Yup, that's right! I have an appt set up to see the attorney! Wait, let me back up a bit!

Last week WH went on a conference, remember? Well, I found out that he took OW with him! Yup, she stayed in the hotel room all day and waited for him! How sickening is that??? And then another 1/2 day! Unbelievable! I knew she was there as when he called me from the conference, he was all sweet talk...then when he DIDN"T call me at night, I caled him and he was cold and bitter....

I made up my mind after figuring out she was with him that I cant do this anymore! I have got to get on with MY life...So Monday morning I made an appt with the Lawyer for a date which I am not going to expose online!

Sunday he called and left a message stating that he needed the addy to the therapist for Tuesday monring...

I have an infection on an undisclosed spot on my body that was THROBBING on Monday night..[censored], and irritated...I was almost in tears when I called him...He said he was playing pool...of course with OW...He left her at the pool hall, called in a RX for me, drove over here an hour away and delivered it to me...The pharmacy is only 5 minutes up the road from me...he left the RX on the stoop outside! She was not happy about that one!

Tuesday monring he actually shows up to the session...says he does not want a divorce that he does want to work on the marriage cuz he does love me...he says now it is more complicated cuz of the child...he also wants to "keep" the OW, maybe not for sex, but as a companion/friend cuz she is the mom of his child now...

I was adament in my decision that I do not want this OW in my life any longer and I was filing for divorce...WH kept asking for the date..I wont give it to him...

He was begging me not to file..He told the therapist he would tear the papers up, she said that doesn't matter! She says we can work this out..I told her that sure, I would be willing to, but he has to give up OW and he is not willing to do that!

He called me later and told me he wants to come home..he misses us...I said, "well, you aren't really knocking down my door to prove to me anything, are you"...I mean if he really wanted to come home he would have no problem ending it and never look back...call the lawyer when the baby is born...

The OW said that if the baby is a girl she would go on with her life, if it is a aboy she will be at our doorstep, cuz she feels that boys need their fathers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WHAT THE....Can she not SEE what sort of father this man is! Like he is going to be some super hero to HER son and not his own three! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You go girl!

Sounds like he's about to find out what you're made of!

Looks like his cake eating is about to choke him....good for you for taking a stand for YOU!
(and your boys of course).

I can't believe he actually showed up to the counselors...???...did you give him directions or did he find them on his own? I didn't think he'd go.

Keep up the good work!

and when you are choosing out of this chaos...

when are going to stop baiting yourself with nebulous statements.... like...

He called me later and told me he wants to come home..he misses us...I said, "well, you aren't really knocking down my door to prove to me anything, are you"...

it's all become word games
he said
she said

go darker than dark..if he wants to see the kids he can come over you go out or leave the room...

stop the chaos..
stop the badgering and bantering back and forth..

quit listening to a WORD he says or SHE says....
it's all chaos and fog...
and you get sucked right in..

if you are going to file
file
but go darker than dark asap...

momto the way to stop this pain is to quit living it to the extreme extent that you are and do...

ARK

I think you are doing the right thing. You've given ample time. It is time for tough love.

Your H seems so clueless for a smart Doc.
I guess fog will do it to the best of them.

These A's spread from one end of the spectrum to the other in humanity, no one is immune...and one is no better than the other. The scenes may change but the stories are oh so similar.

But by the grace of God go the rest of us.

Edited to say that filing for DV doesn't mean it is set in stone and even if you have to take it all the way you can remarry if and when he wakes up.

You do what you feel you need to do.

In my situation, I got all the legal advice but chose not to file. I set up separation and support without having legal separation in my state. My H agreed to all my terms. I did let him go... all the way to moving in with OW and that is when their bubble finally burst.

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Divorce is an unethical, harmful choice at this time. You haven't put in the work, nor have you done everything you can to save your marriage. Divorce will be extremely harmful for your children and you are choosing that path over the hard work of a respectful, calm, and clear approach to your boundaries.

