Keep with your plan b for now. I know you are hurting like crazy and just dying to find out.

Let me tell you, she's crying her eyes out begging him to stay, saying she'll just be a little thing on the side, that she'll move there. She'll tell him what a nice life they'll have, that they are soulmates-but he'll be thinking I have all that already, I have my kids and my great wife. I don't want my wife to be with someone else.

Listen to those who have done it, but do what you must. I agree that it has to slow cook. They have to see enough of each other so that he sees she's not it and you need to be lights out so he has no clue what you are up to.

Remember if you love someone set them free. You love him enough to be tough, you have to, for the kids. Much love to you-it is going to be OK.

In the end she isn't going to want the baggage in either case. She's too young to know.

He must have gone thru hell over there and he went a little insane. The guy you knew is in there. You need to give him time to find himself and face his demons. He knows what he has done and who he has hurt. Selfish.

Goodmorning-just want to wish you a good day. Hope all goes your way, I wouldn't be surprised if you H is running home at this moment or making plans to. Reality should be creaping in. He's looking over at OW saying what was I thinking!

We're here for you no matter what you are doing, every situation is different and only you know what you need to do. Goodmorning Faith.

I know you are hopeful after hearing from your intermediary, but your questions are jumping the gun right now... Although your intermediary made great sense and really gave WH a dose of reality, if you hear his words, he is still waffling.

Wait for him. He will receive the Plan B letter when he comes home and will have spelled out what he needs to do to come home. Let him make the first move. He was able to move towards OW, he is a grown man, he can make the first move towards you.

Nothing like living on their own for a while for a WS to see what they would be giving up...not only half their stuff, but their nuclear family. Would he be happy with visitations with the kids?

Okay. Thank you to everyone for your advice. I finally read everything!

To update... He is not coming home until Saturday. There are no flights available Thursday or Friday due to the holiday weekend.

So, he is coming back on Saturday and is still waffling on the no contact. Told x that he just doesn't think he can do it because, after all, he does care about this person and doesn't know for sure that things can work with us. He tried this line.... I couldn't go without talking to faithinme for a month either. Dork. He also thinks a month would be enough time to figure out if it's going to work or not. Hmmmmm. That timing coincides pretty nicely to his original departure date. Yeah. He's completetly back in the fog and has regressed more than I had hoped, but as much as I had expected.

As to the regression, he told x to let me know that while he isn't exactly at the place he was Monday concerning us that he's sure I am assuming that things are worse than they are and that she should reassure me that he is coming home on Saturday and that he still has some hope for our marriage. FENCE SITTING and trying to pad both sides still.

X also got the impression OW is really pressuring him.

So, where am I at today? I'm done with listening to what he has to say to anyone. I don't need to hear it. If he can give me a NC agreement, we can talk and I'll listen.

The kids have been calling him A LOT!! I let them use the cell phone whenever they want to call him and they are doing it WAY more than I thought. It looks like they called him about 20 times yesterday - AFTER we got home at 3. I think they're using it every time I leave them alone for two minutes. Some of those were text messages and phone pictures.

At first, I thought, how funny. OW must be getting annoyed at having calls from her boyfriends kids all night while they are trying to be together. The last call they placed was at 8:40, our time, 10:40 where they are.

I'm wondering though if I should just have them not contact him until Saturday. They aren't upset and emotional anymore when they talk to him and when I asked yesterday afternoon why they had been calling dad so much earlier they said they just would call to say hi or I miss you. A lot of it may be that they just like to play with the phone since I gave them permission to use it to call him when they want to.

There may be some value in having them not contact him though. OW may be irritated, or she might be playing the oh, how sweet that they call you game. It may be giving him a false impression as to how he'll be communicating with them if he does leave.

I don't know what to do about them calling him right now.

This morning, I had a bit of an experience. I woke up in bed, by myself and realized that for the first time in a long time, I fell asleep and slept all night with no tranq. It also occured to me that while I would prefer to wake up with him, I didn't. And I'm okay. For a moment I thought, no drama.

