Jen your situation is inspiring to me.

My WW is defensive again this morning. Ah well. Another day, another dinner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Something else I noticed while I was thinking in the Gym this morning. WWs behaviour has changed notably since exposure.

* She doesn't go to the gym each day anymore. In fact she's only been once since then.
* She hasn't dyed her hair since exposure(every 2 weeks previously to hide grey)
* She went to dinner yesterday, and is going out today wearing nice, but casual clothes. She has worn very 'young' and uber-fashionable, flat belly-showing clothing since the A started for everything: chores, shopping, outings....
* Stopped chewing breath gum every 5 minutes - her car has been polluted with wrappers since the A began
* Stopped playing sloppy music all the darn time even the couterfeit romantic CDs that OM made for her (I PRAY for the day when she agreed of her own volition to remove every item of his from our lives).
* I bought her a teddy bear with a note that said " Somthing for you to cuddle in bed, until you want to cuddle me again sometime". Its been tossed aside for weeks. Its been back on the bed last couple days, even when I have made the bed and not put the bear there.

Don't get me wrong, she hasn't 'gone to pot' - shes a lovely, attractive 40 year old woman but she has definitely changed her behaviour. Perhaps because she hasn't met OM in seven weeks, and has no hope of so doing any time soon ?

She's too foggy for me to read anything into this, but an interesting thing to note anyway.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 05:41 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

pep

I worked out today. Then I made a game of taking the garbage to the recycling centre with my kids.
WW is lightening up since she woke up. She asked me to a Karate demo (part of a carnival) that my DD is in this afternoon. Great !

So I am stronger right now. pep I started to look at my wound. I have the conclusion that it might kill me.

I am having to be the primary carer for my WW right now , when I need ER myself. My love and trust have been cut through to my soul - and deeper. My spirit weeps at the injustice it is suffering, the hurt I feel is describable only in gutteral sounds, not words. The hate I have is a diseased, infecting thing roaming around within me. I am hollow, so much of my essence has bled from me.

All my FEELINGS of hope have gone, replaced with WORDS of hope that I do not truly believe.

I can never trust anyone again - my faculty for trust has been removed. I am not sure I can ever commit full love to anyone ever again either. That machine is also damaged beyind use.

There is little 'deep' of me left, pep. I am a shell with rank sepsis at my core.
And then it got too dark for me to keep looking. i am frightened at how broken I am beyond my veneer Pep. Frightened.

My WW isn;t able to help me with that right now. She can't help herself yet. She already feels that she cannot trust me to honestly support her again because of the hurt she KNOWS about. What will it do to her if I show her that she has virtually killed the good part of the man I was?

I am not very articulatre at describing this stuff. i hope it make sense.

I must rewrap the bandages and carry on. Too scary.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 06:06 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob, part of the problem (yes, I well know the need you feel) is your almost constant presence and posting on MB. Very typical for a lot of us, although I'd have to say that you have "gotten into" dialoging with others a bit more prolificly than most. It's not a criticism, it's mere a statement that is trying to remind you that exiting an affair, going through withdrawal, beginning recovery, working through recovery, reaching recovered....all takes time.

While I have sensed a certain level of calming and openness to things that you have stated you are cr@p with, I also still sense a high degree of impatience, part of which is seen in the voluminous posting that you do. So I just wanted to throw out the "reminder" to be Patient. To Endure (even though a lot of that is not "fair").

Let me perhaps "step over the line" with you for a minute. I say that because I know the last time I went there you slapped me down pretty hard, but I think it's another one of those "hard" things you need to think about and consider. Through all of this, your focus has been on ending the affair and hopefully recovering your marriage. Throughout your discussion of your past, her SAHM time, school, getting into Karate, etc., I got the big impression that was what driving her was her selfishness and unwillingness to be a servant to you and the children, her reluctance to fulfill her "role" as wife that was assigned by God. So my point is that she has perhaps wandered away from her "first love," Jesus Christ.

If you want a truly loving marriage, then you, through yourself being as humbly obedient to God's commands for husbands as you can be, can model for her through your resulting actions a humility, lack of pride, sorrow for your own "wrongs", a "changed life" based on God's love and obedience to His commands, of "restoring your soul" through God's forgiveness.

