I guess if were in your shoes, I would let it drop too, for now.

If you find she has anymore contact with him, you will be forced into Plan B again. Then I am sure you will get the NC letter first before she comes back.

Granted it was something on your "list" and she is disrespecting you, however she is home and there is NC.

If it continues to bother you, and your recovery is hindered then you will be moved to bring it up with her again, hopefully by then she will be really wanting you back fully and completely and she will do what you have asked.

I am no expert, but I would let it drop for now, unless like you said you want another useless battle. Only the followers of MB would really appreciate and understand the NC letter, to all others it would seems needlessly cruel, and even embarrasing to send to someone who you have already broken off all contact.

Still wishing you and Mrs. FM well,

Weaver

One more thing,

Did you write a NC letter when you ended your affair and decided to make it work with your wife?

Just love your wife, as she is now, she is there with you. Don't let anymore moments pass divided.

Life is short, and true love is rare. Rarer still is the opportunity to start brand new with someone whom you have such a history with.

Go love your wife and get back to the business of life, and all the glory it has to offer!

Weaver
I think your fabulous!

Thank you so much

I just want to do all things with love and understanding.

Yes I gave a No Contact Letter to OW..
many No Contact emails but none as short winded
and direct as my last..

numbers blocked.
emails blocked

OW contacted me a couple weeks ago asking me to come to the hospital....she had just been raped...
My wife was right there and I didn't budge...
didnt move...

I am committed.

10000000000%

but I respect your question
it needs to be asked and should be noted
this is not easy for her...
me being a WS previously
helps me understand the dynamics of the addiction.

Thank you for your honesty and ability to ask the right questions at the right times....and say the right things at the right time.

Thank you,

FM

How about a compromise?

Have her write a letter TO YOU vowing NC with the OM for the rest of her life.

What YOU are looking for is some sort of a commitment gesture, correct? You want her to acknowledge that her contact with OM is permanently OVER.

So.... why not come up with some sort of NC vow .... something she pledges herself to you in writing
Just a thought....

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I'm sorry, I don't buy the "just love her" line. She lied to you to get home. She said she would do something that is important to you, and she did not do it. One of the things you need to do in reconciliation is re-build trust. How can you trust her if she says one thing and does another?

After betrayal, trust is no longer given, it is earned.

Next time she goes to work, change the locks, and throw her bags on the lawn.

<small>[ September 11, 2004, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

FM....Your passion is coming through again! Can't offer any advice as I'm so far away from a NC letter that I can't even see the tree that'll make the paper.....

Rootin' for ya and learning from ya!.......LS

FM, you said she still felt pain of your own A...
She came back and tries to re-commit and rebuild your M.
She has to see you changed! As you have to see she changed too.

It's time now for BOTH of you to plan A!

For ME, the plan A is to re-attract your spouse and revive a wish in them to stay in M with you.
Also, no contact... but a great plan A most of times leads to it anyway.

You BOTH have to respect each other's choices of doings this.
She just might not like the idea of writing NCL.
So far there is NO contact - where is the problem? 'Just' that letter?? It shouldn't be, if everything else looks fine and you can see she IS there with&for YOU...

And this really should be taken as the fact:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by weaver:
Only the followers of MB would really appreciate and understand the NC letter, to all others it would seems needlessly cruel, and even embarrasing to send to someone who you have already broken off all contact.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF everything else looks promising, don't allow 'a just letter' to spoil it.

Folks,
Last nite was painful and important.
My wife expressed her feelings and I believe her words are genuine. She would like to maintain her dignity, and feels writing a No Contact Letter is demeaning since it was primarily the OM who broke off their R after my exposure. The No Contact Letter seems to be overkill for her. It was make it break it time, and this No Contact Letter was the goal for me. I explained all I could how important this NCL was to me, how words aren't enough at this stage of the game. There has been too, too many lies regarding OM. We POJA'd to meet an acceptable resolution, one I could live with for now.

1. Passwords to her work phone
2. Passwords to her cellphone

My W wants what all WS's want, to move pass the A and get on with the business of rebuilding our M. I am somewhat bothered by the attitude of lets just move on, but what else can I really ask for..besides the NCL? I am also bothered by the "DOUBLE STANDARD" my A was YEARS ago and I had to work my BUTT off to get an opportunity to recover my M. Folks please believe me when I say, it took me YEARS to get to the point where she allowed herself to invest emotionally in me. YEARS, almost 3 years from when she met OM. I am a somewhat upset that she felt an entitlement to have an A to begin with, and then continued an EA for the next 2 years with OM. I am livid about the sense of lets just move on, as if she will fall apart from rehashing and dealing with the past. It was only a month ago mind you that she lied to go see OM and attempt to salvage their friendship! I have big reasons to harbor resentment over being wronged. A's are wrong even if you do it 2nd, and its wrong to reconcile and to continue a R with your OP even if you're no longer physical! I don't see her doing all that wooing I did for the last few years. Where's my flowers being delivered? Where's my poems? Where's my time to go WOW she really wants me back in her life??? DOUBLE STANDARDS DAMMIT!!

