Top ten " why I am hanging in there" List:

1: I still love the girl. Despite her very best efforts to empty the love bank, I still have enough love for her to try to win her back.
2: My kids : My kids love their Mom and their Dad. Its absolutely best for them if Mom and Dad stay together and HAPPILY !
3: God gave us to each other on our Wedding day : I DO believe that. If let this this OM 'man' tear our M asunder I am breaking my vows to God and Man.
4: The OM is a serial womanizing reptile who does not deserve the love of a woman like my WW. If I am to lose her, it must be to a decent man, not this pond life.
5: She loves me: She's just forced herself to forget that for a while.

Can't do better than 5 sorry. Pretty good five tho' ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>
And some of you are telling me I can't VENT on here ?

Its luckly I haven't STRANGLED her !!!!

That was hyperbole BTW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BOB YOU ARE A GOOD MAN...and a GOOD DAD!

I feel your pain...my W is way too lenient in maintaining boundaries as well. She chooses to be everyones FRIEND...they need a MOM more than a friend. Now the chickens are comin home to roost.

Your W needs a REALITY CHECK....

Please continue your vent...it's cheaper than BAIL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bob,

Take an opportunity to practice Radical Honesty and POJA negotiation to come up with an agreement on how to handle the kids with bedtime. Brainstorm---suggest that they sleep in the living room with cookies and scotch and fall asleep 'whenever'. Or maybe they're in their beds at 7 pm sharp, no exceptions. Get her to make suggestions. Listen to them. If you disagree (or have an issue), ask something to the effect of "how do you think that DD will respond it if this happens?" See if you can lead her through the whole issue.

And this is an issue that my wife and I have had to tackle together---and we do much better than we used to (and your inner monologue sounded very familiar to me...).

Anytime you can demonstrate how the MB stuff works by example will help your cause.

K it won't work yet. My WW lies every chance she gets to me and everyone else about absolutely everything. Lying has become her first instinct and recourse. She is a liar.

She scores point off me with her revisionist histories. Shes trying to justify her selection of another man to herself.
She wouldn't even laugh at the suggestion of a poja right now. It is beneath funny to her.

Bob,
I think it's better for you to vent here than to your W. I will always be here to listen to your venting. Get it out!!!!! Coming to this site helps me get through the day and I like knowing that I can come here and get out my frustrations. You are a good person Bob.....hang in there!!

Bob - I loved the vent, it is good to get that out every now and then.

And remember, even vets, who may think other wise, are NOT qualified therapists, but just others who have suffered just like us.

Pssst Bob!!!

I loved your vent ...it really described my feelngs and made me laugh at myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> maybe one needed to be fellow Brit to appreciate the humour <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Well done <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

kloe:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I loved the vent, it is good to get that out every now and then.

And remember, even vets, who may think other wise, are NOT qualified therapists, but just others who have suffered just like us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you know I'm not a board-certified therapist?? (I'm not).

If you go talk to many certified therapists and psychologists, especially those involved in behavioral and cognitive behavioral approaches---you will find very few that say it is productive to tear down your spouse when angry---whether done by writing on an internet board, complaining with friends, or doing it directly to their face. You will find many of these therapists recommending an alternative outlet for this anger, usually in the form of physical exercise. This is a fact, supported by several studies showing the damage of this type of behavior (because you're learning "bad" behaviors and conflict avoidance by repeating venting whenever you are upset). You might not like this---but it's true.

Bob---does your wife have a heavy bag that you could practice on? Maybe she could help teach you?? (And no, you can't paste her picture on it...). That would be an excellent way to work out some of this.

Bob Pure - I'm going to have to "side" with K on this one at the risk of incurring your wrath because there are more issues involved here than simply your right to feel the things you feel and to decide where, or to whom, you wish to broadcast those feelings.

Understand Bob, we have all had those thoughts, so we understand what you are feeling and we also know the desire to "shout if from the rooftops." But again, there are other issues that you might want to think about.

1. There are a lot of people struggling with various stages of recovery here, and a vent such as that, while it might feel good momentarily to you, can also be very hurtful to others who "identify" with your pain and struggle. Think of all the other Former Wayward Spouses, especially those in the early stages of recovery, and it's not a great leap to think that the choice of words and vehemence of your vent could really hurt them and potentially add delay to THEIR healing process. Think of the struggling Betrayed Spouses who feel close to "throwing in the towel" and who could interpet such a vent as a sort of catalyst..."see, others feel the same way, so out goes your butt!!!"

2. As the old saying goes, "garbage in, garbage out." You ARE what you think and you need to be careful to not let your mind begin to think in "vents" or "vent-like" language. YES, you have been severely wronged, so the anger is most understandable, even justified. But what I am trying to say is that you have to acknowledge those feelings but NOT let them come out of your mouth (or fingers) because they are damaging and not helpful to you, your wife, or to possibly others who are emotionally vulnerable also.

