and if I could, I'd send you all some real carne asada burritos from southern California........

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

I live in So Cal .... where do you buy your burritos?

Exposure ... do you think your W's office friend will be pro-marrige from what you know of her? This may make a difference of who you decide to expose to. Is there a church pastor or other authority figure your W looks up to?

Pep

Pep.....A little hole in the wall north of San Diego.....Makes em' like no others!

Regarding the pastor, unfortunately not. We used to go to church quite a bit but for all the wrong reasons we haven't been in a real long time. We are both Christians and we discuss God with DD but we haven't been to church.

I'm not sure about the feelings of the friend. I know that she'll be in shock as we have been viewed as the quinticential (sp?) couple. She isn't married, not even sure if she has a boyfriend. She and WW talk about once a month or so. Not someone really, really close but may be enough to have an impact.

The cocentric circle makes alot of sense. Honestly, we are pretty much separated from our families (other states) and WW's best friend is going through her own issues. Her most trusted confidant (sp?) is her sister which lives in another state. WW's sister has been in our lives through out entire marriage. I've contemplated exposing to her but I know regardless of the situation, she'll take WW's side (blood thicker than water)....WW hasn't told anyone even though early on I told her she needs to at least talk to someone.

The circle actually revolves around two aspects. The friends we've made being Brownie leaders and WW's work folks. I've got two pretty close options and I plan on using one of the couples for Plan B coordination/contact. Kinda uneasy about asking such a big "favor" considering they have three children themselves.

Sound reasonable? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LS - your logic and considerations all make sense to me. I wish I knew the exact answers, but none of us here can know.

I'll stick with my earlier advice and recommend you do little until you bounce it off Steve.

I do concur with your conclusion regarding contact. It's hard NOT to believe contact is continuing, or at least sought by her, given her penchant for "alone" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> time and the phone thingy.

WAT

That's what I'll do. I'll do very little until Thursday morning......

WW finally left for the very first time. Tonight (07 Sep) at 1000. It's been a he** of a day....

Earlier I posted that WW said she'd stay until DD went to sleep. We had about an hour of conversation tonight and I found out a few things.

OM called WW today and asked about the marathon. WW insisted that "I know you want no contact, but we just talked and that was it." Added "we work in the same company and when I have to call stores, blah, blah, blah." Confirmed contact and I watched her body motion. Got defensive, not loud or disrespectful, just defensive about her "friend" relationship with OM. Almost dropped the "what about your new phone" but didn't.

WW is very confused. Tells me her heart says one thing and her mind says another. Wouldn't tell me which one says stay home. Did tell me that "I don't believe we'll ever have trust again - you trusting me and me trusting you". I was confused. WW decided she can't trust me anymore because of the added exposure to OM's mother.

****Been gone 12 minutes and just called me to tell me she got in okay. I kept it short - about 15 seconds*****

I'm sad and mad and confused right now. WW said she'd be here in the morning before DD woke up. I let her know that I'd take DD to school and there's no need to come here that early. Pissed her off a bit because she went to get her work clothes (I thought she'd already put them in her car).

Maybe an LB, maybe a boundary.

I should work on my Plan B letter because I have a feeling that I won't be able to do this too long. I keep going back to one poster that said "Plan A for life". I'm going to try until middle of next week because this wondering where she is when she calls takes a toll on me.

Thanks for listening.......LS

I did want to add something positive. I told WW I'm counseling with Steve Harley and explained this isn't a local counselor, this is Dr. Harley himself (she knows of the HNHN book as I'm leaving that one out).

I asked her if she had spoken to anyone. She hasn't. I offered Steve H and said "they" always ask if I'll be alone for counseling.

WW said not now but maybe later. That's a first considering she "doesn't believe in counselors". I hope I can change her mind........LS

Odd....WW's been gone 1 hr and 9 minutes. She just called to say goodnight. Decided to invite her for breakfast. Figure that'll give me more opportunity to Plan A. She tossed in an ILY as well.

Sticking to the MB principles and "patiently" waiting to talk with SH.

Thanks again for listening and certainly thanks for any responses and/or experience hints.....LS

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lost,
Hey buddy how are you? I see things are still in a weird place with all of your W's fence sitting. My W was queen of the fence sitting, UNTIL I GOT TOUGH!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Yeah right! I fell off the Plan B wagon more than I was on, they would've kicked me out of the rodeo out of embarrassment. I wish I had the answers. You know my story, and it's confusing so lets just focus on you staying busy and sane. As WAT pointed out, I'm sure Dr. Harley will have the best advice. I'm still here partner and I'll be posting about my recent turn of events. I just wanted to show my support and let you know I'm rooting for you.

On exposure: My W tells me now that it was by far the BEST thing I could've done. She had been fence sitting since we reconciled 2YEARS!!! If I hadn't exposed to OM she may have conceivably fence sat until her and the fence became ONE or until OW grew completely tired of playing 3rd leg in our M dance. Of course, my W was PO'ed big time when I did expose. It's safe to say after I exposed her A, I slept with one eye open! You have the benefit of counseling with Dr. Harley so I'll let him direct you on that one. Personally I was more afraid of under-exposure as opposed to over-exposure. The problem is knowing if the A is ongoing or has it ended, and since WS's hide the truth pretty well, it's hard to know for sure.

So it's breakfast tomorrow huh? Be sure to update us on the developments. She says ILY? DOGGONITT she needs to show it. STOP FENCE SITTING! You're doing a great Plan A from what I've read and you reluctance to expose further unless ABSOLUTELY necessary shows your love for her not only as a BH but as a friend. She may not see it right now, but she's darn lucky to have you brother. Hang in there, it's never over until we say it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 02:22 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

Good job.

Can you see how conflicted she is?

You know why?

It's because of your good Plan A.

With the possibility of Plan B looming, you HAVE to keep up the pristine Plan A. Although Plan B is primarily for the sanity of the BS, Steve will not discount its potential impact on the WS. To this end, the biggest contrast between Plan A and Plan B is desired. This means the most effect occurs when going from pristine Plan A to the darkest dark Plan B. It's tougher with kids involved, but you'll do your best.

BTW, Steve is not "Dr. Harley." That's his dad, dubya.

WAT

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Thanks all. Really helps reading/understanding others experiences/thoughts.

I'm about 15 minutes away from talking with Steve H. Got so many questions and eagerly await his knowledge.....

WW only stayed gone one night. Came over in the morning for breakfast and complained the entire time about bad sleep, freeway noise, etc. I didn't really respond too much nor did I reaffirm the dual pane windows here at home.....

WW had gotten a sore throat during the marathon and used that as a reason "to stay here and have you (me) take care of me." Like a good Plan A'r...I did. WW went to sleep at 7:00 and didn't wake up until this morning. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

WW's already called me three times this morning. I know she's fence sitting and this is her way of keeping things "nice and easy" for her. I again suggested she open her own bank account and that was met with distant stares. During her second call to me, I tossed in a subtle "after the Brownie meeting tonight, you can call me from your place and tell me how it went". Her response "I'm like a plaque, you can't get rid of me." "I'm not leaving you and once I get through with my midlife crisis, blah, blah." It was said in a humorous way and I didn't let the cat out of the bag that "I'm not Plan Aing forever"......

I really need her to go to see what the "other side" is like.......

Time for Steve H......LS

Just finished counseling with Steve H. More clarity came my way....

It appears that based on WW's inability to completely move out, comments such as "I'm sorry I'm hurting you, etc.", he has recommended more Plan A with a some additions.

SH recommends (based on my Plan A) to start trickling out some frustrations such as how much this is hurting me and how I'm struggling with this, etc. Not always being upbeat, cheerful, etc. SH said that Plan B shouldn't be a complete surprise to WW. Essentially, execute an exceptional Plan A with indicators of a pending Plan B. That way I'm not going from "happy/cheerful/confident/etc" to "completely dark".

Some other recommendations was to keep the additional exposure in my back pocket. Based on the reaction from my initial exposure coupled with a plan to have WW contact SH, don't want to cause any type of withdrawal, anger, etc. Earlier I posted that WW said (for the 1st time ever) that "later she may talk with a counselor". I've got a plan to have her contact SH. I'll post if it works.

So board, I'm still continuing my Plan A/180. I'll reserve my moments (been alot lately) of anger/frustration for when I'm alone and when I can post them here. I'm pretty confident I can Plan A longer especially with a goal to have WW speak with SH. In the interim, I've got all the wonderful folks here and the ability to express my feelings (good and bad).

I will add that I've got some new direction as well. We're starting to attend church again. First time, this Sunday. I feel pretty good about that and have determined that although we talk about it with DD, it's time to bring our faith to the next level. I invited WW to go and I believe she'll be there with us. A couple days, we'll see.......

......LS