LostSailor,
I'm at work, and not much time...but, find herself means try to find a way to continue the affair.

Anyone that seeks to leave accountability is turning from the light. Give her nothing to leave. No consent, nothing.

I will expand later tonight.

Don't give her money sailor boy - get counseling from the Harley's or Penny now. NOW. You are at a critical point. It would not be good for her to move out.

Penny posts on the Just Found Out forum as Cerri. She gives great advice. Check it out, then get some phone counseling right away.

Instead of you giving her the money, why don't you go to the bank and take what you don't want her to have access to and let her go to the bank for whatever she needs when she needs it (is her name on the account?)If she has no account with her name on it, that is most interesting.

Then, you could put your half of the money in a seperate account. You could always recombine accounts later on.

This way she can get to it without you handing it over to her.

Does that make sense?

Pickles....That does make sense. Certainly adds a new twist and still enables WW to make the decision - good or bad! Yes, everything we have is joint. I mean everything. I have now become one of the folks in Dr Harleys book about thinking your relationship is affair proof. I did open my own account in preparation for the 1st move out and subsequent Plan B. Didn't have to use it and quite frankly, I'm thinking about canceling it because it's the same bank we have our Brownie account in. Some unsuspecting soul may say "hey, looks like you now have three accounts". I'm basing that on if WW opens her own separate account, it'll be at that bank. Thanks for the advice.

Believer.....First time I had a NOW thrown at me. Startled me into posting in Just Found Out immediately. I don't want to screw up what has been my savior over the past month -MB and you guys....Looking forward to more advice/assistance with this.....

RookKev....I look forward to you post....

Thanks so much and God Bless.....Doorbell is ringing.....Be right back......

I think there's consensus here - her moving out is counterproductive; you "helping" her move out is also counterproductive - for different reasons.

With the given fact that you cannot, nor should not, try to control her, it may be best to be patient and continue Plan A into withdrawal, but prepare for a legal separation IF she decides to leave. I don't think she will, but she might. THEN - if she does, DO NOT deny her the opportunity to experience the consequences of her decision. She gets her fair share of your liquid assets - no more - and then fends for herself in the real world. In the meantime, you also seek advice on whether Plan B should be implemented upon her departure and securing of a separation agreement.

The different reasons for her not moving out and you not helping her are - if you haven't already figured it out - you cannot control her and you should not deny her the consequences of her decisions; but your "help" to do so 1) is counter to marriage building; and 2) helps validate her decision to do so, thus lessening the consequences attributed to herself, i.e, she can't blame you for the mess she'll find herself in.

JMHO.

Make sense?

WAT

LOST,

First let me say, I'm still new to MB principles,though I've been reading much information here, a great deal of my comments are taken from my own experience. Weigh different opinions and of course my advice or comment is only my opinion.


Imho I have to agree, do not give her the money.

We are all struggling to follow certain MB principles, constructive guidelines where we can make decisions with composure, clarity and forethought, BUT please REMEMBER this is WAR in a sense. You're wife is in a fog and during this time she is destroying your M. You seem like a great guy, but some of your posts seem to be too idunno the word...to trusting or to sure that she will simply snap out of this fog and return to the M swiftly. Do not enable her to destroy your M and venture off to spend time with OM that is YOURS and HERS. Please allow her to accept responsibility for moving out, going to the bank withdrawing the money....everything. She is responsible for her actions in the demise of your M. In the end, you never know her OWNERSHIP of her actions may be what wakes her up. Not to mention if you hand her money she might be more, can I say "INSPIRED" to pursue her destructive path.

You don't think she needs space to think do you? Space is for FURNITURE not for M's or people who wish to work on M's. SPACE means she wants to continue her EA/PA without interference, without the guilt of looking you in the face each day while she indulges herself in the fantasyland R with OM or even the thought of how green the grass may be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sorry if I seem harsh, but I made many mistakes. I thought the fact my W was dealing with a young kid who lived with his mother that she'd obviously come to her senses, I'll just be a good husband, pamper her and tend to her needs surely a WHALLAH will happen. Wrong! She WHALLAH'd herself right out the door. Do not take this aa a learning experience where you both get to grow and the inevitable will occur. If you enable this situation in the least she might use it as your co-signature for her to pursue this destructive path further.


