Thank you, thank you, thank you. Bellevue, your insight into some of his reactions was refreshing and eye opening. I think you're right. It's nice to know that what I thought was a huge mistake was really falling right into the PLAN.

We're going to MC in an hour and I can't wait to see what happens there and just what the evening will bring. I think the girls and I are going to make pumpkin bread (WH's favorite) and fill the house with the scent of home.

I am keeping everyone in my thoughts and prayers. Have a good afternoon and evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Welcome. Now, relax and enjoy the MC. Oh, if you can stand even more advice: Let the MC draw your H out. If this is the first session, prepare for the first several minutes to be treading water, and for fog babble from your H about how he's through with the marriage, and it's all your fault and has nothing to do with the OW, and how he can never trust you again because now the OW's parents know because of you, and here's the kicker:

As you are standing up at the end of your 50 minute hour, your H will let fly a "doorhanger"

Definition: A last minute whammy that is designed to destroy any progress or hope you earned in the 50 minute hour. Pay very close attention and be prepared to burn it into your brain for the NEXT session. But DO NOT DISCUSS it or mention it at the time he lets fly.

If you want to talk about this more after the appt, post here. We spent a fruitless 12 months in counseling, and my H was a master at the last minute doorhanger fling.

Be yourself. So far it's the best strategy you have!

You are doing great! He is worried about who you are really having lunch with. I would also see an attorney and find out your rights. He should not really have visitation with the OW shacking up...I don't think it will go there. This will be over within 3 mo.

He is reading from the WS handbook. Keep plan A even if he goes. The reality still has not hit. It drove my H nuts when a friend said NJ is great, she'll be remarried within two years. Your H is so deep in the fog he can't see his nose. Keep plan A, no LBs. Keep working on you and try to find out his ENs so that you can meet them...it is usually domestic support, sex, physical attractiveness,,you know, it's in the book. Keep meeting the ones he will let you. You are doing all that you can. I've been around a while and he is thinking but won't let on. It really is a fantasy. I have read so much in the past 4 years. The relationship with the OW has a less than 3% chance of surviving. She's 22-really!Like she wants this? If they live together this will really be over. Don't you worry about a thing! It won't last. If you do not have a promarriage MC, try talking to the Harleys. Hugs to you...it is going to be just fine-been there, done that. It is starting to crumble all around him.

By the way..they all find something wrong with how the house looks...really...check out the fly ladies!

You are doing great! He is worried about who you are really having lunch with. I would also see an attorney and find out your rights. He should not really have visitation with the OW shacking up...I don't think it will go there. This will be over within 3 mo.

He is reading from the WS handbook. Keep plan A even if he goes. The reality still has not hit. It drove my H nuts when a friend said NJ is great, she'll be remarried within two years. Your H is so deep in the fog he can't see his nose. Keep plan A, no LBs. Keep working on you and try to find out his ENs so that you can meet them...it is usually domestic support, sex, physical attractiveness,,you know, it's in the book. Keep meeting the ones he will let you. You are doing all that you can. I've been around a while and he is thinking but won't let on. It really is a fantasy. I have read so much in the past 4 years. The relationship with the OW has a less than 3% chance of surviving. She's 22-really!Like she wants this? If they live together this will really be over. Don't you worry about a thing! It won't last. If you do not have a promarriage MC, try talking to the Harleys. Hugs to you...it is going to be just fine-been there, done that. It is starting to crumble all around him.

By the way..they all find something wrong with how the house looks...really...check out the fly ladies!

You're doing fine. For the speed MB plan, you take the cake. Keep on doing what you are doing.

Good Morning! Are you getting tired of the updates yet? I enjoy writing them because I look forward to the day I can go back and read them to WH.

