Dan -

The anti-D's kick in after about 3 weeks. Then you will feel better able to deal with all of this.

Have you thought about telling the OM's wife?

Dan:

I started a new thread named Exposure Of Affairs.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=031896#000008

It was set up for people to post their feelings and opinions on Exposure to help you sort through your inner turmoil regarding Exposure. I hope it helps you take action. Good Luck.

TooSoon

Hi Toosoon,

Yes I will take a more pro-active role. I will no longer sit back and pretend that nothing is happening. I will have to find out how to get in touch with the OM's wife. I don't even know where they live. The next couple of weeks would be crucial. This will really be crunch time. Please pray for me.

Dan - Don't get desperate, just have patience. It is good if you can have some nice talks with your wife. She is getting her emotional needs by texting OM. So time for you to try to meet them if she will let you.

Hallo Dan,

I’ve just read all the posts you wrote and received since Friday afternoon. I’m sorry I couldn’t post earlier. As you probably know by now, I rarely read and response on weekends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dan, since I agree 100% with everything TooSoon posted to you and the advice he has given you, I don’t really have much to add, but there is a few things I want to say:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But first I must respect the one month agreement I made with W. After which if she chooses to stay with me (at this stage I am almost sure that she will, unless all these text messages are about making plans to make the break) then I will insist that the A must end.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, I understand you want to honor & respect the 30-day agreement with your W, but her continuing the A and having contact with the OM was not part of this agreement! Currently she’s not respecting and honoring her part of the agreement so there’s no reason why you can’t take action now and begin to expose the A first to OM’s W, then the bosses, colleagues etc. In my knowledge the agreement between the two of you was that she would have a 30-day period away from work to make up her mind... The purpose of this 30-days away from the work where OM also works, was indeed to not see him or having contact with him to give her time alone to think, but now she still continues the A and contact, so what is the purpose of this 30-day agreement anyway if your W can’t stick to her part of the agreement?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she came back I checked her phone and she had sent a total of 14 messages. I am wondering whether I should just stop checking her phone so I don't get hurt and disappointed. What I don't know won't hurt me.But I still want to know just in case she doesn't send anymore and finally break the A off. Although at this point in time the chances of that happening is 100 to 1.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, you’re exactly right: The chances of her breaking off the A herself is almost zero because she’s in a thick fog and she is very addicted to the OM. It’s because of this (the fog and addiction) she acts so cruel; hurtful; inconsiderate and disrespectful towards you... Dan, it must be clear to you by now that your W is not able to end the A herself… And that is why she needs your help with exposure etc. I see there’s also signs that you may start to fall out of love with your W - you’re only a human being who can only take that much - and that's why I also feel something needs to be done before things get worse…

Believer is right, it take approximately 3 weeks for the A/D’s to kick in. Just remember, with A/D’s you will still experience negative emotions and your daily ups and downs etc. (which is normal), but the A/D's will help you to stay stable and preventing your emotions from spinning out control. You may start to experience side effects from the A/D’s, but this will also be an indication that the A/D’s is starting to work. Most side-effects will fade within 3 or 4 months (as your body starts to get use to the medicine), but if you experience major discomfort from the A/D’s, contact you doctor.

Hang in there Dan and hold on to you strength and to God… I still keep you in my prayers and ask God to provide you with daily comfort and strength... I know you might feel that we put pressure on you again with exposure, but this isn’t the case. We just care about you and your M and want things to get better for you. I hope the thread TooSoon has started for you on “Exposure of A’s” will be of much help and that more people will post there to share their success stories. I think it’s just the thing you might need encourage you to follow through with this difficult & stressful action of exposure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Suzet

<small>[ September 06, 2004, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Hi Guys,

