BTN,
Worthatry has posted a new topic to ask you about your personal experience regarding exposure. I suggest that you go there and answer and then go to the home page and spend some time reading MB principles.

We do not all have to agree on the specifics of every situation, but coming here and continuing to push your anti MB opinion on an MB site is not in keeping with the site expectations that you agreed to in signing up here.

Bob, continued prayers to you. You know what you must do and I know you are strong enough to do it. HONESTY...

Bob Pure, can we talk for a minute? Can we "step back" from the "expose the info to the GF" battlelines for a moment and consider the greater context?

YOUR objective is difficult in execution but simple in statement: End the affair, recover your marriage, and reestablish your wife's love for you.

So let's "be reasonable" here for a moment. You have exposed the affair to the OM's GF. She now KNOWS, no matter what lies she has been told about the "depth" of the affair, that there HAS been a huge betrayal and an affair. This is NOT the "first time" for the OM and I am sure from what you have written that the GF knew this when she chose to get involved with the OM in the first place.

It is NOT, IMHO, your responsibility to provide the GF with details that SHE does not solicit on her own. Think of it along the lines of asking your spouse about the details of her affair. YOU have a RIGHT to ask the questions and to the information, but YOU choose what information you want and need. The GF has the same right of choice. For you to provide details without her asking for it is "forcing information" upon her that she may not want to deal with at this point.

With respect to the possible of death of the OM's son from a previous marriage, it is tragic, but it is irrelevant to the current situation unless it is another fabricated lie. Since it is the truth that we are after, determining the truth or falsity of the status of the son is all that is important. As "cold" as it may sound, the son is NOT part of the affair equation and is NOT your concern. Send the real mother a sympathy card if it's true, but the OM already screwed up that family, and now is working on screwing up your family. There is a "caring heart," and there is being a "gullible fool" who allows his emotions to control his actions. You have demonstrated a caring heart, but the status of the OM's son is irrelevant to your family and the willful attempt to destroy your family by the OM.

The "death" of the son, real or made up, is NOT the problem. It is merely another tool that the OM is using to try to control you, his GF, your wife, and the situation. It is "damage control" and I'd be hard pressed to think that THIS OM is anything other than a "user" and "manipulator" who will use anything, including the death of his son, to his advantage.

The issue is simple and straightforward. It does NOT matter what is true about his son, what matters is that the OM does NOT want you to give the details to his GF.

Bob, you have a "chip in the big game" as the politicians like to put it. You have PROOF. It is very hard to lie and make up stories about something when there is HARD PROOF. It sort of like a "picture is worth a thousand words." The issue is the OM is AFRAID. You can use that fear to help your marriage because all contact by your wife with the OM must cease, forever, so that your wife can go through withdrawal, begin to see the OM for what he really was/is, and to begin to understand the depth of the love that you have for her.

So what to do? Put the evidence away somewhere safe. Call the OM and tell him that you will honor his request to not reveal the proof to his GF based upon the actions of the OM. That "action" is simple, he is to terminate all contact with your wife, to tell her that it is "over" and that he is totally committed to saving his relationship with his GF. No "I wishes...," no "I love you's, but...." Simple and direct. "It's over, I love my GF and will try to recover our relationship."

IF you discover ANY contact for any reason after that "goodbye", then you will consider your agreement with him broken and you will provide his GF with all the proof, no matter how long it has been since he "last" contacted your wife.

Then leave them to "their" problems and you concentrate on your marriage.

Bob, if it sounds cruel, I am sorry, but each of us is here for our OWN marriages, not the marriages or relationships of others. We tend to let that get clouded because we let our emotions and "empathisizing" with other's pain get us "off track" of what our objective is. I think it's safe to say that most of us who are trying to recover our marriages ARE basically "caring individuals" or we wouldn't be dealing with the pain of adultery...we'd be running as fast as we could.

IF you choose to provide the proof to the GF, you have "fired your bullet" without any specific target, or the wrong target, in your sights. It's like the Olympic shooter this past week who was contending for a medal until he shot at the wrong target. "Too late", the bullet went where it was aimed, but the target was not HIS target and the result was a Zero score and bullet did NOT have the impact or result that was desired.

Bob, the OM is a proven liar and a proven self-centered person who is NOT above using others for his own gain. Pick your "targets" and your "fights". Play YOUR game, not his.

Lastly, if you are worried that doing anything might "drive your wife back into his arms," then consider this: she has already been there and what you do or not do will not change that. She is NOT mentally sound at this point and YOU have be the rational one for both of you right now and until the "fog" breaks. So if the thought is "what if the OM tells my wife about my ultimatum and it makes her so angry that she leaves?", then you are no worse off that you are now. Do you REALLY believe that if everything fell apart for you, the OM's GF, and that the OM and your wife "got together", that his "propensity" would not become evident to your wife in short order?