3. Yes, you have a "right" to be as angry as you wish. You have a "right" to be as sarcastic as you wish. You have a right to Victorian humor, Elizabethan humor, any form of humor you want. But as one who seems to hold God in great esteem, it would also behoove you to consider God's admonition about "righteous anger." "Be angry, but in your anger do not also sin."

One of the hardest things for a BS do is to NOT give in to the negative feelings. It IS hard to acknowledge them and feel them AND still not allow them to control you and your actions.

The objective of a restored marriage is what needs to remain in the focal point of your mind and your thoughts and actions need to be "measured" against that goal to determine if they are helpful or harmful to recovery. Believe me, we have all "slipped" and said things we later regretted. Here on MB we even occasionally use the "MB 2x4" when it seems appropriate to help get someone to THINK about what they are doing.

It is the THINKING that is often the hardest, because the emotions are so raw and the nerves strung so taught, that it is easy to let our emotions take control and we "feel good" while letting them "be responsible" for what we might say or do. Later on, though, we often regret some of those words and actions because we recognize their potential for more harm than good.

Believe it or not, Bob, it's also hard for those who have "been around" for a while, even if they have recovered their marriages, to hear others undergoing the same craziness and emotionally ripped feelings that are NOT forgotten. The difference, if you will, is that we've gotten to the point where it's not so raw, but don't believe for one minute that we've "forgotten."

While your anger is understandable and the vent "felt good," ask yourself if the words you used to describe your wife are how you really perceive her and think of her. If they are, your recovery task may be a lot harder than you think right now. If not, then be very careful with "entertaining" those thoughts on the basis of "it felt good, so I did it." That's running a parallel track to Wayward Spouse "type" thinking.

It IS unfair, Bob, but YOU have to remain the rational one through these crazy times for the sake of your wife, your children, and yourself. It IS hard, but if your goal is "worth it" to you, then you DO what is necessary no matter how hard it seems to do at the time.

Love, honor, and cherish. And banish the thoughts that degrade and dishonor. Make that your promise to yourself.

God bless.

ok, wait a minute, folks. I enjoyed the rant just as much as anyone else, but if K came on my thread and offered his advice, I would definitely listen up and keep an open mind.

He has been doing this for YEARS and doesn't say things lightly. Most here have great confidence in him, and that is from long experience in watching him help MANY people over the years. He is no lightweight and anyone should feel grateful to have him post on their thread.

Please don't look a gift horse in the mouth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you will find very few that say it is productive to tear down your spouse when angry </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I was under the impression that as long as the types of things Bob said in his original post, on a thread with (vent) in the title, was "allowed" on this site. And really, it is "allowed," because he posted it! And no moderator has locked this thread, so it must be OK.

Now, if he had come on this thread without the (vent) in the title, and had actually said that he just got done verbally lashing his WW with his "Top Ten" list, it would be a totally different ball game, wouldn't it?

Bob never said it WAS OK to say these things to his WW (even though he would LIKE to). That was his entire purpose to come here and ~VENT~ to us his frustrations and anger.

In fact, on Momto3boys' thread earlier, a very big point was made about venting here on MB vs. saying LBs and DJs to the person's face. It was even suggested that if an MBer is venting, so there is no misunderstanding, to put (venting) in the topic title, as was done here.

I understand the caution, but you already said it once - I don't think you are going to change his mind about his vent!!!

Anyway, I did want to tell you, Bob, that I understood your humour (even though we spell it RIGHT over here - humor) in your list, and I was able to identify with so many of the feelings I had when I was at your stage, in pain. And I also remember at that time, my FWH had NO clue that his behavior was affecting his children, that they cried themselves to sleep each night, and neither of us could manage to "discuss" any type of parenting issues.

I understand you are doing the best you can in a very difficult situation, and right now you are your kids' only chance for stability and security. Hang in there, and continue to use your humor as a coping mechanism. That is what saved me.

At one point, some of us who were in the same stages, made up a game. I think CV55 made it up, and called it the infidelity game, or recovery game, or something like that. For your show of humor today in the face of great frustration, I say you get to move ahead 2 spaces, AND collect $200.

SS

ForeverHers has very good points, too. I didn't think of what other people (i.e. WS or FWS early into recovery) would think. I can see the issue from both (all) sides.

Unfortunately, sometimes, these things just have to come out! And I would like to think that the MB discussion forum is a safe place for that. Especially since when some members actually SAY those things to their S's, we tell them to vent here, rather than say them out loud! Because I did read that advice from several members just today on the thread I mentioned in my earlier post.

BUT, I do not want to be in the middle of a conflict, because that is just the way I am. So, I will only lurk here from now on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

This has all been interesting. I must say as a totally recovered FWW this didn't upset me in the least but early on in recovery I used to avoid any thread from a BS that had "vent" in the title.