You are also, by telling your husband about it, making threats and demands. Severe LBs, Mom, and those are not okay.

And the disrespect in this post is off the charts high. I know this is MB where disrespect is much more tolerated... and it's still not healthy. It is harmful.

You've tried and failed at Plan B many times.

Not because of your husband's affair, but because you are not willing to respect your own boudaries and are allowing your emotions to run this show.

You are not doing the right thing.

You are not saving anything.

You are not proving anything to anyone.

You're simply destroying your family.

And I'm sincerely sorry for you, your husband, and OW.... and even more sorry for your three boys and the OC who may be on the way. They need a grownup somewhere in this situation, and it looks like none of you are going to manage it.

I haven't posted to you in a long time, and I doubt I'll post again. Sorry mom. When you're ready to do the work, you know where to find folks who'll support you.

She says we can work this out..I told her that sure, I would be willing to, but he has to give up OW and he is not willing to do that!


cuz she feels that boys need their fathers! WHAT THE....Can she not SEE what sort of father this man is!


Can you see anything a bit "off" with those two
statements...or is it just me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

edit to add: This is some sort of double talk. I have an idea that this is happening alot with you and until it STOPS you are doomed. You are responsible for YOUR actions and I do not see where you have done any real work at saving your marriage. Your threats...your emotions....your AOs...your DJs....belong to YOU and are contributing greatly to this drama you are deeply embroiled in.

JMH (and most likely unwelcomed)O
committed

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Mom,
You went to MB weekend together, he continued the affair. He said he was in no contact and she became pregnant during this time. He refused to give up the NH Job where the OW worked. Blah, blah, blah...

NOW, he wants the OW in his life as well as the OC (whom I am not sure even exists, has there been a test AND a paternity test?)

He says he loves you and does not want you to file for divorce... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I usually advocate doing everything possible to save a marriage, but in your case I do not think that Dad is capable of recovering your's.

Dad knew that continued contact would lead to his marriage failing. He is not being a father to your boys. His head is in his pants now and although you have had trouble maintaining PlanB, I don't see him making any effort at respecting you.

You have said that you are not willing to continue the marriage with any involvement with the OW in your lives and your H says that the involvement with the OW and OC are what he wants.

Go ahead and file, you DESERVE better and you can achieve it.

Mom, mom, mom...
BACK TO PLAN B. Do NOT overreact! He is STILL very deeply in the A. It never ended. He NEVER went through withdrawal. As Ark said, remove yourself. Do another Plan B. Work on yourself.

I said all of this in my post to you yesterday. I am going to post something for you this evening when I have time, but you MUST STOP ALL COMMUNICATION, threats, questions, everything. If you need a Rx, call your own doc. Do NOT give your H a chance to think himself the hero. Maybe OW didn't like it that he delivered it, but so what? He is still with her.

Get off the rollercoaster---you don't have to divorce to do that. The work isn't done. I don't think you will feel ok about divorcing just yet. Plan B.

Go back to SAA, read cover to cover. Call Steve Harley and talk it over. Forget the MC, total waste of money right now. Your H can TALK all he wants and you will get no where in your M. The OW must be out of your lives for anything to improve.

Slow down, be still. Remove yourself from the chaos. NOW.

Mom, while my FWH was foggy, he told me that he would ALWAYS be at least friends with the HW, because she was there for him when nobody else was (um, during the A, when they very much enjoyed each other's company, because neither of them felt judged when they were together, because they were both doing the same "bad" things!). Blah blah blah. Once the H DEfogged, he realized she truly was not his friend, she used him, just as he used her, to fill EN's and the fantasy that took them both out of their, at the time, hum-drum lives.

Everything he is saying to you, all of his actions, are the same that all of us BS's have had to deal with. They are "normal" for him at this stage of his A. As the OW, hers are the same!

