JFN:

Okay, I had already read your story yesterday. Now I've read the letter you sent to OMW. Great letter, if a bit long.

But something needs to be cleared up. SH once defined an affair as "what your spouse thinks it is". You think your W is having an EA? Then it's up to her to convince you that she's not. She can't do that and have her so-called "privacy".

Here is a quote about secrecy and privacy, truth and honesty, that I've found useful:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.


The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

-Qfwfq (aka 2long)

JF, 2Long is absolutely correct, there is a huge difference between secrecy and privacy. Your W does not have the right to the privacy to carry on a relationship behind your back. She simply doens't. You, on the other hand, have a "right" to protect yourself from her activities, up to and including snooping. Snooping is a virtuous activity if it is warranted, not something you should be ashamed of. The truth of her affair justifies your snooping.

And I would strongly encourage you to continue snooping to make sure this affair is truly ended. It will give you enormous reassurance in rebuilding trust because you will be able to independently verify her truthfulness.

Remember, this is about YOUR life and you have a RIGHT to know what is happening in your life, JF. NO ONE has the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back.

Thanks for the clarification of definitions. Very helpful.

We'll see how the MC session goes tonight. I'm already starting to feel anxious.

Just_Friends_NOT

JF, if she tries to railroad you with inappropriate guilt over your snooping, just tell her this:

no one has the right to the privacy to destroy me behind my back.

And please break your promise to leave when one feels "threatened." That is pure nonsense unless she is threatening you with a baseball bat. One can't very well resolve problems if they run away from them.

Nor should you be forced to leave your home over the ramifications of HER affair. You have been punished enough, my friend, and if you don't stand up for yourself here, no one else will.

Thanks again. I will use this information tonight in the MC session.

I am the most mentally and physically fit I have ever been. WW may feel I've gone "twilight zone" again.

During my one on one sessions with MC. The MC called the relationship with OM an affair and said to me it was time for WW to come in for sessions. My WW was supposed to schedule her appointment for next week (she has known for over 3 weeks), I don't think she ever did it (she never told me). I was letting her handle it herself, because I have been known to be controlling.

My wife is not a bad person. She is just not living by the values that I thought she used to abide by. I would say, "What if the tables were turned?"

Just_Friends_NOT

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Just_Friends_NOT ]</small>

Well, I'm back. MC session was highly charged, but the MC was able to stablize the situation. We spent about 1.5 hours with MC. During the session the MC ask my WW to read "Not Just Friends". MC told her it was a good book and to pay attention to the Walls and Windows section and how the BS reacts to discovery. MC said I am in a hypervigalent (sp) state. Which I agree. WW says I have been "off doing my own thing" and always look "glassy eyed". Also I have not been my humorous self the past two months. I have to disagree with WW. MC thinks I should get my meds re-evaluated. I have an apointment on Thurs. I expressed I feel awsome. The good thing is WW and I are acting civil towards each other. We have another MC session on Thursday. We actually laughed uncontrollably at a joke I made.

Just_Friends_NOT

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Just_Friends_NOT ]</small>

So glad everything is getting better. Hang in there. Not Just Friends is a great book. I hope your wife will read it.

Have you heard from the OM's wife?

No, I have not heard from the OM Wife. Since this relationship was long distance, I think this OM might have not seen the relationship the same as my WW. I guess this is possible. He never really had a chance to see how she was acting. If you have seen the quizes in the No Just Friends book, they fit this situation to a T. He might have seen it only as a friendship. I'm just thinking out loud.

I am not going to contact OMW again.

Earlier everyone wanted to see the response I received from the OM. Here it is:

-------------------------------------------------
Hi BS -

We have not had a chance to visit - perhaps that in itself has contributed to our current situation. My wife called me this morning to mention that she received an email from you that concerned her. She forwarded it to me at home and I have had a chance to read it - it concerns me as well. I think maybe it is time to talk about a few things.

Please understand, I did not find your letter to be offensive, or really even inaccurate in the details. The conclusions are another matter, and maybe spending a few moments talking about things will put your mind at ease.

Please give me a call on the number you mentioned in your email, XXX-XXX-XXXX. I will be available until 2:30pm EST.
-------------------------------------------------

This is what is making me wonder about how he viewed his involvement. WW was affected by the relationship differently than OM.

I also met with our Pastor after church today. Spent over an hour with him explaining our situation. He is awsome. Todays sermon had to do with making a decision. He used an example about a spouse making a decision to stay in a physical or emotional abusive relationship. I have emotional abusive tendencies in our marriage. I admit it freely. The message really hit home.

One day at a time.

Just_Friends_NOT

Woke up this morning with wife "spooning" me. I think this is a big step. Maybe she has read some of the "Not Just Friends" over the weekend. She even initiated a hug followed by a kiss before we left for work. I am letting her set the pace.

After Friday's MC session, I didn't think it would start to normalize this quickly. I am shocked.

Just_Friends_NOT

NJF, I'm glad to see that things have settled a bit for you. The direction of this thread troubles me for a few different reasons. You freely admit to (emotional) abusive tendencies and you and your wife have already set a plan in place in the event that either one of you feels "threatened". This indicates that things have previously escalated in your home to the point where such a plan was neccessary. Sorry but I have to ask, have the police been called to your home in the past?

Your wife's communications with the "OM" have been non-romantic yet intimate according to you. Based soley on your description, it seems your wife is using her friendship and the man's professional status to get some free MC. Your marital problems certainly constitute intimate conversation but their conversations are in actuality NOT intimate in the WW/OM sort of intimate.

Your email to the wife didn't clearly explain this, nor did your vague reference of them exchanging pictures. Most people (on this board anyway) conclude that photos exchanged are of a generally sexual nature. I am concerned that you left this to the wife's imagination.

Your wife is lonely as she explained and possibly feels that she cannot discuss her feelings with you without risking a scene. Does your wife feel that you are a safe person to talk to? Your explanation that she has been distant during this time which could be easily explained by the ongoing marital discord.

It would be better of course if your wife agrees to confine herself to the MC of your choice but to label the interchanges between her and the psychiatrist friend as an EA seems entirely presumptous. You have given the heads up to the wife, good move but so far the reaction from their end of it certainly doesn't indicate that any of what you are surmissing (she is having an affair) is correct.

We all know that any "private" conversations between male and females can lead to an affair but her relationship as it stands appears to be entirely innocent. The psychiatrist does not appear to have violated any professional or personal boundaries with your wife.

I don't understand why you are not willing to talk with him. If he has made himself available to talk with you, and if you feel you are in the right, what's the problem with communicating? Your hestitation is somewhat striking. Are you leaving something important out in your posts?

If your wife in reality, feels that she is in a risky situation with you in the home, it is completely understandable that she would talk to an old friend who conveniently happens to be a psychiatrist. I'm sure he has a great deal of insight into your situation but as she is not his patient it would be time to reevaluate the content and quantity of their conversations. I believe there was insufficient cause to jump to conclusions about affairs and unprofessional behavior ect. Every male/female friendship is NOT an affair.

This is where the Harley concept of POJA comes in. The two of you must negotiate a better plan as far as her attempts to deal with the marriage. It sounds like her relaxed state this morning with you may be partially due to your good feelings about having been proactive. It is very difficult to be loving and comfortable around spouses who are "glassy eyed" and "hypervigilant". Please do get your meds reevaluated as the MC suggested.

Have you changed MC's yet? Are you in IC for your personal issues? It is difficult to gain ground in MC when the IC issues are not being attended to. I realize this post may not "feel" supportive to you NJF but I think that if you both are able to deal head on with the REAL issues, then this "EA" is not going to be one for you. I wish both you and your wife every success. KB

Sorry but I have to ask, have the police been called to your home in the past?

No the police have never been called.

Your wife's communications with the "OM" have been non-romantic yet intimate according to you. Based soley on your description, it seems your wife is using her friendship and the man's professional status to get some free MC.

Don't you think if it was MC, it should have been helping the marriage, not making her withdrawal? You could look at the EA characteristics and match them one for one.


Your email to the wife didn't clearly explain this, nor did your vague reference of them exchanging pictures. Most people (on this board anyway) conclude that photos exchanged are of a generally sexual nature. I am concerned that you left this to the wife's imagination.

I explained the message I sent was edited. I did mention in the email that there was not "romantic" exchanges.

Your wife is lonely as she explained and possibly feels that she cannot discuss her feelings with you without risking a scene. Does your wife feel that you are a safe person to talk to? Your explanation that she has been distant during this time which could be easily explained by the ongoing marital discord.

I can totally agree with you.

It would be better of course if your wife agrees to confine herself to the MC of your choice but to label the interchanges between her and the psychiatrist friend as an EA seems entirely presumptous. You have given the heads up to the wife, good move but so far the reaction from their end of it certainly doesn't indicate that any of what you are surmissing (she is having an affair) is correct.

This is why I was surmising (sp) that he did not feel the same way.