Toosoon - I read with avid interest the thread about exposure that you so kindly opened for my benefit. I don't know, I'm sure you experienced this when you were going through what I'm going through now, but I am scared that exposing the A to the OM's wife might be the excuse that OM have to leave his wife to be with my W! W has said that the OM doesn't love his wife but the wife is so desperate to keep him, she is willing to stay together and just be friends. If this is true, exposure might precipitate their separation and my greatest fear is that if they do, then OM will have the freedom to ask my wife to live with him. Well in the event that she does, there is nothing I can do but hope that the A when exposed to the realities of life will fail, and hope further that W will come back to us. As you can see Toosoon I am still wavering. Can I just wait after the month is over? After all it is only two weeks away. I'm sure that I've said this before but after the month is over if my wife would stay I will have to ask her to end the A. If she prevaricates then I will go into "exposure mode". I know I am not making sense but please humour me and give me the two weeks.

Suzet - thanks for the post. But as you can see from my note to Toosoon I am caught in a terrible dilemna. My head tells me that you are right, but my heart tells me otherwise. So I am working out a compromise between my head and my heart and that is wait another two weeks and then decide which way to go. I'm not that strong as yet to confront my fears. I know it makes no sense in doing the honourable thing and keeping my word while W is not, but I have to make allowances for her, she is in a fog, isn't she? God I am in a fog too, I just wish I do not love my W as much then these things would be so easy to do.

believer - thanks for the kind words. No i wouldn't get desperate (although I am nearly there)but use my reserve of patience and hope to entice W back to my world.

God Bless you all.

dan - Expose to the wife. My WH told me that his OW and her husband had an open marriage. Also when her husband returned from Iraq, WH told me that OW had admitted the A.

Well, it was all not true. They did not have an open marriage, and her husband knew nothing about the A, until I told him.

DesperateDan:

Your wife and the OM are in the driver's seat. What you are attempting to do is disrupt their cozy little plan or plans. My gut tells me that the OM loves his wife and he is lying to your wife so he can have his cake and eat it too. It is a very big move for family men and women to leave their kids, spouses, and security for a lover on the side. I suspect your wife is more in love than the OM. I feel like they are working you for a fool. You must put a stop to it. Of course, you can do what is comfortable for you in your time line. You don't even owe us an explanation. What do you really think is going to happen in two weeks? Absolutely nothing but your anticipation leading to more disapointment and grief. She will be ready to go back to work with a new plan to keep her affair alive. Remember, they become very good at lying to protect their cheating and deceit. Hang in there and good luck. Do not be afraid of fighting Fire with Fire.

TooSoon

Hi Guys,

Inspite of my vacillation I am taking steps to find out how to get in touch with the OM's wife. After the two weeks I will certainly do it if I find out (and I have ways of finding out) that the A is still on.

Thanks for the posts I have to rush I'm off to work.

God Bless

Dan,

I’m glad you’re taking steps to get in touch with OM’s wife. Right now each step (no matter how small) is a step in the right direction and we are here to support you through it all. You’re not alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hopefully the exposure to OM’s W will be enough to break off the A.

Good luck and blessings,
Suzet

Hi Guys,

Another day another dollar as you Americans say. For most of the day I was very down and dejected. But I 've learned to try and lift my spirits up by looking at the bright side. At the moment on the bright side is the fact that W is still with me at home and has given no indication of leaving when the month long moratorium is up. I believe that she cannot leave primarily because of our son who is 14 and is very close to her. So there is a "bright" side. I also believe that given the choice between our son and the OM she will choose our son. I know the biggest challenge lies ahead and that is breaking the A and NC. But I'll cross the bridge when I get to it. Let's get this month over first.

Toosoon, I think you are right when you say she will go back to work with a new plan to carry on the affair. But I am now armed with pages of advice and support from you guys and I will fight fire with fire.

Suzet thanks for the pat on the shoulder.

I know I will need all the help I can get in stopping the A so please standby.

God Bless you all.

