling me
"I can't stop thinking about MOM"
He knows Richard used to be mommys boyfriend, if he ever finds out what going on he will be HIGHLY HURT! He understands what WIFE means! He told me just yesterday, DAD YOU CANNOT REPLACE MOM OKAY! I'm like where did that come from? HE"S ONLY 6, if he finds out MOM is trying to replace DAD he's going to be CRUSHED!
My D knows everything!! My D is in counseling and her counselor called me and told me my D is going thru a mild-depression over her mother leaving the home.I couldnt hide it from her! I had to talk to her about it because I didn't want to blame me for her mother not being here! She's very disappointed in her mother right now and she told me last night
"Dad if you want to move on it's OKAY, I know you're hurting. There's just so much you can take!"

I told her I will hang in there for her mother as long as I can, and then a little LONGER, because I love her mother and her mother loves me. OF COURSE my D at 13 doesnt understand how her Mom could love her Dad and still be chasing her ex-boyfriend! I worry about the mental well-being of both my kids, but DUMPING their mother is NOT the right thing to do. The right thing to do is to hang in there as long as I can and try to REPAIR this M.

Thanks for helping me see I'm not the only person going thru this crap. Maybe my son will need counseling as well!'


GC

Oh believer, I hope the comment I made about there being lots of women his age didn't inspire him that way. It was meant to be a comfort, but perhaps I should be more careful with my fragile brothers.

HEY GC,
No G it's not your fault partner! If Phantam lost it and went out there and did something he'll regret it wasn't from anything YOU said, that motive had to be festering in him for QUITE SOMETIME. We all think about it, but to go thru with it? I dont think he's going to do that right now, he seemed too broke up to add more broken pieces to his life right now. AT LEAST I HOPE NOT!....How's the cooking and housework going GC?


Painter

I feel cheated! And for what? She didn’t even enjoy her A! If I was gonna cheat on her I would at least make sure I had a helluva party doing it!

I’m not going anywhere though. I’ll take care of her and raise another child. Just need to vent alittle.

AAARRRRRGG!!!

Painter,
You're a STRONG GUY! Hats off to you for being a TROOPER! All I can say is hang in there, your doing the ADMIRABLE thing and your the type of guy that SAVES familys. When the smoke CLEARS your W is going to LOVE you more INTENSELY than most MEN ever experience in their LIVES. You're da MAN!


RWUK
Now she says it doesn't matter if I sleep Upstairs or not. Of course,I want to feel she WANTS me in the same bed with her


RWUK,
Who says BALD guys are sex-magnets. Make little moves each night. Try to SEDUCE your wife. SMALL THINGS leading to bigger things yah know. I know its difficult. REJECTION from your W really hits yah like a SLEDGEHAMMER, but if the MOOD is right I think she will CAVE and few nights of CAVING you'll be back in there on a regular basis. REMEMBER SF is way more emotional for women. If you get lucky do all the After Play things they like, but don't bring up your R or her passed A...

RWUK if you don't go downtime my brother, its time to start! If you don't give foot rubs it's time to start! If I were you I'd buy some books and start reading on some ways to seduce her and try something every chance I had. She will cave eventually.. No LB's and No Complaints when she doesn't respond initialy.
Good Luck RWUK...!


Believer

Hey, where are the experts when you need them? Mortarman had a battle plan, where is he?
Also looking for help from Pep, Melody, Ark, JL, WAT and others.

Exactly, we definetly could use the benefit of their GREAT MINDS and EXPERIENCE,
Thanks again Believer for getting the ball rolling!

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey, where are the experts when you need them? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure don't consider myself an expert, but wanted to pass on some thoughts for RW...

My W and I had a similar situation when we were just starting to rebuild our M... I wasn't worried that my W was chatting with other guys, but it did bother me that we never went to bed together at the same time...

My W would usually be on the computer surfing E-Bay after we'd put our girls in bed. I'd hang out with her and we'd talk... I usually had to be at work fairly early so I'd tell her that I was ready to go to bed and my W would tell me to go ahead, that she'd be there "in a minute"...

Being a typical guy, I thought that she understood what I ment... (Guy thoughts: I'm ready for bed... let's work on our SF! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...(Wife's thoughts: Oh no, not again!, or I'll bet that he just wants SF... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

She would usually end up coming to bed several hours after I'd already drifted off to sleep.

