Cleaning the floor hasn't helped so I'm going out to dinner with my kids.

They've been busy calling daddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I keep going back and forth.

There's no way he'll break up with her right now. So, knowing that what do I do? Here's how my thought process goes:

I believe being with me and the kids can make him see what he has here.

I think he'll probably break the quasi-NC agreement we have right now at some point.

We made HUGE progress in the last 4 days he was here when he finally really started to open up.

If I now tell him "I know you agreed to not contact her and you insist you'll stick to, but I need you to truly break up with her now instead" he's going to look at it as trying to push the envelope little by little.

I deserve to push the envelope. He needs to try here too instead of living in the middle.

I'm afraid now that PLAN A was too short. Did those three weeks really give enough time to make a lasting impression.

I felt I had no choice but to do a PLAN B with him going to SA. Of course it was the right thing.

Is it really that I'm just too scared to put him out on his own and see the consequences?

Maybe I'm right to be scared of that.

Should I let him come home under the NC agreement we've come up with and then reevaluate it in a few weeks?

Is that just not respecting myself?

The power of being with the kids and me is what will bring him further along the path to agree to true NC. Right now he's still too foggy to see clearly.

That's his problem if he loses us. He'll just have to live with that.

Coming home from a deployment takes adjustment even under the best of circumstances, let alone with this between us. Maybe I should go with the NC as he has already agreed to and see what happens.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I hate this. I really do. I'm a gal that works better with a plan of action. I can't get one right now. I see both sides of this and am SO unsure of where to go. I'm second guessing every thought I have and wondering if either decision is due to fear and weakness.

This sucks. BIG TIME.

FIM...

I'm going to extend some faith in you as well..

I think that whatever you decide to do now..you will do it well, to the best of your ability. I am also torn..was plan a too short? Perhaps..

Will this quasi-NC he has in mind almost certainly fail? Almost certainly, we both know it.

Is he still living in the middle? Yes, I'd say that he is.

Did spending time with you and the girls break his resolve a bit? Yes, and here is the caution though...only a bit. He still sought her, with you in his back pocket.

If you were fully aware of Plan B in all of it's glory when you implemented it..I'd stick with it if I were you. His coming home now will not be to work on his marriage..it will be to sit on the fence some more. Do I want this..don't I...

I'd let him decide what he wants..what he is willing to commit to as much as it takes for as long as it takes and not settle for the crumbs he is currently offerring. I think you and your marriage and your family deserve no less. He does not need to be enticed further..this is my opinion of course. I know that the circumstances were not ideal for you..but you know I don't think they ever are. I think that's why MB deals in principles...very few of us are able to bring the world to a halt while we deal with our issues. Plan B is to break the A if it can be broken...looks like you maybe cracked it...why would you back off from keeping the pressure on when it is obviously working? Smash it beyond repair is my advice..so it can never resurface. Until and unless he is fully committed to reconcile with you..fully withdrawing his heart from OW you have nothing. No foundation and more pain.

Now about that fear thing. I think I know what you fear..that rejection of his gracious offer will result in him investing in the affair instead. Yes, I'd say it might..but until he invests there and rejects it..or just irrevocably rejects it..it will always be there. Any time he is vulnerable..there it will be a bright and shiny promise in the desert. Not a good plan, says I. I digress though...this is all my humble and inexperienced opinion. I could be waaaaay off base here. Do what you think you can live with...and be aware..your H is a master manipulator..get a plan and be very clear about it in your mind..because he brings with him all the fog of his current citizenship. Good luck--Noodle

Thank you for your thoughts Noodle. I'm trying to work this all out in my head still. I have to think with my head right now becuase my heart just can't be trusted..... that whole instinct thing.

I'm still not sure what to do. I reread most of SSA last night and went to bed about 10. I've prayed for direction. It's 3:30 in the morning now and I've just been tossing and turning so I decided to get up. I've reread this entire thread.

Still at a loss. Still no plan. I'm sitting on the fence here myself.

I'm pretty much with noodle on this.

I stick by my prior recommendation several posts back - if he claims he's coming home with a NC letter ready to go, give him the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. On face value, this would meet your Plan B criteria, right? If so, I believe you need to honor in honesty the criteria you set. This "moral high ground" will be valuable in the near future.

Now, none of us here believe he'll honor his NC statement. Possible, but not likely. Even if he MEANS it right now, he'll likely relapse. He may not even follow through with the NC letter. If he refuses to send the letter or even if he does, and you later get good evidence that he's not keeping NC, then you pull out Plan B again and send him packing - if he'll leave (this raises legal issues - more about this below). This is when you cite your prior trust that his NC claim from San Antonio was sincere, and you honored your criteria, but he didn't live up to his part of the bargain, so 23 skido. No faithinme, no routine interaction with the children, nada, zilch, zero. Also, consider spilling the beans to OW's CO.

