FL,
Great question. I recall Beth mentioning that she prays that the Lord reveals her pride to her on a daily basis. She needs to do that b/c there are times when she does not recognize it. So at best our pride is elusive. It is in essance our fleshly desires that we choose to follow for the wrong reasons and in conflict with God's purpose for us. Sometimes we can be prideful when we think we are doing good. We might say "wow, look at me and what I am doing for you".

In Romans 12:3, Paul talks about pride. It is thinking too highly of yourself as opposed to having the correct veiw of yourself. For me, pride was that I don't really need God or I don't want to "bother" God with my petty needs. I was saying pridefully that I don't need to depend on God for anything. I thought I could handle everything on my own in my way.

Pride is putting yourself ahead of or in place of God. The King placed himself in a place that was clearly ordained for the priests. God did not ordain the king to burn incense in the temple. He essentially put himself and his desires ahead of God's desires. When you look at the New Testament, you see the Pharasees consistantly putting themselves ahead of the very God they claimed to worship. They had thier own agenda and Jesus was very hard on them b/c they were filled by pride.

Prideful moments occur when our needs are not met and we set out on an agenda to have them met in some other way besides what God wants for us. Pride is not having an accurate picture of who you are and who your creator is. Pride is saying to God I will be who I say I should be and reject who God says I should be. Pride keeps us in denial and keeps us in anger and bitterness. Pride is self destructive. Pride is disobedience to God's will for us.

For us, our flesh embodies pride. We need to ask God to reveal it to us. Why does God HATE pride? B/c pride says I don't need you God and I am going to depend on myself and do things my way. Pride says I have been wronged and I am going to make things right when really God is the one who will make things right. Pride is the world view. The scripture says Satan was filled with pride. He tried to place himself ahead of God. Pride is rebellion against the Holy Father.

I could go on and on, but I hope this makes sense. Maybe we can come up with a more concise definition and a way to see our pride more clearly. I will try to find some scripture references.

Christ's Love, Roman

I will get the book today and start too. Beth Moore Bible studies are great. Just did Believing in God and that was so good.COUNT ME IN!

hi 2kidsmom. welcome. i read up on your story (it was easy since you don't have many posts yet!!). wish i could give you some good advice... but what i can do is welcome you to this. welcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

roman, i'll have to read your post a few more times and reflect a bit. i think my problem is the word itself. there are not many memories that come to mind when i think about my mom saying nice things about me while growing up. at my aunt's house the day i graduated she was telling someone else how proud she was of me. it is one of those experiences that stick with me so strongly because hearing that really made me feel good. in the dictionary one of the definitions of pride is a reasonalbe or justifiable self-respect. that does not sound like a bad thing to me!!! i do understand what you are saying though.

FL,
Pride essentially takes on a negative connotation when we boast about our accomplishments w/o recognizing that God has enabled us to acheive the result. We need to be aware that He provides the air we breathe and the strength that we need to breathe the air He alone provides. The definition you set forth sounded more like humility. That is, humility is an accurate self view. Humility is not thinking too highly or too lowly about yourself. To the world, pride is okay b/c it does not recognize the sovereignty of God. The world view says that we need not depend on anyone but ourselves for our accomplishments. The very moment we do not recognize God for our accomplishments, we are in pride and in danger of thinking too highly of ourselves. We may begin to place our agenda ahead of God's purpose for our lives. Beth Moore would have that issue before her. Look at her popularity and accomplishments. Look at how easily she could get caught up in herself as her ministry grows.

I found some undetected pride in my life by looking at this issue with you. I have been thinking about what a great guy I am and how I am sacrificing for my W in this circumstance. Thinking about how much I have endured. First of all I am a sinner full of sinful desires and flaws. I must recognize any good in me is a result of God's work and not my own. Second, God gets all the credit for my M and any progress we have made. He alone has kept it together and provided me and her with the strength to continue under very dire circumstances.

I would warn anyone just as Beth has to pray for discernment when it comes to pride. It is elusive and deceptive.

Roman

Roman -

Your replies to any of my posts are welcome. It’s funny that you mention “God hates divorce,” because in the wee hours of this morning, I was just thinking that people often say that, but I was wondering if there’s an actual verse along those lines, or if it is a general description based on all the scriptures about marriage.

This will be a long post, and might answer some of FinallyLearning’s questions to me about what our process has been, too. Feel free to take a nap or eat a sandwich half way through and then continue later!

