Going to bed now. Wouldn't it be sad if they got in contact with each other and all this progress went down the toilet ?

Please God no..

* night everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> *

Another fine day with WW. She is so much like my old W from a couple fof years ago sometimes it quite takes me aback. Funny, discussive, meeting my gaze like she really wants to...

She's not agreed to NC yet but she is IN NC ( bastphone not been used in 2 weeks now). My DD was off school for a techer training day today so we haven't related today, but we did stuff, shopped, etc with DD like a perfectly normal couple in love but for a deliberate witholding of affection by her for me ( and by me, to be fair - mustn't drown the girl).

If only NC is maintained I see some hope. We can both work our issues in this environment.

Like I said, this week has been better than most weeks in our M pre-A for a coupla years now....

How bizarre.

Bob:

I know it's important 2 you, but don't get bogged down by the need for NC right now.

Focus on the positive things, and on opening lines of deep communication with your W.

-ol' 2long

Bob:

I know it's important 2 you, but don't get bogged down by the need for NC right now.

Focus on the positive things, and on opening lines of deep communication with your W.

-ol' 2long

Hey 2long ! When U in london, so I can buy you a warm sticky English beer ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am trying to not be too swayed by the good anymore than I was by the bad. We have a Loooooong road to walk the two of us and there will be more good and bad.

NC is important to me as right now, despie ethe recent cessation of hoistilities WW hasn't put any skin in the game of recommitting to our M.

I don't want a 'pleasant' W still clinging to the A , I want a W openly committed to finding our lost love and rebuilding our M.

Its early days, 2long. This weeks been great, but it doesn't open a can of beans really yet. All I know is if she meets OM at this tournament Sunday, its all down the crapper, start again time. That would be a shame.

I disagree, 2long...that is one of the things that may have gone wrong in your situation years ago(not insisting on NC sooner). I think NC is important for Bob' W so that their M can continue on the path of recovery.
Any contact will only delay the process.

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Bob:

I arrive in London at 7pm on the 30th. But I'll have my family with me, and we're on a wirlwind tour for a 2ple days 2 see sights and meet my D's fiance's parents in Cardiff.

If you feel you can discuss NC now (like not before?), then by all means do so. But haven't you discussed it before? Doesn't she know it's what you need? How many times do you have 2 remind her?

Why the heck aren't you going 2 the tournament with her Sa2rday?

It seems that a "demand" for NC now should also include a demand that she 2uit karate, so that you will be assured that contact won't resume.

See? If you're willing 2 make demands (she'll hear NC as a demand, after all), you must also be prepared if she says "no".

Are you?
-ol' 2long

Trix:

I agree, 2 the extent that I "didn't insist on NC earlier", that has been the source of much of my troubles in the last 32 months.

However, I DID insist on NC SEVERAL TIMES since January 18th, 2002 (d-day). But I wasn't prepared for the "no" or "that's s2pid!" reactions, so I lost ground that I wouldn't have if I'd just kept my mouth shut until I was in a better position.

Now, things are so different that NC isn't the primary issue (though I did reiterate last month that I, and SHE 2, need NC). Penny believes that the "friendship" will even die a na2ral death if I just leave the contact issue alone for now.

I'm not saying that's right for Bob, but without coaching from one of the Harleys or Penny, he'd have a tough time going 2 plan B now, and I think he'd have 2 be prepared 2 do so if she says "no" 2 his demand for NC.

And it's always better if the WS WANTS NC for their own well-being. Means more than if it's force on them.

-ol' 2long

Bob,

Been lurking and reading about your good progress!!
Congrats mucho!!

That no NC is a nagging thing though. But it is still early.
k

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: krusht ]</small>

2long, We discussed NC after D-day then again last Tuesday. She said she was between a rock and a hard place, that she would go NC but couldn't give up refreeing right now. I said I've been living in a hard place, no rock...

I think SHE thinks she is already NC. Shes not MB aware remember - thinks all counselling is Bull and her A was unique, true love story. And shes nowhere near ready for SAA yet IMO.

The tourney Sunday I WILL attend just not all day. Theres horseriding lessons and a birthday party for the kids on Sunday, and the Tournament is just sitting silently on a plastic seat for 14 hours for my kids. No babysitter available. Its the story of our lives, me doing all the family stuff with the kids while WW selfishly supports other peoples kids in Karate while ignoring her own. It kills me. I WILL NOT let my kids have a totally dead day missing out on kids fun because of their Mom's utter selfishness.

Also, theres almost no chance OM will attend, I am only going in case he really is that stupid.
Consider this:

* He buried his son a week ago. No normal man would want to spend time away from his remaining son so soon after that tragedy.
* He is in the deepest **** imaginable with his GF as she knows about his infidelity
* He is reconciling hard by all accounts
* He knows ( I told him a month ago) that if he ever contacts OM again I will consider it an attack on my family and I will do anything in my power to defend my family. Not a physical threat - he knows I could destroy his reputation everywhere with the info I have about his criminal activities, his abuse of authotity etc etc.) And has stayed dark since I told him that
except for telling WW I sent the proof to his GF.And, yes, sorry, I probably would try to tear him a new [censored] if he DID show up. [Insert anti-BOB comments here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ]

I can't imagine him showing up BUT I have to show up there JUST IN CASE and at last to try to show some 'plan A' support for an important if hurtful part of WWs life.

WW considers my attending such events to be an enormous lB. She doesn't understand why I can't just give her utter trust like pre-a. Yes we've had the discussion about lying, and I also said that I believe she wants me to give her privacy to continue the A without my complaining.

On Saturday its 'set up tourney' day. it normally takes all evening and we wouldn't swe WW till late. However I/we POJAed that I will lend some muscle and organization to the setup so we can finish by 7:30 PM. That way we can get away to go bowling with our best friends and their kids as a family.
So Saturday's great, V positive, V POJA, V plan A. Sunday, the last tourney of this season, is not so good and I don't see what best to do.i will take the kids riding, then attend the tourney, then leave and take them to the birthday party.

Its not good plan A for OM & WW to see me trying to control screamingly bored and vocal kids at this fricking Tournament. EVRYBODY hates them except the oficials, and thats the truth.

Hope that sort of makes sense !

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>

Okay, 2long, thanks for the clarification.

It is still early in the game for you Bob.
I know you are still waiting for more of a commitment from your W. The signs are good since you've been given some hope that the fog may lift in time.

There is a part about NC that Harley writes about early in SAA which I read to my H shortly after the last D-day. That, I believe, was a turning point for him where I really saw that he 'heard' it and 'got' it. It took him a week or two more to make the commitment to NC. She's already had at least a couple of weeks without OM seeming to want contact.

Were you ever able to find out what OMGF wanted when she called last time? Did she ever call back again since you didn't have her number?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Were you ever able to find out what OMGF wanted when she called last time? Did she ever call back again since you didn't have her number?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trix, she called today and left a voicemail message that she would call again in 15 minutes (My provider v-mails are untimed, no idea whan they were left).

Presumably 15 minutes later she left another message. I have asked her to give me a contact number and a convenient time to call but she won't. Very nervous, or scared ? I dunno.

I'm loth to phone her home number with OM there, he's gone dark since his sons funeral, I don;t want to stir him up, but I will help OM GF if I can.

I pray she calls me NOW that my phone is active.

I worry, I wonder if OM isn't violent or something. Why else would she be terrified. Of contacting me other than by the serendipity of my phone being on when she calls ?

Double post...sorry

<small>[ September 10, 2004, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Trix ]</small>

Hoping she just wants to touch base to confirm NC or stories from your side. Or, to update you on their sitch?? I hope it is good news from her end. Then maybe you two can just agree not to get in contact unless there is some real concern or doubts about contact or change of status.

Fully agree Trix. When/if we speak again I will suggest only a NC risk/deviation plan for future contact. That would be better done by email.

I hope her counsellor friend is helping her though.

Going to bed. Lie in tomorrow whoo hoo !
What a difference a week can make.
Bless you all. I hope not to make my traditional 4:30 am post. I hope to be asleep. Lets just hope I can remember to not cuddle my WW, as has been my habit of 17 years....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I could get used to this WW awaking pleasant and amenable...must make sure I never take it for granted ever again....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Busy weekend for us ahead. Have a great one friends {{{{mb}}}}

OM GF called me today. A great hour's info.

OM is utterly repentant after my proof exposure : Wanted to come beat me upaparrently ( bring it on, you wizened, pensionable dwarf!), told everything to OM GF. Is starting counselling for bereavement and his womanising. Wants no [part of A or WW anymore. Won;t even tell her, hates it all. No contact in at least 3 weeks.

OM GF just wants to stay in contact with me secretly so as to share schedules of OM & WW so they don't meet.

She is doing great , has got strength from her counselling.Is plan A'ing like a queen it seems !

OM says sex was rubbish with WW and only 2 times anyway. Flattery and admiration was prime motivator ( could be rubbish lies of course).

He is fixing his broken life and reconciling like a mo'fo'. He won't tell WW that, and to be fair she wouldn't believe him anyway.

He is not attending any tournament where she will be unless om GF gives permission.
The A , it seems is dead and wasn't a big deal to OM.I can't tell WW any of this of course, but interesting anyway.

Be patient Bob. Be patient. All good news.

Sounds like great progress. Can you bottle up some of that and send it my way.

Wife went out to get her hair cut. Friend has a business out of her house. 7:30 AM appointment. she was up by 6:15 to get ready. Put perfume on.

Out the door by 6:50. WW has never been early to anything in her life.

Laid in bed thinking about your posts to me. Keep Plan A going. Separate out your emotions and just do Plan A. That's my goal. Expect nothing, but keep giving unconditionally.

TD, good stuff and bad stuff are all still traitors till our wives choose to work on US once again. Despite all the 'good' here, we have a LONG way to go.

Re:my post, its all attitude mate IME. Plan A is purposeful activity when you don't know what the Frick to do for the best. I know nothing, won;t adviuce but I can say it worked well for me/us. Plan A gave me head space, made me introspective in a highly practical way and also helped make me a safe place to land for WW.

I hope she wants to land soon !

Bless ya matey, be strong. {{{{TDVA}}}}

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: Bob Pure ]</small>