When she says something like:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She also fears I will never trust her again, and although she knows doesn't deserve trust she cannot live beholden to anyone, even me. This scares her too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she is being honest about her fear. Let's be honest about a couple of things here too. Her fear is well grounded. She HAS behaved in an untrustworthy manner and only by behaving in a trustworthy manner can trust be reestablished. But her statement about being "beholden to anyone" is either "just fear talking" or a symptom of a real underlying problem.

We are ALL beholden to others for a variety of things. But what you need to get across to her is that while are all most definitely "beholden" to a loving God who has forgiven us our sins, He DOES NOT "lord it over us." We are forgiven and HIS promise, as should be ours when we forgive someone, is to NEVER use the past, forgiven sin, against us in the future. We are God's children and Christ's bride, holy and pure in the sight of God. As a "bride" we walk as "co-equals", as completers of our spouse, as companions, as lovers, as friends...

The idea she is stating of being "beholden" is perhaps something that we hear from many Wayward Spouses whose spouses have a hard time with truly forgiving them. That response is along the lines of "nothing I do will EVER be 'good enough'." She will know that she is forgiven and not "beholden" when you reach the point that you can lower your guard and open yourself to the possibility of being hurt by her again.

That is why you need to think about her walk with Christ even more than her "walk with you as your wife." If she, and you, are walking more with Christ, you will each be growing in your "Christ-likeness." With Him as the center, the peak, of your marriage, you cannot escape growing closer to each other as you grow closer to Him. It is HIS promise to each of you.

If you both, having accepted Christ in the past, were to continue to "do it my way", God will let you. But you may want to think about the consequences of putting either one of you as the "center" of your marriage and "kicking Christ" out of your marriage or relegating Him to some dark corner to be "seen but not heard."

Bob, your wife is just beginning the painful facing of reality and the realization that there are consequences to sin. YOU must be like Jesus here, no matter how hard it is for you. As HE endured all the pain of the sin He took upon Himself because He loved us, so you too must "suck it up" on your wife's behalf, out of your love for her, and because right now YOU do have the strength and she does not. She doesn't know how. You have to show her the way.

You are both afraid of the unknown future. So the worry sets in. Remember, the future is in God's hands. We are to take care of the "troubles of today" because today is all that we CAN handle and affect. HOW we handle today can help shape the future we want, but worrying about it does no good.

But we're human, so worry is just one more battle that we fight. "Be still, and know that I am God." That alone calms many a fearful mind. There IS one who is greater than all who does love us and who does know the future.

When you hit those times when you feel almost overwhelmed, give it to God and post it here. We will help. There will surely be days that seem so desperate that all you feel like doing is "throwing in the towel." When you need some extra energy or simply a shoulder to lean on for a bit, come here. There is strength for "one more day" to be found here among others who have "been there, felt that, done that."

God bless.

FH i don't have anyone but mb. sad but true.I am here almost every day its true but I bet less frequent postes speak with friends/councelors and I don't/can't. I would rather be here and 2x4ed than not discuss this biggest bad thing that ever happened to me with no-one. Sorry again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> A symptom of my sad life.

Re impatience, yes I am impatient. Sitting on my thums for three weeks wasted 3 weeks of my life when I could've ben properly plan aing/Exposing.

Also, its a problem, I fix stuff fast for my job. Big business problems. Loads of money at stake ( huh! Just cash, right ? I agree !).

Patience is measured in days in my life, not years. I can be more patient when I am not threatened. When the A is dead, I can be more patient. In my job you remove the threat and THEN move long term. Tactical response versus strategic. Disarm the enemy THEN negotiate.

Until it is I am in 'fight or flight' mode. Its how I am built. Sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

So I am stronger right now. pep I started to look at my wound. I have the conclusion that it might kill me.

I'm pretty sure it will not kill you.

When I was describing my wound for the first time I said something like this:

It is as if a hand grenade had been placed into my chest cavity and YOU (my husband) pulled the pin.

The grenade exploded, leaving an open wound where my guts have been eviscerated.

All the oxygen has been sucked out of the room , and I gasp for air, and find I cannot pull anything but shards of glass into my lungs.