Dan:

I think you have come a long way from the beginning. Like I said earlier, this should be called Infidelity 101. Learn as you go and grow one day at a time. I don't know the outcome of your specific case, but the statistics are definately on your side and on the side of marriage. It sounds like you are going to do the things you now know you need to do to help influence the outcome of your case. Taking action to stop infidelity is better than not taking action to stop infidelity, in my opinion.

There is a wealth of information available for us all to read, study, and implement. Read things everyday. I am still amazed at these message boards and the internet and how people from England to America to South Africa can communicate as easily as Suzet, you, and I have so far. I do not mean to exclude anyone else who has posted on this thread.

Another amazing fact is how we are all from different parts of the world with completely different lives, yet we are so similar in so many ways. Even Dr. Harley points out how predictable people are in their secret world of infidelity. People will always be......people!

Dan, research the OM's name, address, and phone number and be ready to contact the OM's wife the first day after the 30 day breather period. Once you do that, have your plan laid out for your wife with your intent to continue the exposure to along list of others. I am talking kids, parents, neighbors, family members, church friends, ministers, co-workers, bosses, and other appropriate parties that would cause embarrassment and humilitaion to both affair participants. You can tell your wife who your list consist of and who you will be contacting next. Every few days, expose the affair to more people. Tell her it will continue till she agrees to stop the affair. Ask the people you contact to please help you save your marriage and ask if they will try and talk sense into either or both parties for the benefit of saving your family. She will not want to explain to her loved ones, family, friends, and others that she lacks morals and family values. I am sorry, but your 14 year old needs to know about mom, or mum as you Brits say.

I can promise you immediate retaliation and threats from your wife as exposure begins. If she is not bothered outwardly, keep exposing her till you get a reaction. Once the reaction comes, it means you are getting to her. Keep the pressure up and take the attitude that if your marriage is over, people might as know why it ended. She knows infidelity is wrong, immoral, and against the Laws of God. You might begin to see her crumble and fall and you must be there to help her with her fall. Be firm but with loving fairness. None of us can pass the test of being completely rightious, nor do we want too be.

Remember, One Day at a time. I think about you all the time and your case reminds me so much of my own case.

TooSoon

Hi Toosoon,

The past couple of days seem to follow a pattern. For most of the day I am very low until about early evening then I start pulling myself out of the hole I am in and slowly get the other picture. I am more convinced that what you said about W going back to work with a new plan is so right. I will change shifts on 4 Oct. and she goes back to work on the 21st of Sept. so there will be a two week gap but when I do get on their shift it will be disruption, disruption, disruption. I am prepared to tell a boss about the A and make sure that W and the OM do not work together. That will only be part of the plan. I will also get in touch with OM's wife and expose the A. Then more exposures.

I have a question to ask though. At the moment I am thinking that one reason why they haven't gone and set up on their own is their fear that if they do so their A would be exposed. If this is the case and I start exposing it, wouldn't this just make it easier for them, i.e. "well, everybody knows now so what's the point in hiding, we might as well come out and live together." Is this sequence of events valid? Or am I running against conventional wisdom here. Please enlighten me on this point.

Toosoon thanks for you time. I am glad that I have somebody who's been through the tunnel and survived.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have a question to ask though. At the moment I am thinking that one reason why they haven't gone and set up on their own is their fear that if they do so their A would be exposed. If this is the case and I start exposing it, wouldn't this just make it easier for them, i.e. "well, everybody knows now so what's the point in hiding, we might as well come out and live together." Is this sequence of events valid? Or am I running against conventional wisdom here. Please enlighten me on this point.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan:

You can never tell exactly why or what their motives are, but we all know it is being done in secrecy. Affairs flourish in secrecy and the WS’s thinks it is the best kept secret in town. For the offending spouses to both pack up and leaves their BS's and the kids of both families is quite a step from sending love notes to each other on the cell phones or blowing kisses to each other in the break room. Fantasy love and the excitement it brings is different than the reality of packing of clothes, divorcing spouses, walking from your kids, dividing furniture, and moving out of the house. Example, my FWW and her BF said to each other how nice it would be for both of them to move to Canada and to get away from the life in the States and away from their “problem” families. It was fantasy romantic talk, at best because neither one was really going to do it.

