Thanks for the advice. That does make more sense.

ML - In HIS mind, he is working on our relationship and thinks that one of these days things may just click for him and he'll realize he's wrong and there is something here for him after all. Right now, he says he doesn't feel in love with me but he doesn't want to throw away the last 11 years and feels he should at least try for that and the kids.

Now, I think that is all a crock!

I believe he is marking time here.
I believe he is trying to ease his own guilt.
I believe he is convincing himself that by being in the same house, he is trying and is therefore exonerated from any fault in an A.
I believe he is totally out of his mind right now.

I also believe that is giving me a unique opportunity to try and reach him through PLAN A. I've made mistakes in it, but his being home has been better than his being in another state. Remember, he has been gone for 16 of the last 18 months and has COMPLETELY written our relationship in his own mind. I am trying to remind him of why he was happy when he was here before while not losing my mind.

Hi...

If I may interupt for just a second... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've read many references to Pep's "routine with the hair flip, thong dance, sex toys, and attack him.", and was wondering where I could find that thread? I sure would appreciate it. I'm looking to be educated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks
Isleepwithacat

So he has made up his mind to leave and is using these three weeks to ease his guilt or to set up an Apt in San Antonio. Now I am not emotionally involved here, but I would put my foot down on the trip to San Antonio.

I'd sit down with him and give him the I do not want to loose my love for you speach, I want to work on our marriage-but a marriage is between two people-not three. If you leave honey, your actions are speaking louder than words, so that is my limit.

Or-can you go with him? I almost think you should show up at the OW house with your kids to meet her and her parents. She can't imagine he has a family-she is in fantasy land. If she met you and the kids if she were a decent human she would get a huge wake up call. Can you send her a family photo? She is a kid and thinking of him as a single guy because she has not seen the family together. She cannot look at this as an adult because people really are not mature until they are 25,26. I really hurt for you. I am so angry that he is treating you like this. You have more class in your little finger than he will ever have and if he leaves, the man you end up with will be so lucky. You are young still, in your prime really. Do not dispair. It is better to be alone than in bad company. He is acting like a child and needs a firm parent to say-enough. He does NOT deserve you.

I think he wants his cake and to eat it too. I'd think I'd have to vote for plan b here-the only thing is that he was gone for so many months. This is tough, but he is being totally disrespectful to you and he has to give up the OW for this to work.

By the way-it isn't going to work with the 22 y/o-no way. She'll hurt him because she is not yet mature. Really-what 22 y/o wants all that baggage.

Oh-does she go to church? Can you write a letter to her church?

I'm with RAG on this, too.

On his thread, Bob Pure wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just realised that I am never going to get a single sensible word INTO her or OUT OF her while she's fogged..... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are in the same place. Trying to reason with cole slaw.

When words won't work, actions are all you have left, hence RAG's recommendation.

The only down side is the legal ramifications - without a binding separation agreement, you may not be able to keep him out of your house. Have you researched this in your locale?

WAT

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I'm with RAG too. But I think you will need to check with an attorney to see if you can keep him out of the house. Also get some child/spousal support going. If he goes to be with OW, make sure he is very poor.

I also would discuss this ahead of time. Tell him since you cannot stop him from going, time to get the financial matters settled.

I haven't replied to you before, but I have been following your story (I think there are more lurkers than repliers out there...)

IMVHO it is wise to warn him ahead of time of the consequences of his actions to visit the OW. Be very clear that HE is making the choice, not you. It is easy for the WS to get into a cycle of blaming the BS for the pain they are feeling during the A (and after). My FWH told me I was forcing him to obey my rules when I gave him the Plan B letter...I explained I had no control over the situation, he had COMPLETE control and could decide any way he wanted and I would have to live with the outcome.

Explain to your H that you are prepared to live with whatever decision he makes. I would give him the Plan B letter on his way out the door for his visit. What better to start his fantasy visit than with a good dollop of reality. Writing a very loving Plan B letter, and the WH wopn't be able to contain himself, he'll have to share it with the OW, and she'll wonder why it weighs down on him so much ("It's easy WH, just leave her...") And it will be on his mind the ENTIRE visit.

Let a Plan B encroach upon his "vacation".

I also like the idea of having the locks ready to install when he leaves...hey, if he decides not to go, then you can always take them back...

It sounds like he needs another dose of the OW to burst the fantasy bubble though, and a visit may be inevitable (and the best thing at this point).

It was after FWH moved out and continued contact with OW again that he realized she wasn't what he thought she was and was able to move to NC.

You are a strong lady, and I admire your words and actions! Keep up the good work!

I agree with all about the plan B, but I think it's time to go one step further....it's time to report her to her C.O. After all, how the heck are they going to make it when she's not making what she was, OR she gets sacked and has to look for a job in SAT? I've told you before, the pay scale in SAT is VERY low compared to the rest of the country!

- Kimmy

Good Morning, All! Thank you so much for the wonderful advice. I'm a gal that needs a plan. After having a disappointing event at work last night, I was feeling a little down and coupled with the issues at home, was having a little pity party for myself in my head. I hate those parties! So, I decided to liven things up a bit. Our family went to a baseball game last night and about 5 minutes into it, I decided to just let things go for the evening with the knowledge I would be doing some hard thinking once we got home.

We had a GREAT time! The kids had fun, WH and I were joking and laughing, AND we won! There was a nice ejection of the other teams coach too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyway, WH and I were passing the baby back and forth and just having fun.

When we got home, I got ready for bed ..... it was hot, Pep..... too hot for pj's..... darn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WH came into the bedroom, started to get into bed, pulled back the covers and hightailed it to the living room where he stayed on his computer for about an hour. Maybe I made him uncomfortable. Hmmm. I had fallen asleep before he came back and woke up to his snoring. I thought about waking him up, but we're going out tonight and I thought a day of visions of me dancing in his head might be a good idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Once I was awake and he was asleep I got up and thought about what I'm doing and where we're going. I thought about the advice posted here and I have my plan.

Between now and when we get back from Disneyland (we leave tomorrow morning and come back on the 26th) I'll be PLAN A'ing like no body's business. I've been very good about being sure to tell him how wonderful he is with the house and kids and yard, etc whenever I can (when we haven't been talking about boundary issues. I'm going for the gold in meeting his need to be needed, admired and for recreation time together as best as I can. I'm being as cute, sexy and witty as I can with him (wittiness is hard since he has lost his sense of humor). I am acknowledging my problems in the marriage and have let him know what I have done and am doing to change those patterns. Being together for the next 6 days will help I hope.

BUT I am also in the process of writing a PLAN B letter, which I will post here by the end of the day. I am going to purchase locks for the house today which will be on the kitchen table next Friday. I will once more, probably on the drive home, remind him that going to San Antonio would be the highest show of disrespect to me and the children and that is something that I will not live with. If he goes, he need not come back until and unless he is willing to completely NC OW. I will give him the letter as he gets on the shuttle for the airport. I will send her the OW copy by certified mail.

That is too far. Regardless of the fog he is in, I have to draw the line somewhere and that's a pretty darn good place to do it. If he stays, GREAT. We'll have the additional time to work on our marriage and hopefully defog and continue in PLAN A.

As for the financial situation, my lawyer has said that since WH filed the paperwork agreeing to pay $4000.00 per month as soon as he starts work, that is legally binding. It won't leave him much left over, but it was he that filled out the paperwork and offered that amount and filed it with the courthouse. OW will pretty much be supporting HIM in this case. In the meantime, his mother has offered to help in any way needed, financially and/or emotionally. Right now, I'm not overly worried about that aspect. A little, but not much.

Keeping him out of the house is as easy as keeping the doors locked. I don't believe he would go to the police to get back in. I could be wrong and if I am I will counterfile to keep him out of the house. It may or may not be effective, I'm not sure yet. My lawyer doesn't think it should be too much of a problem though.

