I will definately be using the breathing techniques. Thank you for the advise.

I just got off the phone with WH. He is at the airport in California and getting ready to come home. He says, "We really need to have a talk when I get home."

I ask, "About what?"

He responds, "What the hell do you think I want to talk about? I'm not going to deal with what you're doing. I'm coming home but from there I don't know what's going to happen now."

At this point I should have babbled back at him I realize now. However, I said, "I'm assuming it's about our talk last night but I want you to know right up front that I am not going to be treated badly tonight because of what happened. If you want to use it as an excuse for backing out of your promises I can't stop you. But you need to recognize it for what it is. It's an excuse to run away."

He says he refuses to talk about this at the airport. No discussions what-so-ever. That's fine with me, I just wanted to know if he was still coming home. So, after telling me no discussions what-so-ever, he wants to know if I've talked with my mom and what she had to say. I told him he was right and a discussion at the airport was not appropriate right now and I would talk with him when he gets home. That turned back at him, but he's no doubt even madder now.

I wish I could just fast forward six months to see what happens with everything in the end. I don't want to be strong enough to deal with this situation!!!

Pep has the best advice - just babble back to him. Do not LB, do not accuse or have disrespectful judgements. Pretend we are there with you, watching you.

When he comes in furious, just tell him you are doing the best you can. When he screams about how could you do this to him, tell him that you want to save your family.

Then we he goes on and on about you have done the ultimate betrayal, tell him you are sorry, you did the best you could.

Then he will say he can never forgive you. Tell him you want to save your family.

Later he will say how could you do this? I can't ever be with you. I can never trust you. Tell him that you want to be married to him, and are doing the best you can.

Continue on like a broken record. Take all the blame. Tell him you cannot make him do anything, but love him and want to preserve your marriage.

Stuff all of the LB's and come here later to vent. Also admire him for doing what he has for our country, and tell him you know that this is extremely painful for him. Tell him you are sorry.

Tell him you hate that he feels so bad, but you are really trying to do the best that you can, and on and on and on.

Remember to agree with whatever he babbles.

He says: "This isn't going to work out between us."

You say, : "I agree. This isn't working out. Let's do it differently so it can work out."

He says: "We got married for the wrong reasons."

You say: "I agree we got married for some reason. We can stay married for the right reasons."

He says: "You cannot make me love you."

You say: "I agree I cannot make you love me . I love you anyway."

Start with agreeing with his babble .... then continue with what you want to say.

NEVER argue with his feelings. just acknowledge they are what he feels.

Stay safe.

Pep

And he will say all kinds of hateful things to bait you. Do not take the bait. Pretend that we are watching you. He wants to justify his affair. Don't give him any ammo.

Just keep up the broken record - I'm doing the best I can, I'm sorry you feel that way, I've made lots of mistakes, blah, blah, blah.

Well, we're off to pick him up. I've read and reread many of the posts here, including everything in this thread. I am committed to following through with a good PLAN A and utilizing all the good ideas. I WILL NOT let his hurtful statements hurt me. (and I'll repeat that all the way there!) Wish me luck.

Good luck, Faith! You will do great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong> Has exposure ever backfired on anyone here? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, exposure NEVER backfires.

Unless it is untruthful.

Did you tell the truth?

Assuming you did, exposure cannot possibly backfire.

Of course, it all depends on what you're trying to achieve.

If you're trying to expose the truth, to let the truth cast judgement on the actions of the infidels, you cannot go wrong with exposure.

If your goal is to get a chance to restore your marraige, i.e., promoting an end to the affair, exposure is not always effective. My situation is a case in point. The reason exposure isn't aways effective is that some cases involve infidels who do not possess the integrity to even recognize that they are being inhumane and selfish.

So, if exposure DOESN'T eventually promote an end to the affair, I offer that the spouse isn't worthy of a marriage.

In these situations, we (BSs) are better off cutting our losses and moving on, IMHO.

Hello. Well, WH is home. It has been a hard 24 hours though. When we met him at the airport there was nothing, no hello or even a quick kiss. He did pay a lot of attention to the kids though. On the way home is was short and rude to me (kids were sleeping). When we got home I started making dinner while he played with the kids and walked around looking at the house as if he was taking inventory.

