It won't be easy, TUS. Please take some time tomorrow when you have gotten some rest to go over that last LONG post I wrote for you. Please. I'd like you to think about what I asked and see what you can come up with. Look at it this way, it will steel you to do what you know you have to do. Consider it your "homework" for tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> KB

tolduso - I'm going to respond to many of the things you have written in this thread, but that will come a little later.

For now I'd like you to think about your husband and your marriage. Tell us, tell me, about your husband, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

What was it that made you think that the "grass was greener" with and adulterous affair?

tolduso, you asked for help. This is a starting point. You have been focusing on yourself and the OM and what I want from you is WHY you felt, justly or unjustly, that your marriage was not "good" or "not enough."

Then I want to know about your husband's faith. What is his belief in Jesus Christ? What church or denomination do (did) he and/or you attend?

God bless.

TUS,

If you are feeling broken and overwhelmed, well that seems only natural. I tell ya, I know what you mean.

Since you are planning on refering back to your Bible, take the time to check out Psalm 38.

Bah... here, I'll make it easy for you: Psalm 38

When we don't do what is 'right' we are rebuked. Our iniquities become burdens that are too heavy to bear.

But there is a way to clear this up...

J

Ok, this story is going to make some of you sick, but I need more helpful points made on here.

Since I've been posting this time, OM had moved back into his home, but continued a relationship w/ me. His W & I started talking again & we ended up cornering OM at their home. We talked for hours w/ him all the things she said that he'd said about me & admitting all the things I said he said/did against W. Make sense? For hours, they fought & we talked. OM treated W like trash this time & "kissed up" to me the whole time. I guess I was flattered, esp. since I still think I love him, & offered for him to come back to the apt. He left to return some movies & I took the opp. to talk to him. He told me he loved me & asked me if I believed him now that he'd denied all of "W's lies" in front of us both. I said that he could just be denying them (I know he's able to simply deny things or say he doesn't remember that), but that I would be able to trust him more & I was willing to stay here if he stayed in the apt. We talked about what would happen for a while. He kept telling me how much he loved me & preferred to be w/ me, but how he's afraid of losing his children. I told him I didn't want to be the one that tears him away from his children, so "I know what your decision is." He said he'd always love me, etc.

I tried to be strong when I was w/ him. I told him not to be weak anymore (contact me, etc.) & he said that is like telling a fish not to get wet. I left w/o crying & tried to look at my "bright future." I kept hoping that he'd call me/come over. This morning I woke up after a dream that it being over was just a dream & couldn't go back to sleep. I know that this time he's not going to contact me. My heart is broken, but in a sense I feel relieved. I have so much to say!

Part of me was watching how he was treating his W last night & thinking, "Ok, TUS, know that if you & he stay together, he is going to be treating you like this someday." But at the same time, I am still so addicted to him that I was willing for him to stay w/ me, just so I wouldn't have to say good-bye. He's suggested several times that I live in this area & we could continue our relationship, but he could still have his kids. He knew I wouldn't do it, but he said that's what he really wants.

So, current situation:

1. Still in love w/ OM, but know it NEEDS to be over. But all I want to do is talk to him!

2. Having an extremely difficult time, but willing to go through w/drawals b/c it's the only thing that really makes sense.

3. Thankful to OM for letting me have his apt, car, phone, $, etc. until I leave, but still angry at what "he's done to me." When I say that, I mean convincing me to place my life in his hands & then dumping me so quickly.

4. Keep thinking through things that were said last night & feeling hurt b/c I think that he denied a lot of the gross/mean things he told his W about me simply so he didn't hurt me "on my way out." Things about my body or how I have sex, etc. that she for sure wouldn't know unless he told her. He claimed that the details he gave her were w/ motives that were faithful to me. It hurts me b/c I've often denied him the ability to tell me neg. things about his W & I wouldn't tell him neg. things about my H. (sexually) Anyway, I know that was gross, but I feel like I need to tell someone.

5. Trying to replace missing him w/ "happy thoughts", but miserable anyway. My pride has just about been killed through this situation.

I'll write more, but I need to take a break.

toldyouso...

this is ALL about you

ALL about your actions...

you need to figure out how you as a child of God can stand and watch another human being your OM tear down his wife and destroy her in the name of love and in your name at her expense...

you need to stop this nonsense and chaos cause no one else is....