The thing is, one of my questions from d-day on is that since Jesus said divorce is permitted under the circumstances of an A, does that mean it could be God’s will that we get divorced? I know people will say that since God is against divorce, it would never be his will that it happen, but I’m wondering if I changed the situation when I broke our marriage vows.

As far as pride goes, I know that I have no self-esteem, but maybe that’s different from pride. I was watching Dr. Phil the other night (not a habit of mine, I don’t necessarily like him all that much), and he was saying (this will be my translation of what he said, anyway) to a woman who had an A that dwelling on her past mistakes and living in guilt was prideful. That’s not the way he said it, but that’s what I got out of what he said.

It makes sense, in a way. On the one hand, if I keep feeling guilty and punishing myself, I’m making sure the situation is all about me. On the other hand, I often feel like my H is the one who keeps the attention on my guilt all the time by staying angry (impatient, sullen, fill in the blanks). He says he’s not angry, he’s hurt.

It comes across as anger to me. From a year after d-day until now, he stays absent as much as possible (same as the 26 years before my A), often ignores me when he’s home, only speaks when spoken to, and then snaps or mumbles the answers at me. He says he’s only happy at work, church, and hobbies. He says he only stays with me sometimes because of our children (grown and in their 20’s) and church (he doesn’t want to disappoint or hurt people there, or lose his role in some ministries there).

One good thing that has come from all this mess is that my H has turned to God and gotten involved in church and is really happy there. He has been a Christian since jr. high, but has never been involved before.

One thing I need to mention is that it’s only been a couple months since my H found out I was in contact with FOM longer than he thought I was. I did send a second NC e-mail to FOM a year ago (before I registered at this site), and have maintained NC. My H says he forgives me and believes that I have repented for what I have done, and that he sees positive changes in me, but that he feels like a fool, and is just very hurt, and doesn’t know if he can handle it anymore.

I waited a year to tell H about the continued contact because I was scared. I believed it was a wall between us, though, and I wanted to clear things up. I prayed about it carefully before I told him and really thought I was “supposed” to tell him. I just didn’t anticipate that it would be like a second d-day. However, I really do understand the seriousness of continued contact, and I support and practice NC 100%.

It took me a long time to finally quit, and I’m ashamed of that, but I have quit. At this point, a year later, I sometimes feel like I’m being punished for telling the truth, though, not for lying back then. He insists that’s not the case, and says he now just needs more time to recover again, which I understand. He also says he will try to be aware of his attitude at home and be nicer.

By the way, my H knows my name on here and could read anything I write (although I don’t know if he lurks or not). I’m not writing anything that he and I haven’t already discussed. I mean, I don’t have any secrets from him about my feelings or anything. He has a log on name and password here, but he has never posted. He says it’s too painful. The other day he asked if we should post our story, though, and see what people write.

We read HN/HN and did the questionnaires two years ago. We had a secular MC as well as the pastor for about 8 months (then they turned us loose, saying we could return anytime we need to, of course). My H will not do IC, although I have (and plenty of it). I have wanted to go back to the pastor several times this past year, but my H is resistant. I know I could drag him there if I really had to, but it makes me feel like I’m forcing him to do something he doesn’t want to do, which feels terrible.

A year ago, I bought Surviving An Affair and Love Busters (I think it was called. I can’t find it – I hid the books so my kids won’t stumble upon them), but my H became enraged and said it hurt him too much to continue reading these books. After about 24 hours, he relented and realized that reading HN/HN had made me physically ill, but I read it for him, so he decided he would read those books for me. However, I was afraid to continue pressing about the reading, because his reaction was so strong. I avoided the books like the plague until a couple months ago. That’s when I started reading again and felt “convicted” to tell him that contact continued longer than he thought. Now, here we are, hanging on by a thread again.

It just seems like everything I say and do is wrong, and that I just keep hurting him more and more, even when I’m trying to make things better.

I think this is long enough now – thanks for listening. Just think how long it would have been if I hadn’t deleted some paragraphs!

Also, welcome 2kidsmom!

Rose55

P.S. Oh yeah, the book. I’ll start reading Part II now. I figure anyone can feel free to make comments on any part of the book anytime.

FL – I understand your resistance to taking meds, and it depends on how well you’re functioning without them, but if you really feel like you can’t stand being depressed anymore, meds are a way to “get over the hump” until you can finally feel better. If there are side effects you don’t like, you can always quit taking them, or switch to something else. You don’t have to take them forever, in any case. Oh well, you have to do what’s best for you. God bless.

hi rose,

thanks for sharing so much. i wanted to let you know i did read it (without nap or sandwich) but i cannot post much of a response now because i am very crunched for time.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my H became enraged and said it hurt him too much to continue reading these books

I avoided the books like the plague

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i bought the books but don't push H to read them for fear of his reaction. he does know i have them, he is not asking where they are either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if I keep feeling guilty and punishing myself, I’m making sure the situation is all about me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i know this was sometimes happening in my case. if he tries to tell me about his hurts and i end up getting upset, feeling guilty, punishing myself, i shut him down. i work hard on watching for that now so it does not happen.

i'm sure there is more to respond to but i have to go!!!

Rose,
Yes the verse is in Malichi 2:16. It is clear in the old and new testment about divorce. One clarification, divorce of a M ordained by God is never His will. He does allow for divorce when there is hard heartedness over an extended period of time. I believe my own mother has clear grounds for divorce b/c my father has been hard hearted toward her most of thier married life. Read Mathew 19:8. At first glance it appears Jesus is saying you can divorce for adultry. But when you look at the scripture closely, He mentions hard heartedness. Why? B/c the law of Moses allowed it, but God's intent was to protect the wife who was not hard hearted. Therefore, I believe if is an abusive relationship that endangers the physical or emotional welfare of the spouse, I believe God allows it. The act of infidelity is not just grounds unless the infidelity continues and the spouse refuses to reconcile over a long period of time.

I feel for you as you describe your situation and my only response is for you to focus on your growth and faith. I am so encouraged that you have joined in the discussion b/c I see Beth Moore as a person who will lead many women (and men) to richer lives through pursuing God. It does not mean you will not experience lows and highs. It does not mean you will not be disappointed, hurt and discouraged. But it does mean that when you have those lousy negative experiences, you will seek God who is eternally faithful to you and is available to meet all your needs. Your self esteem will come from God. Why? b/c in His eyes you are truly special and loved beyound your own comprehension. It does not matter what evils are in our past. He still loves you and has a purpose for you. All you need to do is believe in Him and seek Him.

This does not happen over night or in a month or even a year. Trust me, if you seek Him you will find Him and you will have a relationship with him that is more fantastic than you ever thought possible. He is ready and waiting for you. I have told my W and others that conviction comes from the Holy Spirit, but guilt is Satan's tool. Don't live in it. All that is necessary is confession, repentance and obedience. Once that is done, God wipes the slate clean. Yes there are consequences to our poor choices and we will have to endure them, But God does not want us to live in defeat. He provided the victory when He sent His son to the cross.

I think when you stop trying to do all the recovery work by yourself, you will see more progress. Give your H over to God. Let God apply the pressure. You just focus on your walk and do all that God commands you to do as a W. That is how you will glorify Him the most. Take a look at Proverbs 31 and especially I Peter 3. Notice how the W wins her H over w/o a word, but by behavior. Awesome stuff!!

I hope this helps, Christ's Love, Roman

Thanks Roman,

Yes, that does help. I read the verse in Malachi. WHOA. Cool. I didn’t know that was really in there. Good answer! Also I was reading the Bible this morning for comfort and “happened upon” Psalm 51:17, “The sacrifice God wants is a broken spirit. God, you will not reject a heart that is broken and sorry for sin” (New Century Version).

Then I read Psalm 34 again, which always lifts me up. I don’t know when it was put to music, but in the 1970s, the first 4 verses or so were a song. (I know they were songs when David and friends sang them, but I’m thinking we had a different tune. LOL) It was popular to sing Psalms in the 70s. I wonder why it seems not to be done so much anymore.

This morning I was praying for some reassurance, and my husband came into the room, sat real close to me, and asked me how I was. We just sat close for awhile, and even joked around a little. I’ve been fighting depression for a couple months and finally gave up and got on some meds again. I think everything will look better and be easier once I really start feeling better.

I went on a Women's Retreat with my church last spring, and I really felt like the Lord was reminding me again to "surrender all" (another song you don't hear so much anymore). It's weird, but surrendering turns out to feel like the hardest thing to do, but also the easiest thing, once you do it. I try to sing the old hymn "I Surrender All" when I realize I'm taking my troubles back.

I’m going on a road trip for over a week with my sister starting this Saturday, and I don’t know how much computer access I’ll have, but I’m taking Beth’s book with me, and will continue reading. Early after d-day, I read “When Godly People Do Ungodly Things” that she wrote, and it helped a lot. It made me feel like I’m not the only mess-up in the world, and that I am forgivable - renewable.

I’ll be checking in when I can. Thanks again!

God bless,

Rose55

P.S. This is the first "fun" trip without my H in two years! I wasn't sure about going, but he has been very positive about it and believes it is a good idea.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

Hi,

I was back in the office last thurs and friday but never posted. (i stay away from computers on weekends for the most part).

I must admit, i avoided this post like the plague because I just feel so incapable. (rose you are NOT the only mess-up in the world!!! actually i think the more politically correct thought process is that NEITHER of us are mess-up's...)

So today when i finally searched out this post again it was very helpful to see roman's post and then rose's response both dated aug 19. I will have to look up the verses mentioned tonight.

I also started avoiding the book too. It's funny at the most appropriate times, Beth would write, "now don't give up on me here", like she knew i was getting to a point of figuring i am a hopeless case!!!

I promised myself i would at least post today, so here is my post. i have fulfilled that promise.

rose, hope your trip has been a good one. looking forward to hearing from you.

roman, how are you doing?? i have been doing more memorizing (not a lot, but some). how about you?

Karen

Karen, if you scroll down, you will see a topic I started for you today.

I have been Worried about you...it is so unlike you to go two weeks without expressing your thoughts, by writing messages here at MB.

Hope all is OK with you.
Love, Julie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

bumping up... rose, roman, you out there?

Julie, i responded in the thread you started for me. thanks for the concern. i am still around.

Hi all.

I'm back from a 10-day trip I had fun and a good visit with my sister. I spent yesterday with my H (he took the day off work to be with me! Yay!).

I've only read Chapter 3 since I last posted. I meant to read more, but you know how it is when you're on vacation!

Chapter 3 is about salvation. I accepted Christ when I was 10 and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when I was 17 (I'm what they call "Bapticostal" lol) and have spent most of my life attending and participating in church activities.

That's part of what makes my A so shocking for my H (and me, too). At the time I had my A, I was really in a bad place spiritually, physically, and emotionally. I hate that I allowed myself to get in such bad shape. I know now that I was harboring tons of resentment and anger (against my H, but also against church somewhat), which pushed me in the wrong direction.

Beth's statement on page 28 expresses how I feel about God today, "I found Him faithful yesterday. He will not be unfaithful today."

How did you feel about Chapter 3?

Rose55

Rose,

I'm sorry i have neglected this post for so long. I honestly am at a loss right now. The AD meds must not yet be kicking in, i just cannot get myself to stay up beat for very long.

Remember the 5 benefits listed in the introduction to part 2?

1. To know God and believe Him.
2. To glorify God.
3. To find satisfaction in God.
4. To experience God's peace.
5. To enjoy God's presence.

I've got them memorized but, I don't think i can honestly state i am experiencing any of these benefits. Ok, i can state 1/2 of the first one. I have always felt I believe in God, I do believe in God. but i have also never felt like i comprehended how a person knows Him, how a person has a personal relationship with God. truth be told, i don't think I have ever understood what is meant by that. I do NOT understand what feeling God's presense in one's life feels like.

WHY????? what is so screwed up in me that I can't really get my head around what that means?

even still, i believe i am a good person, i really do, i believe i really do have a good heart. i am caring / loving / extremely giving and funny.

i believe i was being pretty successful in life.

I 100% feel i was excellent mom. I was the type of mom that really enjoyed her kids. from when they were babies and up, i enjoyed being with them, playing with them, learning with them, reading to them. roller skating, finger painting, snowball fights (outside with snow, inside with rolled up socks), sledding in the dark, park hopping, picnics, camping with my daughter, concerts with my son. music and laughter always surrounded the 3 of us. the 3 of us, not 4, i was a single mom 95% of the time.

now its such a struggle to laugh with them.

I was an active member at church, not a cornerstone but active, i enjoyed volunteering, working with kids, summer bible camp for years, i would save a week's vacation so i could do that with my kids. i volunteered in the toddler room and even did some sunday school teaching. H wouldn't join me and didn't like the time i gave to the church. he is the type that wants to show up on "convienent" sunday mornings for the hour service and then leave quickly.

now i feel like i dont' belong at the church, i don't know anyone anymore. if you neglect relationships they fade away.