My poor Dear Mr. Pep.... listened to me describe my wounds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He had no choice, really.

Bob, can you tell? .... I am a happy person today! I am. Whatever scars I bear have become inspirational wounds, drawing me nearer to acceptance of my life's journey.

Here is another one of my stories...

The week after D-day , I took off. Well, I guess I better tell you why. I was unable to sleep in the bed with Mr. Pep next to me, so I got up and wandered around the house, talking to myself. It was Christmastime, (the week between Xmas and New Years) and the entire "Family Christmas" memories we had together were ruined by D day (Boxing Day was our D day , actually)

So I am wandering around our home (pissed off that "he" is sleeping like a baby and I am eviscerated), and the Christmas Tree began to offend me.... "You phoney e'fing stupid tree!!!" I was yelling insanely. So I kicked the tree to death with all the lights and ornaments on it. I do not know karate ... but I think I could have killed with my feet that night.

Then I stood there looking at the damage... and I knew, given a chance, I would do the same thing to my sleeping husband! So, I left. I got in my car and drove to a friends home about 30 miles away.

When the sun came up (still no sleep for me) I called Mr. Pep, who wondered what had happened to the tree .... and "Oh-oh ... Pepper is missing too???" I told him I would come home when I felt no need to hurt him. I stayed away 4 days. I did New Years with my friend.

So, backstory... the Xmas previous, Mr. Pep had bought me a beautiful crucifex I had wanted. It had diamonds and rubies on it. Beautiful workmanship. One day, while playing with my kids at a park, it slipped off my neck, and was lost.

Back to New Years day ... I went for a hike. And I prayed. I was seeking help for my madness. And suddenly, I remembered my lost crucifix. And the truth came to me. The beautiful crucifix I wore around my neck was false. I need to carry my crucifix on my back, like Christ. And, it's going to be heavy, and it's going to hurt.

So, I never replaced my neclace with another crucifix. I wear my crucifix on my back. You cannot see it. But, it's there. It keeps me humble. (Not humble enugh at times, that's a sure fact)

Bob... this will not kill you.

Your wound is too fresh. But, it will not kill you.

Your job is to (eventually) find the ~meaning~ of your wound.

Love,

Pep

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong> pep

I worked out today. Then I made a game of taking the garbage to the recycling centre with my kids.
WW is lightening up since she woke up. She asked me to a Karate demo (part of a carnival) that my DD is in this afternoon. Great !

So I am stronger right now. pep I started to look at my wound. I have the conclusion that it might kill me.

I am having to be the primary carer for my WW right now , when I need ER myself. My love and trust have been cut through to my soul - and deeper. My spirit weeps at the injustice it is suffering, the hurt I feel is describable only in gutteral sounds, not words. The hate I have is a diseased, infecting thing roaming around within me. I am hollow, so much of my essence has bled from me.

All my FEELINGS of hope have gone, replaced with WORDS of hope that I do not truly believe.

I can never trust anyone again - my faculty for trust has been removed. I am not sure I can ever commit full love to anyone ever again either. That machine is also damaged beyind use.

There is little 'deep' of me left, pep. I am a shell with rank sepsis at my core.
And then it got too dark for me to keep looking. i am frightened at how broken I am beyond my veneer Pep. Frightened.

My WW isn;t able to help me with that right now. She can't help herself yet. She already feels that she cannot trust me to honestly support her again because of the hurt she KNOWS about. What will it do to her if I show her that she has virtually killed the good part of the man I was?

I am not very articulatre at describing this stuff. i hope it make sense.

I must rewrap the bandages and carry on. Too scary. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good morning(afternoon for you), Bob.

Heros often bleed, sometimes they die, but not very often from a
broken heart.

Like any good soldier, your time for healing and rest will come. For now, try not to focus on the wounds, they are not life threatening yet, and the medics will take care of you once the danger is passed.

Your feelings are not gone, they are temporarily in check, and this is a good thing for right now. When this is over, the feelings will return.

Your trust is not really gone, look at the help you have received. Look at the trust you are beginning to have toward God. Your trust has been changed, but you can't see the end game yet, so you can't know what kind of change has been brought, or its long term effects. The machine is not broken, it is being tempered by fire, ultimately to be much stronger.