So anyway, I am not talking with x about what she talks about with WH. It just sets me into a tailspin. I can't help but think what this visit is doing to the progress we had made, but in all honesty, I can't do anything about it. He chose to leave. He knew what he was doing. I just have to trust that what we did accomplish is twirling around somewhere in that head of his and when it's not there and OW's not there, he can see where he needs to be.

I've got work to do that I let myself get behind on during the time he was here so I can keep busy. The kids need me to be the strong mom and the fun mom. I'm planning on just getting to work and having a good day with them afterwards. Can't do more than that right now anyway.

Why haven't you exposed this to OW's CO yet?

IMHO, this should have been done while he was there.

FiM,

Letting the affair fizzle out on it's own is THE only way, as I see it now. Once that happens, your H will only remember your Plan A and that it's safe to return. And once he has your Plan B letter, he'll have that as a roadmap to get his family back and rebuild his marriage

Plan B time is for YOU. What's YOUR Plan B plans?

Jo

Yes I agree and have strongly all along that her CO needs to be informed but FIM you may want to wait until Tuesday to do that. Let him get home and the holiday over and let you know what hit the fan there in San Antonio. I'd send an e-mail and forward the e-mails between them first thing on Tuesday! Don't give him a reason to pity her while still there. It'll be the icing on the cake.

Their time there has been interrupted by calls from his girls. Makes me giggle just thinking about it. Hey, they can't even finish a conversation without the phone ringing... I'm sure it's on her last nerve and she's considering that these children may soon live in her world. Wouldn't it be fun to send a picture of each Barbie in each outfit!

Kids get on my daughter's nerves (freshman in college) more than anything. Send them to boarding school she'll say. This ow/child is an MP and accustomed to orders being followed. It's just not a pretty picture...

Keep up the good work and I'm glad to hear that you're not getting any more information on X and WH's conversations. At this point, it's just too painful and not productive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong> Question:

He can't get a flight out on Thursday or Friday due to the Labor Day weekend - I was the one who checked.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If push comes to shove, he only takes 1 seat.....there are stand by options and he can also drive to another city. Takes effort on his part and would score him a lot of love bank points in your bank.

IMHO, this flight thing needs t/b worked on harder....by him.

As for the other cr@p, I think you are handling it quite well for now. Work on the exposure to the CO.

take care,

L.

And truly......he could find a car to rent and high tail it home if inspired enough to do so (car rentals located away from airports will have some vehicles available)

He is a smart guy and can drive a car....right?!

Got a text message that read, "No contact okay. I'll do it." I read it and he called a few minutes later and I took the call.

He said that he wants to try to work on things in the marriage and if that requires NC once he returns, he will agree to it. He's not enthusiastic about it and is not sure he won't still want the divorce but he wants to at least continue to try for another month and see where things are at.

He said that his feelings for OW haven't changed at all but that the scale is balanced more heavily here because of me and the kids so he wants to try and at least go out fighting. He's still coming home Saturday though although he says he has been and will continue to call the airline to see if a seat becomes available that he can fly on. I doubt it as he's flying on air miles instead of a paid ticket. In fact, I doubt he's trying too hard to change it to begin with.

I asked him what he's going to do to prove to me he isn't contacting OW and he said he has been thinking about that since last night and isn't sure yet but he'll think of something.

I have a feeling this turn of events is due to a few things. 1 - he realizes that the kids are having a hard time. Our oldest D called him this morning and it sounds like she read him the riot act. Told him to stop putting his job first (he told them he left for the interview), asked if he has a girlfriend (he lied), and told him that she thinks he is the only one who wants a divorce because everyone but daddy cries. She said she told him a lot more than that but that's what I remember off the top of my head. The kids calling all the time would also be an indicator that they need him I think. 2 - he may say he feels the same and is love with her, but I think having been home for a while is putting a dent in that A armour. 3 - He thinks he can come home and hide contact from me if he wants to communicate with her.

