Dan:

Make one last attempt to get her to stay vs having time away by herself. You must learn more about Marriage Builders and Dr. Harley. He has spent 30 yrs working infidelity cases. He clearly states when a spouse "needs to be alone to think" means they want full access, without the checking of their spouse, to the other person.

Please try this approach. Ask her to stay in your home for the sake of the children to give you a chance to prove you can be a better husband for her. Explain to her that the kids will be effected forever if the separation leads to a divorce. Let her know that her desire to be away from her kids is nothing lee than being selfish. Let her know that God doesn't bring boyfriends and girlfriends into the lives of married people so they can fulfill a fantasy thrill at the expense of their family. Let her know her example today will be a training tool for her kids later in their lives and she is setting an example for them to cheat and walk away later.

Ask her to give you another chance away from the other man. She cannot and will not reconnect with you as long as she is connected to him. If she consumates her love with him it will be more confusing to her since sex is very bonding. Ask her to make the hardest decision in her life, but it is the right one, to walk away from the other man. Tell her her reputation, her morality, her decency, and possibly even her soul may be at stake by acting out her intentions with this man.

Dan, you must believe she is still lying to you today. The most God fearing, Christian, and loving people who are sucked into the fantasy of a relationship built on lies and deceit will lie to you without blinking an eye to protect their relationship. My wife did it to me after 20 years of a good marriage and raising our children. Today, she looks back, and it makes her sick that she did the damage and caused the pain and suffering that she caused. It was done for the sake of the relationship of her lifetime, a co-worker affair with a 28 year old kid who was 18 years younger than her.

Beg her to stay and asked her to not to be alone for the period she wants since I believe it is to only be witht the OM for her own selfish needs. I am sorry to tell you this but try and get her to stay to see if it can work out. Let her read this post and maybe it will hit home with her to some degree. We have been there where she is wanting to go and it is wrong and damaging.

In time, she will have to account for all of her actions and this will cause permanent damage to her person. She will never be the person she thought she was if she acts out this fantasy fling.

Toosoon

Desperatedan,

I’ve just followed up on all your posts (I couldn’t read & post during the weekend). I’m so sorry to hear about your W's decision and what has transpired during the visit to the MC this weekend… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Desperatedan, I agree with Too Soon that you need to fight this approach and get a different MC who understands infidelity... If you can get your W to read these posts, ask her to read the following article as well: Before you have an affair with a married man. I understand the OM is not married, but the fact that he have a steady GF and is in a serious/committed relationship, doesn't make it any different. If he can cheat on his GF he can just as easily cheat if he was a married man.

Blessings and good luck... Please continue to update us,
Suzet

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

hi suzet welcome back, just a very short note, the OM is married!!!!

Hi guys,

Just had another long talk with W. I put forward like never before the case for her to stay during this one month sojourn. I don't know if I have achieved the desired effect, but I sense a slight hesitation. Whether this translates into something more positive is up in the air. My main arguments were 1) separation would be devastating for our son 2) we can't just part and do this to our son without even trying. Of course she said "so I have to do all the work not for my happiness but for others," and I said ,"yes because we owe it to our son". The conversation went on but this was the central theme. She admitted that right now she doesn't want to work at our marriage because something went out of it a long time ago. I told her that is where the MC comes in. She seems to trust the MC's word over mine. Because when I told her that leaving is not a very good idea, she said but what will MC say? I said if MC really respects you she will abide by whatever decision you take vis-a-vis this month of soul searching. I have suggested to her that she take time of work but instead of leaving to stay at home and I will give her all the space she needs. I will move out of our bedroom and since I work long hours (out of the house at 9:30 a.m. and back at 9:30 p.m.) we would hardly see each other. And I promised that I would not discuss our problem with her at anytime during this period. I think I have made progress on having her committ to ending the A. Although this remains to be seen.
I've got a question to ask you experts out there. Is it a good idea to talk with OM and ask hime to back off? The reason for this is that W has confided in me that OM had tried to end the A before but it was W who restarted the contact. I hope that if I ask him to end it and if W tries to make contact to ignore her I may appeal to his better nature. This is a long shot, but what do you think? After all he was my friend first before W knew him.
As for changing MC's I would find it quite difficult since W and I have established very good rapport with her and I agree with her that if we were to work at this marriage this A has to end and end now. I'm not saying that she is the best but at the moment the fact that W listens to her is a small but significant step considering that a few days ago W was not going for MC at all.
I'm feeling a bit more positive now, but I'm, not overly optimistic. I have time on my side and with patience and the new A/D that my doctor prescribed this morning I will cope.
Thanks for listening.