I had been nice and accomodating with no LB's since we picked him up but I was reaching my end point so I went to see a movie. I just told him that I thought it would be nice if he and the kids had some time by themselves so I was going to a movie after dinner and would see him later. He was a little shocked but said okay.

When I came home, they were still watching movies so I went down and kissed the kids goodnight and told him the same and went to bed. I woke up at 4 am by myself and found that he and the kids had a slumber party in D's room.

Then this morning I got up and ready for work, made breakfast and went up to see him. I just asked, point blank, what his intentions were. Not about our relationship, but if he was staying with us or somewhere else and if he was still willing to try. After a lot of running around the subject he says that he is planning on staying at the house, not working on things and has accepted a job in San Antonio with OW and will be leaving Sept. 15th instead of mid October. He has no desire to try because he is totally in love with OW, feels more comfortable with her than he ever has with me, really understands what he has been missing all this time, and is in too much pain being away from her even this long. Apparently, he always knew I wasn't the one, but felt that someday I could maybe be the one. Now that he has OW though, he doesn't need anyone else to fill anything. He doesn't need "guy" time or friend time, he just needs her. I couldn't have gotten through this without a total cry-fest if I wasn't thinking FOG FOG FOG to myself. I do believe he has feelings for her but it is such a fantasy he is living in! He told me that when they were deployed together they were never separated. Even being away from each other to work was so difficult and painful. How the heck do they plan to live?

I think he will probably end up going down there to be with her. Although by the end of our conversation he did say he would go to MC and if something good happens he won't ignore it (blah, blah) I expect that he's just saying that to keep me appeased until he goes. I'm just going with PLAN A and trying not to LB. Time will tell I guess.

Apparently her parents weren't too excited when they found out about this A. WH told me today he has to call to apologize to them for being "harrassed" (by one call?). He thinks I should be upset that now he may have an uphill battle should he ever meet them. Yeah...I holding back the tears on that one!

Anyway, I'm going home soon. It's my birthday! and the kids are making a surprise for me. Scary! and sweet.

Happy Birthday. I have been waiting for you to check in with us. You did extremely well - great job.

As they all do, he is rewriting the history of the marriage. It's just fog, but very painful. So stay in Plan A, and let him go if he wants to. Be sure to tell him that you love him and wish he wouldn't, but you have no control over what he does.

I think you are going to be able to beat this. You got through the worst part with flying colors.

Thank you, believer. I'm doing my best. I couldn't be doing this without the support, encouragment and wisdom of everyone here though.

Apparently her parents weren't too excited when they found out about this A.

Gee, that's a crying shame <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


WH told me today he has to call to apologize to them for being "harrassed" (by one call?).

He's looking like an idiot-adulteror to them about now.

Mail her parents the last family photo you took together.

He thinks I should be upset that now he may have an uphill battle should he ever meet them. Yeah...I holding back the tears on that one!

~sob~ me too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HaPpY BiRtHdAy

Pep

<small>[ August 09, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

For someone that had less than a week to study up on the principles here, you are doing excellent. Just keep it up, and come here to vent.

Try to be happy and nonconfrontational. You have a battle plan and he does not.

Hello! Yesterday was pretty good in the beginning but I'm afraid it went downhill last night. I ended up leaving work early to go out for a birthday lunch with a girlfriend. WH said he wanted to get the house cleaned up and make dinner for my birthday so he had no problem with me going. I just made sure to go home and change into a cute little dress before going. He says, "You're going to change to out to lunch?" I smiled and said "Of course I am." Smiled and went to finish getting ready. I left and had a great time.