A legal problem could exist - and exists already unless you have it nailed - that you may not be able to keep him out of your house. This is a common Plan B non-starter. What have you accomplished on this?

WAT

If you can stand plan a, go ahead and let him come home with his commitment, even though you know he will probably screw up a few times. If contact continues, when it is right for you, let her ceo know. In the meantime, she will be going crazy and LBing all over the place. The reason I think this would be the way to go is that you need the time together since he was away for so long. He needs to know he can come home. He did agree to NC right?

Ideally there should be NC because it won't work if there are 3 people in a relationship, but I gather she can't go to where you live since she is military.

Just a personal note, when I was about 20 I dated an older man (7 yrs-not married) and at first I thought wow, then I looked at him and ran for the hills, he was too old at that stage in my life and wanted other things. I think she will realize this once the infatuation wears off, and it will. Until a woman is 25 she is not ready.

What is in your favor FIM is that she's so far away but the downside is that distance will become unbearable and you face the problem of her showing up. Having him out of the house is a wake up call of what he is missing yet gives her a place to go if she moves here. Being in the military means that her mobility is limited. This is why I still think the Harley's expertise is needed.

I let my husband come home too soon. I feared leaving him "out there" gave her free reign on contact and her manipulation. I was too quick to believe what he said because I wanted to hear it. My husband would cry during counseling because he wanted to come home so badly. We had a counselor from H#ll and if I had it to do over again, I would have found another. He renewed contact time after time until he finally woke up. I think if I had not let him come home so soon, he would have better be able to see through the fog. The difference between you and me is that my H was involved with plain and simple trash. She made a career out of destroying marriages. He never admitted it but I'm sure he gave her alot of money. Your husband is involved with someone who doesn't fully understand the mess she's gotten herself into.

It is just tricky. The Harley's could speak to both of you and get a feel for the situation. Are his responses manipulation or a clearing of the fog... It's difficult to tell with reading printed words and no inflection. So often what someone doesn't say tells more than what they do say and if the Harley's could speak to him on the phone, I believe it would be a big help and possibly they could lead you to a competent counselor in your area that has training in recovery.

I can find arguments for both plans of action-continuing Plan B or letting him come home with the understanding of Plan A with NC. I too agree the one month thing is useless. He'll never emotionally leave her and that is what it takes to clear the fog. It's cruel to everybody and a waste of time. He needs to decide NOW one way or the other.

My H took great joy in writing the NC letter and had I been in a better frame of mind, I could have seen what he was really saying. The thing wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I had to ask him to include in the letter than he loved his wife and daughter. Stupid me...I shouldn't have had to ask and I couldn't see it at the time. He kept getting his "fix" just enough to say emotionally involved. All that was doing was prolonging the agony.

What is in your favor FIM is that she's so far away but the downside is that distance will become unbearable and you face the problem of her showing up. Having him out of the house is a wake up call of what he is missing yet gives her a place to go if she moves here. Being in the military means that her mobility is limited. This is why I still think the Harley's expertise is needed.

I let my husband come home too soon. I feared leaving him "out there" gave her free reign on contact and her manipulation. I was too quick to believe what he said because I wanted to hear it. My husband would cry during counseling because he wanted to come home so badly. We had a counselor from H#ll and if I had it to do over again, I would have found another. He renewed contact time after time until he finally woke up. I think if I had not let him come home so soon, he would have better be able to see through the fog. The difference between you and me is that my H was involved with plain and simple trash. She made a career out of destroying marriages. He never admitted it but I'm sure he gave her alot of money. Your husband is involved with someone who doesn't fully understand the mess she's gotten herself into.

It is just tricky. The Harley's could speak to both of you and get a feel for the situation. Are his responses manipulation or a clearing of the fog... It's difficult to tell with reading printed words and no inflection. So often what someone doesn't say tells more than what they do say and if the Harley's could speak to him on the phone, I believe it would be a big help and possibly they could lead you to a competent counselor in your area that has training in recovery.

I can find arguments for both plans of action-continuing Plan B or letting him come home with the understanding of Plan A with NC. I too agree the one month thing is useless. He'll never emotionally leave her and that is what it takes to clear the fog. It's cruel to everybody and a waste of time. He needs to decide NOW one way or the other.

My H took great joy in writing the NC letter and had I been in a better frame of mind, I could have seen what he was really saying. The thing wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I had to ask him to include in the letter than he loved his wife and daughter. Stupid me...I shouldn't have had to ask and I couldn't see it at the time. He kept getting his "fix" just enough to say emotionally involved. All that was doing was prolonging the agony.