As for telling the OW C.O. I am planning on doing it. I just need to find a way to make sure it doesn't come back on WH. His clearance is my financial support. Without it, he won't make NEAR as much money now or in the future. Her job is also dependant upon her clearance though and if she does face a reprimand for this, she could be seriously hurt professionally for many, many years to come. If I can't find a way to do it without getting WH in trouble too, I just have to wait until November when he is offically OUT of the military. Then, his clearance can not be affected by the affair. OW still has another year on active duty. I know what unit she is in and have the phone number to it. I just need to find out her chain of command. It may not hurt to put in a call to her commander once WH moves down there though and ask that it be dealt with for now with no disciplinary action. Then, wait and see what she does. Hmm.. I'll think on that.

I am trying to figure out how to tell him to prepare for his daughters to join him. Now, I don't know that I'm actually going to put them on a plane to him, but as far as he needs to know.... YEP.... he and 22 yr old girly girl are gonna be parents! Do I put it in PLAN B letter? Do I send it in a separate letter given at the same time? Do I have our third party person tell him?

Basically, my plan is, regardless of how I tell him, to say.... As we talked about before you left, your daughters need to be with you. They have been without you for over a year now and they need a father right now. I have purchased two tickets and they will be arriving in Houston on flight XXX on Sept. XXX at X:00. That is X (2 or 3) weeks from now which should provide you with enough time to be sure to arrange for their arrival. Blah blah and blah blah schools are within 5.1 and 4.6 miles, respectively. I have spoken with both principals and pastors and can recommend either one. Both schools have openings in the appropriate grades and are accepting new students. They are also aware that you may be calling to set up an interview and are aware of the circumstances of the girls transfer. I have all of the transfer materials ready. My lawyer has drawn up paperwork relating to visitation and long-term custody. He is sending via certified mail. Please make any changes you see are needed and fax it back as soon as possible. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact him at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

That's going off the cuff though. I may need to change it. I may not do it at all.

Anyway, thank you for the advice on PLAN B. I know I have a lot to consider in the other areas and really need to think about the kids going with him. Right now, I'm just going to continue with PLAN A, maybe try to get a SF out of this before he leaves, and be ready for anything.

fim

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

Oh... I gotta tell you a funny.....

This happened a while ago, funny how a while ago means a couple of days right now, but I remembered it for some odd reason.

WH and I were talking and somehow got onto the conversation of OW being a stepmom at 22. This is when she said she thought it would be "fun" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He says, "You need to realize that when I'm with her I don't even notice our age difference. Look at you and me though, I'm younger than you and we lasted ten years!"

(read below to see our ages)

I just wanted to ROTFL!

Faith,

I like your Plan A and Plan B. I think that they are both excellent. I actually feel that your marriage has a pretty good chance to recover. Your WH seems intelligent; I just believe that he is young and is acting immaturely. You both were very young when you got married and it seems like he's trying to prove to himself that he's still "got it", hence the relationship with OW/child. Should he actually go to SAT, I think your Plan B is awesome and it is definitely going to work in YOUR favor. I just hope that when the times comes, that he comes crawling back to you, you are actually going to want him back. Sometimes I'm not to sure about it... You sound like an incredible woman and I have a feeling that the guys are going to be lining up at your doorstep. Keep up the good attitude and especially your sense of humor - those are priceless and so unique to you.

Being a stepmom is gonna be a lot less fun that OW may think. The girls are gonna miss you, their Mom, terribly and they are going to take it out on your WH and stepmom OW. In a few years, they are going to be teens and that brings an entire set of challenges in itself. OW has just barely survived the teenage years herself. She is not going to be capable to handle two children. Being a stepmom is tough, really tough. If she thinks that the girls are going to welcome her with open arms, she is WRONG. They are going to be rebellious, sad, anxious... A 22-year-old cannot handle this kind of responsibility. The girls are also going to need their father and out of guilt, he is going to give them lots of attention. OW is going to grow resentful and she's going to start picking fights and pouting.