But the question is?
Do I want to be right or do I want to be MARRIED?

I want to be married.

So we let go, we live in the here and now. We accept that right now is all we have and we love them anyway. We realize just because they don't display their love in all the ways we want, that doesn't mean they arent expressing their love in all the ways THEY can right now.

Lost,
What can I say friend? I love her still. Does she deserve it? Probably not! Did I deserve it? Probably not! No one deserves love except GOD, and our children, anyone else we choose to love is receiving a gift over and beyond anything they've earned. She's a beautiful lady inside, it's just A's cause you to act out of character and lose so much. I love her still.

John,
Change the locks and throw her stuff out? Hmmm, no sir,now if I find out that she has contact with OM and she hides this info from me? Then she will summarily be discharged from our residence.

Pepper,
Yes, I feel relieved just in the fact that we were able to compromise on the NCL. The fact she has given me access to her passcodes etc.. gives me a form of security. I can live with our negotiation and feel okay with it for now.

BTN,
Hmmm, I know it seems like my A was yesterday, but it was before our reconciliation, infact it was part of the cause for our separation almost 5 years ago. My A ended 5 years ago and when I attmepted to reconcile my M it was too late because my W had met OM and began a PA so of course now she didn't want me in her life. She wanted a D and to move on with OM, changed the locks, threatened all the usual legal crap. It burns me up that she felt entitled to her A and then continued their R even into our reconciliation 3 years after our separation. Changes from me? Yes, for years I have been a much different person, YEARS. IT is during our reconciliation that I saw changes from her, changes that were not positive. D-Day revealed WHY she had changed, and that she had lied about ending her A with OM, she felt that it going from PA to EA was good enough to return to our M! I need to see changes from her. She undoubtedly saw changes from me or she wouldn't have reconciled with me 2 years ago. In the end, we have made a nice little mess of our M and it's up to us to rebuild it.

Many of my issues must be somewhat suppressed until we can go to MC. I'm really not qualified to address them in a very healthy way with my W and I'm afraid dealing with them all now will create too much pain for my W especially. I'll do my best to save them for our sessions where a professional can aid us in resolving them in a loving caring way. I do not want to punish her, but I don't think she truly understands all the pain she's caused me over the last 5 years. I understand the pain I've caused, but I do remember it took time to get to a point of real clarity and acceptance of my actions and all that I've done. This is a long road and it takes time to heal, there are things that cannot be avoided, but they need not be tackled simultaneously. We can navigate these obstacles as they arrive.

As for now the NCL has not been written, but we used the POJA and came to an agreement that let us both go to sleep united and without tension. I believe there is no contact and as long as I believe that I'm able to proceed with the recovery stage. We should be setting up our first MC session this week, I'll be locating the Dr and definetly choosing a pro-marriage counselor. For right now, I need to relax and say it's okay. Let's take the pressure off a bit and enjoy our day. My W is here because she chooses to be and sometimes I need to remind myself she doesnt have to be, she's already proved that much right? I'm also making my own choices to trust her words, but I'll be looking for actions as well believe me. My eyes are open, my spidey senses are very receptive these days, but I don't want to be so paranoid that I detract from the serenity I would like our home to have. She's trying and that's big right now. Have your head and heart in it, be honest and realize we're very lucky to still LOVE each other after all this madness! Real love is enduring and manages to stay with you when its been painfully neglected. She is in the early stages of re-discovering just how special our LOVE is. I've been where she is and eventually she'll be moved beyond belief. I pray for patience and understanding. I want to be married.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

FM--gotta go now, thinking about you tough, friend. I will respond later. Good to hear you sat down with her--for your M.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

FM, I know your A was a long time ago (and it doesn't excuse her having her own).
I just think (and she said to you) that SHE still feels the pain, damage done, and it takes longer in HER case to get over it (not A itself, but her feelings for you as one of result, then impact of her A too...)

I (I <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) believe you invested very much and changed.
Just say - SHE has to see that too.
And she sees, why would she be back otherwise!?!

I'm glad you decided that way, for the time being, and think it's the best way.