So, I'm going to let him come home to work on things as long as there is no contact. I'm going to ask that we write the NC letter together so all three of us are on the same page. I will send it. If he breaks NC, he needs to have a place to stay.

I honestly was at the point that I didn't believe he would agree to NC. I was pretty much preparing myself for that.

Someone asked what my PLAN B plans for myself were. I need to get back on track with my work. I love what I do and have neglected this part of my life too long. I have projects around the house I need to get done. I am going to finish one of the rooms in the basement and learn to take care of those things he has always done. I still plan on doing those. I don't want to give up working on ME because we're working on us. This may or may not work out. I have a lot of hope that it will, but he may leave after a month. We'll have to see. I want to be a better person either way. New skills, a better knowledge of who faithinme is, and a willingness to look at my own faults are going to help me whether it's to be a better W to my H or to be a better mom to my kids or a better person just for me. I win either way.

I have chosen, right now, to still not tell her CO until my H is out of the military. I have to look at the very real possibility that he would lose his clearance if he is pulled into this. I would LOVE to see them both squirm under the scrutiny of their CO's. Trust me on this. But I am concerned about his ability to continue to provide for us. I worry that if everything is brought out before his exit date from the military (which is coming up) that he may see dire consequences.

They are his consequences from his choices. But it is the kids and me that will suffer from that also. I don't want that. And to be honest, I'm not sure it would cause her to step out of the relationship. I don't think it would cause him to either. She's so "in love" and looking to him as the end all be all of men who is willing to leave his wife and kids to be with her, that I think she may just use it as another "us against the world" fantasy. I could be wrong, but when I spoke with her mom, she conveyed to me that OW is not happy with the military anyway and can't wait to get out in another year. Is she bright enough right now to see through the romance she is building around the two of them fighting to be together and actually see the far reaching results of being with him and being reprimanded in the military. Maybe she is. But she doesn't seem to be. I'm sure she sees him as taking care of her for the rest of her life. I know at 22 I couldn't see past the end of my nose to actually look at many of the consequences of my choices. And I had a husband and child at that point. She's still single, comes from a little itty bitty town of 150 people and has been in the military since she turned 18. She thinks being a step mom will be fun because she enjoys having nieces and nephews. He's her knight come to sweep her off her feet. He is 30, charming, handsome, speaks four languages, has traveled the world and is good at what he does. I imagine that to her there is no other man alive to compare. She's got nothing to compare him to!! And he's told her how in love he is and how horrible it is at home and how he needs her to be happy. What a high to be needed so much by the man she thinks him to be. She's about as foggy as he is when it comes to their relationship. I'm reluctant to put his income possibilities into jeopardy for something I'm not sure will cause her to rethink her situation.

I'm all for doing it once it won't affect me. Then if she doesn't care what happens to her fine. I've done what I can and hopefully she gets the book thrown at her. If it scares her off, great. But if not, I haven't put our support in jeopardy. That's my two cents anyway on that. It could change though, who knows.

So right now, I'm not sure whether to feel I've moved forward or not. I'm glad he contacted me with the willingness to go with no contact (our middle person is out of town on business and unreachable in meetings today). I'm not happy he's not coming until Saturday. I'm leary about his willingness to stay NC for long and his true commitment to staying together. But I feel we have a better chance together than apart. I just don't know exactly where I'm standing right now and feel more unsure than ever about which way to turn.

I feel out of control right now with no sense of direction. Thank goodness it's Thursday and I have until Saturday until I see him..... if he's still willing to accept NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>I feel out of control right now with no sense of direction.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe you're in the driver's seat.

I have no serious disagreements with your strategies. Your ace in the hole is your children. Give them free rein with that phone!!

But he's not sure of the NC, I believe. Hopefully this isn't a ruse to just say he tried.

WAT

"Phone home"..... comes to mind.

Let the girls call ~anytime~ .... I agree with WATTAGE

Watching and waiting is difficult. So, don't do that, have fun instead.