I know you are hurting, Bob. I wish I could make it better for you, so does everyone here. For now, this is a walk that you have to take, a path through pain. Even so, it is not forever, and it will not kill you. It is obviously going to hurt like hell, but in the long run, your character will be sharpened like flint. You will become a force to be reckoned with.

Let God shape your heart my friend. He is the true potter.

If you need a man to talk too, I am more than happy to listen to you. I can give you an email address and forward my phone number if you like. If not, don't worry, I won't be offended.

Hang in there, Bob. People are telling you it will get better. It will. This is something you can believe and hold on to.

Gimble

* pep, right now the meaning of my wound is straightforward - that my WW didn't value me highly enough NOT to risk emotionally killing me by pleasuring herself in an affair.

Clumsy, English , reserved I may be but any meaning beyond that seems a conceit to me Pep.

The wound is deliberate fiendly fire. I will not ever feel in any way that I deserved this even slightly.
I am emotionally gutted, quite literally.I was doing OK not thinking about it Pep I am not doing well now I have looked into the abyss in my chest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

* Gimble, dear friend, I have posted before that I believe God has given you and your wife a special burden to pray for my marriage. It is humbling and I thank you. I am blessed by it. I am blessed by you.

I have no choice but to give this to God. My own flesh would utterly fail to emerge from this with any merit at all. I no longer doubt that God can fix my brokenness, NOR That he WILL fix my brokenness. But for now I am broken and hurt.

All I can do is pray with my weak faith. And keep praying.

Gimble it would be a privilege to contact you, my mail is purebob @ evomail dot co dot uk.

My poor WW is smashed too, I hope I am strong enough for her, when I m not even strong enough for myself.

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Bob:

"The wound is deliberate fiendly fire."

We often find Freudian slips in our posts on here, but this one reallly caught my eye! Sorry for laughing, but I had 2.

Boy, I really love the post Pep gave you above. I'm not so far along in my own journey 2 fully appreciate the "value" of the wounds I've received - the oppor2nities they represent - but I'm getting there.

FH is right 2. It is all 2 easy for us 2 get wrapped up in our threads here on MB. I think it's because, so soon after D-day, our WS is the LAST person 2 go 2 for comfort and solace. It can be extremely painful 2 "go there" and have our outstretched hand lobbed off, but nobody accomplishes anything without taking risks.

I WOULD read something in2 the little things she says or does, like putting the teddy bear on the bed. Cherish those things so that when you "respond" in her presence 2 one of them, your sincere appreciation comes through not only in what you say, but how you say it - your body language, everything.

But, 5 pages in 2 days? I've done that before! Mostly, it was good for me, but not always. Sometimes you just have 2 get away from MB for a while 2 really think and see what GOOD there is all around you.

best,
-ol' 2long

2long FIENDLY fire, LOL ! I won't change the spelling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am back at work for real from 2morrow so very little MB from then on. A relief for you all !

In london tues/weds and possibly Copenhagen next week.

Bob:

don't get me wrong. We'll miss you!! Please post if you feel you need 2, but recognize that you need 2 also live your life. And your family, including your WW, needs you right now.

Just don't post so fiendishly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

We had to THROW 2Long off the forum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And, because I live near him, so 2Long paid myself and my H a friendly visit one day .... and he stayed 4 hours! The man had a LOT to get off his chest!

LOL

Those were some good old days, eh' 2Long?

Pep

Pep:

"Those were some good old days, eh' 2Long?"

Yeah! Let's NOT do that again, okay? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Noplace 2 go but up, from here on out!

-ol' 2long

Bob,
I find your journey an inspiration...I have read and re-read your threads and tried to understand how to go about my "plan" better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> pep, right now the meaning of my wound is straightforward - that my WW didn't value me highly enough NOT to risk emotionally killing me by pleasuring herself in an affair.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the thing that keeps hanging me up...3 years post D-Day! And I am afraid-no, terrified- to trust, believe or anything positive. I can't seem to get to a place that I can meet H EN's without regard to what I want/need/feel.