In addition, there are probably going to be financial problems since your WH agreed to pay you a substantial amount of money every month and we all know that finances can bring a lot of stress to a relationship.

Now, I would like to address your questions/issues regarding exposure to the CO as well as the security clearance situation. What type of clearance does your husband have; which one does OW have? Is it secret, top-secret, TS-SCI, does it involve a polygraph test, if so what type - lifestyle, general? Certain security clearances involve polygraph testing with lifestyle questions regarding drug use (past and present), infidelity, prostitutes, gambling etc. People with such high clearances are required to keep a spotless background. Getting into financial difficulties, bancruptcy etc. can also contribute to the loss of a security clearance.

In closing, I would like to tell you that I really think you are doing a good job. I know how painful this is for you, even though you are trying your hardest not to show, but when you mentioned your weightloss etc., I knew exactly what you are talking about. I'm a very private person myself, generally happy and in a good mood, and nobody hardly ever knew what was happening in my relationship. People just kept commenting about the "unnecessary" weightloss.

Hang' in there. I sense there are better times on the horizon for you and your family.

Stay strong!

Kati

Faith,
Please rethink that plan on sending the girls with him. Think about what that will do to them. I remember when Betty Broderick (remember she killed her xh and his new wife) sent her children to live with their father. She thought it would be too tough for him but instead he loved it. She used it to manipulate and it back fired. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not in any way comparing you to her but you just need to think about it from all angles. Do you really want this 22 year old immoral twit raising your girls? Can you imagine her taking them for piercings and tatoos? buying them alcohol? sporatic supervision? promoting relationships with boys before they're mature enough to handle it? taking them across the border to Mexico? She'll be their role model because you'll be so far away. Do you want that? I wouldn't. I wouldn't want the whole thing to back fire and end up losing your girls. Could you stand only seeing them at Christmas and 2 weeks in the summer? With them there and he discovers he has made a mistake, don't you think it would just be easier to start a new life there instead of coming home to his family. I don't know your girls or your relationship with them, but if I were in your shoes, I would not risk it.

Now about the trip to SAT. I agree, I would tell him, you leave, you're gone. Take your stuff now. You're not coming back. I wouldn't wait until the trip to the airport. I would make preparations ahead of time and tell him the day before he is to leave. And if he decides to stay, I would insist on not only NC but counselling. It's time to draw the line and go to a very, very dark Plan B.

Faith,

You are awesume!

Just one word. I agree with the others, as I wrote before, KEEP THE GIRLS . The $4,000 payments will be enough of a strain on their relationship. You could also give that information to her chain of commnand.

ISleepWithaCat,

Pep mentioned her routine earler on this thread. She wrote that that was she did to Mr. Pep when he was looking to leave. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.

One More:

Faith,

I just went to look at the new photos. Is that H of yours out of his head? Hmmm, now that I wrote that, I guess he is in the "fog."

You have a globewide cheering section rooting for you. We all wish you well.

RAG and jph,

Thank you for the replies. I really don't know if I would let the girls go down there at all. HOWEVER, he and the OW do not need to know that until the kids don't get off the plane in Houston. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WH and I ended up talking about the consequences of his choosing to leave for SA next weekend. He was talking about all of these things we would be doing when he got back and we pretty much ended up in a PLAN B conversation with me telling him how much I want to and will work on things until he steps on a plane to SA. Whether it's next week or next month I will be here until that happens. He blamed me for pushing him into a decision, I told him it is a choice and the only way I can salvage my love and respect for any hope of our relationship....on and on. I'll probably update fully later.

