NG-

She has read His needs her needs and Surviving an affair. I have tried to get her to come to this board but to my knowledge, she has not been here. Since I live in an apartment I can't look over her shoulder to see what she is doing.

I am afraid that any attempts to get her to read my posts would be viewed as a manipulation of her emotions.

I'm not here to convience her that I love her...I'm here to get ME help. But I sure wish she could read and get support.

I didn't get served divorce papers today so I will count it as a victory. Every day she waits is another day God can soften her heart and get her to see my actions. Then as my actions produce consistancy that will produce trust.

God can do this... I just know HE can! Keep praying!!!!!!

2scared

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Here I go again....had a great time with friends but can't stop thinking about H as I invited him out with us and never heard from him. In fact, ever since I gave him the nice care package for his upper respiratory infection, he hasn't returned my e-mails or calls. I couldn't help but torture myself more by driving by his place on my way home. No truck...he wasn't there. I no longer believe he was really coming home from Target the other night...I think he was lying to cover the fact that he was with another woman...not sure who she might be...perhaps someone he met in his new job??? Or perhaps he never gave up on his old affair...was just lying like he has for a whole year while I put my complete trust in him.

What the hell am I still doing here? I love the man I married...is it so much to ask for him back in my life? I feel like some frickin loser waiting and waiting for someone who keeps taking my love, my feelings for granted. I don't know how much longer I can hold on....I want to be as strong as I am when I am out competing in Ironman but am so weak emotionally right now. I can't stop thinking about how my perfect world has collapsed and how much I desire it to be rebuilt.

I continue to be confused. My visual dreams with H in it keep me lying awake at night wondering and crying. Thinking about what H is doing when I am out of the loop makes me nauseous because I see him f**king another woman and completely disregarding my feelings, our marriage.

How do I put my WS on ignore so I can focus on all that is good ahead of me? I constantly think about him...my worst emotional days are on days that I don't hear from him. My best days are when we have a conversation via e-mail or in person.

Do you think he would read "His Needs, Her Needs" if I sent it to him? Or would this just be a LB in his mind?

Please help...I am extremely lonely and sad tonite.

Thanks,

-K

K-

It's hard to stay up with you "west coast" night owls.

Ok... You have been doing great in Plan A. As to the book... His needs-HN is a great book about relationship building BUT if he is in the fog Surviving an Affair would be better. IMHO.

Here is where we need some other input. Perhaps you need to start a new thread on discovering the A. That way you can rattle the cages of the BS's out there who can help more with you. We are great to bounce stuff off of about the WS and what they are thinking, but maybe you need them to give you some advice.

Here is why. I think you need to expose his Affair. That can get nasty. How? First you need to find out who the OW is. That will hurt you like he%%. There are all kinds of posts here telling you how to do that but the most common way is to get ahold of his cell bill. If he's involved then he's communicating with her.

You do however, need to assess if this is something you really want to emotionally deal with RIGHT NOW...so close to Kona. It will take a lot of emotional energy and you need focus right now for the competition. Think about it.

Maybe stay in plan A with cards, email, voice mail or calls until after Kona and then head into discovery mode. Once exposed, the A has a shorter life.

Don't give up! You are a fighter and you will make it. I know the loneliness is all consuming at times... like most of the time.... but we will make it!

Good luck.

2scared

Thanks 2scared...I battle with this one all the time. I know since we live so close together that if he is, in deed, in a relationship with someone else right now that he most likely is staying at her place wherever that may be. I know his old flame from his 4 month affair last fall (never met her...he only told me when he dropped the bomb) lived about 20 miles north of me. However, I feel like we are bound to run into each other at some point in time since we have similar interests in where we go out. I am not sure how I'd handle the situation. In a bar, I think I'd hide unless I was lit up a bit in which case I'd probably have a bit more courage to confront him and his new toy. One of my friends, who is currently schooling for his real estate license, said that he would investigate for me...would actually be a spy to try to bring something to surface if I'd like. I almost want to catch him redhanded though...think he would feel really BAD and stupid for what he is doing if I was the one to bump into him on another date. This is bound to be an extremely demoralizing, emotional, heart wrenching experience that most likely will trigger some depression, anger, and nausea...stuff I don't need 3 weeks from Hawaii Ironman. BUT I am so sick of just "hanging", living a life that is so uncertain. I want to be moving forward and this is preventing from doing that; it is occupying every fricking waking moment and preventing me from taking strides forward in other areas of my life as well (work, training, etc.). I HATE him for this because there was so much for the two of us to be looking forward to. I will forever remember my 27-28th year of life as one of my worst despite all my other accomplishments. God I hope that 2005 will bring more positive into my life with respect to my marriage and/or love life.