Take care, I wish you all luck!

FM

sometimes you have to be tough, sometimes not.

Reading all you have posted here I'm tending towards weaver & Peps ideas.

I do see her point, though I would have some reservation after her lie to come back home...but look she did want to come home. Maybe the NC letter does not need to be a make or break issue,.Its not for us, me.

What about Peps idea, she writes to YOU promising NC ever again???

I do think though you need to say to her that you feel very uneasy and you cannot 'just get on with life' and remind her that she demanded 3 years of hard work on your part for her to accept you back. Ask her what makes her think you are any different?

You obviously resent this like hell FM, dont blame you, & I think you need to let her know in a honest open non attacking way EXACTLY how & why you feel this way.

I think there is hope here FM I really do. If you are honest with her how you feel, then with some encouragement and feeling 'safe' she may come with that genuine simple "I'm sorry"

Dont know about you, but one day when I understand it all or as much as I ever can, I'll get mine too.

Now get to it soldier!

FM:

She is still picking on you, I see. They sure don't make life easy, do they?

After my FWW's affair, it took several months for my wife to express even a little bit of remorse. My wife's NC letter came in the form of her quitting her job since it was a workplace affair. That was her form of NC letter. It is amazing at what length they go defending thier position. Maybe the important thing is you have her back in your house. This gives you a chance to rebuild. You know it will never be the same but at least you have a chance to start over. I said it before, taking my wife back was like the dog chasing the car. Once you catch them, what do you do with them.

As you know, I got my wife back from mental clutches of the OM, but not without a huge price. They definately don't reconnect to us easily. Even after she ended the affair, my FWW continued to cry out for her freedom and independence. Like you, I wanted her back at all costs, but I then came to realize she wasn't worth keeping.

I finally laid out a plan and sat her down and told her what I was thinking. I said since you want your independence and freedom so bad, I am going to quit fighting you and I am going to quit fighting for you. I told her to get a job and I didn't care if she went back to her old job where Mr Wonderful works. I told her this will allow her to make enough money to get an apartment. I said you have your car and we will get you furniture for the apartment and I would even help set it up for her. I then encouraged her to go back to her old BF and I will never bring it up to her again. I told her I will take all the personal and business debts in exchange for me taking full ownership of the business. I told her I would keep the house and the kids and she didn't have to pay any child support. She was actually shocked and asked me if I knew what i was saying. I said absolutely I know what i am saying but I am tired of listening to her tell me how unhappy she is.

I had one request for her. I asked her to go look in the mirror and see the aging 46 year old woman that she is. (She thinks she looks younger than she is) To look herself in the eyes and see the liar that she has become and to look at the untrustworthy and deceitful person that she has turned into. I told her the OM can have her because she drinks too much anyway and I didn't want to have to deal with her drinking issue too. I said, plus he gets you with one more title, the woman who walked away from her kids.

I said I don't want the ugly package that you are. I told her I remain the loyal, dedicated, and trusting father and husband and I will find someone who deems those assets important. I told her that her BF, who is 18 years younger than her, will dump her within 5 years anyway. I said that is how God works. He will not let you go without a payback for your actions.

The next day she told me it wasn't fair she had to leave the house. I said Freedom and Independence doesn't include the house, kids, and the dog. She began to change her attitude towards me for the better and I have never once heard the word independence and freedom come from her mouth again. I let go and gave her everything she ever wanted and when it came right down to the nitty-gritty, she didn't want it afterall.

That ordeal of releasing her became an important part of recovery for us. We are doing better than anytime in the past, post DD. We have a long way to go but things are actually getting better.

Hang tough and maybe showing your WW that her package is not so appealing after all will work for you too. You must wait until she is completely out of the fog for it to impact her.
Don't do it if you don't mean it, I reached the end of my rope with her and I was feeling like I had lost my love for her anyway. I am working on rebuilding that one day at a time. Good luck to you.

TooSoon

hey FM. i did pray for you like you asked. i think i like the idea of her writing a commitment letter to you as a compromise. when it comes down to it i think i would settle for that for now. at least she came home and wants to work on the marriage although she really shouldnt have said she would write the letter if she wasnt going to. things are a little bumpy but i hope they smooth out real soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by aussie2:
<strong>

You obviously resent this like hell FM, dont blame you, & I think you need to let her know in a honest open non attacking way EXACTLY how & why you feel this way.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly. Last nite was very non-confrontational but still painful for her. I don't really think she's strong enough to deal with everything at the moment. I always slip into protective mode with her, just a side effect of being together since we were what? Teenagers and the circumstances regarding her past life with her guardians. I will deal with these issues during our counseling sessions, if I stuff down my pain, disappointments so she doesn't have to deal with it or feel inadequate it only creates the same environment that caused MY AFFAIR...she doesn't realize this, but I do. Like you said Aussie, there's a time to be tough and a time not to be..this is a time not to be. Her coming home on her own was a big step for her, and she wants that to mean something in and of itself and it does. Just not enough, I do have that silly pride that says, yeah well this is where you should've been to begin with...like that helps.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but that is how I feel...sorry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TooSoonToBeComfortable:
<strong>
The next day she told me it wasn't fair she had to leave the house. I said Freedom and Independence doesn't include the house, kids, and the dog. She began to change her attitude towards me for the better and I have never once heard the word independence and freedom come from her mouth again. I let go and gave her everything she ever wanted and when it came right down to the nitty-gritty, she didn't want it afterall.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off I want to thank you for sharing your story...I AM NOT ALONE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ! My W left when I gave her the option to JUST LEAVE IF THAT"S WHAT YOU WANT>>>SERIOUSLY....THIS IS GETTING REAL OLD< REAL SLOW>>>!!, She was gone for about 2 weeks and then she came back with a new attitude. You are totally right, you have to MEAN it if you're going to say it or you will not be respected. My W is alot more receptive, happy at least outwardly. She even wants to have a baby!! I'm hesistant, though I do want more children, I want them to be born into a more stable household. I don't want my W using a child to make her commit, though she denies this of course. I tell you the rollercoaster never stops! All I can go on is my gut, and my gut says she's on board. I am paranoid, but who wouldn't be, I've brought into her words before and got the shaft. She seems to know what she wants. I've had an A as well, but I never planned to M the OW. The OW in my A was truly just a friendship that spiraled out of control and then went back to becoming a friendship, that I HAVE ENDED. My W on the other hand actually accepted a M proposal from this kid who never even had his own apartment! This sticks in my chest like a arrow, but hey I can't really express it to her because she can't deal with my issues at this point. Can you imagine that? A married woman being that much in the fog that she accepts a marriage proposal while she's still M'd???

Anyway back to the present. Thanks for letting me vent my frusrations. ITS NOT FAIR!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Okay I'm better now just needed to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening and sharing TS2BC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shelly_3:
<strong> hey FM. i did pray for you like you asked. i think i like the idea of her writing a commitment letter to you as a compromise. when it comes down to it i think i would settle for that for now. at least she came home and wants to work on the marriage although she really shouldnt have said she would write the letter if she wasnt going to. things are a little bumpy but i hope they smooth out real soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for posting Shelly...I am settling for her being here and being accountable for her time and so forth. I guess this is why they say Recovery is the hardest part. Just think WHEN you get your H back, will you trust him? Will the crappy images of H and OP play in your head over and over? Will you wonder? Why'd I even take this cheating guy back? He'll be in withdrawal and moping around slipping in and out of the fog of OP and you cant complain because if you do he'll just run right back to OW!! Recovery is hard and that's why they say don't stay in Plan A too long, because if you do, you might run out of gas during recovery. I still wishy you the best Shelly..I think your a great person, strong too! I love my W and for now, I'll be patient and let go of my hopes for the No Contact Letter. I guess it does make a difference that OM ended their R, it would be demeaning to send someone a letter telling them not to contact you, after they told you there were through with YOU?!?!? I do see her point, but in my mind who cares how he feels or if he thinks your silly for sending it, I'M YOUR H, IT'S WHAT I THINK OF YOU THAT COUNTS, NOT OM!

There is still fog and I'm not getting the respect I think I deserve. All things in due time right?

Thanks again for your prayers and words <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FM

FM:

My sweet little woman was leaving me for a guy 24 years younger than me. He wanted her to move in with him and she was considering it. I have kids older and younger than him. My wife was very much wanting to give it all up for this "kid". It would have been funny, because within 5 years he would have dumped my wife, who would be over 50 then, for a 28 year old girl who would have his kids. I would have gotten the last laugh but she decided to stay. After DD, it made sense to me why she was working out 5 to 6 days a week. She was having a hell of a time trying to look younger for her new son, i mean BF.

As the old saying goes, We can't live with them and we can't live without them.......or can we?!

TooSoon

PS: Who says there isn't hell on earth!

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: TooSoonToBeComfortable ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TooSoonToBeComfortable:
<strong> FM:

My sweet little woman was leaving me for a guy 26 years younger than me. He wanted her to move in with him and she was considering it. I have kids older and younger than him. My wife was very much wanting to give it all up for this "kid". It would have been funny, because within 5 years he would have dumped my wife, who would be over 50 then, for a 28 year old girl who would have his kids. I would have gotten the last laugh but she decided to stay.

As the old saying goes, We can't live with them and we can't live without them.......or can we?!

TooSoon

PS: Who says there isn't hell on earth! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> YOU'VE GOTTA LAUGH TO KEEP FROM CRYING RIGHT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It makes no sense, totally utterly ridiculous!!!
How do grown, smart people buy into unrealistic , fantasy dream worlds that have absolutely NO real potential of even working? I do see a trend here! Not to mention, Our W's were the ones risking everything. My W has a girlfriend who gave it all up for some younger guy. The girlfriend was so tired of here old, reliable H..she said he wasn't exciting, he wasnt' a go getter..she wanted someone chasing their dreams, out there puttin it on the line! Well she left her H and ran off with younger OM, just for him to decide...
"hey I cant chase my dreams with some older lady on my back..."
And just like that OM changed his mind!!

The girlfriend was so distraught she started harrassing the young guy...stalking him, slashing tires, showing up at his job! The young guy had to file a restraining order! Now the girlfriend is back home with her H and do you think she's trying to make it up to him? PROBABLY NOT, I bet a thousand dollars she's acting as if he should be happy he has her back!!! OH LORD! THE FOG IS SO THICK!!!! My W saw her friend doing all of these dumb things and I wonder what advice she gave her? Who knows? Sometimes I think maybe I'm in a fog too. A fog of thinking I should put up with all this nonesense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but I still love her and the prosepct of keeping my family whole, at least this week anyway. Things change quickly when your ridding the "Never-Ending Relationship Rollercoaster" WEEEEEEEEEEEE! I pine for the day it really hits her that she almost chucked her M away for some momentary fun! I know how it feels to come to that conclusion, but unlike her, my SPOUSE DIDN"T TAKE THE TIME TO SEEK OUT HELP SHE JUST FOUND A REPLACEMENT. I'm still bitter, can you tell? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I don't blame her totally for her poor decisions, the whole world is full of people who give terrible advice on R's. MB is full of people of principles, morals and respect for M. In the rest of the world, most people live by the creed: "Do whatever makes you happy at the moment, regardless to how much you screw up your life or how many people suffer because of it" I know this motto ohhh too well. Believe me TS2BC when your in the fog, you can't see a danged thing.

Trust me, it took me a long time to see clearly.

<small>[ September 12, 2004, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: FamilyMatters ]</small>

FM:

My FWW worked at a state funded social service Agency. One of the MC there was divorced five times, etc. Poor work environment with court ordered distressed cases coming in everyday. She didn't work with the clients but with the MC's, case workers, and testers, etc. A person cannot work in an environment servicing the misfits of the world without it rubbing off on everyone involved.

The place was a haven for every lazy person who was forced to work but didn't want to, full of gay men and women (I am not gay bashing), full of divorced men and woman, and full of workers who never married who had a bunch of kids and now their unmarried kids are having kids. The environment was not truly a normal environment with people with real normal family lives and values. We were a typical suburban family.

I think the daily environment and attitude made it more acceptable to fall prey to an affair. She needed to leave that place to be put in a more normal environment.

Yes, like your wife's friend, it rubs off on you and certain people are not strong enough to fight it off or stay above it.

We are making great progress but it sure has been a tough uphill battle. I feel great today but tomorrow she could spring something on me. It could be a simple attitude shift by her that sets me off guard. You and I are "shell shocked". We hear the wrong words from our spouses and we hit the floor and cover our heads.

Tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor!

TooSoon

FM...promised you I would write back, friend.

Make sure you save this post--I've reread this thread twice now--I have nothing to add! I think Pep's idea was brilliant as usual--all of the kind and first-hand advice is so good. That's what any R is about. No, it's not what you wanted/demanded, but it's a great compromise. Pick and chose your battles--even with this idea, you have fulfilled your need. You can always compromise--so as long as you don't compromise the goal. And we all know what FamilyMatter's ultimate goal is. You'll get there. Trust. Patience. Understanding. Patience. Hard work. More pain--but the kind of pain that's worth it in the end--no pain, no gain. Not the one-sided, alien-inflicted pain, you know, the one's you hear about with probing and $hit after an abduction?

You seem to be at a place now where you have some inner-calm, some inner sanity and control. Don't lose that--you'll need it--from all of the situations I've read here, boy will you need it.

And prayers and support. That's one thing we can do for ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />