K-

Laughing... I have this visual now! I know you could out swim, out bike or out run them!

2scared

We went stayed at the mtn cabin wed night. Wed afternoon we shopped all the little shops. Bought a few prints and one framed print at an art shop. Shopping for home decor stuff - funny, huh? We had a really pleasant time - held hands and window shopped.

When we got back to the cabin - it was raining and very romantic. I went in for some kisses and was rejected. He said "Would you be mad if we just cuddle and not have sex?" Well I was upset and asked him if he was not having sex because of the OW. He said how many times have you rejected me because you didn't feel like it, it's the same thing - I just don't feel like it.

I tried to recover - but the OW came up again. I talked and said what my life would have been like without him - not married, get my masters, good job in robotics, travel alot, with a bf in each country. All in all not a very good night. But we did cuddle all night.

We returned home by 3pm on Thursay. As soon as he got home - he said I'm going to go get you some coffee. There was no cell phone signal where we were - so I knew he was going to call OW. And I told him that.

When he got home - I had calmed down and apologized for blowing up. I said everytime you contact OW you are twisting a knife in my heart. I said I'm going to stay with my parents for awhile and will not contact you and will not answer your calls.

Then we had lunch together - I was crying a little and he tried to wipe my tears and said "We do have fun together, don't we" - I said "Yes we do". That was it on the R talk for the rest of the night.

And then later on he came into my office and said "I'm going out for awhile". I said "Ok - see ya later"

I left after he left and went and got a hotel room last night. I didn't answer his calls (called twice). I left him a note saying I was staying somewhere else tonight.

When I got home this morning - after I knew he had left for work - He had written me a note.

"I am sorry you didn't feel comfortable staying here last night. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I hope you slept and koda didn't fart on you. I'll give you a call after surgery today."

Koda is our dog - I took him to the hotel last night.

So I'm going to plan B. I do not want to ruin everything I've done in plan A and it's getting to my breaking point.

I think I will stay at a hotel tonight also and leave a plan b letter.


Fogless or 2scared,

Did you get the plan b letter?

What was the timeline between d-day and when you moved out?

We don't have kids - would you say that was the biggest deciding factor to recommit to your marriage ?

Did your heart ever hurt so much it was just about unbearable? During the A ? After the A ?
He's brought up a couple of times - that since he doesn't feel panicked or hurt as much as I obviously do that what he's thinking about - leaving me - must be a good decision.

I know this thread was started to help FWH - Is there any insight I can give you ? I would like to help you like you've been helping us.

Thanks

Amy-

I can answer several of your questions tonight (I'm at work). There are some questions I would like to ask you too. I'll write more later. Hang in there.

Food for thought... I think you should ask him to leave instead of being the one to go get a hotel room. A couple of reasons. Your the girl... there's a safety concern (he should go). He is the one refusing to give up the OW. Tell him if he is unwilling to stop the contact then you want him to leave for a while in order for him to sort out his priorities. HE SHOULD LEAVE.

I'll write more later.

2scared

Fogless-

Be sure to follow and add your comments to this thread:

Waking up

2scared

Hey Fogless/2scared...TGIF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I posted a new thread talking about an e-mail sent to me and my WH by our wedding officiant in response to a letter addressed to us stating, "You have floated through my mind since your wedding day. Please let me know how you are doing. I am still performing lots of weddings and continue my practice of spiritual coaching. Please let me know how I can make yourself more wonderful." Weird, since she hasn't been in contact since our wedding day. Anyways, I responded back to her telling her my WH and my life saga these past 3.5 years along with asking for help. I figure she may be easier for my WH to fathom seeing since he is the one who hired her for our wedding day. I asked her to be confidential with the e-mail letter I sent her. Do you have any thoughts about this??? Would you be willing to see your wedding officiant as a WH in fog or am I just kidding myself thinking my WH will be willing to do anything to help our chances at a successful marriage.

Thanks

-K

I sent my W an email asking her very nicely if I could come by the house and get some clothes and things I needed. Remember, she changed all the locks so I was worried she would tell me to get lost. Instead, I received a nice email telling me she had to run do some shopping and would leave the front door unlocked, take whatever you need.

