Originally posted by TooSoonToBeComfortable:


I recently told her that I needed her to reinforce her committment to the marriage and to me and she said, "I will not kiss your A$$ and I don't want you to kiss mine."

Hmmmmmmm

Response option if this ever gets thrown at you again:

"I think your [censored] is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. However, if we are talking about mutual regard and respect for each other , I could easily commit to that. Could you?"

Use words like
regard
respect
commit
honor

when you discuss the relationship you desire

use LOVE occasionally, but use the other words more frequently.

Your wife is looking for ways to serve her anger onto you. Look for ways to difuse her anger by showing her respect and by NOT returning anger. Do NOT volly her anger back at her, she'll only hit it even harder in your direction. This will not work right away, but eventually the lab mouse learns that pushing certain leavers does not merit a food-reward morsel. She will stop pushing that anger button if it no longer works. If you even occasionally reward her by reacting , she'll keep playing. (think of slot machines in Las Vegas. People only play because they are infrequently rewarded)

Pep

Damn, Pepper, did you have to say Las Vegas. You know it is a trigger for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

After DD, I let my wife off the hook. I even took the blame for her having an affair but she had to rewrite the history of our marriage to justify it.

Expressions of remorse came later from FWW. It was something I needed to hear. I did plan A for a long time but I have been blamed again for her unhappiness of losing her friends by quitting her job.

I decided I am tired of the roller coaster ride mostly due to her emotional state. She has fought depression all her life and that is a challenge all by itself. Her latest biggest thing I took away from her was her independence and freedom. She was at her job for three years. The first two years she hated her immediate co-workers but the last year she was in seventh heaven. Her last year was when she found Mr. Wonderful.

I gave her an "independence and freedom" plan yesterday which goes like this:

1. Quit working in our company and go find another job.
2. As soon as you have a steady income, go secure an apartment.
3. I will assist her in moving to the apartment.
4. I will take over all personal, business, school loans and any liability, since I am the primary income earner anyway.
5. She signs over the rights of the business to me completely.
6. She does not have to pay support for the two teens at home.
7. I keep the house, kids, furniture, and the dog.
8. She keeps her car, has her own furnished apartment, can contact her old BF she had the affair with and can live happily ever after.
9. She walks away an independent and free woman.
10. Part of the stipulations of this was she must look herself in the mirror first and see the attractive but aging 46 year old woman with a blemished past and present. I then said to her in a very matter of fact calm manner:
a. the day after you are free, you still drink more than you should (she may be tetering on or flirting with alcoholism),
b. you remain the spouse who broke your marriage vows without blinking an eye,
c. you remain the good liar that you became because of the affair,
d. you remain the deceitful person you became,
e. you remain hardened by life and your newfound lifestyle will make you harder,
f. you lost your innosence of the loving and loyal wife and mom,
f. you take your depression state with you,
g. you then have chosen your independence over your kids and family labeling you forever,
h. you will get laid by Mr. Wonderful as often as you want to, until he tires of you, until a girl his age (29) comes along to settle down with him and have his kids, or until he scores and dumps her.
i. I told her she will be forced back into another relationship so another man can help support her since she makes minimal income.
j. I told her I don't have the strength to deal with her drinking which will be our next challenge in our marriage,
k. My last term and statement to her is that I will never take her back and I will look for someone who wants me for me, a decent and loyal family man.

I then told her to make the choice and if you choose independence and freedom in your new life, let's end our marriage sooner than later. I told her I have no desire to fight her or to fight for her anymore. I told her that I don't even tell you the words "I love you" because of her ongoing uncertain state in her life and to protect myself from more pain and suffering. I told that her kissing, hugging, and falling in love with the OM changed me forever and she tells me she will not reinforce my role in her life and this marriage that I am willing to move on forever.

She has been out of the fog for a few months so her decisions are going to be with a clear mind. I told her this morning that I need to know if she is quitting so I can replace her at work and she told me this morning she doesn't want to leave our business or the marriage. She didn't touch a drop of wine last night or tonight that I am aware of.

THe sad part about this is, when I write down all the things she has done during our marriage, before our marriage, and her personal overall condition as a person, I wonder why I even want to stay married to her at all. I could do better but my kids will be affected forever as a result of a divorce.

Long but needed letter,

TooSoon

Hi guys. I got the following from the surviving infidelity site. It is about loving detachment.

Loving detachment is a healthy huge step in the right direction. What is says is "I may have been blind and blindsided, but now I see clearly what was obscured in the affair fog. I not only was involved in a catastrophe of unimaginable horror, but survived it.