I agree with the other posters that if you truly do want to save your marriage, you will have to pick a Plan and stick to it. Plan B is very dark - no phone conversations, no emails, no getting a Rx from him! Good grief, isn't that illegal? And if not illegal, don't you have your own doctor?

Anyway, the point I am making is my FWH disrespected me until the cows came home, too. I was not perfect at the Plan I chose, but each time I fell off that horse, I got back up and put my best attitude out there. My H WANTED a D. I said, fine, then you do it. I wanted my M, and I was NOT going to do that for him. He was going to have to find his ba!!s and go down to that courthouse and file his own self. And he never did.

Just cut him off. You don't need to D him. Go to that attorney appointment and find out your legal rights. Find out if you can get enough $$ to keep your home for you and your boys. Find out about custody. Then, even if he threatens you, you know what reality is.

I feel like you are threatening him with D, to see if you can MAKE him give up the OW. The only thing that can make that happen is love from you, not all this anger and pride. All that your current attitude is showing him is that he DOESN'T want to come home to an emotionally out-of-control woman.

That is when my H came home. When I gathered myself, became my kids' mother again, and made plans to get on with my life BY MYSELF for an undetermined amount of time.

The choice is yours. I just think you are looking at your sitch from the opposite side of the coin that us MBers look at it. Your WH isn't doing anything out of the ordinary for WS's. And the OW isn't doing anything out of the ordinary. Orchid went through this SAME thing with her H, and her M is recovered. It is possible, but not the way you are going about it. IMVHO.

*HUGS* and PEACE. I know you are hurting. We are all just trying to help you see past the pain to what has been shown here on MB time and time again to work.

SS

Mom, mom, mom...
BACK TO PLAN B. Do NOT overreact! He is STILL very deeply in the A. It never ended. He NEVER went through withdrawal. As Ark said, remove yourself. Do another Plan B. Work on yourself.

I said all of this in my post to you yesterday. I am going to post something for you this evening when I have time, but you MUST STOP ALL COMMUNICATION, threats, questions, everything. If you need a Rx, call your own doc. Do NOT give your H a chance to think himself the hero. Maybe OW didn't like it that he delivered it, but so what? He is still with her.

Get off the rollercoaster---you don't have to divorce to do that. The work isn't done. I don't think you will feel ok about divorcing just yet. Plan B.

Go back to SAA, read cover to cover. Call Steve Harley and talk it over. Forget the MC, total waste of money right now. Your H can TALK all he wants and you will get no where in your M. The OW must be out of your lives for anything to improve.

Slow down, be still. Remove yourself from the chaos. NOW.

Hi Mom,

Hmmmm. Lots of talk here, some for divorce, some for toughing it out in Plan B, again.

What do you want, Mom? What is your ultimate goal and how can you best achieve that?

Another poster said she lives in a "no separation" state and was able to set up something akin to it. Perhaps when you have your appointment with your attorney she will be able to advise you if that is possible in Texas. Maybe an alternative would be to set up a separation and visitation schedule, legally, and go dark into Plan B.

But can you do Plan B?

I think you can, mom, but in the early weeks you will have to rely on friends to keep you from making or accepting any contact with dad. And if you fail, you need to tell someone so they can help bolster you. You have to set aside your pride.

Search your heart. Your answers are there somewhere.

~ Snow

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong> The OW said that if the baby is a girl she would go on with her life, if it is a aboy she will be at our doorstep, cuz she feels that boys need their fathers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mom, when Dad relates these type of comments to you there is a perfect opportunity, if done correctly, to chip away at OW's armour.

When he said this incredible quote above, you could have calmly replied, "I don't understand. She didn't feel her own son needed his father in his life and she seems to think it is OK that you leave your three sons. I think she is being dishonest when she says she feel that boys need their fathers."

See what I mean?

~ Snow

Hi Mom,

I'm probably not going to be real popular for what I'm about to write .... and I don't mean to offend anyone, especially you Mom.

I think you, just as much as your WH, are assisting, although not intentionally of course, in perpetuating this affair.

You are a perfect candidate for Plan B, you should be there dark as night and allow this illicit affair to die it's badly needed natural death. But instead you are feeding it drama and keeping it alive as much as your WH.

Post after post I see you participating in his fantasy of two woman by allowing him to come home and leave, come home and leave, Plan A and Plan B, Plan A and Plan B.

Is this threat of divorce yet another iteration of this same back and forth see-saw???!!! Is it only for his benefit to up the stakes? Or are you serious?

I have been in your shoes, and I honest to God know how much this hurts, and how hard it can be to take what the WS dishes out. It's devistating and I'm amazed that we survive it and are still alive .... BUT, you have been given the best advice from so many caring wise people, advice that will help you quit this madness and find some peace, yet you don't follow through.

Please, PLAN B now. And stay dark, if only for your own sanity.

With love and prayers,
Jo

Mom --
I would agree with Resilient. I went into therapy, at my H's suggestion, because I was "psychotic" that he would have lunch with this woman who had propositioned him.

You see, I was the problem, not him. I drove him to have an A.

Plan B is a way for the WS to figure out that what he/she has done is his/her problem, not the BSs.

Would it make sense to go dark for a set period of time each time there is a relapse? I do this with my children. First offense: 5 minutes, etc.
You could boot him out and let him know he is welcome back in a month if there is no contact. If there is contact again, you can set terms, or extraordinary precautions, that are more stringent and then boot him out and let him know he is welcome back in two months. At least then you would have some breathers.

Cherished

Good advice everyone! Plan B does seem to be the best idea, no fence sitting for ANY of you!

Go ahead and see the lawyer and get your financial and custody issues clear. You need to protect yourself and the boys in case the marriage is not saved.

Mom, DO NOT play any more of his games, he wants you both right now. Let him see what his life will be like without you in it at all. DO NOT call him for anything!

Be prepared to file for the D if Plan B does not work, at least you will be able to say you gave it your best shot.

*Do you have any close friends that you can count on for help? It sounds like your surgeries are giving you trouble and you need someone to be available to get meds, drive you etc. if needed.

Prayers to you and the boys, Ladysing

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Would it make sense to go dark for a set period of time each time there is a relapse? I do this with my children. First offense: 5 minutes, etc.
You could boot him out and let him know he is welcome back in a month if there is no contact. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D23B is NOT a child. He's put his W and his children through months and months of torment.

This again..is also JMVHO.....HOWEVER:

Mom.....do what is best for YOU. You need to remove yourself from the CHAOS.

At his point...I think D23B and OW would go to GREAT lengths to stay together. No matter what. You can send a thousand NC letters...you can have every restaining order in the legal system drawn up...and you can make him do headstands for a year...but they are determined to be together...after all..they have this new OC now....or not.

She was with him at the convention...just as I thought...so she is willing to have a relationship that D23B is allowed both women! Don't you see ?

OW "If you need to send me a NC letter to make your W happy, thereby making YOU happy...well I'm all about YOU being happy...so send away..."

Does anyone see where I'm coming from here ?

He is finding different ways to keep both women in his life...and if it's on any terms it has to be...well there you go. Including RX on the doorstep.....well he filled a need didn't he ?

He doesn't get to do this anymore. M23B needs to say..enough.

I agree D isn't always the answer..but let's face it...OW may be bringing a child into the world..and will be fighting tooth and nail for emotional and monetary support. D23B obviously isn't thinking clearly enough to make sure M23B and the 3 boys are being taken care of.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh...but Dad needs to wallow in the chaos by himself. That's really the only way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>......The OW said that if the baby is a girl she would go on with her life, if it is a aboy she will be at our doorstep, cuz she feels that boys need their fathers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WHAT THE....Can she not SEE what sort of father this man is! Like he is going to be some super hero to HER son and not his own three! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What difference what the baby's gender is? Don't all babies require a father and a mother? Me thinks this OW is still playing games. D23b wants to play games also.

The question is mom, do you want to play their game? Or do you want the OW and WS OUT OF YOUR LIFE?

This means you w/b willing to accept an xws or H back in your life, IF that is what D23B becomes. Right now he is one babbling WS fool. Want him as is? I hope NOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Then you need to persue whatever you need to do (plan B or Div). No more words w/o actions. If they come your way, simply direct those words to the tape recorder. Make sure the time and date are on them.

BTW, the OW is wacko. If you can prove she said that about the baby's gender, you may have grounds to prove she is an unfit mother and a total looney. LOL!!!!

L.

Honestly, how do you have NC with a woman that has a child of yours? HAte to day it, but if that child is WH's, you will have to accept some contact FOREVER. Just as it was wrong to start an A in the first place, it would be wrong for a man to abandon a child of his IMHO.

Nope, you don't have to and this is how.

You give up your parental rights..and you privately [but legally and documented] reach a financial settlement..a one time settlement. Then you have no contact. Ever. Not even at birth. You effectively disown this child.

Then you wait..'cause chances are that this kid is going to hunt you down someday, and want to interrogate you about your abandonment.

This is when you say..."I'm sorry that the circumstances surrounding your birth were so shamefull..this reflects on your mother, and I..not you. My relationship with your mother was cruel and disgracefull. In order to salvage my marriage I chose to give her up permanently, and you with her. I apologise for my part in bringing you into such awful beginnings, however, my primary regret is what I have done to my wife and our children together. I would not choose differently if faced with it again..I would choose not to have had the affair in the first place. I'm aware that this is completely unacceptable to you..it is unacceptable in every way..I'm so sorry for all of the destruction I have been responsible for."

Is this harsh and cruel to an innocent child? Absolutely. The thing being missed here, is that by having the affair, and creating the child..he has created a situation in which he will have to be cruel to one family, in order to be faithfull to the other. Someone is going to bleed..and he has children with each woman. One or the other will likely be abandoned. It is the way of things. Can't serve two masters and all that. So hypothetically, it can be done..it just isn't likely. What is likely is that neither woman and none of his children will get much from him anyway..he doesn't seem to be concerned with much besides his own pleasure..perhaps the abandoned child/ren will actually be the more fortunate one/s.

I do agree that it is wrong to abandon a child..is it wrong to continue a relationship with said child under the nose of your BS? Yep..Wrong for your children to have to deal with this..yep. No good answers here. Only complications. I would be out in a hot minute if there were an OC, no matter what the other circumstances were...an OC just adds so much flavor to the punch so to speak..because most people are willing to be passively cruel, but not actively, not even when it might be for the best for all concerned. Draconian measures? Yes, but what would be a better idea? More contact with OW via her child? Getting attached to a child while trying to have a lifelong NC with it's mother? Leaving your wife and the kids you already have in favor of a new family?
No good answers. No fun. No doubt they [WS @ OW] are giving this entire scenario less consideration than we here on this board...ah..the smell of decay..it permeates the air, they call it love.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You go girl!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks married! No I did not give him directions, just the address! I was surprised he showed too...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and when you are choosing out of this chaos...

when are going to stop baiting yourself with nebulous statements.... like...

He called me later and told me he wants to come home..he misses us...I said, "well, you aren't really knocking down my door to prove to me anything, are you"...

it's all become word games
he said
she said

go darker than dark..if he wants to see the kids he can come over you go out or leave the room...

stop the chaos..
stop the badgering and bantering back and forth..

quit listening to a WORD he says or SHE says....
it's all chaos and fog...
and you get sucked right in..

if you are going to file
file
but go darker than dark asap...

momto the way to stop this pain is to quit living it to the extreme extent that you are and do...

ARK
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you Ark! I am going to take your advice and do it! Yes, I am serious about filing now! But in the meantime, I am going dark...I will explain later in this post! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are doing the right thing. You've given ample time. It is time for tough love.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he has had more than ample time and more than enough chances! How much more pain am I supposed to endure?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Divorce is an unethical, harmful choice at this time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And having an extramarital affair ISN"T unethical?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You haven't put in the work, nor have you done everything you can to save your marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">REALLY? I think I have done more than enough, including letting him live in the same house as me for months allowing him to have contact with this woman, because of the OC. I've done more than everything I can except walk thru fire! I have given him many chances..I could Plan B him for months...for what? so he can see this OW for the entire time, then end it with her, then come home, only to fall pray to her again and again...sorry, I cant do that J!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Divorce will be extremely harmful for your children and you are choosing that path over the hard work of a respectful, calm, and clear approach to your boundaries.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, having my children have to witness their father cheat on their mother is extremely harmful for them! I am choosing the path that will protect me and my children from further harm caused by my WH! He is the one who refuses to respect any boundries...I have made my boundries very clear and he disrespects them...how much am I supposed to take from this man...until I have nothing left in me..I am young and vibrant..I have so much to offer a man who will accept me. this man obviously doesn't want me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">making threats and demands </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How on earth is informing him I am filing for divorce a threat or a demand? I have an appt and I intend to do it...YOu dont get it do you? This man has abused me for months now! I refuse to live in this hell hole any longer!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And the disrespect in this post is off the charts high. I know this is MB where disrespect is much more tolerated... and it's still not healthy. It is harmful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wel, I suppose I could just be disrepectful to his face! Shall I do that? Would that be better than coming to a board where I am SUPPOSED to let off my steam and anger INSTEAD of to my WH? How is talking to a BOARD being disrespectful? That makes no sense to me? I have a feeling, I come HERE to post it instead of YELLING at my WH and I get slammed...this happens every single time I post! WHY? Do you tell all the ohther posters who are yelling at their WH's on this board they are being disrepectful? NO, I never see it! I see people slamming their spouses all over the place, but yet I am the only one who gets slammed here!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've tried and failed at Plan B many times.

Not because of your husband's affair, but because you are not willing to respect your own boudaries and are allowing your emotions to run this show.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I AM human...I have many emotions..I am a very sensitive person...very emotional...very caring...very loving...sorry but that is just the way I am! I have a HUGE heart! Even for the people who hurt me!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You're simply destroying your family.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, I am not destroying my family! My husband is doing that! My HUSBAND is destroying this family! NOT ME and dont ever tell me that again! I am saving what I have left!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't posted to you in a long time, and I doubt I'll post again </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry you feel this way Just J!

committedandlovingit ...I am sorry, I dont understand where you are getting at???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Go ahead and file, you DESERVE better and you can achieve it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for your support ladysing

Thank you Anne!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you want, Mom? What is your ultimate goal and how can you best achieve that?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Snow, We all know what I WANT!!! But that isn't going to happen!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But can you do Plan B?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, I cannot do a Plan B! You know the reasons! Our son's, we have counseling sessions to attend toghether for them, etc...And yes, I am WEAK at Plan B! I cannot do a Plan B! I've tried...I cant do it! Some people just cant do it! And I am one of them! Sorry!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The only thing that can make that happen is love from you </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This hasn't worked either!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All that your current attitude is showing him is that he DOESN'T want to come home to an emotionally out-of-control woman. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not true! The reason I kicked him out was BECAUSE Of the anger I was feeling on a daily basis! I do not want to be angry with him all the time! he didn't want to leave..He has begged me to come home to his family! Bla, bla, bla!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "I don't understand. She didn't feel her own son needed his father in his life and she seems to think it is OK that you leave your three sons. I think she is being dishonest when she says she feel that boys need their fathers."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said something very similar to him...i wonder why girls dont need their fathers anyway? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I always needed MY father! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this threat of divorce yet another iteration of this same back and forth see-saw???!!! Is it only for his benefit to up the stakes? Or are you serious?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I am dead serious! I am NOT threatening!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Would it make sense to go dark for a set period of time each time there is a relapse? I do this with my children. First offense: 5 minutes, etc.
You could boot him out and let him know he is welcome back in a month if there is no contact. If there is contact again, you can set terms, or extraordinary precautions, that are more stringent and then boot him out and let him know he is welcome back in two months. At least then you would have some breathers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yea, this worked out real well! He was booted out, in 5 minutes he called OW and was with her within the hour! NO, he cannot go without contact with the OW if he is out of the house!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> *Do you have any close friends that you can count on for help? It sounds like your surgeries are giving you trouble and you need someone to be available to get meds, drive you etc. if needed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish I did...and yes, I have an infection in my right breast! It is killing me! I have a one inch open wound and it hurts like the devil!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> D23B is NOT a child. He's put his W and his children through months and months of torment.

This again..is also JMVHO.....HOWEVER:

Mom.....do what is best for YOU. You need to remove yourself from the CHAOS.

At his point...I think D23B and OW would go to GREAT lengths to stay together. No matter what. You can send a thousand NC letters...you can have every restaining order in the legal system drawn up...and you can make him do headstands for a year...but they are determined to be together...after all..they have this new OC now....or not.

She was with him at the convention...just as I thought...so she is willing to have a relationship that D23B is allowed both women! Don't you see ?

OW "If you need to send me a NC letter to make your W happy, thereby making YOU happy...well I'm all about YOU being happy...so send away..."

Does anyone see where I'm coming from here ?

He is finding different ways to keep both women in his life...and if it's on any terms it has to be...well there you go. Including RX on the doorstep.....well he filled a need didn't he ?

He doesn't get to do this anymore. M23B needs to say..enough.

I agree D isn't always the answer..but let's face it...OW may be bringing a child into the world..and will be fighting tooth and nail for emotional and monetary support. D23B obviously isn't thinking clearly enough to make sure M23B and the 3 boys are being taken care of.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh...but Dad needs to wallow in the chaos by himself. That's really the only way.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you very much betrayedinnj! I couldn't agree with you MORE!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What difference what the baby's gender is? Don't all babies require a father and a mother? Me thinks this OW is still playing games. D23b wants to play games also.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ME TOO!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question is mom, do you want to play their game? Or do you want the OW and WS OUT OF YOUR LIFE?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO and YES!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BTW, the OW is wacko. If you can prove she said that about the baby's gender, you may have grounds to prove she is an unfit mother and a total looney. LOL!!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OOOOHHH! thanks!

[q]Is this harsh and cruel to an innocent child? Absolutely. The thing being missed here, is that by having the affair, and creating the child..he has created a situation in which he will have to be cruel to one family, in order to be faithfull to the other. Someone is going to bleed..and he has children with each woman. One or the other will likely be abandoned. It is the way of things. Can't serve two masters and all that. So hypothetically, it can be done..it just isn't likely. What is likely is that neither woman and none of his children will get much from him anyway..he doesn't seem to be concerned with much besides his own pleasure..perhaps the abandoned child/ren will actually be the more fortunate one/s.

I do agree that it is wrong to abandon a child..is it wrong to continue a relationship with said child under the nose of your BS? Yep..Wrong for your children to have to deal with this..yep. No good answers here. Only complications. I would be out in a hot minute if there were an OC, no matter what the other circumstances were...an OC just adds so much flavor to the punch so to speak..because most people are willing to be passively cruel, but not actively, not even when it might be for the best for all concerned. Draconian measures? Yes, but what would be a better idea? More contact with OW via her child? Getting attached to a child while trying to have a lifelong NC with it's mother? Leaving your wife and the kids you already have in favor of a new family?
No good answers. No fun. No doubt they [WS @ OW] are giving this entire scenario less consideration than we here on this board...ah..the smell of decay..it permeates the air, they call it love. [/q]

AMEN! Thank you noodle!