WOW! That was a glimmer of TRUST. Now remember, I'm the FWH and her trust in me isn't exactly high right now, so this was MAJOR. I thanked her and went over and picked up the things I needed and was careful not to snoop. I did play with my dog! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She was excited to see me too. Then when I got back to the apartment I sent her an email thanking her for trusting me in the house alone.

I am trying so hard... Guys, just when I thought all hope was gone there was almost a tiny speck of hope. I know not to get too excited because tomorrow might be bad again, but today...well, she trusted me and I honored that trust. That was good.

I know that God can change her heart... you know how I know that? Because he change mine.

2scared

That is awesome 2scared...I am happy your wife seems to be receptive to the strides you are making towards saving your marriage with her. Keep up the good work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It is always nice to have something positive happen...it is what keeps our hope alive.

I now haven't heard from my WH since the beginning of the week...am assuming he will just ignore me as always <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am not sure what else I can say or do. It is damn hard pretending like I am ok without him to talk to because each day that passes, I start to think and believe that I'll never have a chance to share love with him again <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I just need for him to show me something (actions) to indicate that he still cares for me....his ignoring me is NOT working.

Any more great words of advice???

Another wild Friday night (ha ha ha)...will probably crash early. My wild days are yet to come...can't wait to cross that finish line on Alii Dr so I can get my tropical drink and relax on the beach <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Am swimming in the morning, getting fitted to a new bike by my sponsor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , seeing clients, and eating some pasta tomorrow. Sunday is my first sprint race as an elite so I am excited...I am really not taking it too seriously since Kona is only 2 weeks away but it would be nice to maintain my perfect winning streak of the past 2 months!!! Oh, and there is a huge bash for those of us racing in Kona so I'll be unwinding from the stress of the week on Sunday night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Have a good weekend,

-K

Amy-

Okay girl, let’s take a look at some of this. Did my heart hurt during the A? Yes and No. Yes it hurt because I was realizing all the pain I was creating but I couldn’t seem to stop the A. I wanted to, but I also wanted to keep it going. I had convinced myself that the A was how I was going to be happy. Looking back I was UNHAPPY so much of the time. Oh, I enjoyed doing things with the OW and was happy for brief moments of time but my insides were in such turmoil. Especially toward the end. I have started answering a thread with “waking up” about the struggle she is going through internally. That is what I was going through. I had lost my core value system and my insides were ripping away trying to justify the sin. It was killing me! KILLING ME! I was so ready to put my life back at peace. The struggle I had getting out was intense too. It took a month and a half to finally demand and enforce NC. I was being played from one emotion to the other. I will tell Waking up about it in that thread. Walking away from an A that has been emotionally fulfilling takes every ounce of strength and even then it feels like your going to die. BUT, it can be done.

Once the fog clears it get easier and easier. Clearer and clearer. Then you start making sound decisions…but in the fog nothing is as it seems. Your H is addicted to the relationship and can’t see squat right now. You just need to stay focused. But I don’t think you need to be the one to leave. You’re the faithful one. Make him leave if someone has to leave. Just remember, it’s much more difficult for him to manage the A under your roof and it’s much easier for you to monitor him under your roof. Once he leaves you won’t know what he is doing. He can talk on the phone anytime he wants. Go anytime, anywhere. So you better be sure this is what you want. It’s a big chunk to chew.

Read Pure Bobs comments from tonight about plan A working. It is inspirational. You can do this.

What changed me? Hmmm. I was getting so torn up inside because my actions were so wrong from my core values. My wife was giving up and I knew I was going to lose her if I didn’t act soon (and I didn’t want to lose her). My kids were pulling away and hating me. The OW was starting to fall from the fantasy world. The OW was LBing and my wife was looking better and better. Then I looked in the mirror and I couldn’t stand myself. About that time everything began to spin out of control…. The fog broke for a moment and I poked my head out to see the mess.

Just know that anyone can throw in the towel and give up…it takes real guts and work to stick it out. WORK. But, it is worth it and it can be great! Different, but Great.

Did I get a plan B letter? No. And that was hard. I had no commitment that if I ended the A she would agree to work together toward recommitment. In fact she said end the A if you want, but I’m not sure if I’ll be there or not. I still don’t know what she’ll do. That’s okay. I know what I’m doing….

I CAN look at myself in the mirror with respect now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good luck,

2scared

K-

What are the distances on the sprint race?

Don't unwind tooooooooo much Sunday night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

2scared

The race is very short (well, as compared to Ironman!)...500 meter ocean swim, 15k bike, 5k run. I am not wearing a wetsuit (despite 65 degree water temp) since I can't wear one in Kona (where water is 80 degrees)...this will slow me down a bit and my swim is not my strength (got no buoyancy with my 100 lb frame) so I anticipate that I'll be playing catchup the entire time. My last sprint race, I was 30 seconds off the leaders coming off the bike and then I beat the 2nd place girl by over a minute cuz I posted an 18 minute 5k split <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I ended up winning a $200 wetsuit which I sold since I already have one! I am not sure what the prizes are for the pros but I am hoping some $$$ to help fund my trip to Kona!!!

I suppose I'll take it easy after my race on Sunday. I really am not a big drinker and as you can imagine, my 100 lb frame couldn't tolerate much even if I were. But I do like an occasional special drink...my buddies have been very good with pampering me with tasty beverages yet keeping me proper with Kona lying ahead <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The party is more about getting out of the house and socializing so I am not thinking and crying so much.

Whatcha up to this weekend?

-K

K-

Sleep in for a change. Then tomorrow I am going to get together with my sister. Sunday is church and football.

2scared

K-

I might swim in the morning... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But only 1500.

I think I could do...er....finish...the sprint race.

2scared

Ahhh yes, the beloved football season has begun. You're a Rams fan right? Enjoy your bed...can't wait to have my weekends back post Ironman!

I'd put money on you being able to finish a sprint race...it really is just about heart. My WH doggie paddled the swim of his 1st triathlon, rode a mtn bike, and then kicked a** on the run. My first tri (at age 16), I had a bikini on with 55 degree Lake Michigan water, experienced a bit of a hypothermic shock as a result, did backstroke the entire time since I couldn't put my face in the water, wore my swim cap under my helmet (not knowing you are supposed to discard that), rode a "beater" bike with no brakes or gears, and ran in my soccer shorts. Oh how things have changed! Now, I have all the fancy gear and my bike probably is worth more than my car!

K-

You just have a couple of weeks left. Oh yeah... I'm in good shape, I could finish. My weakest would be the running. I could do okay up to about 4 miles but then... yuck. So 26 miles seems like a long car ride. I swam last winter in some major tournaments in St. Louis. Took 2nd in 3 races in my first tour. Not too bad. Okay times. It was fun and gave me something to work on as I was swimming for fun.

2scared

Yep...2 weeks from now, I'll probably be eating my carbo-loading dinner for my big 140 mile adventure in Kona.

I think 2.4 miles is a long way to swim, 112 miles is a long way to ride, and 26.2 miles is a long way to run...add the three together and it is just pure craziness. I admit that I am insane! To top it off, there will be 100 degree heat radiating off those lava rocks and those strong island winds to blow me off my bike...yikes! Let's hope the water is at least calm...a few years ago, there was a storm which caused the ocean to become a big washing machine.

Where do you usually swim in St Louis for open water competition?

K-

Creve Cour lake. It beats the mississippi.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I've been swimming in good ole Mississippi River...well, rather water skiing. They always warned us about the current and undertow...lots of drownings. I'd imagine a lake (probably cleaner) would be better...is it still pretty warm?

I was in St Louis a year and a half ago for a triathlon expo where I gave a nutrition clinic. It was in a very nice new facility with a pool, waterslide, and gym and not too far from a large park with a lake, running trails, and boat launches...wonder if this is the same place you swim???

2scared...fogless...posted this thread on the board but thought I'd get your input too. I really think I may be holding hope for something my husband really doesn't want with me anymore...and that is our marriage:

I was just reflecting back on these past 4 months, which have been the worst of my life. I think I just may not be getting it....my WH seems very convinced that he doesn't want to be married to me anymore...thoughts? Am I just one BIG loser hanging around for something that seems so hopeless???

Here are some of his responses to me via e-mail (from June to most recent):

I know that hold hope for us in the future…actually believe we’ll have a stronger bond if we can get through this bump. Do you hold hope for us? I'm not too sure about this. As I said, I think just the type of person you are may not fit into the life I want to lead, and its not that i want to go out and drink all day and night, but just want someone I can hang out with who enjoys those things from time to time. That is very hard for me to say, because I know it hurts, but I feel like maybe you still have a belief that we can just start over and all will work out, and I don't want to keep giving you false hope. I hope all this makes sense...sorry I'm not really good at talking about it out loud...i'm like my dad that way

I know this is hard. I also know you are the same person you have always been, and I don't want you to change that...in fact you can't change...you might for a bit but you would end up unhappy. I'm sorry I didn't give you more of a chance and I'm sorry for what I did outside our marriage. I just hope you can find happiness again. In fact I know you can because you are such a smart/funny/beautiful/strong/independent woman. Maybe we can go for a run or something this weekend.

Again thanks so much for helping me out. I seriously doubt anything will ever come of this or any other fire test I take in the next 9 months before my emt expires, but oh well...I gave it my best shot. Also, I am sorry this has all been so painful. Even though I know this is the right move for me (and for us) the one thing I have hated was seeing you hurt. That is one of the reasons I haven't called much is because I know all of this is still so fresh and it will just bring more pain for you. I am so glad to hear your training and racing are going sooo well. You have really worked hard to get where you are, and it shows. I'll be interested to follow how you do in future races...maybe even turn pro? You definitly have the ability.
Anyway, thanks again for your help and take care.

I hate to keep bringing this up...it seems like you aren't allowing it to sink in. I am not ending our marriage because I cannot confront my feelings, or that I want to be with a bunch a other women....I no longer feel for you the way I did when we got married. I'm not in love with you anymore. I hate having to keep saying this, because I know it hurts. But it doesn't seem to be registering with you, so I have to keep saying it. After I say it, you seem to accept if for a bit (like last week), but then you sink back into "we are just working it out" mode, which is not the case. I'm very sorry. I feel like if we just stay apart for sometime, then you will be able to move on with your life and kick [censored] in all aspects as you always have. I will always be there to be a friend if you need me, but we won't have the same relationship as in the past.

As I've said repeated in the past, this is not about you. You cannot make me fall in love again with you. I am past that point now. I am trying to move on and you NEED to do the same. I am sorry for being blunt, but it needs to be said.
I am glad to hear you are getting out lots, and that training is going well.

I am just telling you what I've told you from the beginning...that I am not in love with you anymore, and that I am sorry.

There is no one reason why this happened, and it certainly isn't anything you can change. People fall out of love all time...I wish it was as cut and dry as one event that made this happen. My heart just changed...I'm sorry I can't explain it better, you will just have to accept it. Maybe I wasn't ready for marriage, I don't know. You are definitely the same person you were when we met, so it is nothing you did. I've just not been happy with our relationship for awhile and it has nothing to do with outside factors such as work or FF. I know you are a very determined person, but the feelings of someone else (me) is something that you can't control. I need you to start looking at what is going to make your life without me a happier one and move towards that. This is not going to be a fun/easy time for either of us, but it is just something that has to be gotten through. We will both move on and find happiness, though neither one of us knows exactly what that is just yet (including me).

As I've said repeatedly you are not a bad person...ask anyone and I'm sure they will and already have told you...you are a great person. You are super nice, caring, funny, smart and beautiful. You are the same person I met 4 years ago. And you are going to have an easy time finding someone who wants to be with you when you get to the point that you want to put yourself back out there. You are not the shy/isolated girl you were in college. You are a strong, outgoing and successful woman with tons of friends throughout the running/triathlon community. I hate that we are going through this now, but in my heart I know you are going to be just fine and will find total happiness again...it just takes time. Take care.

So you went out on a date last night? Good for you. It doesn't sound like it went all that well, but it is a step in the right direction, and I know in time you will be able to let go of thinking about me and just enjoy yourself. Anyone I know? How did it get set up? Sorry, just curious...its really none of my business, so you don't have to answer if you don't want to. Hope you are having a good day.

I'm sorry but counseling isn't something I want to do. I completely understand if you need to go to help you get over what is going on, but it is not something I am interested in. Sorry I didn't reply to you previous email, but things have been crazy here, and in all honesty, I really want to try and help you move on, and less contact is the way for that to happen. If you talk to me every week, I'll always be on your mind. Believe it or not there will be a time where you don't think about me all that much anymore. It just takes time.

You really need to make sure you are going to a counselor about this. You are not able to move on, on your own, I can see that now. If you aren't seeing someone already, please go see someone. As for me, I've spent the last year working out my issues and while you may think it is unfair that you weren't involved, hopefully now you see that it didn't involve you...it was something I had to work out for myself. I did work it out and I came to my conclusion, and I am happy with it.

You need to focus on what a strong person you are and how you have the opportunity to make yourself into anyone you want to be now. Go out and live life...race races...meet people...be outside...have fun. I know you have all that in you...you need to let it out again.

As I mentioned many times before you can't say what causes love...and thus you can't say what causes love to end. However, you seem to be obsessed with reasons why....here is a list. These are just things that are popping in my head, changing any of them now is not going to save our relationship.

I was working all time
You were working all the time
When we were together we didn't talk much, I just vegged and you played on the computer
With time off you only enjoyed activity
I enjoyed just hanging out a lot
You were training everyday of the week including weekends
I wanted to go out and drink and just hang out with friends
I began to think of you as just a friend
I felt guily for going out with my friends, for no reason
I was attracted to other women
I had an affair
I enjoyed the affair
I am not sad that it happened
I just don't want to be married anymore
I am in general a loner
I am enjoying my life right now

I hope this helps you get some closure. You need to be strong and go out and live the lifestyle you love. I know you will be fine in time, but you need to at least start to move on regardless of whether you understand my motives or not.

Why did you pay for your July rent out of my account? You have tons of your own money...I am more than willing to help play shared costs...as in I still pay for all your medical, dental and just paid the car insurance as well. But your rent has nothing to do with me...especially July forward. Please let me know your thoughts on this.

If I was there I your roommate I would only pay for half the rent not the full amount. If you want me to write you check for $1461 (half of $975 for Aug-Oct) I will. I think even that is pretty much bull**** though. Just because you got dealt an unfair hand doesn't mean I have to pay your rent for you. If it was just an issue of not having your checks that is totally fine, I am more than willing to help you out when you are in a bind (like dropping you off and picking you up at the airport). However you also didn't split your account even with me, so you held something for yourself too. I'm not hiding my 401K from you... that is stuff from like 6 years ago, that i don't even look at anymore...think there is maybe $3,000 in it, but it is locked up till I am 65 years old. I'm not even sure what bank it is in?? So on top of not splitting your account even, you also have money in your trust fund...you are doing just fine money-wise, so please don't do anything out of spite that will turn this ugly.

Hey, I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I know neither one of us wants this to get ugly, so I'll try and be more understanding. Things have just been too crazy at work and I am really stressed out. I hope you have a great weekend. I need to go get a zip disk so I can get you your files. Once I have them on disk, I'll bring them over.

Sorry I didn't get back to you last night, but my phone is almost over on minutes (i don't get how?) so Im trying not to use it for the next week. All went fine with me giving notice. I think Beth was a little freaked out, but she is doing fine. Everyone seems to be real happy for me so that is good. Not much else going on...I was here till 8:30 last night with Beth trying to get stuff for the Board of Directors meeting ready. Hopefully things will slow down a bit from now on, but probably not. Oh well, just this week and next!!!

Be strong, but be safe...you're gonna dominate on race day.

Just wanted to wish you good luck this weekend. Just stay calm and focused and race your race. You will kick [censored]. You've put in the training...now let it work for you.

So I saw the results of Vineman. Looks like you had a great time...and you qualified for Kona? I'm sure you will totally kick [censored] at Wisconsin.

So did you pay the full rent out of my account this month? Reason being is that I am giong to write you a check for half of each months rent thru October, as I think half is very fair. Let me know what you did for this month so I can take that into account. Again, congratulations on a great race!!

With regards to the move, since I don't have any furniture of my own, there is nothing to move, so I won't need any help. I do want to have a conversation about splitting up our belongings though. I am going to have to buy a bed this weekend and have it delivered so I have something to sleep on, but other than that, I won't have much in my new place...not even plates or glasses. I will probably go out and buy a few cheap neccessities so I can get through daily life until we decide who gets what. My lease is for a year. My new address will be . Today is my first day of work, so things are pretty crazy for me right now. Perhaps not this weekend but the next we can sit down and go through everything.

As for seeing anyone, I've been out a few times with girls I have recently met. One is a girl that I was set up with via Donnie's aunt, she is moving out to SD from Phoenix. The other is a girl I met at the beach during my recent intermission between jobs. Both are very nice.

I hope you have been trying to meet new people as well, as that is the best way for you to move on and heal your heart. I wish you only the best Kim and I know that because of the person that you are, you will have no trouble meeting people once you open yourself up to that possibility.

All else is good, though it was hard to get up and come to work this morning after so much time off!!

No, it wasn't a set up, she just wanted us to meet cuz the girl is interested in working or volunteering with animal rescue and I had done that in the past, so she wanted me to tell her about the different organizations around town. From there we ended up going out.

As for working it out....Kim, as I have stated SERVERAL times before, I've already given this a lot of thought and made my decision. I know this is hard, which is why we have been taking it very slow. Unfortunately, I don't have time to discuss this right now, as I've been assigned a deadline already and need to make sure I meet it. We can talk later tonight after 9pm if you want to call.

Think you leave in a week or so, so just wanted to say good luck in Wisconsin. I know you aren't racing or even doing the full race, but have a good time and stay healthy.

Good luck with your races and training this weekend! I will try and give you a call on Sunday or Monday, as I need to give you your insurance card, and I also got your SBC bill again. Have lots of fun this weekend, it sounds like you have lots going on.

I was out of town this weekend. From now on, instead of just stopping by, call me first and we can set up a time to meet if I'm not home. As I said before, you don't really need the bill, you need to call Time Warner Cable and have them switch the name. You can ask them to forward you a new bill then, or just pay over the phone by credit card. Hope all else is well and that your training is going good. Best of luck to you in all aspects of your life.

Glad to hear you had a good time. Hope your prep for Kona is going well. I'm sure you will do great. Take it easy.

As I have stated from the get go, I am ready to move on with my life. I have told you to try and do the same, though it seems like you are still holding onto hope. No I was not out with the girl from before, I told you that ended a long time ago and she doesn't even live in the state anymore. I have however gone out on dates, as I mentioned to you before. I hope soon you will be able to try and find new men in your life. You are a great person and need to let other people in to see that. I know you will find love again, though it may be hard to imagine right now.

My statement about good luck was not a statement to make you think I never wanted to speak to you again. But as I've said in the past, it is not a good idea for us to talk too much early on, as it seems to give you false hope. I want you to be able to move on, not dwell on the past.

For now just focus on your umcoming race. It is the goal you have been going after for years now. We can talk about our relationship after your race is over.

Thoughts???? Do I really have any hope in this cause?

Me: 28 yo FW of 3.5 years
Him: 30 yo WH who had 4-month affair last fall, ended it, dropped bomb in May, left me, signed year long lease elsewhere and living life as a bachelor (including dating). No divorce papers filed thank god...still hoping, should I be?

K-

Do I think you have any hope? There is always hope... He is fog bound and can't see a foot in front of his face. At this point it's still very fresh. Yes!!!! There's hope!

What will it take to change him... How long will it take???????

I don't know. Stay true, you are doing great. Don't even think about giving up yet.

There's a saying around here... It ain't over till it's over. And it ain't over yet!

2scared