Painter - That is too bad. Well, you will get through this too.

Ron 53,
I preface this with the statement that I'm not attacking you for your comments. Really more of a sarcastic vent.

You responded to my question with...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> steady as in predictable (and possibly no longer exciting), YES and therin (I believe) lies some of the problem. It seems to me (based on comments from WS's here) that the "newness"/thrill/excitement of OP is a definite (and strong) attraction. To me, this indicates a certain amount of "staleness" in the M. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I was thinking more along the lines of hard working, loyal, good father etc. Predictable? Who was more predictable me or her?

Actually my theory is that WW and WH have two different underlying views/rationales for infidelity. WHs still believe that it's ok to go have sex with someone else when things get "predictable" at home wheras WWs lean on the emotional element.

Most women still believe in fairy tales, not the Grimm type but the sacriny sweet Disney type. They believe Prince Charming is out there. They marry us, the BHs. At the time, they believe that we are Prince Charming.

Life goes on until one day they wake up and believe that they made a horrible, terrible mistake. They didn't marry Prince Charming. They believe that in reality they've married a man who has been turned into a Beast by a wicked spell.

Along comes their knight in shining armor, the OM. He flirts. He tells them they are fabulous(not that hubby didn't do this, but it's so new and refreshing hearing from a stranger). He tells them whatever their naive brains want to hear. "This is the real Prince Charming, they say. He is my soul mate. The one I've been waiting for." Their husbands are just the one who kept them company while they waited for the real Prince to arrive. "I never really loved him", she says.

It's this underlying female fantasy that makes it so easy for a wife to cheat.

In my fable, Prince Charming realized that he really was married to the true Princess after all. He realized after it was too late that my wife was just a dalliance that all princes are entitled to. Isn't this their birthright when things get boring at their castle?

The sad thing is is that I remember going to a seminar with my wife (fiancee at the time) It was entitled "The Myth of Prince Charming." This lady gave numerous examples of how are society perpetuates this myth to the detriment of women's mental health and their marriages. Guess someone wasn't listening.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO BE! It seems to me that part of affair proofing a marriage is avoiding the "staleness". To use a sports analogy here...if all a batter (spouse, wayward or otherwise) ever sees is a curve ball, guess what, that's what they expect. Time to work on a slider, a change-up, definitely a fast ball. An effective "pitcher" has to have some measure of (positive) unpredictability.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's see I've always just been a fast ball thrower so maybe you're right. I should throw her a few curve balls and that way I can become unpredictable. I'll try that 180 degree stategy that I've heard so much about here at MB. I'll become my opposite. From loyal to disloyal, from safe to dangerous. From predictable to unpredictable. And most importantly from unselfish to selfish. You get the idea.

How about these scenarios? I could take next months house payment and divert it to something fun for me. No too unimaginative. hmmm. ok. I'll take all of the money that I've saved and transfer it to a Swiss bank account. I'll then go live in an exotic far off land. Turn myself into a Prince.

THE END

PS And they lived happily therafter

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

HaHa. Every lady is looking for prince charming. And I think that when we have good husbands, and have been lucky, we always dream of someone better.

I have been through a lot of horrible relationships. So I know what is out there. But many of these women have been sheltered by their husbands and have no clue.

Hang in there guys.

Believer, I got me one of those romantics that doesn't know how good she has it. Rar!

She thinks OM is a great father. He's a Disneyland Dad! The sparrow thought I wouldn't be a good father because I'd be too selfish and caught up in my own life. Now OM spends his weekends doing role-playing games with his friends while his pregnant W is at home with his child.

I honestly don't think my WW is ever coming back. She's completely checked out. It all makes me want to just go to sleep for a year sometimes.

I found the letter Orchid wrote (I think) and betrayedinjersey reposted:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=030917#000000

GC

Hi everyone. Hope you all survived the weekend.

Graycloud - Thanks for finding that letter. I will keep it around until my WH drops by, then give it to him to read.

GC,
Did I read this correctly? OM is stalking you? What is this guy nuts or something? Okay I get it now he thinks your seeing his W, so he's worried, right? Let em worry and keep your eyes open, remember you don't know what his W tells him/if anything about your R w/ her. I bet, OM has always kept in the back of his head the option to go home and leave the Sparrow dangling in the wind. Hmmmm, he has no reason to circle your home unless he's concerned and why should he be concerned "He's SOOOOOOOOO In Love" right? Whatever! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JUKE,
Where are you?????????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Believer,
Things are finally seeming to come together (crosses fingers). My W is saying and doing all of the right things. She has commited to working on our M and ousting OM from her life and MINE! I am highly pissed about the Dr. prescribing her XANAX/ZANAX why would he give her a sedative? If there's one thing a depressed person doesn't need is a sleeping aid. I will be attending her next counseling session and we're going to address this issue with the good doctor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks for all the support things are beginning to look ....hey I'm going to start another thread about my own sitch...No need to threadjack.

Hang in there guys, I see sparks of hope where before there was nothing but darkness and life was giving me the middle finger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FamilyMatters - That sounds very promising. I'm so happy for you, now that things are looking up.

FM, I like what I hear. Back to recovery chores, over and over again. Good man.

I don't know if OM is stalking me, but there is circumstantial evidence. OMW has not told him how much we talk, but he may be suspicious anyway, because he knows we are in touch. In fact, when he made overtures to reconcile a few weeks ago, he had a condition - OMW could have no contact with me any longer. As if we're having the A!

This morning my lawyer told me sparrow hasn't filed, just served me. They're probably waiting it out, keeping it out of the court system for now and hoping that I'll lie down on my back and make it easy and cheap. No can do.

I'm going to continue being a lighthouse, but I'm not going to cooperate and make it easy out of some desperate need to be liked by my WW. No way, daddy-o.

GC

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: graycloud ]</small>

FM:

The OM in my FWW's life was very bold too. My FWW told the OM when our MC session was scheduled, so he drove into the parking lot to let her and I know that he was there at the same time we were there. He claims he had to do some work in the same building, but that was BS and I will never believe that. He was taunting me and he wanted my FWW to know that he loved her soo much! He did not want the MC to convince her to come back to me and the children.

Selfish Bast.rds!

It is amazing to what extent these WS's go to. Almost unbelievable. Suddenly they think that they have more right to your spouse than you do. Plus they want to keep their own spouse.

Hope everyone is doing okay. Thankfully, Juke is back - he was on vacation.

This particular OM was a lonely single man who wanted his very own lover. He had everything to gain and nothing to lose. I told my MC that he gets to carry his lack of morals and lack of integrity with him onto his next relationship. He was already divorced once but he told my FWW that it was because of his XW....RIGHT!

He was 18 yrs younger than my wife. I would say it was a romance made in Heaven, don't you agree?

FM: Good luck with your recent change of events. I found it to be a bit like a dog chasing a car. Once you get them, you don't know what to do with them...in their new state of being and condition. They are not the same before their Affair began. You used to view them as loving and loyal and dedicated to you and the family. Now.....they are like......I don't know, maybe a roommate. Maybe it will come back in time. I hope.

toosoon - Glad you are in recovery with your wife. These things are hard to go through, but sounds like you are doing okay.

I just wanted to comment on cwmacs' observation about women falling into the Disneyland fairytales trap.I was very aware of how detrimental this false image was to women at a rather early age.Part of that was my disillusionment of having a loving and caring father figure who loved his wife and creating a "perfect" world for their one and only child,so when that all went to he** it woke me up to the realities of life.

Since then,it has amazed me how society/media/entertainment has STILL encouraged this lie for ratings or for money or other self serving reasons.I've said before to some people here that we are made to feel as though if we aren't happy and excited 100% of the time then we are missing out and our answer is OUT THERE somewhere,not within.So if I am not thin enough by societies/celebrity standards,I can take pills or injections or get bowflex or have gastric bypass surgery,if my teeth aren't glaring white like in magazines,I need to rush out and get whitening tooth polish or spend 100's of dollars at the dentist to look my best,I can get botox injections for those pesky wrinkles,if I'm bored with my spouse I can have an affair or meet other's on yahoo,If I'm not driving a BMW then I am somehow not making enough money,if I am not wearing Victoria's Secret thongs to bed every night then I am boring and un sexy,YADA YADA YADA.

You now,the list goes on and frankly I am SO tired with all the trash thrown at me.So life gets a little predicatble when you spend years together,is that SO bad? Can't spouses talk about how to spice things up at HOME instead of going to get it elswhere? When did it become OK for all this ENTITLEMENT!??

I too think that my WH really felt entitled to go out and flirt with the homewrecker,encourage and feed the inappropriate "fiendship" and when they both persued each other to the point where they are at that proverbial line,my WH said,I deserve this.Things aren't the best at home with the wife so I want to have some fun and have these tingly feelings again.

Well,he got that but then he didn't bargain on all the rest.So what happens when HE spends years with the homewrecker,shall he start over again? Maybe it's every 5 years or 10 years for other's.Point is,the answer isn't out there with just another partner,after all,marriages born from adultery have an abysmal success rate.I mean HELLO? Do I have to be someone else entirely to keep my H from straying? Should I try ot emulate Heidi Klum or some other model? Do men have to pound walls and ride motorcycles to get attention? I just don't get it.

We are being taught to be what we are not.Yes it's about needs and meeting them but I worry about the other end of the spectrum and what's being told to people there as opposed to here.Here,there is a loving successful way to keep love alive in our marriages and our hearts,everywhere else it's go and have it all,you deserve it no matter what people you hurt,families you destroy,marriages you help end.

