Well I guess it was bound to happen.
OM must've called WW and told her I sent the proof.

She is angry, sad, spiteful, vengeful.

says " I asked you not to give it to her ! Why did you send it just because SHE asked ? !!!"

Says its all over now, theres no chance of saving our M.

I do wonder if this was the right thing to do for ME, although it was right for OM GF.

It is the day of OMs estranged son's funeral today too. I am working away.

I feel terrible like I did a really bad and stupid thing. My hands are shaking.

Dear God, please use this mess for good. And do not make my WW finally leave over this.

And let me be functional for the day, I am wrecked right now.

Bob,
I feel you did the only thing you could do, please don't beat yourself over it. Your W must let go of OM! It's not up to you when she will do this. It may take weeks or months for my W to accept she must give up her A partner. You did nothing improper. Think about it Bob, why would she not want OM GF to know the turth?
So it would be safe to reignite the A at a later date is why.

You did the right thing. I did the right thing going to PlanB and accepting the fact my W is not in our home. These hard things that we have done, are not of our own choice. If it were up to you and I we would be happily married enjoying our lives and loving our wives. It is our wives who have forced us into these very uncomfortable, painful positions of applying tough love, boundaries and the upheavel of their destructive fantasy worlds.

Take heart Bob, this too shall pass. This was inevitable and if exposure forces her out the door I dare to say, she would have went anyway...just at a later date. I know that's how I sleep at night, or don't sleep at night. I hope you catch my meaning.

Hey BP,

You hang in there!!! Remember, YOU are not responsible for your W's feelings...

You're doing a great job and doing what you feel you must do to protect your family. You are in a battle for your family right now, and you are winning...

Your W may leave, but I suspect that she won't... Think about it:

* OM doesn't want her...
* Your W doesn't have the finances to start out on her own...
* You've been in a great plan-a...
* She's in withdrawal from the fantasy of the A
* She will eventually come out of her fog... it may take a while, but she will.

You can acknowledge her anger, but don't try to "fix" it for her... it is HER responsibility!

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Bob Pure

I just wanted to let you know that I have been following your story.

Hang in there!!!!! Her reaction is normal!!!!
Of course she is mad and "someone" has to be responsible.

And of course this "someone" is "you" for her right now. She's in complete "fog".

You didn't do anything wrong!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hugs
bb

RIF 90 your summary of the facts is true, but I am still frightened. I pray she stays in my house an dlife while she works out her anger against me.
She told me once before that I had thrown away any chance of saving our marriage, yet she stayed.

I pray she will do the same now.

I am frightened.

Blondblossom, I know you are right.

I know that the lie at the heart of this affair is now completely out in the open. There is no more deceit.

I pray this does not work against me.
I want wy wifes love bcak and today I did something which has made her very sad and angry.

* sigh *

If she has made me dinner when I get home, we'll be OK. If not, well....we'll see. That could be a shibboleth.

I have a big day at work today - press interviews and stuff. I am normally good at this but all I can think of is my lovely wife and how angry I have made her. I pray one day soon she realiss that it was braver for me to do this, than not. I did it out of love, not spite.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
<strong>She is angry, sad, spiteful, vengeful.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....and very predictable.

Bob, you knew to expect this, right? You ARE Public Enemy #1. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Don't forget that not only were you doing the right thing for GF, you were also doing the right thing for Bob and your wife - hopefully driving a stake into the heart of the affair from the other side.

Also, the fact that she responded as expected provides comfort in knowing that she's still a normal WS. Thus, further decisions on your part can be based on tried and true approaches.

WAT

Hey Bob, WAT is right. They always get mad, but they always get over it. She will get over it. What you did just did MORE to burst her little fantasy bubble than anything else you could do. She realizes that her valued love letters look pretty sleazy when exposed to the light of day and is probably quite embarrassed.

Bob,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...but I am still frightened. I pray she stays in my house an dlife while she works out her anger against me.
She told me once before that I had thrown away any chance of saving our marriage, yet she stayed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never fear the truth when you are morally right.

Unless your W hit the lotto, how's she going to live on her own? Again, I don't think the OM's GF is going to welcome her into her home... and you said that the OM doesn't have the means to support your W, much less himself...