Meeee-bee worms will crawl out of Dork's ears coz he's got so much "fertilizer" in his head!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JUST KIDDING................. Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Meeee-bee worms will crawl out of Dork's ears coz he's got so much "fertilizer" in his head!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep - do you remember MB poster mbtrk? He was a male BS aka "Mike" from Maine, I believe. He told us about Moose Brain Worms - remember? For a while the accronym MBW was well recognized on the forum. MBWs are real parasites - according to Mike - that take over the brains of mooses (meeses? moosi?) and make them do crazy things. The obvious parallel was to the crazy things WSs do.

WAT

FiM,

I think you and WH need to get a few things clarified through your intermediary before you back off of Plan B.

First and foremost: what is NC?

I am very uncomfortable with him thinking that NC means NC for "just another month." I am not sure with that mindset that he will successfully pull it off, not with OW drawing him like a siren, texting him, emailing him and calling him (and she will, without a strongly worded NC letter).

And I just can't see him being willing to send a NC letter that says, "it is over." Period. And that is the way it has to be. He can't send a NC letter that says, "I'm going to try to preserve my marriage. For a month. If it doesn't work, I'll be back." Uh-uh. See the problem?

I think he is still manipulating you (not meanly, perhaps even not knowingly, but he is still trying to do this on his terms). He is trying to give you a semblance of what you want (NC) without really giving you the true NC that is needed to save your marriage.

I know you believe that having him in the home is the best strategy. You've done well with Plan A. I just have this awful vision of him returning, you catching him taking a call from her (and this is highly likely to happen under this scheme of "NC for a month", trust me) and you booting him out at that point.

I think then he'll just say, "well, I tried. I just wasn't able to put OW out of my life. Must mean she's the one."

He has to agree it is OVER with her, no matter what your future together might hold. He needs to let her go and accept that he will never be with her again. He needs to go through the withdrawal that will surely happen.

Unless he can do that, I think it is cake-eating masquerading as quasi-NC.

Don't put yourself through that. He's either in it to save his marriage 100% or he's not in it at all.

~ Snow

I talked with the girls and they were calling him every other minute it seems! They've called him 2 times, text messaged 2 times and send him 4 pictures in the last hour alone. I'm just letting them do whatever they want when it comes to that.

WAT - you're right he is not a real willing participant to the NC. He knows he needs to agree to it to come home and so will do it (agree). I expect that he will probably break that fairly early and we'll have a lesson in moving out quickly.

Yeah...

I'm agreeing with snowbelle here. I'm torn because he is swayed by your presence...but then he's swayed by her also. I'd be very clear that No Contact does not mean for a month while he kicks this marriage thing around...and while we are at it..let's be real clear about what No Contact does mean. It's the "for a month" that got me. Made all my flags launch, so to speak. Also that he isn't sure about the marriage...sounds hedgey to me. Who really is sure? I certainly was not by any means..but I was sure that I was committed to it's recovery if recovery could happen. I hate to say it doesn't sound like he is there yet. Hmmmmm. And humph. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Snowbelle - I just read your post after posting myself.

Your points are very good. I need to think about this as I had not looked at it from that standpoint.

He will not agree to completely break up with her. Of that I have NO doubt. But you are right about defining the NC. What you say makes complete sense.

I'm off to clean a kitchen floor and think on this.

Thank you for your insight and wisdom.

Maybe he should be cell phone free to help him keep NC too?!

You're wise understanding he's hedging his bets re: NC.

You understand all this WAY more than he does. Take some comfort that we've seen it all before and he's following the script - but he doean't know this and he doesn't know how much YOU know. Dork. He thinks he's "special" and his situation is "special." Dork.

Stay smart and confident.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong> I'm off to clean a kitchen floor and think on this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cleaning is excellent therapy. You can put your elbow into it and raise up those friendly endorphins to keep your mood even while your mind is contemplating other, difficult, things.

I'll lay down $5 that FiM has the cleanest floor in the state of Washington tonight! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]</small>