I found out about my wifes ongoing EA/PA in I think June. I'm on a real rollercoaster, but I'm finally understanding. I don't want you to make the mistakes I made, thinking all is fine and there's NO WAY she'd ruin our marriage over this person who can't possibly meet the needs I can meet for her. Take it from me, you will be sitting with your mouth AGAPE at how irrationaly a fogged spouse can be. Here's to limiting your regrets, not giving her the ammunition to blame you (though she will) and holding her accountable for her actions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Take care.

Thanks FM and all that have responded. I think I jumped into the middle of a fogbank myself. "Need space to think" is one of the first things I learned. I now have seen the withdrawal game begin.

In the span of 20 minutes (about 15 minutes ago), WW blamed me for the demise of her friendship with OM and she hates me. In a reverse, I asked "I can't understand how you can hate me because a friend doesn't want to spend time with you". No comment - just "stank-eye" tossed right at me. Next comment; "I'm only staying here because of DD but you can bet I'm not moving out". I said "I thought you wanted to move out and decide where you want to be in your life?". Response: "I'm still thinking of moving out". Of course, the stank-eye was tossed my way again. Next comment; "You're books on saving relationships; I don't believe people can fall in love again" and "I don't believe any of this rebuilding crap". I said "the books are for me so I know where I'm at in all of this". No comment - just more stank-eye. I didn't LB (I don't think), meaning I didn't allow my emotions to overtake my brain. Kinda proud of that because when I learned that the withdrawal is tough - holy smoke.....didn't know it would cut my heart out and toss it in the garden! Several one-liners from folks here stick in my head....An angry wife is an engaged wife/don't wallow in the lows and don't soar with the highs.....So many more that have stuck in my head.

Don't want to post too long right now. WW went for a run and will be heading this way to toss more stank-eyes at me (or maybe not considering how quickly the emotions shift). Either way, thanks to all of you. I'm back on track and will try and Plan A as long as I can. Plan B Letter is drafted and standing by, if needed. Not quite sure how that will work if WW doesn't leave. Cross that bridge if it gets there.

I'm just praying for the strength and guidance to continue this quest. I am so very thankful to all of the folks who are helping me in this journey.

BTW Family, sometimes a kick in the chest helps open the eyes. Got a couple today and it helped.

I here the pavement pounding from the "fogged out marathoner" who I happen to love more than I realized.......LS

Lost your doing great...I just wanted you to keep your wits about the situation. Be weary...but yes I angry outbursting, sarcastic one-liner wife is better than a detached semi-comatosed wife who sat on my couch for a month floundering over the loss of her "friend".

There's so many loops on this rollercoaster, my W just dropped by to give me somethings for our S. She wouldn't even make eye contact. She treats me like I had the A! She treats me like I lied to her and killed her dreams by exposing the A! I gave her the PLAN B letter, I just hope she reads it. She took it in a serious huff!!!

That's it.

Plan B time.

sailor,

Hi. I just wanted to add 2 bits from my personal experience.

My W moved out. I signed the lease on her apt. I bought her furniture and personally carried it up the stairs. I outfitted her kitchen - down to the spoons and forks.

After the first few months, I was spending 1/2 the nights at her appartment. It took 18 months (partly because I lost my job), but we bought another house and moved back in together in a new place.

In a way, helping her move had good effects. She felt trapped. Maybe your W is in a different situtation, but my W felt trapped. I wanted to free her. This is consistent with Dobson's theory in "Love must be Tough". "Let the bird out of the cage", he says.

On the other hand, my W is impulsive. On her own, she would never have been able to carry out her impulses. It was just too much work. If I had resisted the move-out, she really would not have been able to do it - and perhaps everything would have worked out even better.

