Thank you stillheremaking it...

Trix you said something about you have a daughter my age that you are telling her to do things in a certain order..That is the right way to go..I don't see what it had to do with the topic at hand, but this is precisly one of the reasons why I have stayed with my babysfather for so long, because of comments like that. I wanted to do the right thing. I've been paying for my mistake believe me. I'm a good catholic girl, strict family. I am reaching my goals,am doing real good for 22 but of course nothing I do will ever be good enough now in my parents eyes because of not following the correct order..Sorry for changing the topic, you triggered something....

and now back to your regularly scheduled program.."Days in the life of Faithinme" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I feel like a grasshopper among giants (I am not an experienced MBer), but I am compelled to respectfully disagree with JPH regarding the appropriateness of Mr. FIM's trip to SAT to break-up with the OW.

I hope Mr. FIM is going to break-up with OW, but I see absolutely no reason to do it in person while he is spending a few nights with her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> If I remember correctly, the Harley's advise a straightforward, non-emotional NC letter, not a overnight visit with the OP! There is nothing "right" about breaking-up with the OW by spending the night; it's just perpetuating the wrong. I don't think it should matter how young or how old the OW is when this happens, or how many of his friends know about the A, or how much her family knows about the A - it was an A and it should be ended properly without causing any more pain to the BS. Going to SAT is not ending it properly and FIM is doing the right thing by going to Plan B.

Maybe I missed something or I'm just not getting it, but I think Mr. FIM should be home comforting his wife, not the OW - the OW is old enough to know right from wrong and has to face the consequences of her actions as well.

Back to FIM: FIM, you are an amazing person. You are a great example for many people on this board, and I'm sure you're also a great role model for your kids. Take care & God bless.

xangelx..didn't you decide to have this boy's baby after knowing him for one month? How well could you have known him? Who was this fair to...the child, the father or you? No one. It's just my point. When we're young (and believe it or not I was there too) we don't always make good decisions because we either we don't have the life experiences to guide us or we immaturily don't heed the guidance of our elders.

Do you believe that you made the best decision? Would you do it over again? Would you do this to your child if you knew then what you know now? Look who you have chosen to be the father of your child. And because of that poor decision, your and your child's life will be forever saddled with his irresponsibility and you've lost the respect of your parents. What example have you set for your daughter?

You see xangelx, our actions have a ripple effect that reach even further than our own lifetime. When we're young, we don't realize that. Did you think when you decided to have a child with this boy about how it would affect your daughter's life and her daughter's life and her daughter's life? Wouldn't you now advise someone your age to not "get things out of order?" See that's life experience.

Cuteishot
I wholeheartedly agree with you but FIM H's is not aware of MB policy's. He's still emotionally involved with the child but I believe it may have run it's course. I'm just hoping that I am right. The changes in the last few days have led me to believe that he's starting to wake up.

I agree that it is time for Plan B. FIM has done an excellent job. Maybe it's just that I can't believe he would give up such a wonderful woman and his family.

While I believe Plan B is excellent in preserving what love remains, I would hate for her to completely close the door. Given that I don't think that letting him right back in the home is a wise idea either. Maybe the optimist in me sees this working out as well as it has been executed.

JPH....you have a point there about "some life expereinces" I was 19 then, yes I did feel different. I made a mistake we all make them. I don't know what I was thinking...but my age doesnt have much to do with my opinion on Faithinme putting up with her WS going to OW, because other older woman here have that opinion too, so my age has nothing to do with it..I would definatly be upset if my daughter would do this...believe me it was almost 2 yrs ago, but these comments still make me feel bad, but there is nothing I can do about it but move forward, I take full responsibility for my actions but let he who has not sinned throw the first stone...

Thanks for all the responses, prayers and good wishes. This day has not been nearly as difficult as I thought it might, but then again, it's only 1 here on the west coast. I've been at work and as you can guess, this has been on my mind most of the morning. So, I'm going to update on the morning antics of my WH and give you the lowdown on where I'm at right now. Acknowledging the fact I may be a bit off my game right now, I'd appreciate any input. Even of the "You're an idiot to think that" kind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I dropped off the kids at daycare and decided to stop off at Starbucks for my morning fix before work. While there, I received 1 picture message on the phone from WH, 2 text messages and three phone calls. The picture was of him looking sad and forlorn with the message "Thinking of you". The text messages were of the "I miss you" and thinking of you variety. The calls were to say, "I called OW to tell her I'm late and she doubted I'd even come at all since I haven't been keeping in touch as much", "I can't stop thinking about you and am walking around remembering all the times I've been at this airport with you", and "Please understand that this trip isn't about seeing her. I have to be able to provide for our family if this works out the way I now believe it will." There was a lot more to each conversation, but that was the pretext for each one.

So. I've been thinking about things. I'm wondering if I'm going to send the letter to him while he's down there.

WAIT!!