My fairytale,if it is that,is sharing my life with someone who is himself,honest and true to his family and loved ones,who doesn't have to try to be someone else to attract me and keep me.Staying in a loving relationship for a lifetime with a partner that is caring toward other's,keeps their dignity and integrity alive,makes choices that help others and are not self serving and is loyal to those he cares about especially his W,that has all the merits of a REAL Prince Charming.

All you faithful BH's here have that and more.Take a bow.

O

Octobergirl - I'm with you all the way. My WH and OW will never last. She is 17 years younger than he. Also she has cheated on her husband 3 times before.

But my WH is willing to give up everything we had together for her. This is a trainwreck waiting to happen.

I am so done with him. It makes me feel very glad to have him gone. Because of his choices, we will both lose. But I have no control over that. We will lose.

B,

You are an awesome lady.Your WH is going to be crying a river because when you are done,that is it.He is losing out bigtime for some little smarmy homewrecker.There's no comparison to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry for the sidestep there guys.

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Believer:

We are doing ok but it is going to take a long time to rebuild trust and feelings back again. I know things could be much worse such her leaving for the OM. She came close. She even put a deposit down on an apartment, but she stayed.

It has been a long and painful experience.

Hey Guys- Can't sleep very well and just saw this thread. Now I will finally check in as loyal husband.

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: juke1225 ]</small>

Is recovery supposed to be a roller coaster ride? If not, then we're not there yet.

Sunday we attended an annual picnic for DD(3)'s daycare. WW spent some time making deviled eggs, and was quite upset with DD(12) when she turned the pan sideways and they all dumped over. There were pony rides and lots of food.

At our last counseling I made a comparison to the amount of time I used to spend online to the amount of time WW now spends online. The counselor asked WW how much time a night WW spends online. Her response was 2 to 3 hours. The counselor pointed out spending that much time online, something was suffering, whether it is her sleep or spending quality time with me.

Since counseling I think there was only 1 night she didn't get online, and that's because she fell asleep on the couch. 2 other nights, we played a computer game together (that was a nice change). Last night, she didn't come to bed until 3 am. She said she was writing. I obviously can neither confirm nor deny this, as I was in bed sleeping.

There are times when things feel better between us, and then there are the other times when she is distant. I've asked a few times during the distant moments if everything was ok, which she's replied to with a yes. As a matter of fact, after she came to bed at 3 am, she volunteered the information that she was writing, after I commented it was 3 am. I wrapped my arms around her and told her I love you, to which I get the dreaded I know response.

DD(3) stayed in her bed all night last night, and didn't get up to climb in our bed until I was getting up to get ready for work. No accidents, so I took her to the bathroom. So far, I've had her go to the bathroom between 5:30 and 6am for the last 3 mornings, and it's been working.

Made coffee for WW, hugged and kissed her bye, and told her I love you. Surprise, got an I love you too. Then I told her DD(3) went to the bathroom and should be good to go. She said thank you, and I left.

Here's a kicker, when I got to work this morning, I discovered she sent me 2 emails yesterday. The first one was asking me if she could attend a get together in St Louis. This get together is for a message board called Literotica, and her best friend is attending. Well, on Sunday, after the picnic, WW was telling me about this get together and she told her best friend I won't let her go. Now, at first I was thinking to myself she never asked me and I never said no. Then I realized, she was saying, I would never let her go. Truth be told, I don't think I have the trust for that at this point. That's where the second email comes in. The second email asked me to forget about the first email as she doesn't have the money to go anyway. I'm just surprised that she would consider asking me if it was ok to go, before she would have merely informed me she was going.

There are times when I see things being different, sometimes better. Then there are the other moments, and I'm like what the heck are we doing???

Counseling tomorrow, looks like we'll revisit the online time thing again, mostly I'll ask exactly how she plans to compromise since it wasn't mentioned last time, and I haven't seen any change. I also plan on bringing a copy of the POJA for the counselor to look at. A friend of mine that's been in counseling before gave me a suggestion. That suggestion was we should make a list of 10 things for each other that the other person can do to make us happy, and then do 1 of those 10 every day, but not the same one every day. I want to propose that too and see what the counselor has to say. I think this is a good idea, because I don't know many things I can do for WW on a day to day basis that she would appreciate, besides making the coffee before I leave.

Welcome Juke - can you believe how many loyal men are here? Bunches and bunches.

RW- Recovery is like a rollercoaster too. Have you posted on the recovery board yet?

I sometimes wish I wasn't a loyal husband. If I didn't care I wouldn't be hurting like this. Its bad enough to be betrayed, but to still love them is a great burden. I always thought I'd throw her out/kill the OM etc if there was ever an affair, yet now I am here sadness and disappointment rules over anger and revenge.