Desperatedan, sorry for the mistake! I assumed he's not married because earlier on this thread, another poster referred to the OM’s Girlfriend (GF) instead of the OM’s Wife/Spouse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I'm feeling a bit more positive now, but I'm, not overly optimistic. I have time on my side and with patience and the new A/D that my doctor prescribed this morning I will cope.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so glad you feel hopeful and positive in spite of the circumstances... I'm also glad you've decided to use A/D's - it will be of so much help during this difficult & painfull time.

Keep the hope, faith & love Desperatedan...God cares about you and is by your side...

Blessings and prayers to you, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dan:

Sounds like there is a light shining through. I also thought the OM was single.

Be prepared for an emotional roller coaster ride and be patient. Grit your teeth because you will take the heat for her actions. You must accept this as being the way it is today. Later, once the fog lifts, you will have your day to speak your mind.

Dwell on the kids and keep your wife in the house. You have a better chance of keeping her if she doesn't leave. No Contact with the OM is crucial for her to begin the reconnection period with you. If you don't see it or feel it, assume she is still talking with him. He is the enemy and I would avoid him at all cost. Tell his wife what is going on but don't give him the time of day. He can never be your friend again....EVER!

Keep us posted.

TooSoon

Suzet thanks a lot for the encouragement. In times of deep sadness I always turn to God and pass to Him problems that I know I cannot cope with. "If God is with you, who will be against?"

Toosoon thanks to you too. I keep reminding myself that all this will pass and to paraphrase what you said just grit my teeth until the fog lifts. When W said to me earlier today that she cannot imagine our marriage ever working out I gritted my teeth and said "fog talk" and at the same time hoped that I was correct.

Well guys not much to report except that I spoke to the MC and she said to stop making decisions and doing things for W (I told her that I made all the arrangements at work so W can go on sick leave for a month and that I am also arranging other accomodation for W in case she does decide to have a month long sabbatical from me and OM.) But all our lives together I have always done these things for W and one can't break a habit of 20 years overnight! Well I'm seeing MC Thursday morning on my own and I'm going to question the wisdom of her advise to let W leave for a month. Will ceratinly keep you posted.

God bless you all.

Dan,

Your MC is right about you making decisions for your W. Let her make all of the arrangements, reality will hit her much sooner if she has to do all of the work to separate.

Further, she may well resent what appears to be control on your part.

Finally, I note your hours at work are long. I understand long hours of work, but did you spend at least 15 hours a week with your W before her A? If not you need to start thinking in terms of rearranging your life IF she decides to give this another chance. If all you do is work, then there really is no relationship to save.

Right now she views being married to you as a sacrifice on her part. I suspect she has felt she carried a heavy load before the A. And her taker is on full rampage now. If she decides to reconsider this marriage what are you prepared to do to make it something she enjoys, something she feels she is the focus of, something that meets her "taker" needs while still drawing on her "giver" abilities.

You need to start thinking about this, and discuss it with your MC. You need a plan, and you need it now. Start planning for a better marriage as defined as more time with your W, more fun with your W, and more focus on your W. In turn you may well find that she more easily focuses on you as well.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

DesDan: (Lengthy Post but it may help you understand time lines of future events in your marriage)

Our cases are not too far apart. I was married 20 years and we have two kids. My FWW was willingly planning and preparing to walk away from the kids, myself, the house, and dog for the love of the other man. There was 0% logic or realism behind her plan, just fantasy love driving her motives and dream. She put down a deposit on an apartment and was furniture shopping behind my back. She was tucking away money preparing for her move.