H also, being such a private person, is not one to "share" his faith with another. he didn't want to talk about prayer to me, he didn't like it when i made an advent wreath for home, i got something from a pastor at the church to have home advent services each sunday (since we were not consistenly going to the church, i thought i would try to bring it into the home), we did it but it was awkward for him.

i wish i could understand him better. i wish i could understand why he is so uncomfortable sharing himself. when i ask him, he just says he is a private person.

are we just too incompatible?

i was very successful at work, always very capable, loved to help others, loved to tackle the hardest/weirdest problems.

i don't enjoy work anymore.

I have lost me. and i don't see me making much progress in getting me back. I used to let me shine thru. now there is only sadness in my eyes. my sister told me that today, she said my twinkle is gone. family used to mean so much to me, now i bearly talk to my siblings.

i lost me when Dad got sick in sept of 1999 and he still wanted no relationship with me during his final year on this earth. and i snapped and i decided i choose a man that didn't want a real relationship with me either and i was not going to settle for that anymore. i deserved to be loved.

ok, i don't know where all that came from, talk about just letting mind go in whatever direction it wants to go in. i am so good at rambling. not that any of this helps me one bit.

except it has made me very tired now. i really need a good night's sleep, i have not had one this past week.

(((((((Finally Learning)))))))

Did you ever follow the 4 steps on page 27 to “receive Christ as your Personal Savior?” These days that phrase is considered old-fashioned, and even made fun of, but I believe it’s the way to have a “personal relationship with God.” Participating in church activities isn’t enough, although fellowship with other believers is important.

1. Acknowledge that you are a sinner and that you cannot save yourself.
2. Acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only He can save you.
3. Believe that His Crucifixion was for your personal sins and that His death was in your behalf.
4. Give Him your life and ask Him to be your Savior and Lord.

Also, I know it’s hard right now, but I’ve found I can feel God’s presence by worshipping Him. It doesn’t have to be in public; you can sing your favorite “Hallelujah” song in the privacy of your own home, or even make one up.

At first it might seem impossible to do, since you feel so horrible right now, but if you force yourself to do it, you might find that it gets easier and really helps you to feel better. Ask God to let you feel His presence. I will admit that it’s not always an immediate relief, but God will hear you, and you might be surprised that His peace will slip up on you when you least expect it. Reading Psalms always helps me, too.

Meanwhile…do you have an appointment for a med-check with your Dr., or could you call him/her and say that the meds aren’t helping? A higher dose or different medication might be necessary. I’ve been taking Welbutrin (this time) almost three weeks now and feel a lot better, although not 100% yet. Life still gets in the way. I know you know what I mean.

How's your H doing lately? I was gone for 10 days, so my H and I had some much needed time apart. We agreed to "wipe the slate clean" and "start over" (again) when I got back. We're both trying very hard to be better partners. There's always that lingering sadness, though.

Hugs,

Rose

hi rose,

yes i read that too.

I do acknowledge that i am a sinner and i cannot save myself.

I do acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only He can save me.

Maybe I fall short on the next one, believing that His crucifixion was for my personal sins and that His death was in my behalf.

I do give Him my life and ask Him to be my Savior and Lord.

now my actions have to match. If God is my Lord then I must act the way Jesus taught us. But i fall short so horribly!!!

next appt with Dr is 9/14

Its been a bad week for H and I, which means he withdrawals and distances himself from me. I do believe we are turning things back around and i am hopeful for a nicer weekend.

I'm glad the time apart helped you and your H. I will keep you in my prayers. I want to be more faithful about pray. I must admit i skipped ahead in the book a bit and skimmed the chapter on over coming praylessness. I do NOT pray enough. I know this sounds stupid but I don't feel like i know how to adequately. Even in reading some prayers that people post here, i just am not that elequant. I know you will say God does not require elequance and although i want to add "but i am so bad at wording my prayers", i will not. I will tell myself right now, my prayers, as rough as they are, ARE acceptable in God's eyes.

i hope you have a very nice weekend.

p.s. i think i am going to put my rings back on. i don't like not having them on. H will never know i had taken them off.... although maybe i should actually tell him i am struggling with it. that would be practicing radical honesty. as long as i tell him i was not trying to be mean spirited when i took them off. i'll have to think about all this as i drive home. i'm going to leave early so i can get home before the kids and we can have some alone time. we talked about playing racquetball and i know H would do it but he is tired and so am i so i told him i would just come home and hang out with him.

FL - Hope you had a good 3-day weekend! Has the book been able to retain your interest? Some days it is just so hard to stay motivated. I read Chapter 4 and discovered there’s a workbook. Do you have the workbook? I wonder if it would help.

Well, definitions of “glory” are floating around in my head. I guess the main point of the chapter is that we are to do everything for the glory of God because we were created to be a reflection of God’s glory. I agree with what Beth writes on page 31, and feel “overwhelmed by the enormous responsibility of such a calling.” Doesn’t help when one feels discouraged and depressed to begin with.

How’s your depression? My pills are interfering with my sex life. I hate when that happens. My med-check is next week. Pills have helped me on a number of occasions in a lot of ways, but it sure is a drag having to keep searching for something without unpleasant side-effects.

How did your weekend go? My H and I got along great over the weekend. It really is an answer to prayer that we are still in the game! A couple weeks ago, I didn’t think we were going to make it.

I just recently finished my BA, and I’m supposed to be looking for a job, but I have trouble even getting my rear to the grocery store. Life always has so much stuff going on at once. My daughter needs guidance with decisions about her love life, and I feel like I’m the last person to give anyone advice!

Where is anyone else who wanted to do this study with us? More input on the book (and anything else) would be welcome!

God bless,
Rose

Hi Rose,

I did not read anymore in the book but I have been thinking about it. Specifically:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1. Acknowledge that you are a sinner and that you cannot save yourself.
2. Acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only He can save you.
3. Believe that His Crucifixion was for your personal sins and that His death was in your behalf.
4. Give Him your life and ask Him to be your Savior and Lord. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i am realizing more and more that I have not done all 4. I struggle with #3. I have realized without believing in #3 I cannot do #4.

I have also been trying to get into a habit of praying. I have never been one to pray on a regular basis.

My weekend was nice. yesterday was our 18yr anniversary, we are going out to dinner tonight because we could not last night.

H told me in the middle of the day yesterday that he had not gotten a card yet and asked if we could exchange cards today instead. I actually found one that seems to have been written for a FWW to give to her BS...

on the front it says: God bless our love. and on the inside... Each day I thank the Lord for you, and ask Him in my prayer, To help me recommmit my life to everything we share. To teach me how to keep our marriage ever fresh and new, and tender ways to help me show how much I cherish you.

I'm hoping he will like it as opposed to having it be a negative trigger. what do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I agree with what Beth writes on page 31, and feel “overwhelmed by the enormous responsibility of such a calling.” Doesn’t help when one feels discouraged and depressed to begin with.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you totally read my mind!!!!!

regarding depression... i almost fell into a hole at one point but managed to control it. i have not decided if it is the meds or if i just managed to handle it. i guess i should be thinking it is the meds that helped me. i still HATE that i need meds!! i don't know why it should bother me, especially if it is the meds that helped me stay above ground this time. i can't say i have noticed any side effects yet. i would tend to think having it effect my sex-drive would be a good thing really. it would give my H a chance to be the initiator more often.

I am so glad you and your H got along well this past weekend. yeah for you!!!

how old is your daughter. mine is too young for a love life but i do hope our ability to recover this marriage (i am assuming it WILL happen) will help her and my son. to see a relationship close to failing but then seeing that success can still happen with love and God. (not necesarily in that order).

Congrats on the BS!!! Finding a job is not fun but you can do it. just start getting that resume out there.

I don't have the workbook... are you going to get it.

sorry this not is so choppy!!! it does seem like it is only you and i but that is ok. Are you doing the memorizing. i am commited to doing the memorizing. I know I may be slow but I do intend on reading the entire book!!!

Our women's group started the Breaking Free study last night by video and workbook.

I want to post to you from the introductory video/workbook and join this thread. I haven't started the book though so I'll be behind.

These are Goals for Breaking Free: (video response sheet from workbook)

Isaiah 9:2-9; Judges 6 & 7

1. The people of God can be very oppressed by the enemy.
Reasons God's people can experience oppression:
-Testing
-Chastisement for rebellion
-Lack of submission to God's authority
-Weakness in warfare

Isaiah 54:17

2. When oppressed, the children of God have a tendency to prepare shelters for themselves rather than do what liberty demands. These shelters can easily turn into strongholds.

Judges 6:2

3. The people of God have little defense against the destructive nature of the enemy without the power of God working in their favor. Judges 6:5,6
The Midianites Dominion
-They ruined the crops
-They impoverished the people. The original Hebrew work for "impoverished" is dalal, meaning to dry up, to be emptied, to fall, to be impoverished.

4. God did not allow His people to be oppressed so they would be defeated, but so they would ultimately be victorious. Victory begins with the cry for help. (compare Judges 6:1 to 6:6)

5. God willingly tells His children why they are being oppressed if they are willing to listen (Judges 6:7-10)
For the Christian...
-Our prison doors are locked from the inside.
-The enemy has no authority to hold us when we are ready to get out.

6. God sees the potential of His children and appoints the experience necessary for them to fulfill their destinies (Judges 6:11-16)

7. Any sacrifice we make in our quest for freedom will be wholly consumed and blessed by God.

8. To live in freedom, the people of God must recognize and forsake all other gods (Judges 6:25-27)

9. God wants to remove all doubt concerning Who brings the victory (Judges 7:1-8)

10. God recognizes our fears and insecurites (Judges 7:9-18)

FL -

Happy Anniversary! That card was perfect. Did your H like it?

My daughter is in college and has a serious romance every 6 weeks or so. LOL. She doesn't know about my A, but has certainly seen the struggle my H and I have had to stay M. I asked her one time what she thought about our relationship. She grinned and said, "You both put up with a lot." I thought that was funny, however true!

Regarding the 4 steps from the book, I guess a person believes #3 largely based on faith. Keep praying about it. There was a guy in the Bible who said something like, "I believe Lord, please help my unbelief." I'll look it up if you want me to. I'm trying to reply today without taking too much time. Otherwise, the day will go by and I might never get to it!

My M is going so smoothly right now after such a rough patch that it's almost spooky! LOL It's funny how we can pray so hard for something and then be surprised when it happens! We're both working hard on being extra specially considerate of each other's feelings.

Re the book: I haven't bought the workbook or read Chapter 5 yet. There's plenty to discuss in the first 4 chapters so far, I guess.

Welcome TryingtoMnd! Thanks for sharing the workbook steps. There is a lot to think about from this study. Number 10 is encouraging, though. Maybe you can help with some insights that you and your women's group think of.

Well, I'd better get back to my job search. More later!

Rose

Welcome Tryng2Mnd!! Nice to have you join us. We were just thinking about looking into getting the workbook. I'm interested in what you think of it. We are not that far into the book yet, in fact we seem to be a bit slow, so you do NOT have to worry about being behind us one bit. I will have to look at the list you posted a bit closer later, just have time to skim it right now. H is going to be out this evening so I hope to be able to have some time to myself to dedicate to reading/reflecting/praying on all this.

Rose, thanks for the happy anniversary wish. I do believe H liked the card. His card to me was very sweet, it said i am his friend, his love and his wife. i asked him if it was hard to buy me a card this year, he said no and he also said he took his time to find one that he felt good about. it was a very nice anniversary.

i am glad your M is going smoothly, ENJOY IT!!! and hold on to how it feels so when harder days come up, you can recall these days. i have been trying hard to do exactly that. regarding your daughter's comment... 1) i think it is very cool that you two can talk opennly like that, that is how i am with my daughter too (never was like that with my mom though) 2) i think it can actually be an advantage for kids to see parents that have worked hard to make their relationship/marriage work.

I had a bit of a lightbulb moment with the setup of part II of the book which is 10 chapters in all (i think i got that right). 5 chapters go into each of the benefits in detail and then the next 5 discuss the primary roadblock of each benefit. i have done a bit of skipping around now in that i want to read about the obsiticle to each benefit after reading the chapter on the benefit. (hopt that made sense!!)

this way i can first reflect on how much of the particular benefit i feel i am recieving and then immediately look at what it is that would be keeping me from recieving more of the benefit.

i don't want to go to fast here because i think we will get more out of it if we give ourselves time to digest and reflect on our lives and our habits of living while we read. that is what i am trying to do. and right now i have feel the need to keep working on making sure i have really received Christ as your Personal Savior. (i.e. the four steps we have listed here before).

i will say i do believe all this is helping me and i am thankful you (and now tryng2mnd) is here with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

good luck with that job search!!!

Karen