There's a reason <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He believes that I am not willing to give him ANYTHING with this choice to leave. I've told him goodbye. I had told him in our last in depth conversation on how I felt about his leaving that I didn't think I could take him back even if he decides he wants to work it out. I had said that I don't think I could respect him for walking away a second time. Right now, the PLAN B letter is much more open than he believes me to be. That's partly why I was upset he left it. I wanted him to know there is a light home. It's one I have left on. All he has to do is walk towards it. We hadn't really talked about what the PLAN B was exactly. It had been about what I felt I could live with, during that conversation. The "Plan B talk" was centered around what I was feeling at the time rather than the path back home. He knew about no contact. He offered the idea of limited contact with OW. I hadn't told him to expect a letter outlining the whole thing (real plan b). He believes that he can convince me to open it more than that and has stated that he is willing to be the one to convince me to believe in the possibilities the same as I did for him.

Right now he is telling me he understands I feel that way (about no contact and the difficulty of me taking him back even if he wants to work on things). He is using my lecture to my own kids against me. They love to use the words never and always. I told them the other day that those are two of the most overused words in the English language because very few things are always or never. He's saying the same thing. He said he is almost positive that this is where he wants to come back to and thinks he'll be letting me know he made a mistake. Now, I don't know that will happen. But I have a strong sense that it will. If it doesn't right after he comes home, it will soon thereafter. JMHO. I'm wondering if the PLAN B letter will be better, at this point, when he comes home.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking his calls, responding to text messages or emails, or communicating in any way other than through a friend when neccesary about the kids this week... and beyond. We DID discuss that in the last 48 hours. He understands that and has said that regardless of my communication with him, he plans on leaving VM and text messages to let me know what is going on with him.

That's not just an aspect of the PLAN B, but of what I have made clear to him, outside of any plan, that I need to get through just this week. At this point, for me to work on things, I would need a plan b to include a NC letter signed by both of us and sent certified mail overnight to OW. I would need him to pull the divorce papers and commit to 100% effort for this marriage.

That wasn't in the PLAN B plan. NC was. Effort was. Pulling the divorce papers wasn't. If I send the PLAN B letter now, I think I lose the advantage of seeing what his intent is WITHOUT the letter. Is that too manipulative? Is he willing to come back and try to convince me to try? A BIG part of me wants to know that.

The letter is still sealed. He didn't even try to open it. After seeing what his intent is after returning, I can have our intermediary give it to him with an additional little note that this is what I wanted to say before you left. Please read the letter that you left behind.

Is this a completely stupid plan? I'm not doing anything without a night to think it over. I'm tired due to less than 3 hours sleep. Emotional for obvious reasons. There's a possibility that I'm just not looking at this right. Although I'm not officially in PLAN B, it would be like a PLAN FAITHINME, a kind of customized PLAN B for the week since he left the letter.

There was a question as to why I would let him go to SA in the first place. Well, as someone here said, I can't control him but I can control my reactions to him and what he does. The fact of the matter is I may have a higher threshold for his thoughtless, erratic, affair minded behaviour than someone else would of their spouse. Each person, relationship and situation is different. Do I like him going? NO. Am I condoning it? NO. Was he going regardless of that? OBVIOUSLY. Am I willing to give up on my marriage yet? NO. So, as I see it, I can find a way to maintain control of my ability to want to continue to work on my relationship or I can freak out, beg, cry and ultimately sign the divorce papers as an agreeable party because he went anyway.

Who loses? ME. MY KIDS. MY WH. and this may be taking it a bit far, but I believe our friends, community and society as a whole tends to lose with most dissolved marriages as we devalue marriage and the true work that it takes to make till death do us part a reality. Each day is a struggle when dealing with infidelity and the pain of the choices made while involved in it. The pain of his choice is not only in that he is going to SA but in that he is not yet ready to commit to fully restoring our marriage and this is proof of that. What do I gain by "not allowing" him to go? That is a choice he has to make. I can't make it for him any more than I can make him ready to give up OW. MY threshold for walking away has not yet been met. Maybe it will be tomorrow. I doubt it. But it is possible. My decision to go to a PLAN B, whether it be by overnighting the letter tomorrow morning or waiting for him to get back, is because I'm not done. I'm willing to wait for the light to diffuse the fog. I said to him when we married, till death do us part. Not, till San Antonio do you go, shall we part. Not, until you're unfaithful do us part. The time may come for me to walk away for those reasons, but it's not now. I'm not ready for that yet. So, my allowing him to go has nothing to do with it. My desire to find the man lurking within the alien that has overtaken my husbands body and rekindle a good marriage into a wondrous marriage has everything to do with it.

xangelx
Of course, we all make mistakes. The only time those mistakes are a waste is when we don't learn from them and share what we've learned. Who was throwing the stones?

Now...how was she to stop him from going? Handcuffs, tied him to a chair, called the airline and cancelled the flight? Would any of those options made him desire to be the husband and father he should be?

If she had Plan B'd him as soon as she found out he was going, how would she then have shown him that she wanted to work on the marriage? How would he have been reminded of the wonderful wife and children he was leaving behind? His only focus at that point was going on to SAT. FIM reminded him with her excellent Plan A of his life with his family. He had been gone for a very long time and the relationship with the ow/child clouded his mind.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: jph ]</small>

Taking an MB fork in the road right now....

I think a 3-way phone call is on order.

Imagine this:

You, H, and OW all having an honest and open conversation together.

The fastest way to find out what is real, is for everyone to be in on the same conversation.

Call OW.

Ask her to have your H call you when he gets there. Tell OW you would like her to listen in on the conversation as well. Tell her it seems you are both getting mixed messages from H, and might as well see what is real and what is not.

I would call her. Everyone gets all his/her cards out on the table all together.

Your H is planning on keeping his love messages to his wife secretly hidden from the love messages he sends to OW.

I just hate the secrecy of all this.

Why not everyone show their hand and see who holds the winning cards?

This is NOT MB ... it is very much PB (Pepperband)

Pep

Jph...we could do this all day going back and forth here..so I'll end it now. You think her decision was right, I do not...Like I said, we are all entitled to our opinions...I guess if Faithinme thinks she can handle it then more power to her...

Faith...go with your gut. I like the plan. But then again, it seems as if most everyone disagrees with me. This is your life and you have to live with what you do. You know the details that we don't. Try to get some rest and know that you are in my prayers...

Faithinme.

Since I am new here, please consider anything I write as suspect.
Having said that;

The second he got on the airplane, he broke your trust.

He already knew what he should do.

He knew what he was leaving.

The bottom line - he did it anyway.

If you waffle, he steps over another line.

Faithinme, it is YOUR life, you have to be the one to decide. I am praying for you.

Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>I think a 3-way phone call is on order.

Imagine this:

You, H, and OW all having an honest and open conversation together.

The fastest way to find out what is real, is for everyone to be in on the same conversation.

Call OW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no.

I couldn't disagree more, Pep. Yes, it worked for you - in person. I don't think this is the right action here.

Faith - this is not till death do us part vs till San Antonio do us part. It's YOUR boundaries.

Plan B is all about boundaries. He made the decision to leave - to separate. It's YOUR decision to STAY separated. Your protection, his consequences.

I believe the best course is to sit tight, good and dark, and see what he does. Even without reading your letter, he knows what you require.

Stay dark, dark, dark. Make him worry.

When he comes home - a given - hear him out and see what he says. If he's willing to make a break with OW and send a NC letter, perhaps your Plan B letter can stay sealed. Then see what he does. If he comes home and is waffling - ask him to leave and give him the letter - read it or not. In either case, report OW to her CO.

JMHO.

WAT

I agree 100% with WAT...

Everyone,

Don't forget Faith sent a copy of PBL to OW. H will "hear" about it once he meets w/her.

THEN we'll really see which side of the fence he's going to fall on.......

I agree w/WAT's advice, tho. Faith needs to go dark, dark, dark now. H knows what's up. Now the ball really IS in his court.

Rootin' for ya, gal.

For the time being, meaning the next 12 hours or until I change my mind, I'm going to wait this out in the dark. He does know what he's doing. He's a big boy with or without the letter. I would have preferred to have him read it, but that was his choice to leave it behind.

Just got a text message from him that says, "Hi, (petname - not willing to give that one up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) I got here ok will call ltr.

Hmmmm. What part of won't anwer your calls does he not get? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

BTW: I haven't sent OW her letter yet. Had planned to do it today, but I realized WH didn't take his before I left the house and decided to wait and decide what to do.

(edited to add BTW info)

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: faithinme ]</small>

That is how I understood it too...that she sent the PBL to OW...or Faith, were you going to send it to her after he left on the plane?

Have you sent anything to her or the C.O. yet?

Okay, understood.

He's going to call because he thinks (hopes) you were bluffing.

Her CO needs to be informed...now.

Originally posted by worthatry:

I couldn't disagree more, Pep.

Whaaaaaaa <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> aaaaaaaaaaa

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I know, I said it was PB advice and NOT MB advice ....

I also disagree with myself!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> BUT...

This is me ... direct, just show me yours and I'll show you mine...

No, wait... that sounds wrong..... ummmmmmm

I think I need a hug.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi FiM,

Decisions decisions ....

My take? I think you should stick to DARK-ville. And as far as the letter, I think you should send it now, Fedex it to him.

I just feel you gave him the conditions of his departure, and he KNEW what the consequences would be. I feel if you don't follow thru he'll see that as his chance to continue to fence sit.

He's addicted, FiM. Remember? That's what Harley tells us an affair is, it's an addiction.

Seeing OW will most likely place him right back into the addiction, and with no conseqences [Plan B letter to read].

What does he have to lose by doing more fence sitting? Why shouldn't he stay addicted. An addict doesn't know they are addicted, nor do they think it's bad for them most times. They will do whatever it takes to get their fix.

He knew your conditions and he left anyway, AND he didn't read the letter, so he could feel there won't be any real consequences [fog induced].

Even tho he's gotten a "unfogged glimpse" of what he may lose, once he takes a drink ... the fog may ROLL RIGHT BACK IN. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

But whatever you decide, you know your husband best, just like Lostva. We're here for you no matter what happens.

You're a true inspiration.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>