you know smur....it's too bad you don't live closer I'd say hey...let go to a spa for the weekend and leave the husbands wondering where we were...we could relax and use a plan on the at the same time.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> we both sound like we need massages....

yes, that sounds so good.
Actually I'm in Japan, so its a little far... But they do have wonderful spas here.

I'm also planning something nice I could do for myself this weekend to relax a bit... Just so much stress right now. Also my Grandma died last week....

Smur:

I know this is very confusing, and it sounds to me that you'd like your H to be consistent and steady.

Put yourself in your H's shoes. Keep in mind - I'm talking about being a man who's W had an A.

Your A totally emasculated him. Your A said that he was inadequate, less of a man than you need. He was replaced once before; it can happen again. He probably feels like a little boy.

I felt under a great deal of pressure to measure up, so to speak. I constantly worried that WW would say to me "look, this isn't working out. You're just not man enough for me." I tried like hell to be more like OM apparently was, on the logic that then I WOULD be acceptable.

The fear of rejection. That may well be overhanging your H and his actions.

But, what are you doing to aid recovery? I know that there were things my WW did not do that had she, would have tremendously assisted me:

1. Reassurance that I am a good and worthy man. My ego was severly wounded, and I needed help re-establishing it.

2. Reclaiming SF. Following D-day, I did ask for and get the "dirty details". My WW was decent enough to be honest and tell me how wonderful OM was, and how good the sex was. I was totally gun shy about initiating anything, out of fear and because of the mental images, and I desperately wanted my W to want me. I wanted her to initiate, but she never did. Mind you, this was a big problem for years before the A, and she often rejected me before.

3. Restitution. The time my WW was in the A was absolute hell for me. She was even colder and meaner to me than ever before. Post A, I would have liked her to make an effort to make amends to me for it. But, she was motivated more to put it in the past.

Ultimately, I left the M. I know my W felt terribly guilty and ashamed, but I really wanted her to take a more active role in the reconciliation. In fact, I really wanted her to take the lead in recovery, especially in those moments when I felt so overwhelmed by the task. I constantly doubted if I was doing the right thing. I did not trust my own judgement. At those times I needed my W to reassure me that I was doing the right thing by demonstrating my worth.

I know that you'd want nothing more than to have this expunged from the past, but you can't. You did what you did, for whatever reasons. You own it, including the repercussions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by smur:
<strong> yes, that sounds so good.
Actually I'm in Japan, so its a little far... But they do have wonderful spas here.

I'm also planning something nice I could do for myself this weekend to relax a bit... Just so much stress right now. Also my Grandma died last week.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm so sorry to hear about your grandma...you have my deepest sympathies....*hugs*

Hi,

My husband was in prison for six months. I had an affair after I promised that I would be faithful. He told me that he could not trust me anymore. He had a revenge affair and OW is expecting a baby. I only had sex with OM twice and I hated it. I mostly was lonely and wanted OM for conversation. I would have done anything to make up to husband. But he got his revenge on me and I will have to live with the consequenses for 18 years if I stay. I broke off contact with OM before my husband got out of prison. After discovery day husband was mean to me. But it is getting better lately. He has been nice to me this last month. I might get through this. I am so sorry you are going through this. I know how painful it is. But I am hear to say that there is hope and they do feel guilty after awhile but not so much at the time when they are getting their revenge. My husband told me that sometimes he would feel guilty for hurting me. Just let your husband know how much it is hurting you. I think you should let the man take a shower. I wouldn't want to push him to the OW. Show him that you are a great person and act like you are having fun. He will want in on the fun. Tell him that what he is doing causes you to hurt inside but that you are going to be strong and try and have fun anyhow, and if he wants to join you fine, if not fine.

thanks genia....I appreciate the info and advice...WH is coming over tonight for visitation....i'll have to see how it goes....I have been feeling better lately slept a little better.....I am just having a hard time with the pain...and when I see him or know he's been around the apartment it all floods back....I just wish he would come home and work on it...but I know he is still hurting and lashing out....so I have to take care of home right now....I hope your situation gets better as well....I'm so glad to have all of you who have offered me help and advice....this is becoming a good thread for ww's smur...look what you started you trendsetter you....hehe

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Hi,

When you see him make sure you look your best. He wants you to be crying and pineing over him so he can be comfortable that you will be waiting when he is finished getting his revenge on. Let him know how much he is hurting you. But be somewhat mysterious. Don't tell him your every move. Make him wonder. Act like you are happy. He will be so confused. He will want in because he thinks you are happy and he will be scared you might move on without him. Be friendly and try and have a great time with him. Look at Plan A. That is really what I am trying to say. Plan A your Butt off. Do not be too hard on yourself. You made a mistake and I made a mistake. We are human.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Genia:
<strong> Hi,

When you see him make sure you look your best. He wants you to be crying and pineing over him so he can be comfortable that you will be waiting when he is finished getting his revenge on. Let him know how much he is hurting you. But be somewhat mysterious. Don't tell him your every move. Make him wonder. Act like you are happy. He will be so confused. He will want in because he thinks you are happy and he will be scared you might move on without him. Be friendly and try and have a great time with him. Look at Plan A. That is really what I am trying to say. Plan A your Butt off. Do not be too hard on yourself. You made a mistake and I made a mistake. We are human. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK....I have been getting dolled up...wearing makeup and stuff when i know I'm gonna see him.....so.. and I am excited I can fit my wedding ring on again and haven't taken it off....thanks so mush for your info...I really treasure it...I know he's done some terrible things to me lately but I can't help loving him still....call me a fool....but I do

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Hi,

Invite him to go places with you. Like you are dating again. If he turns you down just think well maybe next time. But if he does turn you down tell him you are still going out. Your world is not to revolve around him, since his world is not revolveing around you. If he comes with you, Try and be as upbeat as you can. But do find time to tell him that his revenge is hurting you inside. Tell him that one day you hope he will forgive you so you can eventually share a life together.