We all know that any "private" conversations between male and females can lead to an affair but her relationship as it stands appears to be entirely innocent. The psychiatrist does not appear to have violated any professional or personal boundaries with your wife.

I agree as well.

I don't understand why you are not willing to talk with him. If he has made himself available to talk with you, and if you feel you are in the right, what's the problem with communicating? Your hestitation is somewhat striking. Are you leaving something important out in your posts?

I have already drafted up a reply to his e-mail and will send it.

Have you changed MC's yet? Are you in IC for your personal issues? It is difficult to gain ground in MC when the IC issues are not being attended to.

We are keeping the MC. We are both comfortable. I was in IC for over 2 months. While I felt like I was improving dramatically, her perception was different.

Thank you for your honest response. I thank you.

JFN

JFN, thank YOU for the clarifications. It would be SO great for this to be truely a false alarm. There seemed to be a fair amount of conclusion jumping happening in your thread, so I needed to ask some specific (hard, sorry) questions. Thanks for being so gracious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There are a couple of interesting threads about communication over on the EN board, that you might want to take a look at. This one by JavaSansContour spawned another by Low Orbit. Both are very interesting, kinda weighty so give yourself time if you decide to take a look.

This really is a great opportunity for both you and your wife to turn things around in the marriage before something much more devastating happens. We definitely don't want that for you two!

It's also a great opportunity for you to put into practice some of the concepts you've learned about on this site. Radical Honesty and POJA come to mind regarding the email relationship. It sounds like you are going to be able to work this one out with some time and effort. Keep posting, we're not only about infidelity on this site. Best, KB

edited cuz I screwed up your initials(!) I did this to someone else last week, I must be losing it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ September 20, 2004, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: knewbetter ]</small>

Update : Well I get home last night and WW says she is meeting our MC at 7:30pm. I asked her if everything is alright and she said, "Yes". WW returns after session and is very nervous. I let her have her space. This morning she asked me to be honest with the DR this afternoon (going to get my meds re-evaluated). I said I have always been honest. She thinks I have been mis-diagnosed, because I have been hypervigilant for the past couple months. She has been reading the "Not Just Friends" book and I think she doesn't like what she is reading. She said, "I am not going to be blamed for doing this to you. I think there is something else wrong." I agreed to see any doctor and to any test to make her feel better. If it turns out to be something else, then I will accept it. But I really think everything is going to be OK.

As I have said before, I feel the best ever. I opened up the communication with my parents and it feels great. Like a huge weight has been lifted. There was a lot of baggage. My career is great, after I changed positions within the company. I feel physically better. I am taking vitamins and eating healthier. I am coaching my oldest son's soccer team. I am involved in Toastmasters (public speaking club). I am a boardmember of my local astronomy club. Back in April, before D-day, I was in a bad place. I found out about my WW's relationship and this set me over the edge.

We have a MC session tonight. We'll see what happens.

Just_Friends_NOT

^^^^ BUMP ^^^^

MC session went OK. W said she would not e-mail OM anymore.

Things are very calm around the house. The MC wants W to read specific chapters from the "Not Just Friends" book. We'll see what happens.

Just_Friends_NOT

Hey there,

I'm wondering if the OMW really did get the email you sent or if it was intercepted by the OM.

And I'm wondering if the Dr. OM and your WW have been sitting around diagnosing you behind your back.

Did you ask specifically what your W is talking about, or what she sees that she wants the Dr. to know about your meds?

What specifically is the concern the MC had about your meds? What is the hypervigilant thing about? Is there something specific that is troubling these people?

I'm wondering if there is another way to contact the OMW?

I'm wondering if the OMW really did get the email you sent or if it was intercepted by the OM.

I sent it to her work e-mail. I am sure she got it.

And I'm wondering if the Dr. OM and your WW have been sitting around diagnosing you behind your back.

I don't know.

Did you ask specifically what your W is talking about, or what she sees that she wants the Dr. to know about your meds?

I was extremely depressed before I found out about the OM. I was having symptoms of paranoia at work. Have a family history of certain psych. conditions too.

What specifically is the concern the MC had about your meds? What is the hypervigilant thing about? Is there something specific that is troubling these people?

Hypervigilance is a term used in the "Not Just Friends" book. It is an extreme obsessive behavior. All BS's experience this in some way or another. It can be very extreme based on the individual's history. I think mine was a form of PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder). I was not myself.

I'm wondering if there is another way to contact the OMW?

I feel I don't need to.

W and I had a great talk last night. We shared our points and even agreed to disagree on a couple things. It felt really good. Things really are improving.

Just_Friends_NOT