With regards to his cell phone bill, I don't know how to get this in my hand when his mail is going to a different address??? I can't check his e-mail either because I don't know his password (he changed his account when he dropped the bomb on me). The only thing I can go by is catching him in the act which is going to be the hardest frickin thing to do...this is why I wanted to talk to his buddies although I know this could potentially be a LB. You know what though...every act my H has engaged in this past year, treating me like he has no care in the world for me, are major LB. My love bank continues to be in MAJOR debt and it hurts big time.

I am off for a run with a friend, ironically an FBI agent who is extremely pissed at the shady acts H has pulled on me. Then, I have some clients to see and $$ to make. Then, off to the Padres game...actually hope they lose because I want to see the Cubbies get the nod for the wildcard race!

Have a good day...thanks for continued input...think I will post another thread for the others to respond to.

-K

Fogless,

Are you still out of the house or are you back in? Where are you in your recovery?

2scared

2,

I'm at home with W and kids. I left for a week (at my request) about a month ago. Thought I needed time away from everyone, everything. It was the hardest thing to do when I left, knowning that in my heart I didn't want to leave, yet something was pulling me away and felt I had no control. Until you have experienced the FOG, you just can not understand it..

Lucky for me I have a wonderful W who has loved me more than I could ever deserve, (and yes she post out on the board).. She didn't find the board until after I had left, but she was doing a great plan A on her own.

Before I came home I told my W everything about the A, (not details). She had known about the A and we were working on our recovery but I had not completely told her everything, after doing this I felt much better, felt better about being home. She later ask me for more details and I answered all her "detail" questions. Some of this I know hurt but yet it seemed to get her to the next phase, I guess knowing is better than not knowing.. I still fight the withdrawls on a daily basis from the OW, (we work together), but I can see the improvements.

Since I have been home, things really have been going great. We are both more aware of each others needs, of course I will not lie, I still need to be reminded at times, but at least now I understand them!!! Think our real problem was with the kids, school, work, etc. etc. we had both just sort of gotten into a groove that did not allow any time for US. So that is one area we work on now, trying to make time for US..

fogless...

kjb,

Exposing the A will not be hard if he is actually having an A. Just take a weekend and follow him, with him being out of the house he will not be as covert about his actions and you will catch him... Just be prepared for that if that is what you want. I agree with 2scared, don't think you need that right now being so close to your next race. Wait till after the race, then you can expose the A and watch things start to crumble.

Send him an email one or twice during the week, remind him how much you love him. Waiting for the FOG to clear is the hardest part. Once it starts to clear and he pokes his head out for just a bit, things get easier...

hang in there, your doing great...
and I'm a believer that things happen for a reason as well. We may not know the reason at the time but eventually it's all clear..

fogless...

Thanks fogless...went by his house at 2am on my way home from a friends house this morning and then again at 6:30am on my way to a race. His parking spot once again was empty which means he most likely booked out of town. I suppose he could be with friends but my gut tells me that it is with another woman <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I am actually worried though. For 2 weeks, H has been very good at returning my phone calls and e-mail messages within a couple hours of receiving them. Now, out of the blue, he is putting me on ignore. And, his mom called me this morning and she hasn't had her e-mails or calls returned for several days now either. If he were with friends, he'd pick up the phone but if he is with another woman, he knows that his parents and I won't approve and therefore he is probably shutting us out for the time being. I hope to god that his weekend fling was a disaster and he comes home realizing that whatever ho he is thinking is the next best thing turns out to be a big loser. Not sure if I should confront him about the weekend...most likely will just discover more lies from him. What do you think? Just lay low and drive myself nuts thinking of the what if's of his weekend or should I try to get the truth revealed?