MC actually went great. WH feels comfortable with the guy we have so he does open up a bit. The MC has seen us once before, about a month ago, when WH came back for a one week leave from his deployment. So, he asked us to sum up where we are now and WH looked to me to do it. I went over everything he has said since he came home, everything I know, and the fact that WH says that this marriage is over and all he is willing to do is see what happens. I repeated everything he said about how he feels about OW and that he is still keeping in contact with her. While I was going over parts of it WH would look at me in a funny way and I wondered if something was occasionally getting through as to how ridiculous some of the things sounded when repeated to a third party. Probably not, but maybe. Afterwards, he looked at me with a surprised look on his face and said "You really were listening." HAH! That was priceless.
We also talked about his outbursts of anger which he blamed on my trying to push him into more than he is willing to give. The counselor asked for a specific instance and he just couldn't remember one off the top of his head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then he said he gets that angry and is cruel because he really believes that my hopes and expectations will be crushed at the end of this. He just wouldn't stop saying this so I stopped him and said, "Can I ask for a favor? Can you let ME be responsible for my hopes and expectations? I can handle them myself and I don't feel I need anyone else to control them for me. I'm going to let you in on something very personal. I 100% believe you WILL leave on Sept. 15th. I have a hope that you won't, but I fully expect you to do just that. So you won't be crushing anything, only fullfilling an expectation I have to begin with. The reason I didn't get upset and emotional when you returned and said you no longer want to work on things was because I EXPECTED it. When you sent some of your belongings to her, I EXPECTED it. When you called her from our house the last few days and thought I didn't know I never got mad or even confronted you because I EXPECTED it. So please don't be cruel or angry because of what you perceive to be my unrealistic expectations because at this time I do not have any illusions as to your intent, desire to be honest, or love for me." Well, he and the MC just kind of looked at me for a minute and that conversation was pretty much over because his reason to get so angry was pretty much taken away. That felt good!
When we left, we both felt pretty good about the session and he suggested we go to this little wine bar we used to go to. We had a glass of wine and some appetizers and really enjoyed the hour or so we spent there. We had agreed to not talk about divorce until after we come back from Disneyland on the 20th, so it was relaxing too. The only sticky point was my "leaning towards" the idea of the girls going back to Texas with him. He had been bringing that up just about every hour all day. He would say, I just don't understand how you can think it's a good idea! I would respond, "I know you don't, honey. We'll need to talk about it later." hee-hee. Well, we agreed to save that discussion for a MC session too.
So, after this nice day we go home and decide to watch a movie as a family. He says, I'm going to take the baby downstairs and play with him. Why don't you take a shower and the girls can play up here for a while. Hmmmm. Somethings not right. I glance over at the phone, and it's gone. So, I let him walk halfway there and push the page button. Guess what? He starts beeping. He hid the phone under his shirt and used playing with the baby as an excuse to go call OW. Pathetic and dumb. Who's going to go into the basement to play with the baby when everyone else is upstairs? Dork. I just looked at him and walked away to take my shower. He comes running after me, mad, and says "Here take the phone". I wouldn't and just said "I can call my dad later after I'm out of the shower. You need to make your call. I didn't realize you needed it when I was trying to find it." Okay, it was a lie. I knew he had it and just wanted to bust him. He throws the phone on the bed and stomps away. He did end up using the phone while I was in the shower and I didn't confront him about it, but he came to me and said he was calling her parents to apologize for the "harrassing" phone call they had received .... at 9:30 at night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I just told him that I didn't want to talk about it and walked away to get into the shower because honestly my feelings were hurt that we had such a nice day together and as soon as we got home he called her. He got mad. I listened. As he was going off about how he was stuck in the house all day with no break (I can't imagine how that would feel!) and was only calling her parents and feels like no matter what he does someone is upset or mad about it, blah blah blah, I decided to just stop. He felt the need to call her because something about our day touched him. He needed the reassurance of their "perfect" relationship. That's my story and view anyway and I'm going to run with it. So, if he calls her....fine. I'm not going to be hurt by it. Having a great day with me must put a dent in his armour. So, bring it on!
He ended up back in our room (he's been sleeping in the kids room) because the other bed hurts his neck. So that's a little baby step too. I didn't ask him in, he asked to come in. Nothing is happening but he's there.
That's the daily update. I'm off for the rest of the day to run errands with him. I had the kids go to daycare so we run them together. Wish me luck and the wisdom to confuse the hell out of him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>Dork.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG that's funny! I honestly don't think I can help you any more. You've got it nailed. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I sat him down and said "You need to understand something here, honey. You do not have two women fighting over you right now. The man that you are right now is not a man I would accept in my life. At this time, you are a pathetic shell of the man you were and the man you can be. You are a pathetic shell of the father you were and the father you could be. OW can have you if this is all you can be anymore. But you know what, I believe you are and can be more. I have hope, a glimmer of hope, that somewhere within you is a man, a husband, and a father worth fighting for. That is why I'm here. That is why I am fighting. That is why I stand here and take the cruel and hurtful words you say. Not for who you are right now, because the kids and I deserve better than that, but for who you were and can be. Maybe that's gone. But me and our children have a right to fight for the man and father we had. So, this isn't all about you. It's about the three children we have and the family that is breaking. If there is a glimmer of hope that you are more than what I see now, then I will damn well hold on to the glimmer of hope that our marriage has a chance."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this doesn't work out for you and you get divorced and I'm still single, will you marry me?