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Genia ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Genia:
<strong> Hi,

Invite him to go places with you. Like you are dating again. If he turns you down just think well maybe next time. But if he does turn you down tell him you are still going out. Your world is not to revolve around him, since his world is not revolveing around you. If he comes with you, Try and be as upbeat as you can. But do find time to tell him that his revenge is hurting you inside. Tell him that one day you hope he will forgive you so you can eventually share a life together. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well see he gets very upset when I even mentioning trying to work on the marriage....he brings up things from my affair and throws it back in my face so i have tried not to disscuss us or OW around him....about the going places with me....he's extremely paranoid right now....he wouldn't even eat any food I cooked for him...said he was watching what he was eating and he didn't eat pasta anymore....thats a load of bull.....but he was gonna eat granola for dinner....yeah...I bet OW has dinner plans with him.....but Oh well....this is the man that told me in the recent past he came home and thought I had a hitman waiting in our home to kill him(before he moved out)....he also has been sleeping with a crowbar....and a stuffed ewok.....Tonight went ok he got defensive over the food thing....but I told him it was no big deal I was just worried because he was telling me he didn't have much of an appetite lately.....he said not to worry...I said I'm sorry it's hard not to as your friend....and because I do love you....and I left it at that....I spent time in my bedroom reading while he spent time with our son......and this time he actually did stuff like play with him and give him a bath....I popped out occasionally and played with my son and we played with him together.....he asked me some financial questions....I answered and remained cheery....I didn't cry you would have been so proud....and I looked very pretty....I did tell him he could come by and shower if he needed it....he was in the bedroom with me and I was on the bed...he hugged me and I told him I loved him and then walked him out and told him we would see him next week....and thats about it....did I do good?

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Hi,

I think in your case the 180's is needed. So sorry you are going through this. This is so difficult what you are going through. Your husband sounds very paranoid. Is he getting counseling. Maybe he is afraid of the OW too.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

No, don't do the 180 list. It is not something which should be done, step by step. It is merely a list of ideas.

Do a 180 instead. If you are doing something and getting a negative (or no results), then do the opposite.
For instance, if you tell her you love her anmd she gets ticked off, stop telling her you love her.

Read www.divorcebusting.com.

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

well he doesn't get mad when I tell him that I love him he either says I know or mumbles something kind of like fighting the urge to say it back....he gets a little difficult if I say I worry about him...so I know I can just not tell him I do....I mena the man is homeless...when I headed out for counseling the other day...I looked in my rear view and he was right behind me...at first I was shocked....then I thought I wonder if he was driving by to see if I was home....because his work and counseling was completely the oppisite direction and he usually goes directly from work to counseling....he was being counseled by our marriage counselor but now we see her jointly and need to find seperate counselors.....he seems to foucs on what I do every time we are in counseling....and not what he has done....I have distanced myself from him greatly no calls....he can't IM me on the puter anymore....and I don't even see him during the week excexpt for counseling and DS's visitation....I also have taken lostva's idea and am sending him a letter once a week to let him know what we are up to and how we are.....like she said...just like he's away at camp....I find writing it out is easier than talking to him...because in the past he has blown up at small things....

ACk! the divorce busting link doesn't work....

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Hey smur where U be....how are things going on your end?

oops double post...my comouter is acting up

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: missinghimterribly ]</small>

Hi Missing Him,

Listen to Chris. He is more of an expert than me. Different people will tell you different things. Another good person to give advise is Pep. I hope things get better for you.

DOH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
If I could spell properly. The link above works (and here it is again)
Read www.divorcebusting.com.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong> DOH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
If I could spell properly. The link above works (and here it is again)
Read www.divorcebusting.com. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it's ok sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain when typing too....I should be dubbed miss Typo most of the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Hi,

thanks for your condolences and thoughts. I was out yesterday walking with H. We actually tried to just have a good day, no talking about A, or about feelings, just relaxing and being friends. It was nice and quite calming. I don't want to take it as a sign of things to come, though.

About your thoughts, Uphill:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
1. Reassurance that I am a good and worthy man. My ego was severly wounded, and I needed help re-establishing it.

2. Reclaiming SF. Following D-day, I did ask for and get the "dirty details". My WW was decent enough to be honest and tell me how wonderful OM was, and how good the sex was. I was totally gun shy about initiating anything, out of fear and because of the mental images, and I desperately wanted my W to want me. I wanted her to initiate, but she never did. Mind you, this was a big problem for years before the A, and she often rejected me before.

3. Restitution. The time my WW was in the A was absolute hell for me. She was even colder and meaner to me than ever before. Post A, I would have liked her to make an effort to make amends to me for it. But, she was motivated more to put it in the past.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am actually trying and doing all of those things, and have been these past 3 months. The stuff about him being interested in other women only came up when I asked him about his feelings in the last 2 weeks. I was very calm about it and tried to just discuss it reasonably. I understand that he is very hurt and just trying to find some solid ground, to take control of the situation again.

I guess what has made me saddest was that he seemed(seems?) to have no interest at all in working with me on our relationship. When I have brought it up, he would just talk about his feelings of wanting to be "free". So its almost the opposite situation to what you describe - it seems its more him that wants to put this in the past than me. I want us to go to RC and talk and talk, even about the most difficult issues. I want to have the chance to prove to him that I have learnt something now, and that I value him and respect him.

Smur,

I am not sure what to tell you. I am bumping you up in hopes somebody else will answer.