I mentioned this to our MC and he suggested that I draw her a nice, warm, bubble bath, and "pamper" her a bit with NO expectation of SF... I tried it, and it WORKED!!! (Trust me on this one, if you find something that your W enjoys and then do it for her with no expectation of SF.... the SF WILL take care of itself... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> )

Give it a try and see if you can get your W to leave the computer for a nice, warm bubble bath... find something that she enjoys to replace her time on the computer, something that you two can do together...

If she still insists on staying up after you go to bed, ask her if she'd mind you staying up with her... the point being to try and spend as much time as possible together, whether it's on the computer together, or doing something a little more romantic...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Rebuilding in Faith 90 ]</small>

"REMEMBER SF is way more
emotional for women. If you get lucky do all the After Play things they like"

Family matters - Yeah, you got it. I spewed my coke all over the monitor when I read this line! You are tooooooo much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Hey, where are the experts when you need them? Mortarman had a battle plan, where is he? Also looking for help from Pep, Melody, Ark, JL, WAT and others. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am waiting until I can think of something useful.

Right now, I am wondering what the hell is wrong with these men's wives!

And until I can get my mind around THAT issue, I cannot be very useful.

In most cases of female adultery ... I think the real expert is more likely one of the Harleys.

Sometimes I sense other issues within the marriage... like substance abuse or some psych undertow having influence over the WW ... and then I am not so sure there is much the "loyal husband" can do.

Honestly, I do not see myself as an MB expert.

My experience was that Mr. Pep came running back to me once he knew I was "done" with his crap. He was singing a new tune very fast. Attracting him toward me was the easy part. My deciding to stay with HIM once he returned was the difficult part.

Men, how can I be useful to you?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> "REMEMBER SF is way more
emotional for women. If you get lucky do all the After Play things they like"

Family matters - Yeah, you got it. I spewed my coke all over the monitor when I read this line! You are tooooooo much. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Believer, if I could only take my own advice, GEEZ at least I know what I did wrong, I think I'll get another chance to correct it.

YEAH, RWUK is halfway home...her not being a zipcode away really helps! its hard to give your W a backrub or build up deposits when she away. I thought I should post some responsed to my brothers here. I rant alot so its the least I could do.
HANG IN THERE MEN, IT AINT OVER TILL IT's OVER!

RIF - Thanks for posting. And thanks for being in Afganistan. Please know that we Americans appreciate your efforts.

Pep - Yes you ARE the expert. All of your advice is always right on the money. I'm trying to help these men recover their marriages, and still hold on to their self-esteem. Tricky.

FamilyMan - Hang in there. Help is on the way!

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

Believer...I have been reading your posts here and there on the MB for several months and I just wanted to tell you that I think you are such a kind-hearted lady!

You have compassion and understanding for everyone...whether they are the spouse that was cheated on or the spouse that was unfaithful.

You are quite a lady and I see a genuine forgiving spirit and kind-heartedness inside you; it's evidence shows through what you write.

I hope, someday, your H sees what a FOOL he was to stray from you and your marriage.

Sincerely, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessedtime - Thanks. Got any good advice for these men?

Well, probably my only advice is these wives are taking their husbands for granted and think these GOOD LOYAL GUYS, WILL ALWAYS BE THERE.

HUSBANDS, was it like a wake-up call for you when you found out your wife was having an affair?

Was it then that you realized how important she was to you and you wanted to do all you could to keep her?

I am asking you this because it wasn't until I found out my H was 'in love' with another lady, that I realized how IMPORTANT he was to me...

Sex became a number one happening and it started happening OFTEN and became an exciting passionate lovemaking between us; instead of a ho hum once in awhile...I became a lover, like a WW.lol

So, I guess, for you guys, if your wife just could feel a little FEAR that she might lose you and your love, it MIGHT be a wake-up call for her.

But I don't know, she has to get over these new and exciting sexual romantic feelings she is having for the OM...and it is a powerful thing.
She probably is feeling like a teenager in love right now!

Hang in there friends...Time truly will help, REALLY, I promise.
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So in short, fellows, what I want to say is become a lover to your wife...PRETEND like you are having an affair with HER...what would you do?

OM makes your wife feel her body is beautiful and they want to touch it everywhere and do all kinds of things to it with their fingers, tongues and mouths.

You can do that to!...How long has it been since you asked to LOOK at her private area and then licked and loved on it...Be a lover! Make her feel special and loved.

GIVE HER PASSIONATE KISSES>>>>SHE IS GETTING A LOT OF THEM FROM THE OM>>>>BE A GOOD KISSER, make your lips soft by using the inside of your lips when you kiss...PRACTICE ON YOUR HAND.

Have car sex...Afterall, that is where most affairees have sex!