But merely surviving is not good enough, for I refuse to be victimized and/or a bystander in my life any longer. I deserve to thrive in my life, so I will make the choices that will allow me the best opportunities to do that.

I will take each day as it comes, do the best I can in each moment with one foot firmly in the present and one foot heading for a great future. Every day I will do what I can when I can to make sure that happens, moment to moment.

I am not willing to handcuff someone to me to travel that life journey with me. If they choose to do so voluntarily, I expect the Golden Rule to be one of our main operating principles. I will not accept someone I am in a primary relationship with to make unilateral decisions that affect me.

I will not accept that I give or get less than I would want for myself or any loved one. The greatest gift one soul can give another is the one of themself, the gift of loving and being loved. I will not give or treat that privilege lighty when offered to me. It is too valuable, priceless because it is special and unique, to give or get yet waste it by not recognizing and acting on its full potential as well as its true reality.

Some may love with all they've got, but it may not be enough to be a healthy relationship. Some may love "too much" which is just as damaging in its own way.

I will focus on loving detachment in order for my partner and myself to have the best environment in which to grow and live in as healthy and successful manner as we deserve and need. It is not an option, it is a daily necessity.

I will love and be loved with the awareness that love is a decision and a privilege, not a cage of any type for either of us."

Believer, that was great. Going to print it out and try to read it everyday.

I have to start over, but still raise two kids... those are some values I would like to instill in my kids.

Do you have a link to that site ...?

<small>[ August 16, 2004, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Tom - How is everything going down there? We still have not heard from Tree Reich.

Tom,

Is your wife still lurking? When is she going to post?

Believer:

Your post is the expressed words of how I came to feel and have now acted on with my FWW. She must contribute to the rebuilding of the M as much as I or maybe she even needs to go the extra mile since she had the A.

Thanks for your valuable words.

TooSoon

I don't know if my wife is cheating on me. She did before we were married.....only 2 months or so after we got together actually. We have been married over a year now and have a little girl. She got a pap smear a month ago and was notified that she has chlamydia. She says she has done nothing wrong, but I don't know....it seems a little far fetched to me for her to get it any way other than infidelity. Otherwise it would have been found before during or after the pregnancy.....right? Can anyone tell me if there is any other way she could have gotten it?

Believer, that 'loving detachment' post is inspired.

I can only hope that I arrive at a place where I can truly demonstrate loving detachment.

I HAVE survived unimaginable horror, iHAVE learned quickly what I need to do and I am executing as well as I am able. There is hope BUT i am aware that too much may be broken for us to rebuild our M.

I already have gathered enough self respect that I will not be stayed with as a comfortable convenience stop. I am not one of life's comfort breaks.

If my WW has any ability to love me again, or to be IN love with me again I will work with her to rebuiild our M. If she does not I must hope to be brave enough to let her go and move on. As you say love is not shackling someone to you for conveneince.

Also I have noticed a change in my love for my WW over the past month.

I have felt her tangibly withdrawing from my LB$.

There is definitely not as much love there as there was a month ago.

There is enough for me to plan A but I would not now do ANYTHING to get her back. She must choose me as she did once before. I will strive to make that a sensible and loving choice for her.

If she does not, I am beginning to see how I might cope with that. Not now, I couldn't cope, but at some time in the future: I might be able to.

Thank you for the post, it was wonderful.

Hi loyal experts,

Found an Internet terminal just outside Zion. I even have cell phone service inside my tent; does it still count as camping?

The trip out here was tough. All that time to think, without the usual distractions and support, got me pretty far down. When I finally reached Zion yesterday and came out the end of the long tunnel, I thought of the name of the place and its meaning: a sanctuary, a place of refuge. The canyon looks like a huge cathedral in a way. It was "the magic hour", the time just as the sun begins to set. The walls of the canyon almost glowed. Had to pull over, and cried hard for a while. It's so beautiful here, and in a strange way I do feel safe from all the destruction of the sparrow and OM.

Anyway, I hope the Floridians are all okay. I'll check in again soon.

GC

Hey Gray!

I didn't know you were on holiday!!! Wondered what you had been up to.

No, having a cell in your tent cancels out the whole "roughing it" concept <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I tell my daughter when we are on the island and she starts whining about leaving already (mom I need a phone, mom I need the puter, mom I need a shower, can we goooooo?) that we will not leave until we are "one with nature'. So now three minutes after we arrive she walks around telling all that she is "one with nature".

Saw your picture on the album - looking good pal!

Believer, things are going fairly well. At work anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thanks for asking.

SpinningTheDrain, She still lurks, but I don't know if she'll ever post. Mostly it is just to check up on me.

