SCdazed -

Wow, what a story. You can have a better marriage than ever. But you both will need to work on it. Please check out the emotional needs questionnaire here, and see if you can start meeting each other's top needs.

There are a lot of men here going through the same thing. Hope you will get some support from them.

Joey,

That's one heck of a story. But it sounds like you're in a good place now and really have a grip on things. You seem very understanding.

I think knowledge and counseling are key here. I had a chance at rcovery with my WS but we never went to counseling together. I tried, but she continued to go alone and work on her. I may be wrong, but beware of this "working on me" your wife is doing. I suppose it depends on the therapist too, but I can tell you this, my WS told me " I've figured out a lot about who I am and what I want out of life over the last few months of therapy, I want it all out of life and I can get it... I'm leaving you again because I can't get it with you". Keep in mind all situations are different, but I thought you should know.

About forgiveness. You can forgive, unfortunately you can never forget. And I don't believe you have to actually forgive OM if you don't want to. "How Can I Forgive You" by Janis Abrahms Spring is a good book to help you better understand forgiving.

For now, show your wife how you love her with your actions. Don't smother her, just show her in subtle ways. But definitely talk with a qualified counseler. You'll get great advice here from everyone, but we're not pros, we're just people going through the same thing you are. Keep posting, you 'll find many caring friends here, and it really helps to get through this. Good luck...
Joe

Back to the original thread content....just checking in...

It's good to see that wanting to make a marriage work after a couple of As by the wife doesn't make me a chump...

-C-

We did the emotional needs questionaire last night. A lot of good things came out of it. I learned a lot that I didn't know about my WS but overall it was a bad experience. I had just read the honesty chapter in SAA so I was trying to be completely honest when filling out my questionaire. I did the "Physical Attractiveness" section and revealed that her appearance was more important to me than she had previously realized. My wife is a very attractive woman but she has gained some weight (about 20lbs) since we got married. This doesn't really bother me that much, but finding out that it bothered me at all was a shocker to her. Now she has taken in completely out of perspective and assumes that I don't find her sexy anymore. And that I have unrealistic expectations about her fitness and looks for the rest of our marriage.

I told her that that was not the case. That I just want her to try to look the best that she can realistically look. I don't expect her to be super skinny. I just want her to make an effort to look good for me. More so than she has in the past. That seeing her make the effort was a need for me. To make eating right and exercising a priority and to do it for me. To fix her hair and wear makeup more often. To want to look good for me. I told her that what had really hurt was when I noticed that before she met up with OM when I took her down to see him (read my story above) she was fixing her makeup and her hair, looked nice and seem to be really concerned about her looks for him. I didn't remember her taking that much care for her looks for me lately. I told her that that had hurt me and that was what I was getting at. I just want her to want to look as good as she could. It doesn't mean that I don't find her attractive anymore.

Now she says that she doesn't mean to punish me for being honest, but she doesn't think she will be able to fulfill my most important need for sexual fulfillment for a long time, now that she knows what I think. She says that she needs to feel sexy and she doesn't see that happening for a while.

Should I have kept my mouth shut and not revealed that her weight ever bothered me at all? Did she really think that I didn't mind the extra weight? Should I have just kept the illusion that her weight didn't bother me at all? It seems like I've hurt her unnecessarilly and now I can't take it back. Afterall, it's not that big a deal for me. But now she is making it into a HUGE deal! She slept on the couch last night because she said that she didn't want to be near me. She did say that she loved me before she went to sleep and this morning when I left for work. I was struggling not to lose it when I told her that I loved her and said goodbye on my way out the door. Maybe it was too soon to do the questionaire and too soon for that kind of honesty. She obviously was not prepared.

Yikes. Well lots of ladies don't like that part of the questionnaire. And it probably hurt her to hear that from you.

I would explain that you want a better marriage than before, and it requires honesty - but that the physical attractiveness is not as big a thing as she is taking it.

Then see if you can exercise together, or walk, or something she likes.

SCd:

There've been a lot of discussions about the "attractive spouse need" on here over the years I've been here.

Like a lot of others, I don't think it "counts" as a legit need.

My W and I have never filled out the ENQ and yet we're slowly recovering.

Radical honesty shouldn't be about telling your S something like "I think that's an ugly dress", because that's an opinion matter, it's not a "truth."

In this sense, the term "honesty" is 2 general. Honesty is about conveying how you feel, truth is about stating facts. Honesty is often defined 2 encompass truth as well as honesty about feelings, but with "radical honesty", being such a "radical" thing, we must know what we're referring 2.

-ol' 2long

2Long-

Yeah, that was definately, "Radical Honesty" that she wasn't ready to handle. I wish I had never filled that out the way that I did. The rest of the ENQ was very helpful tho. I learned a lot about her and vice versa. I just think that part should be modified or taken out to save undue hurt.

Now at least the needs are all on the table, so to speak. Start meeting her top needs the best you can. Hopefully she will soon want to meet some of yours. This takes some time, so don't expect overnight changes.

My WW seems to have gotten over her shock some of what came up from the ENQ and we are eagerly working on them. I am trying to be more affectionate and give admiration and she is trying hard to look her best for me.

Now she is wanting to seriously start trying to have a baby. I am seeing a Urologist to correct some minor problems on my end. And we have always said that we wanted to start trying about 3 or 4 months before she graduates (which is about a year and a half from now). I said what about school and finances, but she seems confident that God won't give us a baby until we are ready so she is wanting to start trying now. It has been only about 7 and a half week since D-day. We have come a long way in recovering our marriage from the affair. But I am afraid that we may be jumping the gun in starting a family. Any thoughts or advice?

SCdazed -

Wow you're moving right along pretty fast. I would say it is too early to bring a child into the relationship. A baby changes everything.

However I am not your wife, and this is something you will have to POJA about.

Would she consider posting and reading here?

What does POJA stand for? And I am not sure she would be willing to post here. She doesn't know that I post here. I do it to have an anonymous outlet since I haven't found a Christian counselor to talk to yet. And since we haven't met with a marriage counselor yet.

I don't think she would care that I post here, but I don't think she would be open to talk about the affair or anything right now. I have stopped mentioning it.... One reason is because I really don't have many questions left and another is because I don't want to dwell on it and keep bringing it up in her face. She gets very upset and a little angry every time I bring it up now.

Here is the link.
POJA

Hi believer and LHs,

Believer, wanted to tell you I'm sorry I didn't get on your thread on Saturday. We were both caught up in our messes that day, but you still took the time to post to me. Thank you for that.

Okay, another thing.

What do y'all think about the ability of the LH to continue in plan A/B vs. that of the LW?

If it's true that men can hang on longer - and from what I've seen here there is some truth to that - is there an easy explanation?

Sometimes I doubt my motivation. I wonder, is it purely the strength of my love and my integrity?

Or am I partly motivated by my demolished self-esteem? No matter how many nice things are said about me, I'm not confident in my ability to someday land a woman as clever, interesting, and attractive as the sparrow.

I doubt my ability to do it as a dude in his mid-30s. There are certainly fewer appealing single women available. Finding someone from the crop of people at this age has to be a little tougher than doing it when you're 22. Here I am complaining, and there are people in their 40s and 50s in the same situation.

So... here I am on the shrink's couch. Didn't mean to go off on that tangent, but any thoughts on all this?

GC

Gray -

You crack me up. I know that you are hurting now, and never think that you will find someone as great as the sparrow. And actually I still think that she will be back.

However, for debate, let's assume that she does not come back. You are young, hot, and talented. You WILL find someone else.

I am much older than you. I had my first son at 34, and my second at 37. So trust me, all the good ones come around in your thirties.

Compared to you I am freakin ugly. So you will do fine. You WILL find someone that deserves you. You will be happy once again. It is scarey at first, but you will do just fine.

another loyal husband here. getting by, 5 minutes at a time usually, but getting by none the less. i found this site last weekend. have read a few threads and posted a little. i don't have access to a computer very often, and at this time it is hard to really talk about things, let alone type up the whole story.

my story

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=032387

sorry, double post.

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: crackdaddy ]</small>

crackdaddy - I think you are doing well on the MB program so far. Usually I don't suggest that the WS move out, but you were just being a good father.

I do like your plan to move back in and have your son live with you.

Quick post.
Strange times FWW is behaving like the A never happened - being thoughtful, joky, although not affectionate ( no kisses or hugs). Doing things together. YET she hasn't removed ONE of the hurtful triggers she has around the house, has told me point blank that she will never discuss the A with me but she is trying to work on our M.

Way I see it is I can plan A ( sort of) for another month or so ( A is dead) to allow for teh withdrawal clock being reset by her talking to OM last week ( even if it WAS for him to tell her to stay away, he wants his GF and son). Then I start to raise the stakes.

I have considered a lot these weeks since cessation of hostlities and I WILL NOT STAND for a return to the M we had just prior to the A.

FWW just wants to rebuild her entirely selfish seperate life from me once again while I bankroll it, and she thinks its OK if we have dull sex once per month and she irons me a shirt.

So much work to do, but once again, for now, I must be patient.

Bob, it's like the Foo Fighters say...

"It's times like these you give and give again."

GC