Past behavior is a good indication of future performance... Your W didn't leave the last time... she most likely won't this time. My W threatened to leave when I found out about her first A... be she never did... Common threat by many WS...

Try to focus on your work today... don't worry about dinner... if she has it ready, thank her... if not, then take her and the kiddos out to Chuck-E-Chees for dinner... make it a family night...

Remember, you are not responsible for her feelings... Keep up your plan-a and be the best that you can be... Be her knight in shining armor... she's going to need it... she's crashing hard righ now...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Bob, of course your wife is angry. Did you really expect any other reaction? You are a very intelligent man, so I know you didn't, but it IS hard to be the target of that anger and it IS normal to "second guess" your actions because of what you fear might be the fallout from that action.

If I can say anything that might give you some comfort it would be this; virtually nothing you do during your wife's withdrawal is going to register in her as a "positive," at least not until later when she clears the fog and can see just what you did during a horrendous time. Right now this is more akin to the "buzz bomb" attacks on London. As you push against this "evil," the evil will try to fight back to terrorize you. Stay the course. As WW II was long, so will this be. But the cause is just and the outcome ,and in God's quite capable hands.

While I know it might sound a little wierd, she is hurting and she is focused on "her" pain right now. She will interpret anything that she thinks will increase the "pain" (i.e., "attacks"{truth} on the OM, the probable increased destabilization of their affair, etc.) as "hurtful" to her and will react with emotional anger, her "Taker" in complete control.

It's a tough time to go through, no doubt about it. But it's the RIGHT thing to do, and the right time to do it. THEY "prospered" in deceit and lying and secrecy. That is HOW sin is allowed to grow and appear "justified" to the sinners involved.

But the "light of day" exposes the sin for what it is, ugly and totally self-indulgent. No longer can it be hidden and ignored, it must be dealt with. Yes, the continued denial and anger may still be there for a while (how else to justify something that THEY know is wrong for them to have engaged in?), and it IS necessary for your wife to see the depth of your pain and anguish also. There will be a time when she is past withdrawal and will begin to understand just what SHE has done TO you. That's when the guilt will replace the anger.

Here's another reality; one can "run and hide" from God, but there is no place one CAN run to where God cannot see and know exactly what you are doing. Your wife knows this too, even though she still thinks she can. Remember the pain that Judas felt when the reality of what he had done hit him? The utter contempt for himself that Peter felt when the **** crowed and the reality of his weakness and denial of Christ hit him full force? This is just the beginning for her pain. Before long her anger will begin to be directed at herself for what she has done. THAT is when you will need to be the "model of forgiveness" that she will need, her anchor even when she thinks that you should "hate" her. That is when recovery will begin.

Bob, right now you are still in the "destabilization of the affair" mode. You WILL hear "hateful" things. She WILL very likely threaten to leave, may actually leave for a while "to get her head straight" or some other escapist reason.

She WILL likely try to blame you for everything and tell you that there is "no hope" for the two of you. Don't believe it.

Let me add a caution for you because I see you as an "impatient fixer". Since you have admitted to your "nature" of seeing things in a "short time frame" to fix (i.e., money, etc.) you have to remind yourself EACH DAY that relationships DO NOT grow, or get fixed, in a short time, especially when there has been deep emotional wounds that need healing. You have to think about it on the basis of a "medical recovery" from a severe trauma. The GOAL is full recovery, the reality is that it will take and be accomplished by "one day at a time," sometimes painful to get to the "next level" but NECESSARY for continued healing and restoration. It requires a firm commitment to "see it through to the end," to endure when necessary, to forgive and to ask for forgiveness whenever it is needed, to "patiently wait on the Lord and His timing."

Remember, too, that there ARE two people involved in the affair. Your wife can fantasize all she wants, but she cannot control the OM's thoughts and behaviors any more than you can control hers. Right now he is getting a "full dose" of reality. Right now, the things that he thinks are important to him are in danger because of HIS actions. Right now he is facing the reality that nothing he can do will ever give him "one more day" with his deceased son. His "time" for that is over. He cannot make it "right" anymore. The book on that part of his life is closed.