GC, Hope your enjoying yourself. I've been to Zion myself ... it's beautiful out there. Visited with my WW and had a ball.

Lion78 - Your wife got her STD after she was pregnant. When you are pregnant they test you for everything, even if you have been tested before. Trust me on this, I'm PG right now and they did the whole series of tests. There is only one way I know of to get an STD but if you want to know for sure ask your doctor when you go to get tested.

Well weaver, my last shower was at my friends' house in Boulder on Sunday morning, so there's that. I think I'm not quite together enough to be alone under the stars and feel good. I talked to my brother and car4love last night, which made me feel a thousand times better.

I almost threw my wedding band off a cliff today, but didn't have the guts.

Well, off to dinner.

GC

graycloud - I hope you realize that you are not camping out. You have too many conveniences - but still hope you are having a great time.

Lion - Well I read up on Chlamydia all day. It seems that your could be the carrier. Please get tested.

Well, i was tested before she was pregnant; it was negative. Blood word, swab and all that....had a yeast infection. But, who knows, maybe i am. I have been faithful and she is the only woman i've been with in around five years. I suppose i can ride it out and see what happens. Thanks for all of your help. It's great to know there are some decent people still alive. I have an appoinment for thursday to be tested, so I'll let you know if you want how it all turns out, okay? Thanks again.

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Lion78 ]</small>

Well, it has been awhile for me, couple days to a week at least on this board. Spent quite some time reading up on what is going on. I will start a new thread to update my sit.

Heard something last night I wanted to share. It was from a TV show.

This girl was in a lot of pain and singing about it (not because she wanted to, but that is another story). She was singing about how she was in heaven and got pulled from it by the people that cared about her most. Now, back in the real world she is un-happy. Compaired to heaven, the real world is harsh and bright and loud and scary and all that.

The chours was something like "Give me something to sing about" i.e Give me a reason to live. Because now, she was like a robot. One of the other songs was "Going through the motions". She had no desire to really live and thought at some level the world would be fine without her. She just wanted to be back in heaven. She wanted to know why she should be in this world.

Just before she died, not really trying to kill herself, but acting very self destructive, someone stopped her. His reply, in the form of singing was: "The pain that you feel, you only can heal, by living, you have to go on living". And then, someone else followed up with a famous (I think) quote "the hardest thing about life is living in it".

I often forget that I should try to live. The pain that I feel chokes the life out of me. When I am down, it is hard for me to do anything. I feel quite alone and wonder if the life insurance I have could offset the loss of a father.

I only brought this up becasue little things like that help me through the next hour. I struggle with my situation on a regular basis and when I hear something that helps me, I just wanted to pass it along. I have not done the show justise with my abridged version, but the meaning and feeling really helped me out last night.

Any guess' to the show? The episode name was "Once more with feeling" and of course ended with a kiss. Not that they all lived happily ever after, but the showed closed nicely.

canthishelp -

If you are feeling suicidal, or even think you are feeling suicidal, call a Suicide Prevention Hotline at once.

Please realize that no amount of insurance money would make up for your loss in your childrens lives.

The emotional wound you have now will heal, just like a physical wound. You will be happy again, you will enjoy your life again.

Stick with us, and we will support you.

canthishelp - Check this out:

The Doctor, Chemisist and Engineer in a Bit of A Bad Spot
Once upon a time there lived three men: a doctor, a chemist, and an engineer. For some reason all three offended the king and were sentenced to die on the same day.

The day of the execution arrived, and the doctor was led up to the guillotine.

As he strapped the doctor to the guillotine, the executioner asked, "Head up or head down?"

"Head up," said the doctor.

"Blindfold or no blindfold?"

"No blindfold."

So the executioner raised the axe, and z-z-z-z-ing! Down came the blade--and stopped barely an inch above the doctor's neck. Well, the law stated that if an execution didn't succeed the first time the prisoner had to be released, so the doctor was set free.

Then the chemist was led up to the guillotine.

"Head up or head down?" said the executioner.

"Head up."

"Blindfold or no blindfold?"

"No blindfold."

So the executioner raised his axe, and z-z-z-z-ing! Down came the blade--and stopped an inch above the chemist's neck. Well, the law stated that if the execution didn't succeed the first time the prisoner had to be released, so the chemist was set free.

Finally the engineer was led up to the guillotine.

"Head up or head down?"

"Head up."

"Blindfold or no blindfold?"

"No blindfold."

So the executioner raised his axe, but before he could cut the rope, the engineer yelled out:

"WAIT! I see what the problem is!"