I am still in awe of how you are handling this. All the while she is still fog talking you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The wound is deliberate fiendly fire. I will not ever feel in any way that I deserved this even slightly.
I am emotionally gutted, quite literally.I was doing OK not thinking about it Pep I am not doing well now I have looked into the abyss in my chest. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel the same way too. And I get confused by the MB way...the part about if I had met needs pre-A it wouldn't have happened etc. (not sure of that one-depends on the personality of the WH).
And, we have had 3 A's in our 20 years. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I told H my guts felt like the world trade centers...d-day was the day before that...and i fell apart 2 days later. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It was awful...
I have to run unexpectedly-I'll check back later

Dearest Bob,

Read your posts and made me cry...ditto to the way you feel...I too feel this exact way, and you managed to put it into words for me! On the positive side to your situation tho, your W's A is over from OP standpoint! My H's OP still pursuing my H like crazy! My point is it adds much more to the desperation I feel! I am also impatient because I am a "fixer" and have been doing this for 7 mths with my "fence sitter". OW is in another state but continues her "tactics" of persuing my H via phone, emails, mail, etc. H says he is still processing what OW really is...fantasy or what! Anyway, he came over and actually sat beside me on couch last night...funny how we ache for some sort of response from them. Just want to give you a reminder that we need to give credit to small steps as our reward for loving them so truly. ie the teddy bear!!!! And also remind you that at least part of your battle has retrieved...now march forward and claim with all your heart what has always been yours and just took a wrong turn in the road! Show her the right path back to you and your family. She needs your guidance now.

Bob, nothing to be sorry for. All I was trying to do was to give you an opportunity to "catch a breath."

I DO understand what you mean about only having MB to talk to. I was the same way. I have never had anyone to talk to about the affair or my feelings and struggles, except for God.

So I understand maybe a little better than you think, BUT I also "learned the hard way" that sometimes you have take a little time to "step back from the 'trees' so you can see the whole forest and progress that you HAVE made."

I'm reminded of a joke I read in one of the many books that I read. I don't remember which book it was right now, but it basically went like this:

One day a short, stocky, little man walked up to a bunch of big, brawny, lumberjacks who were standing around in their camp getting ready for the day's work cutting trees.

"I'd like a job" he said to the head lumberjack.

Everyone laughed, "What could so little a man do?"

But then one of the lumberjacks said, "Well it might be fun to watch if we let him try!"

So they picked out a big old tree and told the little man to chop it down.

The little man walked over to the tree, picked up his axe and swung..."Swoosh!" And with that the mighty tree fell.

The laughter stopped. "It must have been an old rotted tree!, they said. "Here try this one!" they said, picking out the biggest, tallest tree they could see.

The little man drew back his axe again and "swoosh", with one swing the mighty tree was felled.

"You're Hired!," shouted the head lumberjack.

"Where did you ever learn to chop trees like that?!"

"In a place called the Sahara Forest," said the little man grinning.

"You mean the Sahara Desert," the men said.

"That's what they call it now," said the little man.

One tree here, three trees there, and before long the whole forest.

Bob, see the trees you have felled already. Step back and look at the forest, the progress you've made, take a breath and ready yourself for "one more tree at a time."

God bless.

* MAL, I find inspiration in the least likely places too sometimes ! Please make sure you 'study' the sagas of the wise head hough. They know what they're talking about.

I'm just an ordinary bloke trying to do anything I can to keep afloat.

* sabot, write your feelings in a journal or somthing. It was very painful for me to write the stuff about how I felt about the hurt done to me; my WOUND but it was theraputic. I am not as in control of myself as I had convinced myself I was.

Without healing I will not love again, trust again, enjoy again. The path to reclaiming my WW is at least in part,also a path to rescue myself. Even if I don't win her back, I still need to 'push against the rock' for my own healing.

* FH, as ever your insight is wise. I am impatient. Even though stuff has moved fast in my drama, its not fast enough for my though I know that any faster would not be sustainable.

Its good that work will keep me away from A talk and fog here and elsewhere for a while.


Thanks all

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Dad Gummit! Was really getting going with a great post and something went horribly wrong-said it didn't post (wasn't trying to yet) and figured I lost it all...instead it posts half of it and loses the rest..

Better to delete and forget it for now...

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: marriedandlonely ]</small>