Part of me was watching how he was treating his W last night & thinking, "Ok, TUS, know that if you & he stay together, he is going to be treating you like this someday

where is your compassion for today..
for today where he treats his wife like this..or is there only meaning in his cruelity and lies when they are targeted at you...

you are so deep in this muck and mire that you have lost sight of all rational behavior....

Still in love w/ OM, but know it NEEDS to be over. But all I want to do is talk to him!

you need to grasp your thought processes around the fact that you and he have absolutely NO idea what love is..

love is none of the things that you and he create..
chaos for children
chaos for spouses...
warping of Gods covenants....

you do all of this...this is of your orchestration...
you are going to lose all contact with what is decent and right in this world if you continue on this path..
the destruction is enormous...
to your self...

but still angry at what "he's done to me." When I say that, I mean convincing me to place my life in his hands & then dumping me so quickly.

you did all of this
you chose all of this.
no one can force or control you to do anything...

Things about my body or how I have sex, etc. that she for sure wouldn't know unless he told her. He claimed that the details he gave her were w/ motives that were faithful to me.

yes that's common healthy relationship talk amongst friends....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

you toy and toy with us here...

and again and again and again the real tragedy is the children..
over and over adults in the name of love...wanting to avoid withdrawal IE their self inflicted pain...
toy with the lives of children who have no power\
no ability to make decisions...

day after day
you play your cat and mouse games...
and the children who more than anything else in this universe need stability to grow in to healthy adult are victims and pawns to your abuse and neglect...self inflicted and directed at eachother and your spouses..

you are married
he is married...
you have no right to hurt his children...
yet you do over and over....

you take money and resources to live in a mans apartment oh yeah your 'lovenest....in your own words... his apt, car, phone, $, etc. until I leave all resources that you take from his children day after day...

you should keep a tab and return that money to them
you should leave today..
your games are sick
and will go on as long as you remain a player in them.....

ARK

Ok, here's more:

KB- I rethought all those things & could apply most of those things to OM, but still more can be applied to me. I emailed my thoughts to
Dr. Carver & he said that dysfunctional relationships will normally turn nonLosers into Losers. I was definitely not any of those things b/f this relationship & am now almost all of these things. OM is claiming that he is not these things (sorry, I did end up referring him to that site), but I know that he was some of those things b/f our relationship & def. a lot of those things during our A. Dr. Carver also suggested me reading the articles "Stockholm Syndrome" & "Depression". I am going to do this & anything else I can to get through this. It is so hard!

Foreverhers-
Good, bad, & ugly about H:

Good- Honest, loving, caring, thoughtful (cards & flowers, dinners), hard worker, friendly, trusting, in general- " a good man"- no dirty jokes, unhealthy movies, etc.

Bad- Naive, not thoughtful in "everyday life" (doesn't care if I'm cold, he'll take the blanket, etc.), doesn't listen to me (likes to talk, but not to hear my opinion), when others are around, he forgets I exist/says dumb/embarrassing things about me in public, complains about others all the time, likes to push, but not a good leader; etc.

Ugly- He's not ugly. : ) There are physical features I wish he could change, but I'm sure he feels the same about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Now about Marriage:

Good- Very innocent relationship: He'd never touched anyone else & I'd never had sex w/ him or anyone b/f our marriage, had exciting future: looking forward to children & "a happy home", had lots of friends together, etc.

Bad- I had no satisfaction sexually. Sometimes I just hated having sex. Started losing respect for him.

Ugly- Nothing other than the affair.

What made me think the grass was greener?
-The OM is older & seemingly more mature; not necessarily more physically attractive, but I liked different features better; while H is naive, OM is constantly learning things all the time; OM tended to be professional in the way he handled things, while H tended to be careless; etc.

About our "religion"- We are independent Baptists. He grew up in a Baptist home that used to be Amish. We met at Bible college. Used to do devotions together, but began to slack in last year of marriage.

I think "the grass is greener" thing has changed for both OM & I. We both we thought we could get many things from the other, but now we know that if we'd just work on the marriages we already have, we'll be happier w/ our spouses.

Will write more when I can clear my head.

Ark,

I did actually feel really bad for her & many times stopped him. He left me for his children, isn't that good? I feel bad for his kids, definitely. That is the biggest reason we're "breaking up." He decided to stay at his house last night b/c he is sick of not waking up & seeing them, sick of not being there if they need him. He is planning on building a better relationship w/ his W then he has ever had so that his kids will have a healthy home. I know I've been very selfish w/ him & his kids. I kept telling myself that it was his decision to do that. Now he's decided not to do that. He used to talk about us having children & a family & how wonderful it would be & how we could work it out for both sets of kids to know he loves them. You are right, it was my choice to do this w/ him. He may be very convincing, but I should've have steered clear of him. I am sorry that he hurt his W at my expense. I have often felt sorry for her & he would get mad at me for it. I know I'm not supposed to feel like a victim, but I don't think I can make that feeling go away. I trusted him to make decisions for us. Now the decision is made for good & it hurts. I'm sorry.

As far as the money goes, that's a possibility, but my H would not like to give anything to OM. Maybe while I'm living w/ my parents, though, I'll do that.

Oh Itoldyouso...
I get it...
the plan is for you to worship at the perpetual state of vicitim ship...
that somehow that OK's your actions TODAY regardless of what they were yesterday...

each second of your life you face the choice to do the right thing....
but your victimization inhibits you
controls you...so you claim...

you are controled by your husband
you are controled by your parents
you are controled by your OM
you are controled by your feelings

feeling bad for his wife
feeling bad for his children

all wasted energy when you CHOOSE to do nothing about those feelings to make it right...
if you really care
if you really had compassion for his children
you would walk away from their lives and let them live in peace...


I know I'm not supposed to feel like a victim, but I don't think I can make that feeling go away.

are you kidding you love to play the victim role... you gain so much from it...

as long as you continue to cloak yourself in victimhood
as long as you identify yourself as a powerless victim
as long as you embrace that title..
those feelings won't go away..
but they also are of your creation and control...

and the payoff is big
wallow in your pity
justify living off the money of children
justify staying one more day in HIS town...
continue contact..
we all here know what's coming next..
your need for closure..
your need for you and him to set straight what never was right in the first place.
on and on and on your games will go..

I know here's a new one for you.
become victim to needing closure...

looked for a job yet today?
looked up the number of flights leaving that town today back to your home town?
takes up a lot of time being nothing but a victim...drains the soul and the burden is heavy...
you can stop anytime you choose to...

all of it...continues on as long as you remain victim to it....

ARK

To sum up what ark has so wisely written

Accept your personal responsibility


I am COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY AND SOLELY responsible for my life and what has happened and what will happen

<small>[ September 14, 2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Cymanca ]</small>

That comment OM made - that telling him to leave you alone and be strong is "like telling a fish not to get wet". That comment tells you much of what you need to know about him.

Those words may sound poetic and romantic to somebody who doesn't know better. To me, they're the trick of a unsavory manipulator. My stomach turned when I read them.

Blech. This OM is one nasty individual. I remember when he threatened suicide on this board and then vanished. He uses threats and promises and lies to get what he wants, and he is very skilled at it. Unlike many manipulative people, he appears to fully understand what he's doing.

Yuck. I wouldn't go within earshot of this guy. You - you think you love him. Except you still don't know what love means.

Love is not being consumed.

Love is not infatuation and drama.

Love does not force you to sacrifice yourself.

Something wicked masquerading as love does.

Get off your butt and get yourself away from OM, you freakin' serotonin junkie.

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> Get off your butt and get yourself away from OM, you freakin' serotonin junkie.GC </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, now GC play nice! I realize it IS very frustrating to watch but may I remind everyone that this is a 24 year old girl in the FOG with a master manipulator who is 15 years . her senior. This is NO excuse for her behavior but it is an extenuating (sp?) circumstance. For all we know she has been Daddy's "little girl" her whole life and is now doublely vulnerable to manipulation.

Yes, TUS needs to take responsiblity for her actions but for God's sake, we are working with some MUCH older women (with a lot more resourses at their disposal) on this site who can't manage to do that yet! Patience, not impatience please. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TUS, I'm glad you took the initiative to email Dr. Carver. The Stockholm article is weighty but explains so much. Is Dr. Carver willing to work with you at all? It would be more than good for you to get into a therapy situation.

You need to take ownership of your OWN life, your OWN actions TUS. The way to do this at this point, begins with getting out of town. Have you talked further with your parents? KB

KB - sorry, I should have put a smile next to what I wrote. I meant it with a trace of humor. Not that it isn't true!

GC