(Actually, I'm taken. I just wrote this for effect.)

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Man, and that was the best offer I've had in years!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dear Faith,

Magnificient!!!! Good job. I know his hurtful words were stabbing to your heart but I can see you got the MB armor on and it fits nicely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hm.... so much babble and hate spewing out of his mouth. What did the MC say after you made that memorable speech? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Bravo,
L.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Faith,

Your attitude is dynamite, and it just keeps BLOWING MY MIND.

Spectacular.

GC

Faithinme -

I've been following your story and I just want to let you know that I greatly admire how you're handling this whole situation. In fact, I copied the same paragraph that WAT mentioned because I'm hoping to "use some of your material" the next time I have a R talk or recovery talk w/ my H (hope you don't mind).

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm cheering for you. Please keep posting your updates - I'm learning SO much from your thread and I'm sure other people are as well.

C

Orchid - We all sat in silence for a minute and then MC looked at WH and asked what he thought about what I said. All WH said was "Okay, I guess you understand where I'm coming from." Nothing else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yea, he admitted to his fog antics. Big step here dearie!!!! Big step. Admission battles omission. Score one for Faith and -100 for the A!!!! YIPPEEEE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I look forward to reading your story everyday. Him suddenly "beeping" was priceless! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I must have been posting at the same time as a few of you. PLEASE if anything I say can help anybody....use it!!! I don't mind at all. It's the words of encouragement here that keep me focused and give me strength so whatever I can do to help anyone else is really an honor. Truly.
In fact, knowing I will be coming back here to update helps keep me on track. I'd hate to come back with nothing good to write <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm off now. Got to get on my happy face and see what today will bring while we're out together. I'll be back with an update. Good luck and a happy day to everyone here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think Faithinme should be the Marriage Builders poster child, do public relations, teach classes, and write a book. I am still impressed!

If this doesn't work out Faith, please know that there are millions of men out there who would love a wife who is as wise and caring. You are a rare and precious pearl. I don't think I've ever seen anyone that has embrased and executed Dr. Harley's principals to a tee.

Call her parents my foot. He's afraid to talk to them and should be. Don't worry about him talking to her. Can you imagine the comparison to a 22 year old? If he has half a brain (or rather thinking with the brain that's located above his shoulders), it will open his eyes and clear the fog.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by faithinme:
I stopped him and said, "Can I ask for a favor? Can you let ME be responsible for my hopes and expectations? I can handle them myself and I don't feel I need anyone else to control them for me. I'm going to let you in on something very personal. I 100% believe you WILL leave on Sept. 15th. I have a hope that you won't, but I fully expect you to do just that. So you won't be crushing anything, only fullfilling an expectation I have to begin with. The reason I didn't get upset and emotional when you returned and said you no longer want to work on things was because I EXPECTED it. When you sent some of your belongings to her, I EXPECTED it. When you called her from our house the last few days and thought I didn't know I never got mad or even confronted you because I EXPECTED it. So please don't be cruel or angry because of what you perceive to be my unrealistic expectations because at this time I do not have any illusions as to your intent, desire to be honest, or love for me."

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This speach goes into the MB hall of FAME...

and your H's phone antic goes into the MB hall of shame..... under his shirt! ~LOL~

DORK indeed!