The OBJECTIVE is to end the affair, get through withdrawal, and begin to work on recovering your marriage. Everything else is secondary to those objectives.

God bless.

Bob,

FH's is correct.

Ronald

The point is that the GF does not have all the true facts about the affair and the letters will resolve that issue. Surely, that is not so complicated to understand, is it?

Melody,

So, Bob shares the facts about the affair...and the letters to the OM's GF...he should then share with her EVERYTIME that they are in contact...right?

It is not his job to convince the GF of the affair...it is simply his job to share the evidence that she can do what she will with it....right?

I say give her ALL the evidence...if she wants to be in denial or hide her head in the sand so be it. To share ALL the details only seems right to me.

FWIW...I don't think there has been a death at all. I think it was a ruse to allow for contact and an attempt to play a sympathy card in the hopes of no further disclosure. If thats the case he is one sick Mofo.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ForeverHers:
<strong>So what to do? Put the evidence away somewhere safe. Call the OM and tell him that you will honor his request to not reveal the proof to his GF based upon the actions of the OM. That "action" is simple, he is to terminate all contact with your wife, to tell her that it is "over" and that he is totally committed to saving his relationship with his GF. No "I wishes...," no "I love you's, but...." Simple and direct. "It's over, I love my GF and will try to recover our relationship."

IF you discover ANY contact for any reason after that "goodbye", then you will consider your agreement with him broken and you will provide his GF with all the proof, no matter how long it has been since he "last" contacted your wife.

Then leave them to "their" problems and you concentrate on your marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob, I think FH's advice is excellent and the best thing to do under the current circumstances. Also, following FH's advice above will put the ball in the OM's court and force him to take responsibility and consequences for his own actions.

Suzet

Foreverhers etc. You may not believe this but after an earnest nights prayer asking God to move my heart I did exactly that this morning !

I thought and prayed about what is the decent thing here.
Then I remembered :
When I spoke to OM GF to expose the A I left her my contact details in case she wanted dates & times of liasons etc. She chose not to contact me even for the supporting evidence I had then despite OM & WWs denial.

She knows I have evidence and if at any time she chooses to ask me for it, as I have already offered I will provide it, regardless of any 'deal' with the OM. BUT as you say FH what right to I have to force this proof down her throat ? It tells her nothing new, just supports what she already knows.

She already knows everything I know, she just hasn't seen his signature and his nauseating teenaged love poetry.

So I determined in prayer that had I NOT exposed I would now expose but I already HAVE. My additional 'proof' adds nothing to OM GFs life. My exposure almost 'forces' her to do something about it, but what right do I have to make her do anything ?

And so, I have already told OM GF that if she wants any evidence I have she should just ask.

So then I thought exactly what you said FH. OM is scared of this proof. He wants so desperately to reconcile with his GF and son he is terrified I will submit the proof.

I sent teh following email to hoim this morning:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Firstly let me say that as a father I am sorry for your loss. I would not wish the loss of a son even on you despite what you have done to my family.
 
(WW) tells me you have asked that I do not contact (OM GF) with my proof of your affair.
 
I will tell you that I will have no reason to ever contact anyone in your family ever again if you cease all contact with my wife immediately and concentrate instead on your own partner and children. Surely they must mean more to you than EVER at this sad time ?
 
Take extraordinary precautions to never meet with or contact my wife again - no karate tournaments, no 'secret' cellphone, no Japanese postcards, Nothing and I will never contact you or anyone in your family again unsolicited. No contact  (not even the friendship you had before the affair) is the price you will have paid for your infidelity.
 
Do not end with another sickening " I will love you forever" letter like when you last broke your promise of no contact.
 
I was EMBARRASSED for you when I read that mess. No' (bob) is forcing me to drop you, farewell for ever' bull either. Be a man for God's sake.
 
It is the right thing to do, just DO the right thing by (OM SON) for the first time in MONTHS. You have already denied (WW) to (OMGF)and tried to reconcile.  Just DROP (WW)and continue down that path.
 
 Just send an unemotional note like THIS to (WW)and drop it. Forever. You are a grown man, you will get over it. You have many times before in your life.
 
"(WW)
 
I now realise it was selfish to cause the people we loved so much pain, and while reconciliation cannot repay the offense, I feel it is the right thing to do. I care so very much about OM GF and OM Y SON that for their protection I have decided to completely, once and for all , end this relationship with you.
 
I will not contact you again, and I ask that you respect my wishes by never contacting me again either. Let us both concentrate on rebuilding the lives we have so damaged.
 
sincerely
OM "
 
If you continue contact with (WW)IN ANY WAY know that you will force me to do whatever is necessary to protect my family. ANYTHING. You are attacking my family if you remain in contact. I have nothing to lose.
 
Over to you to decide peace or pain as your future.  I suggest you send the note today and get on with the rest of your life.