I kicked my wife out of the house the night I found out she was apartment shopping with the other man and when she left she stayed all night at the OM's house. She told me the next day, she knew she didn't want to be there nor did she belong there. Reality was interfering or intruding into their fantasy affair. My son told my wife if she left me, he would not have anything to do with the OM since he was partial cause of the divorce. That too brought reality into the fantasy affair.

If your wife is planning on leaving you, sometimes it can't be stopped. But, if everybody knows about them, they will we watched by everyone all day long making life and their secret little affair impossible. Everyone will look down upon them because they both just screwed over their spouses and kids. Few want to be looked down on by their peers, family and friends. Exposure will be ugly but it will disrupt their affair, as they know it today. One way both offenders can redeem themselves is to go back to their families with their tails between their legs. It is up to the families to allow them back with strict conditions. The peers, family and friends will forgive them, if you do. That allows for the offenders to be able to redeem themselves to some degree.

If they decide to move forward by leaving you, there is nothing you can do to stop it except by being patient. Their affair will die in time anyway giving you a chance to get her back later, if you want her.

You are attempting to break the fantasy affair by bringing reality to the affair. Reality will cause and bring dissention to the affair, which will cause the spouse to begin to weigh her real life options and compare you with her BF, etc. Be kind and not vindictive during this time. Have faith and go with the proven Dr. Harley MB program.

Hang in there and take it one day at a time. I am thrilled you are coming around.

TooSoon

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

Dan, your question is a result of your fear that exposure will push your W away from you to the OM and this fear is understandable, but I honestly don’t think this will happen. I agree with everything Toosoon posted to you. I have a suspicion that the real reason why your W and the OM haven't gone and set up on their own lives yet is because both of them want their cake and eat it too... Both of them don’t really want to leave their spouses and families but at the same time they don’t want to end the A and give up on each other either, and that’s why they continuing the way they do. Exposure will break this pattern and interfere with their addictive behavior. Dan, keep reading & learning and seeking support & advice. I don’t have much to offer on this stage but I follow you closely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How are you feeling lately (emotionally & physically)? Please continue to take care of yourself and prepare yourself for the difficult time to come.

Hang in there.

Blessings,
Suzet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dan, your question is a result of your fear that exposure will push your W away from you to the OM and this fear is understandable, but I honestly don’t think this will happen. I agree with everything Toosoon posted to you. I have a suspicion that the real reason why your W and the OM haven't gone and set up on their own lives yet is because both of them want their cake and eat it too... Both of them don’t really want to leave their spouses and families but at the same time they don’t want to end the A and give up on each other either, and that’s why they continuing the way they do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan:

I remember my wife telling me she really enjoyed having her secret little life going without anyone knowing it. It was exciting and it was all hers. That follows what Suzet is saying about her cake and eat it to comment.

Your wife's affair can unravel quickly once you kick in your plan. Be prepared for her to try and keep the affair going past the exposure date though.

TooSoon

Hi Toosoon and welcome back Suzet - Today I made the first step towards exposure at the workplace albeit a very small one. I spoke with the boss and intimated to him that my W and I are under a lot of stress and that in fact I am on A/D's. (at the moment work knows that my W is off because of stress, when I told the boss about being on A/D's he asked why and I just said I'm not prepared to answer that yet but you can draw your own conclusions.) He told me to come to him anytime if I need to talk, etc. so the foundation is laid. If the A isn't ended by the end of the month "truce" I'll expose it to the boss.