Now that the fog has lifted, she feels the internal reprocussions of her actions. She says she felt like dirt on mother's day for what she did to the kids. She is sorry she hurt me so badly but explained she fell in love with someone by accident and that it wasn't planned. She explained her feelings were as strong as they were when she fell in love with me 22 plus years ago. She couldn't control her emotions nor stop the feelings and desire to leave the family for the OM.

The kids and I talked her out of leaving. I and the kids said to stay and see if we could make it work. She finally agreed but she said she wouldn't leave her job if she stayed. Allowing her to keep her job enabled her to still see the OM at work. She was negotiated her ability to maintain the relationship with the OM because they were "best friends". She said she would keep it business only at work with him but time showed it was preventing her from reconnecting with me. He would not let it end and an all out battle for my wife kicked in between the OM and myself. He was determined to break up the marriage for his ability to score with her. It did buy time for some reality to kick in with my wife. In time, truth and the real personality of the OM begin to show through the fog. Slowly she began to see the selfish side of the OM, which was something she hadn’t seen before. I continued to pressure her in the presence of the MC for her to quit her job. I read several books and spent countless hours reading MB and other articles on Infidelity and I went to the MC sessions prepared with facts and knowledge of infidelity. It amazed the MC to a point where she had a hard time going against very many issues I put on the table. When I disagreed with the MC on certain points, I would prove my case based on real case studies with Dr. Harley and other MC's and she would back off of her position to defend my wife.

The OM decided to drive throught the parking lot of the MC at the same time we were there. I saw him and he drove off fast as can be. It showed my wife was sharing details of our MC and lives with the OM which meant she was still deep in the Affair. It was then, in front of the MC, that I said it was time to choose. The rights to stay with her family or the path to hell.

Finally, my wife agreed to quit her job but first she went to the OM and told him one of us had to quit the job. She told him he hated his job and she told him she loved her job and ask him to quit. He said, “nobody is going to force me to quit my job”. Think about this. Here is a guy who was Mr. Perfect who would do anything for the woman he said he loved. He wouldn’t quit the job he hated when she asked him to do so. That was a big turning point. It showed her he was self-serving and simply a selfish man. Despite that she was willing to forgive him, but after she quit her job, she became depressed and then bitter towards him. There were many other issues in between but this summed it up.

The Post Affair Effect is bad too. I was depressed because of the betrayal of my wife and she was depressed because she was losing the “love of her life”. You can’t do anything but accept her depression and your and her pain. She will not show remorse for hurting you and she will blame you for all the terrible things you have done to cause her to betray you. It is and will remain your fault for now. Time helps because her mind will make her want to clear her conscious but she will do it by taking baby steps.

If things work out, this experience will become the wakeup call to save your marriage. There will be no winners from your wife’s affair, only survivors. You need to remember this because justice won’t be served. You must remain the strongest of all the players or the marriage will die. If you become weak, the marriage will die. Throw your pride away and you have a chance.

You cannot put Humpty Dumpty back together again and have it be the same as it was because there will always be some pieces missing but you can try and rebuild Humpty Dumpty with the pieces you can find.

My FWW was recently complaining about wanting her freedom and independence that she had and blew with her affair. I recently told her to get a job or go back to her old job, get an apartment, date or marry the OM and live the independence and freedom life she talks about and craves. I told her I will not fight her or fight for her anymore and that her affair changed me forever. That shook her up and she said she is not leaving and will not look for a job.

Learn from us who have been where you are today. Take a little from each one of us. I absolutely wish you the best with your difficult and selfish wife and case.