Your H is TOAST with your plan ... he's TOAST.

Keep up the great work and make the updates frequently ... we're all rootin' for ya.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong> Good Morning! Are you getting tired of the updates yet? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> [/B]
No way. I've been running back to the 'puter all day to find out how MC went.

[QUOTE] MC actually went great. ....Afterwards, he looked at me with a surprised look on his face and said "You really were listening." HAH! That was priceless. [QUOTE] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Something he said you DIDN'T do - LISTEN!

We also talked about his outbursts of anger which he blamed on my trying to push him into more than he is willing to give. The counselor asked for a specific instance and he just couldn't remember one off the top of his head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Honey, you're the one in charge here. And they both recognize it.

The only sticky point was my "leaning towards" the idea of the girls going back to Texas with him. He had been bringing that up just about every hour all day. He would say, I just don't understand how you can think it's a good idea! I would respond, "I know you don't, honey. We'll need to talk about it later." hee-hee. Well, we agreed to save that discussion for a MC session too.

excellent. this is really going to eat at him.
**********

Hmmmm. Somethings not right. I glance over at the phone, and it's gone. So, I let him walk halfway there and push the page button. Guess what? He starts beeping. He hid the phone under his shirt and used playing with the baby as an excuse to go call OW.

I can't stand it. This is positively hysterical. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pathetic and dumb.

, but he came to me and said he was calling her parents to apologize for the "harrassing" phone call they had received .... at 9:30 at night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I just told him that I didn't want to talk about it and walked away to get into the shower because honestly my feelings were hurt that we had such a nice day together and as soon as we got home he called her. He got mad. I listened. ....., I decided to just stop.

wouldn't he love it if you offered to join him on the extension so that you could join in his apology to her parents about the harassing phone call. I mean, after all, it wasn't HIM who "harrassed" was it? I mean, it was you,the crazed, insane, unreasonable evil mother of his three children, who transgressed.

Wish me luck and the wisdom to confuse the hell out of him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hon, he's no match for you. (Visualize a greyhound hitched up to a beer wagon.) I'm just trying to fathom why you even WANT him. Oh, yeah, he is the father of your children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ August 11, 2004, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</small>

Faithinme:

I am also a military wife.

I have been reading your thread and I have to say that YOU ABSOLUTELY ROCK. YOu are doing what I did, handling this situation with as much grace as possible. And you are pulling things on him that he is totally not expecting: perfect 180s.

The bit about getting dressed up and going out to lunch had me floored with giggles. Please continue to do that while he is there. I love it when a WS realizes the BS can live a life without them in it.

I give you major props for the grace you are handling this with. Its fabulous reading your updates and I hope you keep them coming!!!

I do feel you should ask him to call her outside of your home because its extremely disrespectful to you and I worry that he will see this as it really being ok with you.

Um, anyone want to get faithinme's address and send her unsigned flowers?

ROFL

Ya'll crack me up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've just got a second but I had to come here to get a lift and read some posts. I just can't find anything to talk about with him! We've spent the last three hours together and I just look at him and can't find ANYTHING to say that isn't going to make me/him think of OW. It is frustrating!!!

We went to the store to pick up some baby gates for the house and it was a place where we had gone quite a few times to buy baby stuff and I just had to walk away because I got emotional. He followed me and I just looked at him and said "I need a few minutes without you with me." and walked away again. When I went back, we bought the gates and went to lunch and I couldn't talk to him by that point not because I was hurt but because I was mad. So when he asked me if I was going to talk with him today, I just said "Since I'm mad at you right now I'm not going to talk with you right now. I'll let you know when I'm not anymore." About 5 minutes later I said, "Okay. I'm done now. How about taking the kids to a movie tonight?" I just had to make myself realize and remember he is a moronic robot right now who is controlled by anything but his upper brain and normal self. Ever seen the X-Files when the black stuff would come into the peoples eyes? That's what I imagine when I look into his eyes. He's just an alien!

Okay. I feel better now. Thanks for all the kind words. I certainly don't always FEEL like I'm doing anything positive, but the day is only half over. There's still hope. I'm gonna go make some toast <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />