</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FamilyMatters:

But I need to have a talk with this young guy though....one last time...after my W writes this letter he'd better stop contacting and I mean it.. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHH</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As much as you would like FM, don't visualize this OM as the wall!!!!!!! You are so eloquent with your words you dont need anything but your words. (As much as you would like to visualize him as the wall from the other day!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Sounds like this could be good news. Or just another turn on the wheel in one of those bumper cars in Coney Island--not sure which way its gonna go. Nevertheless, it still *could be* very good--not something you have been able to say in a while!

Anyhoo, enjoy your daughters birthday!

Only the best, FM!

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

FM - believer is on the right track. You need to get her on ADs and have her dump the sedatives. What kind of doctor gives her sedatives and doesn't suggest ADs?

In my own drama - the car that might have been OM went by my house for the second time at 1:00 A.M. I don't know what's going on, but something the car did made me think it was probably OM. The only thing I can't figure out is why.

Am I paranoid ENOUGH?

GC

graycloud -

Gosh I wonder why he would be driving by? Hope he is not looking for you. Did this start after you and his wife went to the fair?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
the car that might have been OM went by my house for the second time at 1:00 A.M. ...the car did made me think it was probably OM. The only thing I can't figure out is why.

Am I paranoid ENOUGH?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THAT is exactly why I struggle with wanting to meet our OM. I have no idea what he looks like. I do know his car but...

He'd be a fool to come around. I think he knows I enjoy shooting sports (ol' Paint is armed and dangerous) but he hasn't been using his brain through most of this summer.

I'd rather be prepaired than paranoid!

Painter - Stay away from OM. Loyal husbands and OM don't mix well. You might think you would be calm, but emotions go wild. You don't want to end up in jail.

I know... I realize I don't need to talk to him. That would at least be pointless and at worst, fatal.

The last time I drove by his house, I could feel the anger rush, so I didn't stop, just kept driving. I just need to see him at work or getting into his truck. I need a face to recognise so if he ever comes sneaking around I have some kind of upper hand.

Painter - We had lots of guns. I put them in the care of a neighbor who is a cop. I am a very peaceful person, but I did not want to take a chance. OW lived down the street and used to drive by and honk. Too tempting.

That would give new meaning to "drive by shooting" now wouldn't it!

Painter -

HaHa! That sure would. But of course OW has a husband and daughter that love her dearly, so I took no chances.

How is everything going for you?

Looks like things might be coming together for FamilyMatters.

Graycloud is trying to figure out if he has to support his wife in her accustomed style if she leaves the marriage.

Juke is out looking for some of the 20,000 single women in his age group.

Binder is contemplating never getting married again.

So things are moving right along.

Hi Believer,

"Sounds like you and your wife are doing much better."...well we're talking and "relating", that's a start. Since, I've been down this "road" before, I'll not repeat the same mistakes again. By that I mean...the talking, relating, and healing are great; but what needs to be done this time is identify and address the cause(s) for these A's.

I'm afraid that 5 years ago this was not done (or not done thoroughly enough). It's my opinion that only dedicated, thorough counseling will serve this purpose. Amateur psycho-therapy won't cut it! If the past has taught me nothing elses, it has (at least) taught me that OK or GOOD is not good enough. We've treated the symptoms but never the cause(s).

Right now "trust" and "openness" are our biggest issues. Once these have been established/re-established, we'll be able to move forward with counseling without any reservations or hidden agendas from either party.

cwmac asked "I have this theory that most BHs are the "Steady Eddie" types... - hmmm, steady as in predictable (and possibly no longer exciting), YES and therin (I believe) lies some of the problem. It seems to me (based on comments from WS's here) that the "newness"/thrill/excitement of OP is a definite (and strong) attraction. To me, this indicates a certain amount of "staleness" in the M. In my case, after 32 years, that "staleness" was inevitable. In that amount of time, wives know more about us then anyone else on earth. Of course we're predictable...IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE! It seems to me that part of affair proofing a marriage is avoiding the "staleness". To use a sports analogy here...if all a batter (spouse, wayward or otherwise) ever sees is a curve ball, guess what, that's what they expect. Time to work on a slider, a change-up, definitely a fast ball. An effective "pitcher" has to have some measure of (positive) unpredictability.

