Fire, I am not upset when my H talks to women and he is not upset when I do. Why would we be upset unless there we are doing something WRONG?

I just don't know what to tell ya. If I were your W I wouldn't buy your story for a second. It just doesn't add up.

"what she doesn't know won't hurt her....."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by firemob1:
To me an affair is when two people have sex or become emotionaly attached. Niether happened.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, this is the part that is *really* not adding up...it's an honest question: Why are you here and why did you post then? (Not that you are not welcome...by all means, come wallow in the pain that we are in and/or caused and are trying by all means to rebuild...but if there's no problem...I just don't understand.)

The problem is she says it's an affair and we argue if I say it's not because I honestly feel it wasn't. Was it wrong? yes. Affair? no. I live in a small town, and when it's going around that I was having an affair, it kills me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by firemob1:
I live in a small town, and when it's going around that I was having an affair, it kills me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mob, I *do* understand this. My place of business is a small town upon itself and many rumors have been told of both me and my wife at various times. (The best? When my W was 7 months pregnant and the "rumor was that I impregnated her! HA! We were 8 years married at the time!) Anyway, I do understand the "defamation" rumors cause. But, why did you seek an answer if you already knew the answer?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by firemob1:
<strong> The problem is she says it's an affair and we argue if I say it's not because I honestly feel it wasn't. Was it wrong? yes. Affair? no. I live in a small town, and when it's going around that I was having an affair, it kills me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What difference does it make what you call it? It was still wrong. You could call it a pink gardenia, but that won't make the truth any prettier.

Why don't you just apologize for what you did instead of quibbling over semantics and being stubborn and bullheaded over labels?

Are you going to lose your marriage just because you want to be stubborn? Can you really afford to be so defensive and contrary in your position?

Mel, I don't think the good cop / bad cop worked, hon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Mob, I really don't know what else to say...you knew it was wrong--yet still did it. IMaybe the part that I don't understand is waht Mel said: Suck it up, apologize, do whatever you can *if* you want your marriage. Maybe you're asking us, "Did my W overreact?" Not to sound cold, but, "Who cares?" She reacted to something you did wrong. Now you have to make amends on what *you* did. Regardless of what you call it.

Best of luck!

Assuming for a moment that what you told us was the whole truth, I find your W's insistence that it was an affair and kicking you out of the house a bit extreme. I would suggest that you quietly investigate your W's whereabouts just to make sure that her behavior is not really a smoke screen to hide something else.

Firemob1,

If you have told us everything that happened then I would say you did not have an affair.

But...Do you understand that you were on the road to an affair? OW probably thought you were interested in her, you did go to her house. You talked to her about personal matters and you hid it from your wife. Those were the first steps. If the OW would have been agressive with you, kissed you, fondled you, would we be talking an affair right now? You had been drinking.

As far as you not finding the OW attractive? My H's OW was not very attractive, but she was very attracted to him and very aggressive. She noticed a weakness in him and that is all she needed. The affair was about him, not her. She stroked his ego and made him feel attractive, the fact that she wasn't attractive did not matter. It was about how she made him feel.

Take a close look at how close you came. If you and your wife repair your marriage now, before an actual affair occurs then you will be saving each other a lot of pain. Read the other stories here, see the pain and devestation an affair can cause the BS, WS and the marriage. It is not pretty.

Cathy

The answer to your question in you topic header is

YYYEEEESSSS

you keep beating around the bush with symantics and excuses. It may not have gotten physical but it did get emotional...maybe not alot of emotions but it wasnt an isolated incident.

You covered it up by not telling the truth and you covered it up by omission (same as lying).

What you did was wrong and you need to address it within yourself and then to your wife.

Stop blaming others (or situations) for your wrong doing.

sorry for the vent but my wife is doing the same S@#$ you are and it pisses me off.

Of course talking to somone is not wrong. Of course going to someones house is not wrong. Each situation in it of itself is not wrong but........ITS THE COVER UP AND THE LIES THAT MAKE THEM WRONG.

your answer is YES.

dear mob---think about this real simply---DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT, OR DO YOU WANT TO BE MARRIED????

stop worrying what others think----i live in a tiwn a mile square--tell me about small town gossip....they dont matter---you seem to be under the impression what others think is more important than what your wife thinks and feels???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by firemob1:
<strong> I did talk to her secretly on the phone, I have not seen or talked to her since the night my wife found out </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A good frame of reference is:

would you do that (talk to her on your cell) in front of your wife?

The fact that you SECRETLY talked to her speaks volumes of where you want this to go, subconsciously or not.

Do you want to fight for your martiage..
or power struggle words...

your choice.....

you emotionally attached and disclosed to a woman other than your wife....

the real question is what are you going to do about it
RIGHT NOW
TODAY

what is your plan to re-establish honesty which you broke
what is your plan to re-establish accountability which you have placed in question
and what is your plan to fix your marriage if that is what you want..

inspite of
and
sometimes regardless of what your wife wants right now...

what are you doing besides word games...

enquiring minds want to know..
cause what you are doing..doesn't sound like it is working...

children involved....??

ARK

crap

this REALLY pushes my trigger buttons.

this is how my H's A started.

Talking with a co-worker after hours online. I saw it, told him how uncomfortable and jealous it made me and asked him to stop.

I even said "would you like to see evidence of me talking to some guy online instead of spending time with you?" He said no.

But because he said he was not attracted to her, that they were just talking and no doing anything wrong, he decided to tell me he had stopped and then proceeded to hide it better.

Needless to say, I did not catch it in time and a PA started.

After all these years, he has told me that he continued to talk with her because it made him feel good about himself.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....

If nothing physical happened, please put all of your energy into healing your W and your M. You do not want to go down this road. Trust me.

Your W did what I should have done when I first noticed their chit chats online. Hopefully she got through to you and scared you enough to make you realize that your were THIS CLOSE to having a PA.

Dont argue over semantics. Realize that for her, it was a betrayal of trust. It does not matter what you think it is/was. Just fix it.

I agree with the others. If you W hadn't caught on when she did, you very easily could have fallen down that slippery sloap to an A. And it is slippery. WS's are not "bad" people. They are not "demented."

WS's are simply human beings, with weaknesses, just like the rest of us. Your weakness (ie, need for admiration, or whatever) was met by a woman willing to fill that Emotional Need for you. That is how it begins.

If you have told the whole truth here, sounds like yours was nipped in the bud. You might not currently think you would have gone down that path. We are all here to tell you that that is how all A's begin. My FWH thought he was impervious to having an A, because he is a "good person." And he is! But, he is human.

My H actually had a hard time believing he had had an A - after he had actually had it! Which causes a whole other set of actions, reactions, dynamics (like justification, denial, entitlement, etc.). It is a cycle that feeds on itself.

IMO, you are very lucky this got caught when it did. I think your action of NC with OW is best. Don't begin again and hide better - although it sounds as if not much gets by your W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Honestly, I would purchase "His Needs Her Needs," by Dr. Harley, and figure out what emotional needs are, and how you and your W can meet each other's in the future.

Sounds like you have a great foundation of communication and friendship. Don't let something else creep into your M again. Take this as a HUGE warning that SOMEthing is lacking in the M. Which is nothing to be ashamed of. Not many people are taught about having a healthy M. Usually, that knowledge must be sought out.

If you hang out here, you will discover lots of great resources to have a healthier, happier, stronger M.

SS

mob...I hope you had to just get some sleep or go to work...I truly hope we did not chase you away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I want to point out something to you, as Mel and I were giving it pretty good to you last night: sincerely (and I don't necessarily want to put words in Mel's mouth) we were trying to help you. Look at how many posts you received to your question!

But the hard reality *is* on this site. We--all of us, BS, WS, FWS, FBS--don't take this lightly. We've been there in one capaity or another. We see the signs. And we know the road you were headed down. We know the language, we know the manipulations, and in a "simple" post, a simple question you asked, we know.

We have all--in our own words--said the same exact thing: you were wrong. I'm not sure who posted to you, but:

"Do you want to be right, or do you want your M?"

That, my friend (sincerely), *is* the bottom line.

Best of luck to you.


PS I *am* still very curious about one thing, which you didn't get an opportunity to answer: Why/how did this OW get on the phone so quickly with your wife?

firemob,

Beyond the semantics of whether you had an affair, what actions are you taking now? Please think about how your wife feels. She's devastated that you were sneaking around and hiding things from her and probably believes that the affair was physical. And her friend telling your wife that nothing happened won't wash, as right now everything that she ever believed in is now suspect and she doesn't trust anyone.

If you aren't doing anything to try to reconcile with her, you're just proving her belief that you don't care about her. Write letters, call, send flowers, and do whatever you can to show that you love her and regret what you've done. Once she's willing to speak with you, the two of you need to discuss how to prevent something like this from happening again.

To be blunt, you've been stupid by following your instincts recently. It's time to get smart and think hard about your next actions.

Have you read any of the great books about this subject yet? I think "Not Just Friends" would be a good place to start.

Hoping that you can rebuild your marriage here. Best of luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by firemob1:
but nothing happened that night.
Nothing happened.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am starting to wonder if there is not some sort of "past history" you are not telling us about...? Might this be a kind-of "three strikes you're out" deal here? Has your wife ever been confronted with similar "nothing happened" behavior of yours in the past? Has your wife been hurt by your drinking in the past?

SOMETHING HAPPENED!

Your wife felt lied to and deceived. THAT HAPPENED.

You went out of your way to spend time alone with another woman. THAT HAPPENED.

You did something with full knowledge that "it was wrong", knowing it would not be "okay" with your wife. THAT HAPPENED.

You were out drinking with a woman in her home during the late after hours. THAT HAPPENED.

You returned to the other woman's home after you realized how upset your wife was about you're being there in the first place. THAT HAPPENED.

Here is my question.....

Your wife kicked you out. Are you here to tell us that your wife is insane, and your wife has made this drastic decision to kick you out ~for NO REASON ??? Is your wife REALLY this out of touch with reality?

I suspect there may be a sequence of reasons she may have not to trust you before this most recent incident.

Is this simply "the last straw" that tipped your wife into this direction ... pushing her further away from trusting your judgement?

Is this recent behavior of yours a good indicator of your usual lack of judgement and discretion?

You seem to be trying to squirrel away from responsibility here.... and I wonder about the alcohol part of this. Does your wife think your drinking has hurt the family? Do you have any DUI arrest history?

I think your marriage can be saved..... but only if you humble yourself a bit and show a willingness to see the damage you have brought upon your own house.

Pep

Are you still out there mob?!?!?

sorry i haven't been able to get on here. you see I only have access to the internet at work since I have been kicked out of the house. As far as a drinking problem, I don't. No DUI, go out with the guys once a month, drink occasionaly with wife at home. There has never been a trust issue in our marriage nor has there ever been accusations of an affair. But there are other issues we have delt with in our past that we got over and they are coming back to haunt me because she is bringing them all up. We went to counciling last winter and since then our marriage has been at its best. She was so happy and so was I. She was telling everyone how good it was. She said she fully let her guard down and now i went out and did this. She has forgiven me but says she may not ever trust me again and doesn't think she can live like that. That is my biggest obstacle right now. I won't be able to get back on here until Sunday. Thanks everyone who is helping me here.