I edited this post because I asked my FWW tonight what the main reason she didn't leave when she was so close. She said the driving force was not staying with me but it was the disruption of the kid's lives that bothered her the most. She didn't want to detroy their future by having divorced parents and issues over events and holidays, etc. She knew their lives would be changed forever as a result of a divorce and another man in her life. That was her driving force to stay and you need to keep that in mind when you are attempting to keep your wife in your house and in your life.
Keep working at saving your marriage.

TooSoon

<small>[ August 23, 2004, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I'm seeing MC Thursday morning on my own and I'm going to question the wisdom of her advise to let W leave for a month.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Desperatedan, this is a good thing... I would also doubt the wisdom and advice of the MC regarding infidelity and this situation if I were you... I think by now and after all the responses from the other members, it is clear to you that your MC's approach is certainly NOT in sync with the MB approach. The MB approach really works! Just read up on all the success and recovery stories of people who've followed the MB approach. Too Soon is a good example of someone who has been in a similar situation than you and doing good in recovery. I think you seriously need to consider going to another MC who specialize in infidelity and whose approach is the same as the MB approach. I don't say she is not a good MC... From what you've told us, it sounds if she is an awesome lady etc. I just think she is not the right MC and advisor for this current situation. Just my opinion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ August 24, 2004, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi Guys,

Thanks a lot for the posts.

Just learning - I know that I have not been the perfect husband. Hence I share much of the responsibilty for this A. I could almost hear people saying no, you are not having the A your wife is, true but had I been a more attentive and caring husband W wouldn't have had the need to have her needs fulfilled by someone else. I put my hands up and say guilty of gross negligence. I know I spend too much time at work and esp since W and I work opposite shifts we are just like ships passing in the night. So I have made arrangements at work that after this month long hiatus I am going on the same shift as W. And I fully accept your suggestions that I have to make our M more fun and interesting not only for W but also for me and the kids. This may be a bit premature but I am thinking of "loaning" a horse for W as horses were her life before we got married. If a "loan" horse proves succesful I would suggest getting one of her own. There are a lot more things that we could do and my head is brimming with ideas. But I don't want to get too carried away, all this is in the future. I must deal with the here and now. Thanks for the advice.

Toosoon - now that was a very helpful letter. I drew a lot of comfort from your experience. I was particularly struck by your phrase "there will be no winners from your wife's affair, only survivors.."I noticed in your details that your D Day was 1/14/04 and NC was 4/16/04. Why did it take that long? My D Day was 7/27/04, must I wait 4 months or so? I'm slowly dying and it's been less than a month! Right now after W has promised to stop all contact with OM I checked her "secret" cellphone and she sent 30 messages today alone! I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that maybe this is the long goodbye message. This morning she was very, very depressed. I had to talk to her on the phone because she answered when I wanted to talk to our son and she sounded really low. Is this a sign that she has said goodbye? Since D Day she hasn't been this low. Am I reading too much into things? How can you tell the real withdrawal symptoms from just plain pining symptoms. I am still so lost and confused.

I do believe that if W decides to stay it will be for our son's sake and not me or the marriage. But it is my fervent hope that we can use this as a springboard on which to launch our marriage revival. In the meantime I must continue gritting my teeth and taking all the punches.

Suzet - i will indeed see if i could convince the MC to see it from my point. she did mention to me that to get W to agree to do something was like extracting teeth. W would just have carried on with hurting and humiliating me. at least the MC has impressed upon her the impportance of doing something and not just let this fester. I will certainly keep ypu posted on how it went. Suzet is it normal for a W to be so hard, uncaring and cold towards the BS during an intense affair? how could my W be so different from the person I knew!!

Must end this now. Have to go to sleep, tonight without the aid of sleeping pills! an achievement!

I reiterate my gratitude to you all for your help. i am surviving because of you.

God bless you all.

Dan - Yes, most are hard, cold, and mean. Just part of being the WS, so don't take it personally. That is the written in the WS handbook in Chapter 1, pg 12.

DesDan:

"I noticed in your details that your D Day was 1/14/04 and NC was 4/16/04. Why did it take that long?"