I think I need to get out of the house today...going to put my bikini on and take a walk at the beach. Wonder if I'll see him with her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
-K

kjb,

I think confronting him with out proof will only lead to more fog babble, lies, etc. You could email him and say you stopped by a couple of times this weekend but missed him, then just ask if he is seeing someone else (this gives him a chance). If he comes clean, good, if not just drop it until you are ready to expose the A.

Just remember, your in training for you next big race, I would certainly wait until after that before exposing the A. Use the anger you feel to help you train, everytime you think about him or the OW, go out and run a mile, or in your case 26... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope the walk on the beach was relaxing for you...

fogless...

I sent this...may be over the top but I have such a dang hard time being mean:

Hey S-

Are you feeling better? Hope you had a good weekend. Were you out of town? I stopped by a couple times to see how you were doing and to pick up my cable bill but didn't have any luck catching ya! I guess you must be feeling better if you were out and about all weekend. Perhaps you can save Friday night for me so I can pick up my cable bill and perhaps treat you to the new firefighting movie, Ladder 49, which opens on Friday. Whatcha think? I am also racing my first triathlon as an Elite at Mission Bay next Sunday...would love your support if you are able to come ( :

The Haunted Hotel was fun on Friday night...had fun role playing as one of the haunters to see the response of the actors/actresses as well as the other attendees (hee hee hee). The chainsaw was the scariest aspect of the hotel because you can smell the gasoline. I know they take the chains off but it seems to me that it would still hurt! I can't believe how much the Gaslamp district has changed from our days of visiting Buffalo Joes and Disco Pimps/80z All Starz! Buffalo Joes is now another bar and there are a junkload of new bars on the strip. Also visited Hustler which was interesting to say the least...a few things reminded me of some of our pleasurable moments and also gave me some ideas @#$!!!! We hung out at "The Field", a quaint Irish bar off of 4th St. It was pretty cool because all the bar attire was brought in from Ireland. I wish you could have joined us! The Padres game ended up being for Sat night so I got to see the "end of the summer" firework display at Petco. Wow...it was better than any 4th of July display I've seen. Plus we were about 10 rows up from the 3rd baseline...pretty killer seats. There were record crowds at the stadium probably because of the fireworks and the fact that it was the last home game. The Padres won but unfortunately both the Cubbies and Yankies lost...not that the Yankies have anything to worry about. Yes, I am sure they have a very good chance of winning the World Series again which I am sure will prep your football taunting juices even if the Raiders get their asses kicked by the Bears (ha). It is amazing how the area right by Petco has changed too...slowly but surely, San Diego is actually becoming a downtown with some nightlife. Did you see all the bars/clubs surrounding the park when you went to the game? I remember it being just a breeding ground for homeless when we'd visit the bike shop off of 11th Ave! It is nice to see.

Less than 3 weeks until Hawaii...I am ready to cross that finishline and retire my Ironman jersey for at least a year if not longer. I am enjoying the sprint training a lot now and it takes up so much less time! Have you been on your bike at all? You should come out to one of the fun club races sometime...good food and very low key. I did the Ironicman, a 0.24 mile swim, 11.2 mile bike, 2.62 mile run (get it), this morning although it was a bit rough getting up after being out last night...I remember running a few races a bit lit when we first started dating...not so easy to do as I get older!

Well, enjoy the last bit of weekend left. I'd love to hear how your weekend went...give me a ring if you get the chance.

Love always,

K

FYI, my good friend says that I need to completely ignore him. She was cheated on in the past by a boyfriend of several years. She ignored him and he came knocking back to her door after a month. Is this really what works? I think I'd have a hard time completely detaching myself as I feel better sending the "warm fuzzy" type e-mails and also sending nice gestures...just not sure if this is appropriate right now.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-K

K-

You're in plan A and that asks you to be as nice as possible. You're setting the stage so that when the A begins to crumble he will remember and return. The no contact part is plan B. Not yet...

Train..train and train more. You're too close and the emotional pain and exhaustion that is caused by "knowing" will send you over the edge. Work on you for now. I agree with fogless. Let it go till after the race. Stay nice and lay the groundwork for the next phase.

I wish I was on the beach.

Ah...the midwest.

2scared

Fogless-

Thanks for sharing. You're on track to a great recovery.

Mine is so shaky right now. I went by the house after Church to grab a few winter shirts and "feel" good actually being "in" the house (while W was at church...we attend different ones right now) and when I got there she had changed ALL the locks. Ouch.... It's not looking good here for recovery. I just have to stay in plan A and pray!

2scared

Yes...it is really hard not knowing though! I do have an easy time being nice but I drive myself crazy not knowing what he is up to! Today, I tried to upload his cell phone activity. Unfortunately, I am not sure which service he uses and don't know his password...some of the service providers only require the phone number and SS# which I can provide but the password crap I am clueless....not sure if I really want to pay $100 for the investigation of his phone activity. I'd rather catch him in the act...but I suppose I'll have to wait.

The midwest...brrrr....being a former Chicago-land girl of 20 years before moving to Florida and then Cali, I can relate although it isn't too bad yet, is it?

-K

K-

I'm just south of St. Louis. Not too bad yet. 75-80 highs. I love fall.

Patience... You don't need to hire a PI yet. Train... Trust me, the emotional drain is too much right now.

2scared

Yes, patience...I am having a hard time with that one! I am tapering now so I have more dead time during the day although I did go out both nights this weekend for the first time in a LONG time. Now I am bored out of my mind and am thinking, thinking, thinking...agh!

It will be nice when I leave for Hawaii because I'll have 10 days away from home although I have a feeling I am going to be thinking of H since he took me there last year to watch the Ironman...we had a blast but I realize now that we went right when he had started the affair <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I know if the tables were turned and this were happening to the friend, I'd be pissed off but I have trouble getting angry...only get very sad and emotional. How is it that I can be so desperate for him back in my life when all he has done is treat me like sh*t this past year. I seem to block this out and always focus on the amazing times we had together...how come he can't do this too? We'll see if he returns any of my messages from late last week...am guessing not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I love the fall too...San Diego is charred from last October's fires so the fall foliage is not very pretty. I miss the change of seasons although I do not miss the long winters! Enjoy the heat while it lasts!!!

-K

Am still debating whether or not I should send H the Harley books now? Not sure if the timing is right...was thinking I may send them on his 31st birthday in November! I am hoping that things are better between us then so we can spend the holidays together.

Hi, there. I've never posted on this thread and I'm not a WH - I'm the BW. I wanted to ask a question though and see if I can get a little direction.

My WH is willing to work on things....for a while. I see him coming around in some aspects but he is not yet willing to give up OW. He loves her. He can't imagine giving her up. He's also not sure he's willing to leave me and his children though.

I can see his pain and it hurts me too. I see him grieving for her and it tears a piece out of my heart. We are in counseling with SH and that is truly helping and he has advised me to not make a huge issue out of the contact they maintain (phone, email and text messages) right now.

I brought him to the MB website and even to this thread specifically. He is reading SAA. But he still wonders how he is to give up someone he loves when he just isn't willing to yet.

What made the difference to you as a WH? What made you decide to initiate NC and to stay with your S? This is the question that is racking his brain right now. How does he know it's the right thing to do?

I've answered that question for him....from my perspective. He's just so confused right now and he really is hurting and can't find the answers.

I do believe that even asking the questions is a step in the right direction. He's here at home right now. But he is not willing to "do everything it takes, for as long as it takes" right now. He feels that an answer is around the corner but he can't guess what that is yet.

Any advice? I am in Plan A, in counseling and trying my best to save this marriage. I do believe it's a great possibility and I would actually be surprised if he does leave at this point. But what will it take for him to answer that question? What did it take for you to?

Faithinme-

Hey... My heart goes out to you and your H.

First you. You're doing great. I had a friend ask me one time what I wished my BW would have done differently that could have brought me around sooner. It would have been to encourage me and stand WITH me through the decisions I was trying to make. My BW didn't. She went right into a type of plan B...except with no hope. She pushed me away and said I had to end it...but even then she didn't think she would accept me back. That was a catch 22. End the A and lose both women or stay in the A and at least keep one. I decided to gamble and end the A. For several reasons. First, I loved my wife more than anything. Second, God was convicting me, and third my children were way too important. It was the look in their eye and their action that got to my heart and started the journey. So, my advice to you... stay supportive. Let him know that you love him...you will not stand for him to have two women but you will make it well worth the choice if he stays. Then start looking at the "condition" of your marriage. I say that I am 100% responsible for the choice of the A, but not 100% responsible for the condition of the marriage at the time I made that choice. That's not blame shifting...it's the reality that marriage is an evolution and growth toward perfection. Look at area's that need improvement. Make the marriage one that nobody would ever want to leave.

Now your WH. He is in the fog and the fear of detachment is all consuming. It is overwhelming. I ended the A but had a heck of a time ending ALL contact. She was out of state so the physical contact was easy, it was the emotion of ending all talking that was hard. She was laying a guilt trip on me making me feel like a jerk that I was ending this romantic relationship that we had dreamed would be so good. I wanted to end it on a good note and walk away feeling good about myself as a human being. That was a BIG mistake. I was more concerned about not hurting my ego and her feelings...while I was destroying any hopes of recovery. I was addicted and couldn't break free. That was killing me. I mean KILLING me. Romans 7:14-25. The things I didn't want to do were the things I was doing. I felt horrible that I couldn't break free and my W was pushing me away. There was no where to turn. Pain everywhere.

Breaking free from the cycle of the addiction takes a bold decision to just do it. You have to hate what you have become and desire change. For men...at least we can weigh the options. It seems more like a business decision. The pain, kids, marriage, money, security, friends, house, future...vs, the A. Is it really worth giving up everything for the passion of the A? Once he decides that's what he wants then he has to take positive steps. A NC decision has to be made. A letter. He should have you help him write it and YOU should mail it. That will scare him. But, with your support he can make it. Once he initiates NC it will take a time to go through the withdrawl. AND THAT IS TOUGH. Depresion, pain and emotional turmoil. But it gets better. He will survive. But he has to take the first step. Read the following post:

Getting out

This is the struggle to decide to break free.

Good luck! Your in my prayers.

2scared

2Scared,

I was wondering whether your wife is taking any responsibility for the breakdown of your marriage? The reason I ask this is because if all she sees is what you have done wrong (and I am certainly not saying that she did anything to compare) then she will not be able to begin to recover. Even if she does decide on a D, she will still need to work through what went wrong in your marriage. I went back and read your first post. You said you tried to get your wife's attention but that it didn't work. What was going on? I know in my M, I was overwhelmed with our lives and I just started taking our relationship for granted. I was in my own little world, thinking I was doing my best but I was not.

I knew that things weren't perfect in our marriage, but I had no idea they were as bad as they were. After d-day, I had to take a hard look at myself over the past few years. And I have cried a lot of tears, not only over the A, but over what I did or didn't do for our marriage. I am still trying to make myself better so I can make us better.

Also, I didn't mean for your wife to read here so she would know you love her. I think she knows that. She is just really angry and hurt. I meant it because my H posts out here some, and it is helpful for me to read his insight when talking to other people. It is different from when he talks to me. It is almost like listening to his thoughts. Him from a different viewpoint.

I hope this week goes well for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NG-

My wife has never accepted her part in the problems. Back then I would try to talk about it and she would get mad about "unconditional" love and me not accepting her without trying to change her. I kept telling her I did love her as she was but wanted to improve every area. She was always resistant to that.

Now...well, if I tryed to get her to see her responsibility I would be blame shifting.

Right now I think it is safe to say she's mad... she wrote a scathing email yesterday. She doesn't want to try to repair. She's too hurt. I'm just afraid she will jump into legal action before she works through to a more sane level of thought. Interesting that in the last counseling session (my W skipped), the counselor cautioned me that her emotional development might never proceed forward. She said my W might never be willing to change.

I do know God has a plan.

My advice to you. Dig in deep to the condition of the marriage at the time before the A. Make it a marriage that no one wants to ever leave. If both are willing to self examine and accept their responsibility then begin meeting needs...wow, it can thrive!

2scared