"Grounded, not the stuff of fantasies"...why not! We were when our spouses married us. DON'T fall into this trap. Who better to full our partner's fantasies than us...

todd1967 - "I struggle with the issue of justice." - "letting it go" is easy once love is restored. As much as the infidelity may p&*s us off, there's not a damn thing we (or WS) can do to change what's happened. Make the choice to move on AND THEN DO IT! As far as the "issue of justice"...fugetaboutit, THERE AIN'T NONE! Nobody said life was fair (and if they did...THEY LIED!). As far as "core belief" - they are what make you you. IF your "core beliefs" are sound (and valid) DO NOT COMPROMISE THEM. to thine own self be true...

furnitureman - "Am I the only BH whose W has had multiple A's? - NO! My Saga Now that makes four of us by my count.

hopefulinnc - "Do women value a man that goes to work every day, brings home a paycheck, provides a stable environment and father the children?" - speaking strictly from MY perspective, "value" yes. In our case, perhaps a better question might have been...did our W's respect such a man. Obviously not, or we wouldn't be here! Our question (to ourselves) should be...why. Personally, I'm leaning toward the "steady Eddie"/"staleness" area. BUT, there are a myriad of other "qualities" that go into the making of a desireable spouse. IF Dr. H's financial & domestic support ENs are not in our W's "top 5", or we're seriously deficient in any of her "top 5" ENs, then you and I missed the mark and need to work on filling our spouse's important ENs.

graycloud - "I'm a terrible time manager. Any tips for overcoming this awful handicap?" - I've found a small notebook carried in my lab coat helps. As thoughts, ideas, and "things to do" come to mind, I jot them down. I find it MUCH easier to read through this later than to try to remember everything that's run through my head during the day. Having a list of "to do's" makes it much easier to check off items once they're addressed, and gives me a feeling of accomplishment when I can see progress being made. The feeling of accomplishment is probably an over-reaction to the (sometimes) lack of accomplishment at getting through this mess (the A). Baby steps are very hard to track and set backs always seem to take the lime light. My "to do" list helps track some accomplishments and my journal (suggestion - keep a daily journal. All good explorers kept a journal of their travels), helps track the progress of the "slower" events in my life.

believer -"Women don't like weak men" - GUYS...BELIEVE THIS!!! This is one serious piece of insight you've just been given.

Ron -

Wow, you've got a lot of good points. I know my main problem was being the faithful, dependable wife. I made WH's lunches for work, cooked dinner for everyone, did the housework, took care of the teens. I was boring, boring, boring.

I have changed now, and have a nice life WITHOUT WH.

Painter,

Guess I'm going to go against the crowd on this one.

I look at what you've written as 2 separate issues.

One: What YOU need

Two: what will it accomplish.

I agree with most that confronting him will NOT accomplish anything concrete.

On the other hand (we are all different) and apparently you have a NEED to do this.
In that regard it may do you some good to talk (yea..yell) at this man ... one time only.

Right now, your progress is being blocked by this.

Hopefully, after this ONE time you will see for yourself that it doesn't do any good. (Except to make you feel better at the moment).
Unfortunately, Nothing (NOTHING!) he says will make you feel better.
And nothing you say will be "enough" for you.

However once done, you then won't be "obsessing" about doing it anymore and can let that thought go (because you will have been there and done that).

But YOU need to come to this conclusion for yourself.
Us telling you it doesn't matter, will not make the thoughts go away for you.

IN addition, Just putting a face to a name can make all the difference in your outlook.
He then begins to STOP having so much power and influence in your life.
(Call it demystifying the "boogie man").

Truly, many of the physical questions you have in your head will be answered as well.
(You know a picture is worth a 1000 words).

However, I do suggest you leave ANY & ALL weapons at home.
Also keep it strictly Verbal .....(don't get physical.....jail is not worth it).
Make sure to have "whatever" it is you want to say ready the first time, cause if you continue to go back....you run the risk of harassment charges. YOU only get one free shot a this.
OH yea, NO ALCOHOL either. No liquid courage (too much can go wrong).

To tell you the truth I did talk/yell at my W's OM one time (although on the phone).
It did feel good to tell this little creep exactly what was on my mind.

It just seems to me that this is eating you up and your only going to continue to "obsess" over it. So although I highly doubt it will get you the satisfaction you are looking for by confronting him .......do it ........" IF " it will bring you some peace and let you begin to Focus on the challenges that actually matter.

Your now stuck on a more trivial matter (although granted, it sure doesn't seem that way to you right now).
If it helps you to know his face or even tell him off.......then do it and lets more on to more important stuff.