Answer: My FWW refused to quit her job and she saw him (OM) everyday at work. NC means no emails, phone calls, passing in the hallway, little love winks at the drinking fountain, etc. She convinced me she could keep the relationship platonic if she saw the OM at work. The OM went in serious competition with me and he worked her everyday. I wanted to give my wife the benefit of the doubt which she used to her advantage. Dr. Harley says WS's do anything and everything to protect the "love" of their life. After DD, many WS's even negotiate with their spouse to allow them to maintain the "friendship" with the Other Person. Remember this, they love them in a heated passionate way and today they love you in a brotherly way. It hurts but it is true.

"My D Day was 7/27/04, must I wait 4 months or so? I'm slowly dying and it's been less than a month!"

Answer: You have a long road to go down. You are only in the disrupting of the Affair stage. Also these spouses will lie to you to keep it alive. The 30 messages today tells me she is still very much into him. Her mood reflects a woman in love who thinks she may lose the man she loves.....which is him. Most affairs need to run their course before they end or they must have enough pressure put on them to take the fun out of them.

"Right now after W has promised to stop all contact with OM I checked her "secret" cellphone and she sent 30 messages today alone!"

Answer: I think she will continue with the messages even after she tells you she quit. If you can monitor them, it will expose her lying. This is a tough period for you both and for different reasons. My FWW was lying to her brother and sister-in-law, to me, and the kids, all to protect her new love.

"I am giving her the benefit of the doubt that maybe this is the long goodbye message."

Answer: Dr. harley says if the WW and the OM had their way, they would go on a week long cruise to say their goodbye. You can never give her the benefit of the doubt because you are not dealing with the woman you married. She is a different woman in your wife's body. You must police her actions and words daily or hourly. Everytime you catch her lying, expose her and try and humuliate her.

"This morning she was very, very depressed. I had to talk to her on the phone because she answered when I wanted to talk to our son and she sounded really low. Is this a sign that she has said goodbye? Since D Day she hasn't been this low. Am I reading too much into things? How can you tell the real withdrawal symptoms from just plain pining symptoms. I am still so lost and confused."

ANSWER: It is a sign of her deep and real love for the OM. She is sad that she was busted and is being forced to give him up, but it doesn't mean she will without an effort and a fight. Hopefully her morals and family values will slowly come back.

"I do believe that if W decides to stay it will be for our son's sake and not me or the marriage. But it is my fervent hope that we can use this as a springboard on which to launch our marriage revival. In the meantime I must continue gritting my teeth and taking all the punches."

Answer: It doesn't matter why she stays but if she does it gives you a chance to rebuild your marriage. You will be able to tell if she begins to reconnect with you but it will take months of unbearable pain. Keep courting her but you must accept she will not appreciate you at this time. She will resent you for taking her away from him. Your actions today are primarily for your change to be a better husband. She will gradually see your effort. Be prepared for one day she likes you and the next day she doesn't. She will fight hard inside to keep the Other Love alive.

Dan, Everything I am telling you I lived. My wife told me many times she hated and I just had to take it. My wife is a new person today and has recently began discussing her relationship and feelings during that time to help me better understand how it happened and why it happened.
Personally, I don't think you caused it to happen. Your marriage was probably stale like mine was. THis new and exciting person intruded into our marriage and stole our love away. Now it is your job to steal her back. Use every tool, person, and trick in the book to win her back. Treat it like a war. If you win, your marriage lives, if you lose, your marriage and family dies. Never give the OM or your wife the benefit of the doubt. Do not trust either of them yet be delicate enough that you don't chase her into his arms. I feel your pain by reliving my own experience. My prayers are with you and the kids.

TooSoon

believer - i just can't help taking all these personally. but i will try and take it and just shed a few tears in the quiet of the night.

Toosoon - thatnk you so much for your letter. i truly believe that my tenacity is primarily because of the help i am getting from your advice. it is getting harder everyday but i am bouyed by the hope that your letters give. all is not lost, there will be a light at the end of this tunnel. i just hope that this tunnel is not so long. how i wish that life is a video recorder so you can fast forward the bad bits and put into slow motion the good bits. i "chatted" online with W's friend in canada last night and she confirmed what W told me yesterday that it is W who is the more committed to this A. From her talk to W she reckons that OM is willing to end the A but W can't end it. this breaks my heart but then again i think my heart is already shot to bits one more sharp stab wouldn't matter.
W is more cheerful this morning. When she was monosyllabic yesterday she can now string words together to make a sentence when she talks to me. a sure sign that the A is still on.?! I have asked her friend to talk to W again to reinforce what she has already told her, to end this A so our marriage and family can move forward. To be very honest Toosoon sometimes i think W will never come back to me. i go through the motions but sometimes i just can't see it happening. i better stop this before i dig a deeper hole to sink into.
Thanks a lot believer and Toosoon. God bless you both. I'll let you know how the day went.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by desperatedan:
<strong>Suzet is it normal for a W to be so hard, uncaring and cold towards the BS during an intense affair? how could my W be so different from the person I knew!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since I’ve not been in an intense affair and since my inappropriate friendship with OM stopped while it was still in the beginning phase of an EA, I can’t really answer your question from personal experience. However, from what I’ve read on these boards and from WS’s who were involved in intense A’s, I think your W’s reaction is normal and as believer have said, part of being the WS’s. The “fog” and withdrawal is all part of this temporary change in personality and behavior...

Desperatedan, although my EA was not intense (and thank God it stopped before it progressed any further) the feelings I’ve developed for OM were very intense and because of this, withdrawal was very hard and long for me. But in spite of this, I never stopped loving my H or doubt my feelings for him. However, just after the EA stopped, I was very confused & irrational for some time because of intense withdrawal and “fog”, so in some ways, I can understand why your W behave like this... But if there is No Contact and she can get through withdrawal, the fog will start to lift and she will turn back to her ‘normal’ self and see & think clearly again. This can be a long process and will take time & patience, but it IS possible for your W to fully recover from this ‘temporary insanity’, because this is exactly what it is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Blessings, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Suzet - it is very hard for me to expect at this moment in time that my wife will "recover from this 'temporary insanity'" she has now abandoned all pretense of hiding the affair from me. or "protecting" me from the details. she has told me bluntly that the OM ended the affair sometime ago but she had to reestablish it because she couldn't stay away. boy that hurt like a ten inch knife being twisted through my heart. in fact this morning as we were laying in bed i looked at my wife and asked myself, is she worth all these hurt? she is only too willing now to hurt, humiliate and degrade me,how can i still love her so? because i know that deep inside inspite of all the hurt i still love her and would jump at the chance to once again hug, cuddle, kiss and hold her. suzet it's all too painful. right now i am so low my chest is so tight, i just want to sleep and forget everything. but i must carry on, why? i don't know but i just have.
you said if there is no contact then the fog would lift, but there is contact and i can't see it stopping. should i just give up and tell her i want out????????

Dear desperatedan,

I’ve responded to your question before I’ve read all the other posts of yesterday too… I didn’t notice your W is still in contact with the OM through her ‘secret’ cell phone (the messages she send to him)… I’m sorry if my post seems unsympathetic or ignoring of your pain in any way. I can ‘hear’ your pain and I understand this must be very hard for you… As a FWW I can just pray that I will never ever experience the hurt of betrayal as a BS…

Desperatedan, with my post I was trying to be positive and give you hope…because I know it IS possible for your W to recover from this (although it don’t feel so to you right now).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>should i just give up and tell her i want out????????</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Desperatedan, you are the one living in this pain & uncertainty and only you can decide on this… Only you know how much more you can take…but I know you will also experience pain if you decide to give up on your W…

Desperatedan, all I can say is, you still love your W in spite of everything and in spite of the circumstances & pain she’s putting you through… This is wonderfull... I have such great admiration and appreciation for such unconditional and agape love from BS’s towards their WS’s. I believe only God can put such love in a person’s heart and I believe one day you people will receive a special place in heaven (I mean that).