Bob
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did what I thought best after a sleepless night of prayer. May my actions be God Blessed.

Thanks all.

First off, this is one interesting story, with twists and turns each day...WOW!

And, Bob, you should be the poster child for Plan A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't even fathom being as cool as you have been with some of the nonsense you are dealing with!

I think FH's advice is excellent and the right thing to do....most of the time...

But what I wonder about is this---
WW and OM are continuing to lie so they can be in contact and just smooth things over with GF for whatever their motives may be. Typical behavior of course. What WW and OM are now wanting/asking/demanding?? is that Bob be a party to the lie. He has info that they are still in contact and any help from GF to keep them apart would be helpful wouldn't it? At this point they are still in touch and want to keep it that way. He holds all the cards and they are scared. Why? Because they won't be able to continue the affair in any fashion if he plays his cards. And their party is over. Or they are forced to keep their promises to each other...ya know the one...as soon as this all blows over we will be together forever bla bla bla...

So, I think he is in a tough spot. And doing a wonderful job too!

Bob,
We were posting at the same time...

You are one heck of a man....I am in awe of your strength.

I hope your WW and Om visit a proctologist soon...while you are still so willing to reconcile

Wow.

MAL if the last month in my life was written as a soap script it would be dismissed as too fantastic....

Thank you for your support. I woul dbe happy to be a poster child now I LOOK GOOD in jeans again.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seriously, Plan A is the hardest thing I have ever done, but if it works I will be prouder of it than anything else I have ever done.

This is a heroes Gig. I pray I am up to the task.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I woul dbe happy to be a poster child now I LOOK GOOD in jeans again </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The ole infidelity diet? I've been on a few myself. Never been on any diet before, nor needed one, but this one was forced upon me. I think my eyes still show the effects of d-day but the diet has definitely ended! Put back on the weight I lost back then.

Keep up the good work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

D'ya know Bob, that you did exactly what I was going to suggest you do - Give it to God.

It's amazing the clarity you find when you give your troubles over to Him. That's how I ended up staying with my Nio...God told me, just as clear as if He'd smacked me with NCW's mackerel!

Your graciousness and faith are heartwarming.

Give the kiddoes a hug, 'kay?

- Kimmy

Good deal bp!!

YeOOOwzzzzzA!

Excellent letter!

I wonder.... did you "cc" it to the karate federation???

Pep (the evil-minded)

"Over to you to decide peace or pain as your future.  I suggest you send the note today and get on with the rest of your life."

This is my favorite part!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Integrity? Methinks this speaks well of Bob's integrity!

Bob is NOT afraid to face a challenge head on....

I betcha OM is making poopy-in-his-pants about now.

Pep

Dearest Pep you hit a sore spot. The Charity & Karate federation he 'works' for really still need to know what sort of man he is.....yet I have not taken any action to inform them yet. * sigh * Nothing is affair land is easy is it ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wonder.... did you "cc" it to the karate federation???

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of those twists I eluded to earlier! Another card you can play or keep up your sleeve for later use?

You will know soon what to do with this one too. Your story doesn't "hold still" for long-always a new twist or development..

stay strong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ya know, Bob, your message to that cockroach may very well work. I really hope so.

But you're trying to reason with a known liar and cheat. Sorta like trying to reason with a drunk. Ever try that?

Scorpion: Mr. Fox, please let me ride on your back across the river.

Fox: No, you'll sting me.

Scorpion: I promise not to sting you, because I want to get across the river.

Fox: OK

Upon reaching the other side, the scorpion promptly stung the fox. Why? Because it is his nature.

Regardless, I hope your message works.

But left undone is full disclosure to his GF. She could very well forever be denied the whole truth.

WAT

WAT I know....I know....I can only do what seems best.

He is a lying scumbag and I can't trust him. BUT he has a real self preservation instinct right now.

We'll see. My hopes are not high but I believe this wad 'worth a try'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dearest Pep you hit a sore spot. The Charity & Karate federation he 'works' for really still need to know what sort of man he is.....yet I have not taken any action to inform them yet. * sigh * Nothing is affair land is easy is it ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BP - Nope, it isn't easy. But it does get "easier" as time passes and one hurdle at a time is crossed. Just like in track, you don't go around a hurdle, you go over it in stride or through it if you are "off stride" a little, and you keep on going. But you don't go around it.

The Karate federation is one of those things that is NOT on your "track." Your race is YOUR marriage. No, I'm not disagreeing that it would be a "good thing" for them to know something about the morals of one of their coaches, but that does NOTHING for your marriage at this time.

File it away as something to be addressed "later" should the need arise. They already probably have an inkling of what his moral standards are like if they know about his past and his living with his GF "out of wedlock." So don't beat yourself up on this one. Just patiently wait and remain focused on YOUR marriage and the immediate threat.

God bless.