Do it, get it over with, then use that same energy you've had about this matter on issues that can have a true positive effect on your situation.

Indeed, just because it doesn't make you any less angry or even less frustrated....doesn't mean it's pointless.
Peace of mind counts for something in my book.

Of course that's IMO.
later

The first appearance of what might have been OM's car was yesterday, the same day OMW saw the sparrow driving in my neighborhood.

So it was all kind of simultaneous with our going to the fair. I think we won't hang around together for a while. No need to complicate things. It would be great in a way if somebody saw us together and OM was jealous. I'm not afraid of him. He's a spineless, confused little boy. A complete coward.

It's so juvenile - driving by people's houses to see if they're home or who they're hanging around with. I won't let myself get sucked into their teenage drama.

Believer, I would rewrite the one-sentence synopsis as: Graycloud is trying to get a life, waiting for the sparrow to gather the courage make contact, and waiting for it all to play out.

I'm also officially retaining my attorney tomorrow.

GC

believer,

Things are ok here. robel didn't enter a fog so we have been working on our M like we should have been doing for the past 5 years. She doesn’t like my beer drinking, I wish she’d act more sexy. They really are petty things, but, as I’ve found, they can add up and have severe consequences! The past month we’ve spent lots of alone time just talking and promising to change this or that. I think just the quality time spent makes the petty things fade. There’s been no fighting or LBs, we really have been closer than we have for a long time.

I took her on a date last weekend. Dropped the boys off at her moms, went for a walk on the greenbelt by the river, skipped rocks, people watched. I couldn’t remember the last time I found decent beef ribs, so we tried a restaurant near the movie theater. (Awesome ribs! I was stuffed) and then watched I Robot. Good movie. We got home and settled the boys in bed and sat on the couch for a while, she looked up at me with sleepy eyes and told me it had been the best day ever and I had become her ideal man. I reminded her that I was always right here. She looked sad and apologized again for screwing up so bad.

She is still PG and getting nauseous in the evenings. This can make things hard on me. I have to pick up the slack and don’t get all the attention I want from her. That’s when I dwell on things like she’s carrying OMs child ,and how could she have strayed that far. How stupid is that!? Hurting me and the boys, the possibility of getting caught and humiliated, danger of STDs. Not to mention that she had a man right here the whole time! I can’t imagine actually following through with a PA.

I have the number of a MC but we’re a little strapped for cash and neither of us really want to involve a third party in our talks. Maybe later…..

Thx for the thread.

It was a woman with an "O" handle I think - maybe Orchid or Octobergirl - who recently posted a generic letter for the OM (or it may have been an old thread bumped up). I'd like to see it. Does anybody remember the thread?

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Just putting a face to a name can make all the difference in your outlook.
He then begins to STOP having so much power and influence in your life.
(Call it demystifying the "boogie man").

Truly, many of the physical questions you have in your head will be answered as well.
(You know a picture is worth a 1000 words).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES thats it! That is what I'm after! I can't seem to make that clear to others. I really don't even want to tell the creep off. Just demystify!

And right on the other points. One failed attempt to confront OM I had a witness to stand back and not let things get ugly and he was smart enough to disarm me. (kinda makes me feel naked)

This is obviously going to happen in God's time, not mine.

Thx for the words TR!

Yeh GC I saw that one....

Hmm...

Gosh I looked for it, but couldn't find it. You might try posting to Orchid.

Painter - Your wife should not be sick too much longer. They say that ginger can take the nausea away. Have her check with her doc.

Graycloud - Just don't let this guy surprise you. We had one lady here who informed her WH's OW's husband. The OW got furious and followed her to K-Mart and attacked her with a pool stick. She was just getting out of her car, and OW beat her up. She ended up with a broken jaw, missing teeth, and had to have facial surgery.

So be vigilant.

Both WW and OM have known for some time that OMW and I are in touch. They probably don't know we're friends, but they've known for almost two months that we talk. I could care less. I have nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. If OM messes with me (and I wish he would), it'll be like the mob boss in Raging Bull said:

"He ain't pretty no more."

I have to resist the temptation to bait him more than I have to watch out for him. I've grown eyes in the back of my head.

GC

believer,

My wife (and her sister) don't make very pretty pregnant women. They both stay sick the whole 9 mos. We've been through every home remedy you can imagine! The best comes from 1/2 tab of Unisom and a B6 once in the evening.