Desperatedan, I would say, DON’T give up on your W & M, but I think on some stage it might become necessary to move on to plan B if she don’t stop contact with OM. The purpose of plan B is NOT to give up on your W and M, but to try and safe your M and give the WS an ultimatum if necessary. I don’t necessarily say you must move on to plan B yet, but if it become necessary and your W is not willing to stop her behaviour, the more ‘experienced’ Mb'ers around here will be around to give you advice and guidance through this.

I think you still love your W and don’t really want to give up on her because deep down in you heart you know she’s not a bad person…but a good person who’ve made bad decisions and now behave like a bad person because of this...

Prayers to you,
Suzet

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

DesDan: “Thank you so much for your letter. I truly believe that my tenacity is primarily because of the help i am getting from your advice. it is getting harder everyday but i am bouyed by the hope that your letters give. all is not lost, there will be a light at the end of this tunnel”

Answer: I felt no hope so often. I lost 25 lbs, couldn’t eat, and I couldn’t sleep. No matter how much I cared, I received no positive response from my FWW. There absolutely is hope at the end of the tunnel. There are some important steps that need to be taken. The affair is not over today and she doesn’t want it to end. Exposure of the Affair is your best friend. You must contact her parents, her siblings, her supervisors at work and anyone who can influence her, embarrass her, talk turkey with her, etc. Exposure, Exposure, Exposure!!!. She will hate you more before she loves you again. She will threaten to leave you for what you did to her, but you must disrupt the affair. Her boss will know the importance of keeping the two apart from each other. Her parents will pressure her to protect the marriage. You must do these things. Until you do, the affair will likely continue.

I did what you did, I protected my wife so I wouldn’t hurt her reputation. It doesn’t work. I then exposed her to her favorite brother and sister-in-law and our kids. She went through the roof with I hate you. Etc. I then told her to break off her relationship or I will tell your mother, then your co-workers, then your boss. I paid an investigation company money to find out who the OM was and I called the OM’s parents to try and get them to have their son (OM) back away. More pressure came to my wife and I showed her if this marriage was going to end or be ruined, the whole world will know why. My FWW did not want her mother and co-workers to know because of her strong religious and moral values they “knew” she had or used to have. I created fear in her, which added to the disruption of the affair.

I pressured her weekly to quit her job and I expressed it at every MC session we had. I lobbied for the support of the MC every week to help convince my wife that she cannot fix this problem without ending the contact, yet as long as she worked there, contact continued. My FWW “claimed” the A was over but she was not reconnecting with me at all. Long hard days, nights, and months went by and she was not connecting with me. I read books and MB information every day and night. I got to a point where I could predict her next move and I always knew her motives as they unfolded due to the experienced MB people like Suzet and so many others on this board. Buy the book surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. It will help. Most of the information is on this board and Dr. harley has it broken down in his letters. Read and absorb as much as you can. The knowledge will give you power, hope, and most importantly understanding on what your wife is going through. It doesn’t make her actions right, just better understood. When you look at your wife in disgust, understand she probably didn’t set out to fall in love, something along the way broke down within your marriage which created a void in her life. The OM comes along and fills the void. The close friendship she had with him let to sharing her dissatisfaction with you and the marriage. He became a good friend and a good listener to her and the love gradually built one-step and one day at a time. One day she fell in love with him and he with her.

It takes many steps and many days to undo this developed “love affair”. Your wife doesn’t know today that the affair was built on lies and deceit making it impossible to work. In time, with or without your help, the affair will end on it’s own and you will have a chance to win her heart back. With the exposure and your helping support, you can assist the affair in ending sooner. But you must pray for strength, remain committed to saving the marriage for the benefit of the kids, and to know and understand the weakness of your life. She is addicted to him like a junky is too drugs.