I didn't want to be married to somebody who only lived with me because she felt she had no alternative - because she was trapped.

Later, W thanked me for that - said the it meant that I loved her - that I would do all that to help her move out.

Now, in our situation, OM was not yet on-site. He was still out there over the ocean on the Internet and phone. If he had already been in town, I don't think I would have done it.

The upside for you - is that your child is apparently staying with you - or at least that seems to be the current plan. Don't count on it staying that way. Your W might decide to take the DD with her - and you may find (as some others here have) that you can't do much about it.

I was most devestated that my baby (6 mo-old) was gone. In a way, I think my relationship with my child was fundamentally changed by that - although she is very attached to me now. I think I emotionally detached a little. I just hurt too much. It was the only moment of true hopelessness in my life - that first night when my baby girl was gone. I missed her 100 times as much as I missed my wife.

Probably I'm not helping... just rambling.

Good luck to you...

-AD

LS,

Looks like you have really improved since last night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for the $$, it's your family's $$, not for the A. Her moving in or out is her choice (remember you can't control the WS). Her spending family $$ to support and enable the A is YOUR choice.

Here's why I say this. Right now, this very evening I learned that H's youngest sister is the WS and a very bad WS. Not repentant at all. She has always been the spoiled brat of the family and now she has an H and 4 children. Yet this has not stopped her (she is a SAHM) from spending:

1. $600.00 on makeup because her H 'forget' to pack her make-up case before their trip to Disneyland earlier this year. The family lost 1/2 a day driving around looking for about 3 stores.

2. Spent thousands (within the past year)on 2 or 3 boob jobs, face lifts galore (lips, eyebrows, nose, etc.) and probably has a frequent plastic buyers card w/her 2 plastic surgeons. She is only 26.

3. After the A was exposed, she confessed, then blamed her H, the OM, the OM's W oh yea..... and all of us (at different times of course). Then she went on a 5k clothes shopping spree (I think it was done in 1 day).

4. She was asked to leave the house due to her recent attacks on her H which she called the police and filed charges against him so now he is under counseling and their children are under evaluation. So she went to a local $300.00 night hotel (motel6 isn't good enough for this tramp).

5. She has managed to find $$ and funnel it her way. This is where it is getting real dangerous.

There's more to her spending spree. She rewarded her H by almost breaking his arm. The police were then called and her H had to be treated in the ER last weekend. She tried to minimize the incident by saying she only hit him with the chair just one time. BIL says it was 3 times.

He still won't tell me directly about it. He is in a state of denial. Even her side of the family (my H, his siblings and parents) agree this WS needs to be put out so the family can be safe.

So my take is cut off the $$ supply. Don't encourage or discourage the move out. Force her out when she is a danger to the family. You need to recognize the danger signs and NOT minimize them. Then you will need to take legal action. When the WS makes threats, don't respond, just listen, nod and walk away. You go do your legal homework. Act as if her threats are real when you speak to your legal counsel. You need to beat her to the punch because the WS knows no boundaries.

In my H's BIL's case, his denial has now caused great harm to his children and himself. He can no longer cover up for the actions of the WS. She is a danger to herself and everyone else.

H's BIL is a very very nice man. We hurt for him and his children. Not sure why he even choose to marry SIL. Oh yea, she got prego and used it against him..... yep she was manipulative like that waaaay back when.

Go figure, one of her previous BFs was named: Turkey. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hello Board.....Just wanted to add some comments from yesterday and mainly because I'm so PI**ED OFF because of what WW did. It's a little thing but still torques me.