Now his relationship with his GF and the child of that relationship is in direct danger of being "ripped" from his life too. All because of HIS actions. So let's "assume the worst" for a minute. Suppose in their anger and pain they decide to "take up their affair again." So what? Do you really think that their "fantasy" can ever be rebuilt again? No more so than the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, or Santa Claus can be "real" to a child anymore once they have "learned" or "been told" the truth. There is a fatal crack in their relationship...and it's called REALITY. Truth or fiction? Truth wins every time.

There comes a time in every Wayward Spouse's life during recovery when they "wake up" one day and realize that what they have been seeing from their Betrayed Spouse IS love. It's not the "Hollywood" version of "exciting and tingly" lust feelings. It is the sort of love that "bears all things." We humans ARE by nature a selfish race. "Looking out for Number One" is our NORMAL behavioral stance. It takes LOVE to deny self, to take up your "cross" daily, and to serve another for their good.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. (1Cor.13:4-8a, NIV)

If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to some extent - not to put it too severely. The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. The reason I wrote to you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And what I have forgiven - if there was anything to forgive - I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes. (2Cor.2:5-11, NIV)

For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. (2Cor.16-20a)

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, fadtons and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal.5:19-6:2, NIV)

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. (Eph.4:29-5:2, NIV)

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for the saints. (Eph.6:10-20, NIV)

Bob, the battle has been joined. Check your armor and stand with God in faithful obedience to His commands. "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of is love."

God bless and strengthen you in this time of trial. May you feel His peace and comfort and rest in the sure knowledge that God IS in control.

You did the right thing.
Sure, she is going to sit around and thow accusations at you because you are not giving validity to her affair by supporting her in it, and sadly, part of what she may be feeling is a sense of betrayal because you are not protecting her.
It is probably quite an eye opener, goold ol'trustworthy Bob isn't there for her in a way she knows he knows is important.
Gads, it's like buying a drunk more beer and when you won't for their sake and yours, they turn on you.
Because they are DRUNK. That's her, it's becasue she is in her fog.
Can guarantee you that a year from now, if this woman is the person , deep down inside, that you believe she is, not only will she be back in your arms, she will be humiliated and horrified by herown behavior.
Your steady heart, standing your ground, will win out in the end.
Lay your foundation, keep your boundries and as much diginity as you can. You will thank yourself for being firm with love.
Been there, I know this is true. Worst experience of my life and maybe yours. Keep your faith, whatever your faith may be, and you will keep your strength.
YOU DID THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU TOO.

Bob, I only wish I would have done this 2 1/2 years ago. I agree with everyone else you have save yourself a painful future. Whether she stays or goes is not written yet. But if she stays and you always leave the door open for the A to re-ignite you'll never have a full nights sleep. You have brought closure to a very painful chapter in your life. If can only get better. I admire your courage.

Bob:

Good for you!

Sadly, it sound like your WW is showing her true self. Sorry to be blunt, but is this the type of person you want?

Live your life. You only have this one chance at it. Go on, recover, rebuild. If you WW suddenly wakes up one day down the road, well good for her. By then, you will be seeing that you are a worthy and honorable man, who does have value, who brings value to others' lives, and who is worthy of the love of a good woman.

If she sees that, then she'll know what she threw away.

I just said a prayer for you Bob. hang in there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sadly, it sound like your WW is showing her true self. Sorry to be blunt, but is this the type of person you want? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uphill - Give us all a break. What a totally selfish and self-serving question. None of "wants" the person who is drowning in an affair, we want the person we know our spouse can be. We also know that during an affair, we are NOT going to hear "nice things" from our spouse. We ARE NOT focusing on "today," we are focusing on helping our spouse through a "major illness" and into restored health.

Your attitude displays a lot of your own personal pain and a very unforgiving nature. I would surmise that if anyone did anything that you felt was a personal affront to you, you would cut them out of your life with no chance for change or redemption.

Thank God that God did not view us with that attitude.

That IS NOT, at the very least, a Marriage Builders attitude.

<small>[ September 01, 2004, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bob Pure:
Well I guess it was bound to happen.
OM must've called WW and told her I sent the proof.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So sorry, Bob. I'm only glad you knew this would be the reaction.

I (I can only imagine how you feel) am *very* confused over one thing. I think I know the answer--which is bad--but...Why did the OM contact your WW? I guess so much for him wanting to rebuild his family--one of which he is burying today. Priorities are still very much disarray with him, I suppose. Shouldn't have to worry about him, though.