And Husbands, yet at the same time...try not to let her take you so for granted that you will always be there...maybe that is where time limits come to play...don't let her walk all over you because you are Mr. Nice Guy. Don't be a [censored]! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

These are just my opinions.
Love, Julie

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

believer, another thankyou for starting this thred.
i've been reading this thred and getting a big boost from it.
i'm truly glad that some of us men do sound like women. that way of thinking just seems right,and i gess that it is more of an everyone thing.

the ww mind still baffles me. mine was cheated on by her first h so i know she knows how it feels,go figure!

but thanks for starting this thred!

Blessed time

When I first found the E-mails and then had her followed I was rather ambivalent about the marriage. We were not in a real "good" place in our marriage and I was in shock and really didn't know what I wanted. I made a conscious decision to stay and work on the marriage. We started to go to an MC and I started reading some relationship books. I realized how we had let things slip.

It wasn't until I found out that my WW spent a night in a hotel with OM 2 days after having Christmas together that I thought the marriage was over. Figured there was no way to recover from that. Felt that way for at least 5 min. Oh yeah, he's married too.

Then I realized how entwined our lives really are. That I still loved my wife and was horrified at the thought of breaking a family. I offered to change careers, myself where we live; anything. WW used my 5 min as the time to say, "It's over!" and she has never looked back. Owns her own house now and is slowly attempting to legitimize the relationship to others. Plan B seems to suit her just fine. She's generally playing by the rules I asked her to.

Pep, no substance abuse issues, but an overwhelming need for social contact on WW's part. I'm talking one month long distance bill for 800 min. once. She surrounds herself with a huge number of friends, always. Cannot be alone. Mix that with a father that left her mom and her for another woman, shift work for both of us, etc. etc. We fit the profile for an A to a T if you read Shirley Glass.

Pep:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Men, how can I be useful to you?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If WW returns, I'll get her to post. You give her the same advice you gave Jfaye in her thread!!

Believer, you are unbelievable! Love your long flowing grey locks, just like my wife’s hair (my wife doesn’t have bangs).

This is a great thread. Even though it has been many years since my travails with my XWW, I still try to figure out WHY?

I don’t have much advice to give out. JL, WAT, StarFish, and FWWs might be able to help you better in that regard. What I can help with is in recounting personal observations and experiences.

Like some, I had to choose if I wanted to take back wife pregnant with OM baby. I did because we already had two of our own, and I didn’t want to lose them, nor have anyone else in their lives as dad in any way.

However, I had to but up with a lot from her for the last 15 years of our marriage. In the end when she decided to leave us “to find herself,” even though I knew it was the best thing, I was a basket case for at least six months. Four years after our divorce, when I was dating my present wife, she wanted to return to the fold. Since I knew she was between boyfriends, she just wanted a free meal ticket. I told her no.

Well, living well is the best revenge. I’ve been happily married for almost 19 years to a wonderful woman. My XWW has been through four or five marriages and God knows how many affairs. She still tries to break up my marriage whenever she can.

A lot more happened during my first marriage, but that is the part that pertains to this thread. If any of you want any input, I’ll be glad to help.

Ronald.

PS: I am the SE type also. XWW never had a chance to sow her wild oats when young. When she wanted to come back, she said she realized that in the long run, she wanted the “white picket fence.” By that time, I hurt too much from her 15 years of her fun and games and I did not want to be hurt again.

Binder...there is a saying that: "You can extend the hand of friendship but you can't make the other person grasp it."

Perhaps there has to come a time when you just somehow can truly let her go...Do you really want to be with someone that doesn't want to be home with you and the kids?

Tell me truthfully...is it that you love her so much, or is it that your pride of losing her to another man HURTS SO MUCH???
Pride had a lot to do with it for me and my feelings! I didn't like being jilted!

Life is too short to hang all of our love on ONE PERSON...I don't know if you should give up on getting back together...none of us know that answer but often after divorce a man or woman meet someone else and spend the rest of their lives in contented happiness.

I and my husband stayed married and life is good.
My sister got divorced and has been happily married for 15 years....

Who knows the answer to what you should do?
You come the closest to knowing than anybody.
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
RAG...sounds like you have found contentment in your life for the past many years...that is good!

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Oh yes, I'm now in Jefferson City, MO; however, I'm really from the NYC area, and until five years ago, lived in Southern California for 24 years.

Oh, go ahead and throw reality in my face. That's playing dirty.

Pride....hmmmmmm. Pretty much went out the window after D-day. Grovelled, begged, made a photo album with pictures of us together during happy times; gave it to her while Unchained Melody played on the stereo. Pride's gone.

There's a thousand reasons for wanting to stay together, love is but one. I will see this to its bitter end and am fully prepared to go this alone. I'm far stronger now. Until then I will keep the door open.

If we divorce, this plan B will go on in perpetuity. I don't know if I will remarry. Already tried marriage, apparently I’m not too good at it. I will not swear off women though, I like women. They're sooooooooo soft and smooth.

Hi BT,

You asked..."these wives are taking their husbands for granted and think these GOOD LOYAL GUYS, WILL ALWAYS BE THERE" - in my situation, after 32 years of marriage she did take me for granted. It was only after heeding someone's advise here (at MB), that I began doing for me! Make no mistake, my heart still ached for my W, but I was physically feeling right (exercise'll do that to you), and I was looking at life differently (available, "buffed" out male thing, an exciting (and scary) new paradigm). I'm sure exposure of the A helped, but I became a more attractive "alternative" than I had been months earlier. Don't get me wrong though, when push came to shove and OM indicated that he only wanted s%x (and NOT necessarily another marriage), I got a real opportunity to show some love and support...love and support is VERY necessary when the bubble bursts!

"Sex became a number one happening" - took some time, but I find intimacy is great for binding wounds. I know from participation in previous posts, that some (perhaps many of both sexes) have difficulty with intimacy following an affair. While these feelings are both valid and understandable, failure to overcome CAN present a major obstacle to both parties "reconnecting." Yea, there's still some "flinching" at times, but they're internalized. W sometimes wonders how this is possible (she expressed concern/reservation re. this early on), but a simple BECAUSE I LOVE YOU, goes along way.

"if your wife just could feel a little FEAR that she might lose you and your love, it MIGHT be a wake-up call for her" - ah, the duplicity! Still makes me shake my head when I think about it. In A's, what's good for the goose, ain't necessarily good for the gander...quite a double standard! Just another one of those things that I JUST DON'T GET...

"She probably is feeling like a teenager in love right now" - don't know about the teenager analogy, but they sure do act stupid (and say the most hurtful things). The "fog" is unbelieveable! I refer to the phenomenon as "suspension of reality"!

I will say one thing, this whole process has had more ups/downs/twists than the old "E" ticket rides at Disney!

Excuse me Sir, I'd like a refund. I've changed my mind...

Binder, Ron...the rest of you good guys...when us ladies read what you write, we just cannot understand how your wife could be unfaithful...yet we also are learning that when that 'smitten with someone else' bug bites, it doesn't seem to matter how WONDERFUL the spouse is!

Most of us BW are wonderful loving women with nice bods...lol...So why did our H's want to be with someone else...WHO KNOWS?

To experience something different? To be made to feel special by someone else other than their mates? To feel young again...Beats me!

I don't even think they could give a reason...I guess they would say...Just because I wanted to do something for ME! (That entirely selfish nature part of them!)

And I truly believe that they believed that if we didn't know, we wouldn't be hurt... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Had a little R talk with WW. Some went OK. But not the end, Had to walk away before LBing, and DJ's started on my part.

Talked some about the DV. Don't even know how to go about describing this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WW told me she spent 13 years at home nurturing and caring for our children while I went out and provided. (sometimes working three jobs)

We were talking settlement issues, mostly she was. She wanted to know why I thought I should get the house. I told her. We bought the house a few months after we married. I provided the entire down payment. More than $10,000. When we married she literally came with only the clothes on her back. She was driving my second car because she didn't have one. I'm not upset with this mind you, I was in love and planned on spending the rest of my life with her. Of course that has changed now.

She tells me that none of that matters and a judge won't care, and she doesn't care. I informed her that I do care. Though not necessarily about the money.

She tells me that she stayed at home with the kids and that it should stay the way "she is accustomed too". I told her that didn't seem fair, that she keeps her lifestyle while I pay for it. She claims that is the way it was and it shouldn't change. Somehow this makes sense to her.

Am I loosing my cookies here?

I told her I'm just supposed to work? And she says, yes that is the way it was.

I'm a little at a loss, am I supposed to keep her in the lifestyle she was accustomed to, while my own lifestyle becomes one of a servant/slave with nothing in my life to which I've become accustomed? She says that is Florida Law, that is the way it is supposed to be.

She is the one who is having the affair, and choosing to tear apart our family. I will always make sure the kids are taken care of, that is always what I did. I don't understand why I have an obligation to support her affair financially when I get no benefits of a homemaker.

I know I didn't do justice to our conversation. It was just so strange listening to these words come out of my formally loving Wifes lips.

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>