The other day I took DD out to the mall while WW was "stewing". Found another very pretty dress for her but opted to not buy it. We (DD and I) picked out a blouse instead. First time in a long time that DD and I went shopping for clothes. Something WW normally does. I went to get myself some new clothes (infidelity diet!). Anyway, my ship is decommissioning next week and it's a pretty big deal. My plan was to buy DD the new dress so she could wear it. Guess what! I'm on duty today (have to stay on the ship for 24 hours) and I called WW to see how she and DD were doing. They were at the mall and yup, WW bought DD the dress. I played it cool and said something like "it's beautiful isn't it and I bet DD looks great". WW adds "shes does and I added a shawl(sp) too". Not LBing, I added "that's great, she's certainly a fashion statement and I can't wait to see her in it". Amazingly enough the conversation went short right after that. DD was playing on one of the mall playgrounds so I didn't get to talk to her. Asked WW how things went today, small talk about 2nd day of school, etc. Pretty much all one-liners from WW. I politely said "I'll talk to you later then". When I hung up, I could have kicked a hole in the steel bulkhead (that's a wall)!

So here I am. I logged on to what is now one of my saving graces - MB. I re-read this post, located more posts and needed to. I almost felt myself slipping again because my thoughts are "how do I Plan A and expect to see anything when all I receive is nothing but anger and minimal conversation from my WW". I'm glad I re-read.

One statement that I keep saying is....

"An angry wife is an engaged wife and she has to go through anger to get from withdrawal to intimacy"....that helped.

I received so many responses from WAT, ORCHID, Family Matters, Believer, JustLearning...I can't remember them all. All I do know is that the experiences of others are helping. I've started adding some of my own comments/experiences to other folks who post because although my head's about to explode (my heart is rebuilding from the explosion), I'm not the same person I was four weeks ago! A true belief that I can learn/grow from others who have been on this ride.

Thanks for listening. BTW, does anyone have any suggestions if WW moves out even though OM has called it off? How would I Plan B that one or should I continue to Plan A until I can either confirm/deny the A started back up again. I don't think WW is going anywhere, but just in case......

Thanks and God Bless.

LS,

Let's bring you back into balance here. While I agree that the WS' primary tendancy is to hurt the BS and score OP points, I can't see where the WS buying the dress and shawl being used that way.

See you s/b glad your D got the dress. Regardless of who bought it. At the most extreme, if the WS meant this as a stab to you, either way, your daughter w/b happy in the dress. I think this is an ample opportunity to show that as a family, you are happy for your D.

So just tell the WS, thanks for helping D get such a nice dress. Like you said, she will look good in it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good way to score some points with your W (maybe not with the WS but the W part of her will love it and it w/b hard for her to hide). WS' faces tend to get distorted when the spouse side starts to show up. Be alert. You will see it.

As for the WS moving out despite OM's ending it or not, well you can think about which plan your soul can handle. You have a little one to care for so if you can plan A fine but only for a while. Plan B s/b in the wings. This will help you. Doesn't matter if it helps the WS or not. That is where many here get confused. Plan B is a plan to help the BS not the WS.

L.

Orchid....Believe it or not I can't either. I guess my anger was more at the follow-on lack of conversation than the buying of the dress. As a matter of fact, I know it is.

My head is tilted while I type. That's because I don't want that reaction to come again. I didn't let it out other than on the board. Ranting here works and objective views always seem to rise to the occasion.....Thanks.

I believe I know WW didn't do that to stab me in the back. WW and I have an unwritten agreement that we will attempt to not let DD know what's going on. Although I know DD may be catching hints but I can honestly say that even in the middle of a discussion, if DD walks in we immediately shift into happy/joyous parents having conversation. I'm also aware of the tears. The other night during WW's emotional roller coaster, her eyes were red with tears. DD came into the kitchen and WW turned to the sink. I said "give mommy a backwards hug and then let's get you in the bathtub". WW played it as well. Reverse hugged DD and off I went with DD and started her bath water. DD didn't see WW's eyes full of tears. Not sure why I wrote that on the board, but I just felt I needed to.

Thanks Orchid for your clarity.