As I said before, my H actually said all those things to me before we'd discovered MB. He didn't exactly spit them at me but, boy, there was anger. I've put all that in the past, just as he's put all my pathetic foggy sayings in the past.

It was a tough time but we don't dwell on it.

I can see what K's saying and I must say our MC said the same thing. She also wouldn't allow ME to say one foggy thing. She didn't stop me, she just used to move me gently off the subject and on to the real subject, saving our marriage and reinforcing our love banks.

Jen

Dear Bob...

If it comes down to these choices for you:

1. posting a vent on MB

or

2. wrapping ~another~ sports cars around a tree

PLEASE~~~ come here and vent!

And sure, you DO have other choices, but sometimes it doesn't appear so from your perspective, we understand.

I think you are doing pretty darn good for the amount of time you've been here... pretty darn good.

Praying for your family Bob. Also praying for your broken heart.

Pep

Well, in my almost four year journey through the end of my marriage, and my almost three years on this board, I can say that venting on paper, or here on the boards can be very, VERY healing.

Better to spew out that anger in a 'safe' place than LB your butt off to the WS.

Many times I have wanted to vent at the X. Sometimes I did. But the actions that brought me the most healing were journaling, venting here and to friends and family and ALSO distractions, such as physical activity. On the journal, one day I sat down and wrote 11 straight pages on the pc. I was exhausted and drained afterwards, but you would not believe the burden that was lifted from me that day.

I believe that anger left inside can be much more destructive in the long run. It is debilitating and festers until it is out of control. Avoiding that feeling does not make it go away. It HAS to get out. I have done a LOT of counselling over the years, and not one of my counsellors told me NOT to let it out in a safe way.

Vent here to your heart's content Bob. It is going to help to release it. Believe me. And as humans, we do need validation for the way we feel, and since the WS can make that impossible, it is seeked elsewhere, like here.

The best advice my heart ever gave me was this

"You have a RIGHT to be angry. What the X did to you and the kids was cruel, selfish and unwarranted."

With every right, there comes responsibility. The fact that we have a right to be angry does not give us the right to vent it at the person who caused it, but gives us the responsibility to deal with it in a way that releases the pent up feelings and STILL do it in a safe and responsible way.

I think using humour and venting combined on the boards is one of the safe ways for many of us. It provides a safety valve. We not only get it out, we receive validation for the crappy feelings we feel, and are able to feel justified for these feelings being part of us. It DOES not mean we then go ahead and act on those feelings and ruin our lives, and I think Bob knows that.

Lost Husband once said to me "Take the high road." It has been my mantra ever since. I have acted like a lady in most dealings with my X, and I know I did everything I could in that marriage and afterwards to keep on that high road. That phrase stopped me from venting at the X. Not that I think that Bob WILL speak to his wife like that, but just in case it does occur to you Bob...remember "Take the high road"....and come here to vent.

Love and light,

Jacky

bump this up due to the fantastic rant

* breathe iiiiiiiiiiiiN ! .....Breaaaaatheeee oooooooooout SHHSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ! *

ahhh ! Thats better.

I have to find a strategy to recover from the kids bedtime potential LB tonite. My WW is manipulating my son against me, BUT I cannot allow his unruly behaviour to be considered to be acceptable. He starts school in 2 weeks and will have to adopt a new regime of third grade discipline and it will come as a shock if he has no boundaries at home.
Nor can I allow my WW to deliberately choose one child over another (she accused me of being mean to our SS while she sent our DD to bed crying - I had to recover that) in order to reinforce her opnion that I am a bad Dad.

Any ideas ?

Bob,
I feel for you. My H is telling me that because I am hurt and crying that I am making our son insecure! OH MY GOD!!!! He is the one that left the house and is causing ALL of this! He's lost hi f******g mind! I am the one that is here taking care of our son and making sure he is happy and safe.
You just keep doing what you are doing. It's just so unfair that our WS can treat us like this and blame us for their mistakes.
You keep you head held high and take care of your kids. They will respect you for it in the end!

Bob - Not all therapists think letting it out is bad. In fact my IC said one of my problems was I was too nice and needed to get some of these negative thoughts out. He encouraged a journal to write these things down so you don't keep them bottled up. I usually felt so much better and stopped obsessing on negative thoughts once they were released.

So if venting makes you feel better, then go for it!

Bob Pure,

I LOVED the vent. I found it incredibly entertaining. In fact I read it twice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Keep in mind, I'm sick, wrong and twisted, and my sense of humor (humour - that is so cute) gets me in trouble all the time.

I think you did a great job expressing yourself to those of us who chose to read you, instead of lashing out at your WW.

No LB for you.

I'm going to get me a Bob Pure Fan club T-shirt, and where it proudly.

Excuse me, I'll need a Medium, in Pink, please, thank you.

KY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />