SS:
"I can't affect what your W does, or what she thinks. You can affect both, but not directly."
That's true. Even more important in these kinds of sitches, recognizing that I shouldn't really even WANT 2 affect her indirectly is useful. Like the value of the WS ending contact because they wanted 2, rather than because they were threatened or coerced.
"Now, when an A happens, or when contact continues the natural response is to say "the He$$ with it" and ~ get even ~. I suppose what I am trying to say is that you are a better man that that. I think we are happiest when we do things that make us happy, not things that cause regret."
Very definitely. When I called Penny earlier 2day, I told her how ashamed I was for succoming 2 my own emotional rollercoaster dip - right at the same time my W succomed 2 hers. It's really funny, in a way, looking back at those over the past 2.5 years. 2 bad they cause so much harm. Penny made me feel a bit better about the times I was doing so well in the past, even when they were followed by some serious explosions. I am a better man than that. And I get even better when I don't let the backsliding events ruin the progress I make personally before. Add the good stuff, chalk the bad stuff up 2 experience.
"BTW, I don't think exposing RM to his coworkers is petty and mean, I think your W would think that. If Penny advises it, go ahead, but she is the one that you ought to listen to on exposure."
I talked 2 her about this, including what I was saying here and what we talked about a while back when the "temporary NC" deal was made. She agrees that exposure isn't necessary. She agrees that my W's A has been over, and that's why exposure isn't necessary. She also agrees, though, that if it's "okay" for my W 2 remain friends with RM and stay in contact, then it should be okay for me 2 contact him myself. Maybe invite him 2 dinner sometime (not soon: he wouldn't survive! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). There may be a desire on her part 2 visit him again next year if her class goes on a field trip like the last one. I will deal with that as the time approaches, and will be much more "on the table" than I might have appeared 2 have been this last time.
"You are very sentimental. I am too, I recognize it in other guys If I know them well. I don't think it is bad, in fact, I think it is good."
I'm "proud" of that trait, if that's appropriate.
"If you listen and try to understand what is going on in her mind,
When she winds down, You can respond respectfully if something comes to your mind, but I suspect most of the time she is just venting. Especially tell her how you feel."
Definitely. Yes2rday was hard, because we were both upset when the argument started. But I consider myself a good listener most of the time these past 2 years.
""I feel ashamed that I didn't do a better job of things a long time ago when you first began having problems - I wish things were different.""
I've said these exact words many times, including the past few days. Penny was great when I'd mention things I've said or done in the past 2.5 years - she'd ask: Did you say that in the last 7 days? Point being, we 2th remember and filter what we remember and filter. It almost doesn't even matter what was said in the deeper past - not just because we can't change the past, but because we all have different memories of it.
"Note that I am not sure of what she is saying, I am just giving some generic responses - you have to think about this quite a while so you can come up with some good responses."
Indeed. I don't even always hear what she's saying, or understand it. Like one of my favorite 2uotes: "I know you believe you unders2d what you think I said, however I'm not sure that you realize that what I think you heard is not what I meant."
"Think in terms of your feelings - the ones you bury because they keep getting hurt. Tell her those feeings."
Exactly what Penny said.
"Now I want to say that I think she ought to be doing most of the work, but REMEMBER - we - you and I, can't change your W. If this is 99% her fault, and 1% your fault, all you can do is work on the 1%, or you can leave."
True. During the past 7 days ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), I said 2 my W: "It doesn't matter who's fault it was that we withdrew from each other and you had an A. In fact, if it will make you feel better, consider everything my fault, INCLUDING the A. We still have the same growing 2 do." And she agreed. We "dwealt", though, because we were both on the low. We had a great discussion about the "drama" creeping up on us, during the convos last week, but when you're enmeshed in the drama, it's hard 2 think and speak clearly and thoughtfully.
"I AM NOT suggesting you have done a bad job, or that you screwed up. I just don't know a better way to help, so I suggest things for YOU to try. Being tired often limits our responses."
But being tired doesn't lessen our responsibilities. That meaning, our responsibilities 2 grow personally. I can only do my own growing, though, and hope it's interesting enough 2 my W that she'll do her own. Talked 2 her about that in the past 7 days, 2!
"Again, I don't think using Harleys suggestions to stop an A are getting even, but your coach is the one to listen to here. She has a better feel for what is needed next than I do. I think she can get inside your W's head better than you or I can, and I think she will make the best call."
Which was not 2 expose more at this time, precisely because the A is over. For my W, maybe not RM's wishes, which makes it remain a bit delicate for me. But I think Penny undersands my W's thinking and how 2 deal with it better than I do.
"What I worry about is that you have done increasinly well for 2.5 years, and now you are getting tired. Anger is a natural response, but it is not what works best. What I want to see here is for 2long to become the best 2long he can possibly be - no matter what his W chooses."
So does Penny. So do I.
"I see a 2long that can return loving words instead of angry ones, that can say words that bring peace instead of turmoil, words that calm instead of stir up."
My W sometimes does that, 2. I think she's getting some of that out of her IC sessions.
"I don't know for sure, but I think that's where you need to be for this to work. If it doesn't, isn't that where you want to be anyway?"
Yep.
-ol' 2long