Keep yourself busy. Get prepared for this trip. Keep your head up. Keep praying.

Bob et all,

I know Uphill's post is not MB proper; however, being one who went through the rollercoster ride for 15 years, I have to agree with him.

I found the following on Barbara De Angelis's website, and am posting to show a somewhat different view. I changed the genders. I am tired of everyone assuming that men are the only adulterers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How Should You Deal With a Cheating Partner Who Denies Having an Affair?

I just found out that my wife of fifteen years has been cheating on me. I’ve suspected this for a while, but wasn’t sure until a friend confessed that he knew about it. I confronted her with the information, but she still totally denies it. Should I try to keep my family together and hope she will get over this?

What do you hope your wife will “get over” – Her total disrespect for your feelings, her flagrant dishonesty, her moral weakness, her selfishness, her denial, or her lack of morality? Wake up and face the facts! Not only is she having an affair and breaking your marriage vows, but when confronted, she doesn’t even have the courage and decency to tell you the truth! She is treating you like dirt. You know it, and she knows it.

Here is the real question you should be asking yourself: “Why do I want to stay with a woman who is behaving in this disgusting manner towards me? Why do I want to remain married to someone who obviously doesn’t care enough about me to be honest?” Remember – affairs are symptoms of relationship already in trouble. Even before the infidelity, I have no doubt that there have been some significant problems in your marriage, whether you acknowledged them or not. So ask yourself, is this marriage as it truly is, not as you wish it would be, worth saving? Or has it been over for a while, and you just haven’t admitted it to yourself.

…. Our fear of loss overrides our fear of being hurt or humiliated. Thus, we stay with women we should leave, put up with behavior we shouldn’t tolerate, and feel we will be successful if we “keep the marriage together,” even if that marriage is totally dysfunctional.

I think, in part, this is what’s happening to you. You speak about “keeping your family together.” So I ask you, what does that really mean? That you all get to live in the same house, even though your heart is broken? That none of your friends or family will think there is a problem because there won’t be an “official separation?” That your kids will mistakenly believe everything is fine as long as Mommy doesn’t move out, even though Mommy’s out screwing someone else? That’s not my idea of “together.” What you are describing is called “denial.”

If you want to be a good father to your children, and a loving caretaker to your own inner self, you will inform your wife that she has to move out immediately – no discussion, no excuses, no negotiation. By lying and cheating, she has lost her right to live with you as her husband and live in the house as part of the family. Perhaps being kicked out will wake her up out of her stupor and help her to see the light. If this occurs, she confesses the truth, and begs for another chance, you can consider the possibility that you may be able to resurrect your relationship only under the following conditions:

What To Do When You’ve Been Cheated On:

1. You and your partner physically separate immediately. If you wish to stay in your home, she should be the one who must leave.

2. If she wants another chance, she must immediately break off all contact with her lover – no phone calls, no letters, nothing.

3. She must immediately enter intensive therapy in order to determine why she had the affair, to understand what problems within herself and the marriage caused her to cheat.

4. You must also immediately enter intensive therapy in order to determine why you ignored the warning signs of her infidelity for so long, to deal with your feelings of anger and betrayal, and to take an honest look at the relationship.

5. If after some time, you both feel you are seeing your relationship through new eyes, and think there might be a chance for reconciliation, you will need to enter intensive therapy together.

6. If after undergoing intensive therapy together, you both feel you have learned enough to understand how your relationship fell apart, and feel willing to try again, you will need to start from the beginning. YOU CANNOT GO BACK TO THE OLD RELATIONSHIP. IT IS DEAD. IT FAILED. YOU JUST START FROM SCRATCH, BUILDING A NEW RELATIONSHIP JUST AS ANY COUPLE DOES.

This means you continue living apart and begin to date, getting to know one another again. You have new ground rules, new goals for yourselves individually and for the relationship, and new skills with which to create healthy communication and intimacy. You take it slowly, and see how it goes.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough how important it is to follow these guidelines if you wish to salvage a relationship that has ended in infidelity. And I know how difficult it may sound, and how much courage you will need to stick to your resolve when your wife is crying and pleading with you to forgive her, but don't give in. The only chance you have of experiencing a true and complete healing on this issue is to see the situation as it truly is, and to start treating yourself with the love and respect you would hope one day to receive from the woman you love.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Bob, this quote comes to mind. Forgive me if Foreverhers already wrote this quote. "The truth shall set you free." Just because your W and the OM wanted to continue telling their lies doesn't mean you or GF had to comply. Getting this all out in the open is the best thing.

I am going to write a disclaimer before I write what I'm going to write next. This isn't necessarily MB, but CV. So take it with a grain of salt. If she goes on blaming you I might say something like, "W, you have told me how wonderful your R is with OM. You have told me how you want to be with him. I'm confused. I would think if this is all so beautiful you would be happy the truth is out." OK, maybe you shouldn't say that. Just my fantasy life about your situation operating here. Hang tough Bob! We're here for you!

RAG, I think much of what you quoted from Barbara Di Angelis was pretty good. However, because of what I went through and what I've read about As, some of what she wrote is untrue. "Affairs are symptoms of relationships already in trouble." I just saw a CNN special on infidelity, and also the author of "Not Just Friends" both said this is a myth. As can happen in good Ms. In my case every star that could have been alligned to foster the environment for an A to occur were in place.

"You must also immediately enter intensive therapy in order to determine why you ignored the warning signs of her infidelity for so long" is a statement I also disagree with. In my case every gut feeling I had I confronted H. I asked him several times if he was having an A. My biggest mistake is that I was so naive I didn't understand how people become such liers in As. I actually thought if I asked my H if he was having an A he would tell me. My therapist told me months ago that sometimes the BS can do everything right and still there S will have an A, or lie about it.

Just my 2 cents. Plus, Barbara might be a bit more prone to recommend ending the M because I believe she has been Med several times herself. CV

I'm a newbie but sounds like you did the right thing to me. I know that I will be doing something similar when the time comes. Hang in there I'm praying for you.

Forevehers that was one of the most inspirational posts I have seen. Thank you!

CV55 said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Affairs are symptoms of relationships already in trouble." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is so very true. When I said this in a MC session WW looked totally confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But it is always true. In my case all the signs were there I just refused to deal with them.

C.

Bob,

Was this reaction a surprise to you? I think you need to work very hard on the Policy of Joint Agreement and Radical Honesty with your wife. I don't want to hear any excuse about how you can't---because your wife is fogged-bound and a liar.

The one-sided Policy of Joint Agreement states:

Never Gain at Your Spouse's Expense.

If you both practice that, you see how it becomes "mutually enthusiastic".

Now, you had an issue. The GF requested that you send her the phone records. What you should have done was to let your wife know that this happened, and discuss your proposed response (to send them). Your wife probably would have blown up---but you should try to keep her engaged in the 'brainstorming' process and come up with a solution that was agreeable to both of you. Let's assume that you couldn't. Then you tell her that while you respect her opinion and appreciate her feedback on this matter---you need to do this anyway.

You're being honest and demonstrating good negotiation techniques if you do it this way. The way you did it was behind her back. The result is the same (transfer of phone records), but the mechanism is much different, and the path you took cost you LB points.

Does it do "real" damage to your marriage? Probably not too much. But you need to start practicing the "correct MB way", if you want to rebuild this marriage.

Originally posted by K:

The one-sided Policy of Joint Agreement states:

Never Gain at Your Spouse's Expense.

If you both practice that, you see how it becomes "mutually enthusiastic".

Now, you had an issue. The GF requested that you send her the phone records. What you should have done was to let your wife know that this happened, and discuss your proposed response (to send them). Your wife probably would have blown up---but you should try to keep her engaged in the 'brainstorming' process and come up with a solution that was agreeable to both of you. Let's assume that you couldn't. Then you tell her that while you respect her opinion and appreciate her feedback on this matter---you need to do this anyway.

You're being honest and demonstrating good negotiation techniques if you do it this way. The way you did it was behind her back. The result is the same (transfer of phone records), but the mechanism is much different, and the path you took cost you LB points.

YES YES YES !!!!

This is way better advice than anything I have ever written to you ....

Do this K's way ....

****practice negotation techniques****

.... coz you're gonna need 'em.

Pep