LS,

Stop playing games with your little one. Mine knew at 6. He had some strong questions for his dad and rightly so. Son participated in our recovery. Son & I had awful nightmares tha ran for several weeks, every night. Yet it was our son's letter to the WS that really touched WS' heart right through the fog. WS brought that letter home to him. Only 4 sentences but it packed a wallop.

Your little will want to protect her family. If you estrange her from it, she could feel that you don't want her t/b part of the family. Family's work on problems together. They laugh and cry, together.

Just a thought.

L.

Didn't expect that. I don't feel I'm playing games with my daughter. I believe in protecting her for as long as I can. I don't see how bringing her into where my WW and I are will help the situation. My WW is at home, I'm at home and although WE have our issues, WE still all lie in bed and read her books, play on the swing, go to swimming/ice skating, eat dinner together, etc.

I'm not naive enough to believe for one second that she may not ultimately realize things are not "right" between Mommy and Daddy but until I see change in her, I want to protect her from this.

If WW decides to abandon my DD and I, then I'm sure my world will crumble a little more because of the hurt/confusion that will be caused. I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it. Maybe it's a fantasy of sorts, but I'll shield her as long as I can.

......LS

Orchid...BTW, thanks for the last post. I re-read it and I'm sure my response sounded very defensive. Although not face to face, discussion helps me alot. Wanted you to know......LS

LS,

U R a kind man. I hope your W sees the same kind person we see. I am not offended in anyway. You are fighting for the life of your family. How you choose to do that is your own decision. Here we give input but the choice is always yours.

Did you read my last post at the bottom of page 2? It includes a short version of what my H's BIL is going through. I wish he would come here. I believe you all c/b of great support to him.

I want you to know that I respect what you are doing.

All the best,
L.

Orchid....I did read your post. Yesterday when I read it, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The actions the WS has done are sobering to me. I can't fathom how a relationship could turn so bad. I don't have my head in the sand, I know that happens everyday in every city. I'm so sorry he is going through this. How are his children handling it? Any chance he can come to MB or with four children, does he have an opportunity to come here?

I actually watched one of my best friends go through this a few years back. Everyone told him she was wrong (3 children, 3 different fathers). He didn't. He married her, had a child and once the "gloriness" wore off (about 3 years), the "games" began. He was arrested, almost kicked out of the military, began drinking excessively, and on and on. All the while, she moved on to her new boss. Needless to say, he is a beacon of light and what happens over time. He's now a better person than he was and very, very happy. I hope the same for your BIL.

......LS

I'm with Worthatry on this. The first step is the A ending wether by WS or by OM, think of it as a drug addiction and your doing and intervention the addict hates you at first and just wants to get back to that fix but the longer they stay away the clearer they become and see the destruction it has caused. Some WS here have been dumped by the OP and their vision has cleared. My H finally stopped contact but it took him two years to do it on his own, slow painful years I wish OW had just dumped him lol.

You say you wonder if wife will wonder "what if" My H believed the same of OW "what if I stop contact" He actually told me in C 8 months ago when I asked why he just couldn't commit to our marriage... he replied "because I might lose OW". So again it doesn't matter who dumps who, its more important for now that the addict doesn't get her fix.
km4

Thanks KM4.....Today was interesting. Started out with what I now call "normal withdrawal symptoms". Very short, obviously still "hates" me. The second phone call regarding me picking up DD was the same. Now we are both home and the conversation was actually pleasant. Or at least I got responses from WW. Now of course, my mind is racing. WW went to "take a nap" and I immediately checked her precious cell phone. No calls to/from OM but some that I'm not sure about. Almost as if WW had positive contact with OM.

Monday, WW drove right past me on the freeway and I knew she was coming from the store OM works at. Monday afternoon/night was full of the same "normal withdrawal symptoms" of disdain. WW stated the "move out" option again. Anyway, now I'm questioning if WW is in contact. I read FamilyMatters post and he said one day hate, one day love, one day confusion, etc.

I hope this is just one of those "ups" vice contact.

This helps to spell out my feelings. Thanks for listening.......God Bless....LS