I come back three hours later and WH is vacuuming and helping the kids finish cleaning up. Then he walks to the laundry room and all of a sudden the door slams shut. Kids look to me, one with tears in her eyes so I settle them down and send them out to play and go talk to WH. It turns out that he's upset because there is "no respect for him or his things". He found his ties in the dirty clothes (I think they fell off the rack and the kids picked them up with the dirty clothes), the garage is a mess, the yard doesn't look like it should, and the kids rooms were messy when he came home. I told him I know things weren't as great as he or I would have liked them to be. I explained that with with the 2 girls and a baby, I have felt overwhelmed and have done as much as I can to keep the house in good repair and clean while giving the children the attention they need. I pointed out that we did quite a few large projects in the yard this spring and I am trying to keep everything up. I said, why don't we try to get these things done together so that we are both happy with the results. Apparently, that's not the point. It's that we didn't respect it enough to begin with and he's tired of it. And he is tired of the kids not respecting him. I should have said, "You're right, let work on that." or something along those lines, but I took the bait and we ended up talking and eventually got into the problems I have had with the girls since he deployed last Sept. Our youngest D has had nightmares and anxiety issues since Oct. that have come and gone. I broke down and told him that he's right, they are out of control in some respects and I feel like a failure as a mother. I suggested that when he leaves on Sept. 15 that maybe the girls should go with him since I believe they need a dad in their lives right now. He did not have a good response to that! First it was how can you be so selfish as to take them away from their school and friends and home. Then the real issue (in my opinion) came out. He's planning on living with OW and she has an apartment. I imagine the image of the love nest is shattered when you put two kids into the mix. Being a step mom at 22 is a little more intimidating in real life than it is when you're imagining it. Now, I don't know that I would actually have them go with him. But, I do know that I am and have been feeling that I am not enough for them right now. Maybe they do need to be with him for a while. The girls have always had a very close relationship with their dad and I honestly believe that many of the emotional and disciple problems are due to his absence. These are common problems in a deployment, but another year with him gone may just be too much. Like I said, I don't know where this will go, but his reaction says a lot to me.

Later, he decided he wanted to talk again to make sure that I still understood that we aren't "working on things". (a change from our earlier conversation in the morning) He wants me to be sure and understand that he loves her, is leaving on Sept. 15th, and there is pretty much no hope for our marriage. I said that was not what I heard that morning so maybe we need to clarify what was going on. Another explosion followed. He yelled that I never listen and that he couldn't make things any more clear. So, I told him that my definition of "working on it" was going to MC, which he said he would do, and seeing what happens, which is exactly what he said. He doesn't think that is working on it and doesn't want to give me false hope. To me, even a glimmer of hope is something to work on and I feel I have that if I can keep him here for a while and get to MC. That calmed him down some and I think he understood where I was coming from. So I made the comment, I think a glimmer of hope is a lot better than no chance in hell, so I am going to be optimistic. His reply? Yeah, well the chance is barely over no chance in hell! I was done! That was just mean so I walked away and told him that if he wants to just be cruel, he can do it by himself because I was going to bed. I walked away and he followed to say he wasn't being cruel. He doesn't even see what he is doing.

I sat him down and said "You need to understand something here, honey. You do not have two women fighting over you right now. The man that you are right now is not a man I would accept in my life. At this time, you are a pathetic shell of the man you were and the man you can be. You are a pathetic shell of the father you were and the father you could be. OW can have you if this is all you can be anymore. But you know what, I believe you are and can be more. I have hope, a glimmer of hope, that somewhere within you is a man, a husband, and a father worth fighting for. That is why I'm here. That is why I am fighting. That is why I stand here and take the cruel and hurtful words you say. Not for who you are right now, because the kids and I deserve better than that, but for who you were and can be. Maybe that's gone. But me and our children have a right to fight for the man and father we had. So, this isn't all about you. It's about the three children we have and the family that is breaking. If there is a glimmer of hope that you are more than what I see now, then I will damn well hold on to the glimmer of hope that our marriage has a chance."

What did he probably hear? Blah, blah, blah. But I hope at some point some of those words sink in. If nothing else, it helped me to say it.

Today, I have been back to PLAN A. I woke up, got the kids ready, played UNO with the girls and rolled around on the floor with the baby. He was upstairs but I know he heard us having fun down there. I let him sleep in, made breakfast and before I left for work just walked up and kissed his cheek and said I do believe in what we can make then walked out. I ran up to Starbucks and got his favorite drink, stopped by the house again, walked in and gave it to him and walked back out to go to work. He came outside to stop me and give me a hug and say thank you. I just smiled and said have a good day with the kids and left. I have GOT to find a way to stay in PLAN A even when provoked. Here's hoping for a better end to today than yesterday!

Your are gooood at this... you really are!

I love putting the idea in his head that he might need to take the kids with him when he lives with OW, the older ones anyway, and be full-time Daddy .... with 22 year-old adultery girlfriend looking on ... These are his kids too... and taking responsibility like a man for his progeny shouldn't be a big deal!!! ~LOL~

Your Plan A rocks!

Pep

Good Job! Wow! I'm impressed. You are clearly a very special person and I pray that he can see that through the horrible fog clouding his brain right now.

Even if he did hear "Blah..Blah..Blah.." somewhere deep in his soul he really heard you. Keep up the good work!

My hat is off to you. You are managing a home, children, job, and foggy husband.

By the way, childhood night terrors are very common. My daughter had them. Her doctor told me not to try to wake her but just try to calm her down and comfort her. She never remembered them the next day. With time, it will pass.

faith... it's a little har5d to typ[e right now becasuse I have my head tilted back to keep my brains from coming out of my nos3. I'm impressed - you are really something!

Check out www.flylady.net for housekeeping tips. Believer sent me there the other day and it's helping me a little. The trick of keeping a clean kitchen sink really works - it snowballs and pretty soon your whole house is looking better.

GC

Wow. I felt like I pretty much blew it yesterday. I guess I wasn't so bad after all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep - I thought that was a pretty good one too! This morning I printed out information on a couple of the private schools in San Antonio and left them by my computer. That should keep him thinking!

jph - Thank you for the information on the night terrors. They are one of the scariest things I've dealt with in terms of the children. It hurts to not be able to calm them down.

greycloud - Are you okay? It doesn't sound like your having a good afternoon over there. Thank you for the link on keeping the house clean. That's not so much my problem though, other than the kids rooms. It's the outside and the garage. At the end of the day after cleaning up after the kids, caring for them, playing with them and working, I really don't care if the yard has been watered or not. I'd like for it to be, the damn watering-fairies keep missing my house and I'm too tired to track them down! As for the garage, there are spiders in there even if I can't see them and I am NOT going in there!!! If the kids got into something in there, that's too bad and he can go wrestle with the arachnid population that is just waiting for me to step foot inside for their dinner!

WH just called and wants to drop off lunch for me. Hmmm.

Pep - I thought that was a pretty good one too! This morning I printed out information on a couple of the private schools in San Antonio and left them by my computer. That should keep him thinking!

Bwhaaaaaa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It really is not a very fun affair with two little girls in tow.... "Daddy, we're hungry. Can we go to Mac Donalds?"

Keep up the good work.

Lunch huh ... well, we'll see.

Keep him off balance.... just a bit.

Pep

[QUOTE]Originally posted by faithinme:
[QB] I just made sure to go home and change into a cute little dress before going. He says, "You're going to change to out to lunch?" I smiled and said "Of course I am." Smiled and went to finish getting ready. I left and had a great time.

I come back three hours later ..... he walks to the laundry room and all of a sudden the door slams shut. Kids look to me, one with tears in her eyes so I settle them down and send them out to play and go talk to WH. It turns out that he's upset because there is "no respect for him or his things".

OOOOOOOOO! Do you see what I see? You get prettied up and go off for 3 hours. Dang, you have your own existence aside from him, you get pretty for your own purposes and not just to wow him, man you couldn't have planned this better if you'd been a scriptwriter for Lifetime TV.

He found his ties in the dirty clothes (I think they fell off the rack and the kids picked them up with the dirty clothes), the garage is a mess, the yard doesn't look like it should, and the kids rooms were messy when he came home.

That's the cover story. Do you get the humor and irony in all this? He cheats on you, plans to leave and live with the OW, and you're disrespectful! To repeat: he's ticked off that you aren't a broken down weeping old frump, that you have enough self-respect to dress up nicely to go out. He lacks the insight to get this, or he would never have been so transparent.

Apparently, that's not the point. It's that we didn't respect it enough to begin with and he's tired of it. And he is tired of the kids not respecting him.

Childish beyond belief. He disrespects his children by cheating on their mother and planning to abandon them for a 22 year old hottie. You have to be around for your little kids to respect you and your belongings.

See above, it's about you going off like a person with a life and a spirit of your own. You could show him respect by putting on a black veil, shaving your head, and weeping and wailing the loss of the only man you ever loved or could love in your entire life and in all reincarnations to come.

You don't get it, do you? You got to him, beautifully. He may not even realize it, but he could lose you, may already have lost you, and he's scared! It's sheer genius on your part, sheer and instinctual.


I should have said, "You're right, let work on that." or something along those lines,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> No, no no. You shouldn't have. This respect thing is a red herring or something.

....but I took the bait and we ended up talking and eventually got into the problems I have had with the girls since he deployed last Sept. Our youngest D has had nightmares and anxiety issues since Oct. that have come and gone. I broke down and told him that he's right, they are out of control in some respects and I feel like a failure as a mother. I suggested that when he leaves on Sept. 15 that maybe the girls should go with him since I believe they need a dad in their lives right now. He did not have a good response to that!

[Shakes head with admiration and awe] You couldn't have scripted this better. Yes, I know you weren't scripting. The last thing your cake eating fence sitting husband wants right now is to hear that he would be a better parent at this point than you have been. Last thing he wants but first thing he needs.

First it was how can you be so selfish as to take them away from their school and friends and home. Then the real issue (in my opinion) came out. He's planning on living with OW and she has an apartment. I imagine the image of the love nest is shattered when you put two kids into the mix. Being a step mom at 22 is a little more intimidating in real life than it is when you're imagining it. Now, I don't know that I would actually have them go with him. But, I do know that I am and have been feeling that I am not enough for them right now. Maybe they do need to be with him for a while. The girls have always had a very close relationship with their dad and I honestly believe that many of the emotional and disciple problems are due to his absence. These are common problems in a deployment, but another year with him gone may just be too much. Like I said, I don't know where this will go, but his reaction says a lot to me.

two girls and a baby are a huge job for a single parent wich you have been for a long time. Of course you don't feel adequate to the job. And speaking of "job," you're also working outside the home? Stop being so self-critical. I only had one child, and never got caught up on things.

Later, he decided he wanted to talk again to make sure that I still understood that we aren't "working on things". (a change from our earlier conversation in the morning) He wants me to be sure and understand that he loves her, is leaving on Sept. 15th, and there is pretty much no hope for our marriage. I said that was not what I heard that morning so maybe we need to clarify what was going on. Another explosion followed. He yelled that I never listen and that he couldn't make things any more clear. So, I told him that my definition of "working on it" was going to MC, which he said he would do, and seeing what happens, which is exactly what he said. He doesn't think that is working on it and doesn't want to give me false hope. To me, even a glimmer of hope is something to work on and I feel I have that if I can keep him here for a while and get to MC. That calmed him down some and I think he understood where I was coming from. So I made the comment, I think a glimmer of hope is a lot better than no chance in hell, so I am going to be optimistic. His reply? Yeah, well the chance is barely over no chance in hell! I was done! That was just mean so I walked away and told him that if he wants to just be cruel, he can do it by himself because I was going to bed. I walked away and he followed to say he wasn't being cruel. He doesn't even see what he is doing.

I sat him down and said "You need to understand something here, honey. You do not have two women fighting over you right now. The man that you are right now is not a man I would accept in my life. At this time, you are a pathetic shell of the man you were and the man you can be. You are a pathetic shell of the father you were and the father you could be. OW can have you if this is all you can be anymore. But you know what, I believe you are and can be more. I have hope, a glimmer of hope, that somewhere within you is a man, a husband, and a father worth fighting for. That is why I'm here. That is why I am fighting. That is why I stand here and take the cruel and hurtful words you say. Not for who you are right now, because the kids and I deserve better than that, but for who you were and can be. Maybe that's gone. But me and our children have a right to fight for the man and father we had. So, this isn't all about you. It's about the three children we have and the family that is breaking. If there is a glimmer of hope that you are more than what I see now, then I will damn well hold on to the glimmer of hope that our marriage has a chance."

What did he probably hear? Blah, blah, blah. But I hope at some point some of those words sink in. If nothing else, it helped me to say it.

Whew. You are one strong woman. And articulate. And he's thinking of trading you in for a 22 year old trophy tramp? Keep standing up for yourself. Your children have a wonderful Mommy.