FiM,

Forget about whether you are weak depending on which plan you decide to go with at this time. I can assure you that you are NOT weak.

Neither Plan A nor Plan B have anything to do with weakness. It takes great strength to implement either.

Meditate on two questions and you might find your answer:

1. Can you lovingly support your WH and continue a stellar Plan A while he continues to sit on the fence and maintain contact with OW?

Or,

2. Can you implement a strong Plan B which might include WH moving to SAT and moving in with OW, letting her meet all of his needs, and waiting in the dark (perhaps for months) until reality brings the fantasy to an end?

Only you can look deep inside yourself and know the answers to these questions. If you lean more toward one than the other, then that is the way to go.

And whichever way you decide, you must be honest with your husband about why you are choosing this path and the fears you have that you might be making a mistake:

"WH, I can welcome you home and help you as you sort through your feelings. But I am afraid my love for you will suffer because I know you are struggling with feelings for another woman."

OR

"WH, my heart and body want to welcome you home and help you as you sort through your feelings. I truly believe if you are home with me and the children, you will become convinced that our marriage can be healed and be better than ever. But I am too afraid that I will not be able to live with you knowing that you are still wondering if you love her. I know that I must let you go and hope that somehow, some way, you will find your way back to us when you are completely committed to making our marriage work and OW is no longer holding a piece of your heart."

Both of these end, of course, with "I love you."

~ Snow

FIM....I see two lines of though here. Your husbands original plan was to come home and spend another month with u b4 moving to SAT. When you decided on PlanB he changed his mind. Now, he has either agreed to NC to keep you quiet so he can stick to his original plans (he may well have told the OW this), or he truly wants to work on yoru marriage. Both may be true in his fogged out mind (hes a cakeeater ...we all know that!).

However for my 2penniesworth (being british ...we dont have cents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), I am inclined to think that you need to continue with PlanA. The reason for this is that you have been apart from him for so long that he really is only just realising how wonderful marriage with you can be. As long as you have him at home then you can continue to PlanA him and have him fall more deeply in love with you. The longer he is away from OW the more she is likely to LB. he has at least agreed to NC. Whether or not he means it , you cannot know but u need to take him at his word and institute a programme of radical honesty. Make sure YOU get his cell phone and install spyware on teh computer if necessary. he is the one with somethign to prove.

You have a chance of at least a whole month more of PlanA...remember teh effect that a few weeks of this had? I certainly think its worth taking anoterh shot at it. If he leaves at the end of the month, or breaks NC then certainly PlanB. In the meantime my humble opinion is not to lose the opportunity of you and your kids continuing that wonderful PlanA, leaving him more memories of how terrifc you all are at meeting his needs, if planB ever becomes necessary.

best of luck !

Debra xx

FIM -

I have been mulling your situation over in my mind. I kind of agree with Debbra. Your story is a little different. Yes, your husband cheated, but he was away. I think it probably started out innocently enough.

You did a very short Plan A, which is not recommended.

If your Plan B brings him back, it might be wiser to work on your marriage. I wish you would check with the Harleys.

I also agree with Debbra. It will give you a little time and it will be a thorn in the OW side. She may wake up or meet someone else in the meantime.

Plan be is always another option. We support you. Hugs-no matter what.

FiM,

Hope you're doing OK. Update when you can...

~ Snow

My only concern with delaying Plan B and extending Plan A ... in this particular sitch....

This is not the first A in this marriage....

And with that past history, no matter how many years ago his other 2 As were , I think a firm boundary must be drawn. ASAP

Extending Plan A any longer than necessary when there is a past history of affairs is dicey, in my opinion.

It has been nearly 9 years Mr. Pep and I are in recovery. I do know this, I have been an excellent loving spouse ESPECIALLY these past 9 years.... if there is another affair on his part, there will be no Plan A .... because my value to this marriage has already been demonstrated with a long track record.

I think Faithinme's track record is also excellent. She is an excellent wife, a wonderful mother, and a good all around person. If her H doesn't know that by now.... then he's a dullard. No matter if he was off overseas .

He knows THIS fact: his loving faithful wife kept the home together, and I think her track record and her prior efforts serve as part of her Plan A .... even before D-day, I imagine she was close to a stellar wife!

And I think being forgiven for his prior 2 As has made Faithinme's hubby cocky, and sure that she will sit and wait for him to finish his playing around. He'll be home when he's done screwing around, and he knows he's got a GREAT woman already in Faithinme. She has nothing to prove to him, as far as I am concerned.

I think it's different if the BS has many marital flaws to correct, then by all means, extend the Plan A to strut your stuff ... but I just don't think that's a good fit here. Faithinme is already a winner .... and Dork-face knows it too.

Faithinme.... this is ALL personal opinion, no expert opinion. Do what you will, we support you.

Pep

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Oh yes, I forgot about the other affair-he does need to know that that is it. Faith-hope you're OK. Hugs

Hi, prayers are with you. Having recently started Plan A, and having done so because I found out that e-contact had resumed for my FWH with the OW, and having had to deal with his anger at my spying and finding out, I have a suggestion: Send an e-journal to him. And he should e-journal to you, too. This does not replace talking, rather it's a supplement. You can bring up difficult subjects. He can process and then be better prepared to discuss.
Me-BS-49 My WH - 43
3 great kids - 18,15, 9
D-Day 5/8/04 PA - 15 months
Working tohether now at recovery

Okay, now I am starting to worry. Has anybody heard from FiM? It's been several days since she posted... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

~ Snow

No. I'm assuming that WH came home, and she is "busy".

Hopefully they haven't gotten out of bed since he got home. Got to love the honeymoon phase of making up. I am praying anyway.

Good Morning. Thank you again to everyone for your input, thoughts and prayers.

I had made the decision to go ahead and let him come home with NC and a commitment to truly working on our marriage. Well, he's home..... a few days late.

He is well known for missing his flights, especially early ones. This is a man that for two years travelled 2-3 weeks out of the month, flying out Monday and home Friday. I can't even begin to tell you how many Monday morning flights he would miss. It was never that big of a deal to him because he knows how easy it is to catch the next flight on stand by. He always managed to get where he needed to be by the time he needed to be there. He is also one of those people that can't be on time for ANYTHING unless it is do or die. If I tell him we need to be somewhere at 6, he'll be ready to LEAVE at 6.

In fact, he tells me OW is exactly the same. It's one of the reasons they're so compatible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ANYWAY, he ended up getting here Sunday night rather than Saturday afternoon. This issue has not been a pretty one between the two of us. Missing Saturday's flight out, I understood. I didn't say it was okay, I wasn't happy about it, and he should have gotten his throwing-up-hangover-lazy butt on the plane, but he didn't.

So he booked the first Sunday flight out at 7 am the next day. Honestly, I knew he wouldn't make it. He hasn't made a flight before 9 am since I've known him! Hell, he missed the flight going THERE last week. 7 am flight. DUH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He managed to push my patience to the limit because he chose to 1/ not call me to tell me he missed the flight and kept his phone off so I couldn't get through. I checked online and KNEW he didn't make it and confirmed what flight he changed to, but he didn't know that. He told me he didn't feel like hearing the riot act for missing the plane since he was having a crappy day anyway and so he decided to just talk to me once the first leg of the flight was over. That would be right about the time he should have been showing up to the house. Dork.

Second reason, he lied about taking an earlier flight because he, again, figured I'd freak out knowing he took a flight two hours later than he could have.

So, basically we have a guy right now who feels he is justified for lying if he's gonna get questioned for his actions. Nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Now, I'm going to tell you what I think happened here. He already told me OW is feeling edgy and nervous (my interpretation of his telling me she's "not happy with me right now" and "I'm having a hard time in this position"). He was afraid to tell her about NC and he put it off until the night before he left. He told me this much. I'm pretty sure the little girl freaked out.

I think she was a bit freaky the whole time he was there. He kept calling me reassuring me while she was at work and then suddenly the calls to me would stop at three my time. Five her time. Hmmm. She gets off of work then. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Of course, that's when the girls started calling every fiftenn minutes, but that's beside the point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Then, at night he's trying to reassure her since he's coming back for longer than they had originally planned, heck, that he's coming back at all! So, he gives back to her the days he had put off going down earlier to stay with us to make her feel more secure. Then, stays longer, I'm sure with the same line he gave me, "Do I seem like a man that wants to leave. I missed my plane and everything."

He really just doesn't think he is as transparent as he truly is. Amazing.

Anyway, he finally made it home and comes in to a little party I was having with 3 other couples we're good friends with and their children. He comes in, kisses and hugs me and acts as if nothing is wrong.

Back in a while, gotta go to a meeting........

faith -

Well, however he did it, he did come back. Sounds like he is still foggy though. I would spend a couple days having fun, and then ask him to reassure you by writing a NC letter.

He he makes excuses of why he can't - by saying it is pointless, they already have NC, he doesn't want to hurt her, blah, blah, blah, then you will know that he is not ready to work on recovery.

What happened with his job interview?