There has been a couple of innocuous but I hope highly significant developments. The OM has been on Sick Leave since Wednesday for the rest of the week. And then he is on Annual Leave or vacation leave to you, the whole of next week. That in itself is no big deal, but today I rang W from work just to chat and she sounded really down. Tonight when I came home from work she was in bed. Normally she would still be up watching TV or chatting with our children, but not tonight. I will see tomorrow what her mood is, if she is still low, then something is afoot. Either they have fallen out or have said their goodbyes, or they have finalised plans to do something about leaving their spouses. This may all turn out to be a mile off, but my hunch is something is happening. Her self imposed month of navel gazing is up in just over a week and she has to make a decision. I don't know if this is just the A/D giving me a false sense of optimism but I have a strong feeling that W would not leave and that she will choose us (like I said earlier because of our son) over the OM. Watch this space.

I should also mention here that maybe your prayers and mine together with my family (a sister and her husband know, so does that friend from Canada, who are all praying for me) are being heard and answered.

I will update you tomorrow of W's disposition.

God Bless you all.

Very interesting information Dan.

Your wife's mood tells me something is not working smoothly for her at this time. I suspect the OM got busted by his wife or he confessed to her about the affair and his wife lowered the hammer on him. We must hope this is the beginning of the end of the affair and it has just begun with the OM's sick leave. The sick leave could be caused by stress at home over the affair.

Maybe the OM was given an ultimatum by his wife to either knock off the affair or lose his family completely. He may have called your wife and ended the affair today causing her to be depressed.

That is the best case, I believe. Keep us posted.

TooSoon

Dan,

Things sound positive and I’m very glad you had this conversation with your boss. I’m sure it gives you some piece-of-mind and the necessary backup & support you will probably need.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't know if this is just the A/D giving me a false sense of optimism but I have a strong feeling that W would not leave and that she will choose us (like I said earlier because of our son) over the OM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dan, I don’t think you are wrong on this and I certainly don’t think your W’s mood is so low because they finalize plans to do something about leaving with each other. Chances are much, much greater that Toonsoon’s suspicions are right and that the OM got busted by his wife and was given an ultimatum. Let’s hope this is the case.

The other reason your W probably feels so low is because she is in turmoil and feels torn between you and the OM. Her conscience is bugging her. Deep down and while she is in this fog and addiction, she also knows the A and her actions towards you and her family is wrong. In reality she feels stuck and that’s a difficult place to be.

Dan, I think you must trust your optimism, ‘gut’ and ‘senses’ to help you follow through with the exposure if necessary. Stay optimistic and don’t let your fears prevent you from exposing the A if this 30-days period are over and contact has not yet ended. Like I’ve said yesterday, I think your W and the OM want to have it both sides but won’t leave their spouses and families.

I’m working half-day today before I leave off for the weekend, so if I don’t have a chance to check in over the weekend I will be back on Monday to see what has transpired.

Prayers are powerful and can change any situation. Hope, faith and love… Hold on to those.

Take care of yourself,
Suzet

Hi Guys,

Uhmmmmm, I'm not quite so sure this morning. My wife is back to her old self and in fact we had a good talk about nothing. Nevertheless I'm not so despondent because I've been here before (false dawns) and I'm getting used to it. My gut instinct still tells me though that something is afoot. What, I don't know. I also think that the A/D's have kicked in because with everything that's going on around me my senses seem to be cocooned in a "comfort zone" where it doesn't hurt so much anymore and I can be more objective about what I see.
Suzet I am taking care of myself, I'm eating better although I have lost near enough 25 pounds since DDay. I am also getting better sleep without sleeping pills although my doctor has prescribed me a month's worth so I can fall back on them if the need arises. So physically I am getting ready for "battle". Emotionally I have been preparing myself, in fact finding this MB site, and consequently yourself and Toosoon, has been part of my emotional preparations, and my most of all I know that God is with me and would not forsake me. So I'm getting there and let battle commence!

Thanks a lot to all of you, I am better prepared to face whatever comes my way.

God Bless you.