Should he get on that plane, I will be calling OW as soon as it takes off to let her know I am calling her chain of command as I said I would in our one and only conversation a month ago. I gave her the choice to step out of our marriage or have me tell. If he's living with her, that seems a pretty clear indication of what I'll be doing. I am also going to let her know that I had told WH that his daughters need him and need to go with him. I will tell her I am preparing the parenting plan and will have it to them a few weeks before the girls will be arriving. I'm sure this will come as a surprise to her and that she hasn't heard a thing about this conversation. It should make for a fun weekend for the two of them. Since I will be in PLAN B, he will really have A LOT of time to consider the consequences of said action.

Well, that's what I'm thinking right now anyway:) I'm still hoping he won't go, but am planning for it to happen. I think he needs to have his fantasy come crashing around him before he will wake up.

Well, I'm off to go dancing again:)

Have a wonderful evening!!

edited to add: I am fully plan A'ing it until he gets on that plane though. Admiration, recreation, attractiveness, mystery, fun, sleeping nude and all!

<small>[ August 20, 2004, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

Hi faithinme... I don't know if you'll see this before you leave for Disneyland, but I'm posting anyway.

Someone had mentioned that the ow/child had never seen your H with his family. I don't know about Disneyland, but I do know that at Disney World in Fla, there are places where there are computers that you can 'play' with, including taking a picture of you & your family, then emailing that picture to your friends/family/your home/ etc. It's self contained, with just a few clicks, and it's EASY to do. You can send to a lot of email addresses too. And if you do this, please remember to send to your home email address too.

I don't know how you would go about it, or if it's even a good thing to do, but I doubt that ow/child would like seeing that picture! In fact, she probably wouldn't like to see any pictures of your H with just his kids, at Disneyland. Disney is known as being such a happy place. I am sure your entire family will have a happy & fun time, and that will show in your pictures too.

Since your H will be away from the kids if he goes to SAT, maybe you could take a bunch of pictures of H & the kids *with* Disneyland characters. Then make sure he gets copies of the best ones to take with him, maybe even a framed one or two?! OW/child is young and I think she will be jealous of the pictures. Just a little more reality to add to the "lovenest". GAG!

Just a thought... maybe you could tweak it & use it.

I hope your trip will be a great one!

Isleepwithacat

Do not send the girls. It would hurt them more than anyone else. If you were the girls would you want to go with dad and his shack up. NO NO NO-do not do that to those kids. Bad idea. You need to protect them from his stupidity.

Everything else is perfect. Keep the kids or it will come back to bite you. Good fantasy, but don't send them.

Went dancing last night, had a great time.... a bit too much beer though. WH is still sleeping and I'm off to get coffee.

I want SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much to just tell him everything that will go down this weekend if he leaves and call OW-girl child. AACCKK! It's just about eating me alive with the desire to do just that. BUT I'm not. Instead I'm going off looking mighty cute to coffee and telling him I'll be back in 2 1/2 hours because I have an appointment. Let him wonder what appointment.

Like I said yesterday, I am probably not sending kids to SA. It would take my believing it is the BEST thing for them to do that. They are everything to me and the best of both of us. He just needs to think that I DO BELIEVE it is the best for them. So does she.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

"When we got home, I got ready for bed ..... it was hot, Pep..... too hot for pj's..... darn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WH came into the bedroom, started to get into bed, pulled back the covers and hightailed it to the living room where he stayed on his computer for about an hour. Maybe I made him uncomfortable. Hmmm."

Bwhaaaaaaa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> *snort*

Hey, at least he's sleeping in the same bed with you! I betcha OW-child thinks he's on the couch at night..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Here is one more idea (sorry WAT) .... if he goes to SAT ... pack a little "something" into his bag.... something personal .... like a thong! Put it in his CARRY ON ... so the airport security gets to enjoy it too....

This will make the Plan B letter smart ---> also get the girls to write their Daddy a "good-bye" letter, and put those in his bag .... just let them express themselves .... don't influence or edit.... let them speak for themselves.

I think the family photos from DisneyWorld are a fantastic idea. Send some to OW's family also, along with a copy of your Plan B letter ..... send one to HER ~and~ one TO HER PARENTS!!!!!!!


Pep

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>