Pep -

Where I work (hospital), employees are encouraged to report near misses, and errors. They know they will NOT be fired.

LINY probably would be fired if he comes out and said he had an affair - which he did.

It is the old story that you are hiding a child from a mad man. When he knocks on your door and asks if you have the child, do you tell the truth?

On issues that could harm someone I would always speak the truth, and have in the past. But would I tell the absolute truth about everything? I don't think so.

Originally posted by believer:

LINY probably would be fired if he comes out and said he had an affair - which he did.

He can answer direct questions truthfully.

He's not going to be fired.... unless the company is trying to nose out "sexual harrassment charges" .... in which case, if the Madam X has not made such charges... LINY is usually protected.

It is the old story that you are hiding a child from a mad man. When he knocks on your door and asks if you have the child, do you tell the truth?

This is an old example used in ethics class ... of course you lie to protect a child from immediate bodily harm.

If the same child asks you to lie and say she did not steal candy from the store, when you know for a fact that she did, do you protect her from that as well?

This is the MAIN reason (excuse) WS's use to lie to their spouses! "I did not want to hurt you by telling you the truth."

When the real reason for the lie is to self-protect one's reputaion and avoid the consequences.

On issues that could harm someone I would always speak the truth, and have in the past. But would I tell the absolute truth about everything? I don't think so.

Well Believer, we are probably a lot closer to agreeing on this than we realize...

I guess it all comes down to definitions of "harm" ..... and degrees of "harm".

If you asked an employee of yours a direct question, and he flat out lied in his response... would you trust him?

If you asked an employee a direct question and he replied "What is the relevence of this question to my job performance?".... I think we would both be OK with that.

I think it is very risky to advise a recently recovering WS to color the truth in any area of his life.....When he is trying to recover his self-respect, his integrity and his honor.... these are the foundations to a really strong recovery. And I honor those parts of LINY enough to say .... be careful with your words..... use your words to honor your integrity in all situations

Pep

Pep -I agree with you, and hope that LINY and Brown will get through this okay.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Pep -I agree with you, and hope that LINY and Brown will get through this okay. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer... and I agree with you as well...

and I hope YOU will get through your "this" OKay as well... (you know what I mean)

Pep

You gals and guys are really great. Have been and continue to be. Thank you soooo much for the support you gave shown us. It's not only support, but you have given us both some more clarity and direction. Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OK...here's what happened. I was "accused" of two things actually. No chance to "defend" myself; little chance to "explain"; and no chance to ask some questions myself. Unbelieveable.

OK. I'll try to explain as best I can (without revealing too much of my employer).

These allegations/accusations/complaints was made anonymously through a national investigative "team". It was then reported to a national employee council, so to speak. (The process probably started, I wouldn't be surprised, three months ago, if not longer.) Because of the original complaint and who it was reported to, they have to follow up with an investigation. It probably has something to do with the fact that I am in a managerial position--not definite.

Anyway, I get to my boss' boss' office (only the two of them.) She starts saying that this is such a serious matter, that "the" boss had to be notified, on my record, etc.

First "allegation": says that you are having an affair. Doesn't say with whom, just an affair. Also states that I "disappear" from my desk hours at a time and leave the building. Boss' boss explains (while I am turning red and literally biting my finger from restraining to respond to anything--yet) that this is a serious accusation and she really doesn't care about what I do--as long as it's not on company time. Get lectured about, being new in management, have to isolate myself from really everyone; perception, regardless of truth; yadah yadah yadah. Before I am about to say something she also tells me that before I do say anything, these are allegations. I explain something to the effect of that I did not know having a working relationship and friendship went beyond the boundaries of what was acceptable in my position. And yes, I certainly do understand the idea of perception. (I thought that was the best response I could say.) She continues more with warning me, saying that if my boss didn't like the job I was doing, she could realistically take me out of management right then and there. Here's the kicker--we can all debate about that it was "just an EA" and not a PA, the seriousness of it, the "punishment", etc--then she says the second allegation: it alledges you borrowed money from [someone]. I said, yeah as in matter of fact I did. On a few ocassions, when the ATM wasn't working, when I didn't bring any cash, etc. I couldn't f#$%ing believe my ears! (My rant will come later!) She wraps it up by saying if you should ever need to borrow any mney, borrow it from your boss. Restates the severity of it all. And then says that I could really ruin my career with these types of allegations and if another one should come up, that I can pretty much kiss my career goodbye!

OK...let's think about that...because of an allegation (regardless of truth or not), I could lose my career. Unbelieveable $hit! I finally couldn't hold back any longer--what's the sense in saying anything anyway--couldn't respond, defend--absolutely NOTHING! So I finally let go with, who's to say someone won't allege something else tommorrow? the three of us sitting here, all of us (what is considered non-bargaining union emplyees) here, have no recourse. She started to say something about the emplyees...blah blah blah. Right, I have no recourse. We ended by her saying I owe my boss for standing up for me and supporting me. I said yes, thank you. That would be a dinner under $25 then, right? (Gifts can be given but only under a value of $25.) They chuckled. That was that.


I am still reeling. In a warped way, like I told brown, it certainly was a slap in the face: the EA, and the borrowing on those few ocassins probably stemmed from me gambling previous to me coming to work and not having any cash. (I would repay it back within days, always giving a specific day, and always paying it back.)

The flip-side--this is my wonderful place of business where I have to visit everyday. (Did I not tell all f you? What a unique environment we were in?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

W T F ????????

Can you imagine pep, believer, fm, et al for getting reprimanded--almost losing your job for borrowing a few bucks?!?!?! Let me say it a different way. Can you imagine almost losing your career over "allegations"????? That's all they were (regardless if I and brown and you all know what the real truth is.) I almost lost my career over allegations. And this is the wonderful place we work at. Meanwhile, mind you, a "couple" was videotaped in the parking lot having sex (yes, intercourse) on the hood of a car. But because they are considered "bargaining"/non-managerial employees, they are still working there, no qualms, and "protected". Let me say it again:

WHAT THE F#$%?!?!?!?!?!?


I got a kick out of the two quotes below, after I signed off in the afternoon:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
LINY is usually protected.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
He can answer direct questions truthfully.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, your responses? Boy, am I curious.
(My luck? Someone will recognize the terms and situations and report me again. THIS is why I have to be so cyptic when talking about our employer!)

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

LINY -

I know you are upset - but that is the working world. Where I work, we have the whole "perception" thing too. We cannot do anything that could be "perceived" as being wrong, or "perceived" as favoring a person, or "perceived" as taking a gift, blah, blah, blah.

But I'm glad that you still are working there.

belever...thanks. I'm p' o'd at how there is just absolutely NOTHING I could do, *if* I should be accused of something again.

I really should be grateful--and I am. But I deal with this kind of crap on a daily basis. Not like the "real world" with a "real job." It's hard to explain--een harder to understand or believe some of the stories if I told them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks again!

Well pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and put your nose to the grindstone.

It sounds to me that you are doing a good job as a manager, except for getting too emotionally involved that one time. So live and learn. I'm glad things turned out okay.

Just figure the work place is what it is, and probably won't change. Take precautions to protect yourself.

Can you imagine pep, believer, fm, et al for getting reprimanded--almost losing your job for borrowing a few bucks?!?!?!

My guess is ... you work for the US Postal Service ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Meanwhile, mind you, a "couple" was videotaped in the parking lot having sex (yes, intercourse) on the hood of a car. But because they are considered "bargaining"/non-managerial employees, they are still working there, no qualms, and "protected". Let me say it again:

WHAT THE F#$%?!?!?!?!?!?

~LOL~ It is a crazy world~~~~~~~

The up side.... evidently they really like your work LINY .... they don't want to lose you ....

Pep

Honestly? The only precaution I will be putting into effect is "Leave me the f@#$ alone--everyone--I have a job to do." And the fact that I will now be by the book (not that I wasn't before, but I am more lenient than my employees think)--no more "Mr. Nice Guy In Training." I already told brown, that if I should not be able to separate work from home, that she has all permission to sock me one and "Snap me out of it!"

Thanks again, believer!

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Hey pep! Thanks to you too for responding to my thread.

It's just so unbelieveable. The stories I could tell you--just in my unit alone!

BTW, close...

Oh, I forgot to mention, that during the meeting, I did tell them both about another "rumor" that was started about me about three years ago: the one where I was having an affair and got the OW pregnant? The OW was brown! HA! What a place I work in! I made it a point of telling them as to understand if they have forgotten how absurd it is "out there" and what we are "up against."