“i just hope that this tunnel is not so long. how i wish that life is a video recorder so you can fast forward the bad bits and put into slow motion the good bits.”

Answer: I am sorry but there are no short cuts to speed up the process.

“i "chatted" online with W's friend in canada last night and she confirmed what W told me yesterday that it is W who is the more committed to this A. From her talk to W she reckons that OM is willing to end the A but W can't end it.”

Answer: Ask the Canadian friend to talk with your wife and to have her try and save the marriage. More exposure and more pressure for your wife.

“To be very honest Toosoon sometimes i think W will never come back to me. i go through the motions but sometimes i just can't see it happening. i better stop this before i dig a deeper hole to sink into.”

Answer: Suzett suggested you may look at Plan B at some point in the future. Primarily, Plan B will be that you have your wife move away from you which will give her full access to the OM. Out of Site, Out of mind is what you get. Plan B will help your preserve your love for your wife so you don’t begin falling out of love for her. Once you fall out of love for her, the marriage is over. Do not Love bust with her. Talk to her firmly but in a loving manner. Tell her you exposed her to help others save your marriage, etc.

Dan, There are many bright spots happening that I can see. The married OM sounds like he is not as committed to her as she is to him. Maybe you can send a letter and appeal to him to break up the relationship. Ask him to do it for the sake of the kids. Do not think he is your friend anymore but it puts more pressure on her. So many WS’s go back to their loving mate after they are dumped by their “love of their life”. This is insulting because you win her back by default. But remember, there are no winners, only survivors in these affairs. Push weekly and daily to your wife to do what it takes to stop seeing him completely. She will need to quit her job and you might start telling her this. One day she will realize the need to keep away from the OM so she won’t feel hurt inside when she sees him. None of her actions are about you and the kids, it is all about her and the OM.

When you look at her, try and understand that she is screwed up right now and she is not the same woman you married. Your marriage can be saved but it will be many long months before you begin to see and feel it. It was only recently, that I started to begin to feel like my wife is reconnected to me and recommitted to the marriage and NC for her began in the middle of April and DD was in Jan. It took my wife 4 months after she got caught to begin NC and four more months to reconnect to me after NC. You will go through the roller coaster ride of your life through the recovery period after it begins.

Remember, you must remain strong and in control or the marriage is over. You are the only hope the marriage has today. She stayed home and that is good. Do not give up and accept this fight as the fight of your life. You will become stronger and your wife can and will come back to her old self again in time. Mine did and she put down a deposit on an apartment to leave me forever.

Suzet’s post to you: “Desperatedan, although my EA was not intense (and thank God it stopped before it progressed any further) the feelings I’ve developed for OM were very intense and because of this, withdrawal was very hard and long for me. But in spite of this, I never stopped loving my H or doubt my feelings for him. However, just after the EA stopped, I was very confused & irrational for some time because of intense withdrawal and “fog”, so in some ways, I can understand why your W behave like this... But if there is No Contact and she can get through withdrawal, the fog will start to lift and she will turn back to her ‘normal’ self and see & think clearly again. This can be a long process and will take time & patience, but it IS possible for your W to fully recover from this ‘temporary insanity’, because this is exactly what it is!”

Dan, Suset has been in your wife’s shoes and is telling you it will end in time and your wife will come back in time. I am telling the story being in your shoes and I say you can and will rebuild. Your marriage will never be the same and it can’t be, but there still remains a most-likely fact that you can and will save your marriage. Keep the Faith and fight hard.

TooSoon

Coping with an Affair. Read this link from Dr. Harley. I may help you better understand with his words.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Dan, I have reread Suzet's posts. She speaks with conviction, passion, and remorse. She is trying to help you understand your wife better. I am much colder and matter of fact Men vs. women.....mars vs venus. etc.

I hope today was productive although so few can be at the stage you are at. I remain optimistic for yoursituation. Keep reading all you can> I will check tomorrow for your update.

TooSoon