[/B] [B]am I being completely stupid for entertaining this notion?

My opinion, YES!

Your wife does not need to meet guys in coffee shops and have conversations, etc to meet her needs for intellectual conversation. This is the biggest bunch of hogwash I have heard yet.

I fulfill my need for meeting new people through my job and on this board. With no further need for private meetings in coffee shops. Your wife needs no other male friends besides you. That would be asking for trouble. Don't allow your wife to compromise who you are, what you believe in, your marriage and what you know is right.

If you lose her because of this than so be it, atleast you will have kept your integrity and self-respect.

No private meetings with guys unless he is a mutual friend and you are there.

JMO

Weaver

But, by me telling her she can never meet another guy or this guy for purely conversation aren't I making demands on her. And isn't that one on the rules is not to make demands. I agree with everything you said. Me giving her that goes against my gut feeling and nothing feels right about it...but my demand will ultimately throw her in his arms....yes no...???

Let's see

intellectual conversations
sexual encounters

intellectual conversations which lead to sexual encounters

hmmmm maybe she should only have intellectual conversations with old ladies (mental stimulation and no sexual interaction)

I am deeply into philosophy and have not yet had a sexual encounter in connection with it (other than meeting my husband of 17 years in a philosophy discussion group long ago).

Tell your wife that intellectual conversation and sex are not intrinsically logically connected.

She has more going on in her inner mind's voice than craving intellectual stimulation.

If you were just dating, then yes it would be making demands. However, you are married and when she agreed to enter into the convenant of marriage she agreed to forsake all others. This means meeting other guys for conversation.

I hear what you are saying about the demands, but expecting ones wife to respect the convenant of marriage is not a demand. Meeting another man at a coffee shop is not honoring you, nor your marriage.

Your gut is right, listen to it. Tell her you would be glad to get out more with her, such as traveling, etc where you meet other people together and have conversations with them together.

Your wife is blowing up smokescreens to evade the real issue. She either wants to be married or she wants to be single, it is a choice.

All you can do is accept what you can accept, the rest is up to her. Boundaries are very important as they define the rules of the marriage, and a marriage must have rules.

Does this make sense?

"Your wife is blowing up smokescreens to evade the real issue. She either wants to be married or she wants to be single, it is a choice."

Makes sense yes...I think she wants both..to be married and be able to go out and explore new people. That is what she having to choose right now after our conversation last night. That is what I am going to have to wait for an answer from her for weeks or month...how agonizing...she is choosing whether to explore her new feelings of meeting new people and throw away 9yrs we have or to stay married and be fully committed. never been tortured so badly.

In his books, Dr. Harley recommends that married couples not have friendships with people of the opposite sex to the exclusion of your spouse. We should not share private, intimate conversation with people of the opposite sex.

You are right to maintain proper bounderies in your marriage. I would not consider this a selfish demand. We are taught to foresake all others when we marry. What part of that doesn't your wife get? I believe that open marriages have a very high failure rate. This isn't just a stage...this is a character, morals, and values issue.

I hope you don't have children. If and when you do have children do you want to go on Maury or Jerry Springer to find out if you are the father.

I hope your wife comes to her senses and makes the right choice for your marriage.

You and your wife will gain nothing but heartache if you allow this type behavior.

My wife is wanting, and has been, going against everything she was ever taught and exploring new things....?????

Dear Skyhawk,

I understand very much where you are coming from, because I am in a similar situation with my H.
I think that your wife is making a lot of independent decisions. A good first step could be to introduce the MB concept of POJA to her - ie that you both need to negotiate decisions until you are both happy. If she keeps acting without thought of your feelings, she will just continue hurting you until you lose all of your love for her and actually want to leave her.
You may find she is open to this idea, and if thats the case, then you need to make sure you are clear about your boundaries (know your own boundaries) when you negotiate about whether its ok for her to have friends outside your relationship, and what forms the friendships should take.
good luck!

I'm scared for you. Swinging is not a lifestyle that will lead you anywhere good. I think you know that already. I also know from personal experience that it's possible to talk oneself into believing it's an acceptable way of dealing with things and that can lead to serious devastation.

I think setting boundries right about now would be wise. I think being firm on this would be wise... non-judgemental and respectful, yes, but firm.

Then counselling. You need to learn to meet those needs that she thinks can be met by outsiders.

Please take this bull by the horns and lead it somewhere better. Or it will destroy everything in the china shop that is your marriage.

Oh yeah... a reminder to people... this is Marriage Builders... as in Builders... I don't think Skyhawk came here to be encouraged (on his first thread) to go see a lawyer and proceed with a divorce. Shame. His Wife may not be acting very decently right now, but she is still his Wife and I'm sure she was chosen to fill that position for a whole series of good reasons.

Oh, and there's a big difference between selfish demands and setting boundries.

Welcome to MB. So sorry you found yourself here. There's a General Welcome Thread at this link that will give you an overview of MB and it's principles that might help get you aquainted.


John

SH,
I don't understand all the equivocation on this issue. Your WW (yes she is a WW, she’s had to 2 affairs that she admitted to) and is planning another right now. Your W is going on a dinner date with another M! Get it? She’s dating! Married people don’t date. Single people date.

And all of this is alright because she‘s showing you the great respect of telling you so to your face; as if this to her credit on some imaginary “honesty and integrity” scorecard? So in effect, she’s decided to be just a cheater (as apposed to a cheater and a lyre) and your feelings be damned if you’re not sophisticated enough to handle it? And it’s all-OK because she not being a hypocrite about it?

Sorry to respectfully disagree with all my learned MB friends here but this is not a plan A issue.

Your WW has apparently decided that she enjoyed her freedom to live the single life while she was away “studying” and wants to continue being single. The relationship she is suggesting to you is that you become roommates. Great! You guys can both come home from your dates and compare notes. This would make for a great plan A! But anything to save the marriage right?

Hummm, here’s an idea. Why don’t you suggest she bring her friend home with her, ALONG WITH HIS WIFE, and you can all enjoy the date together as well as that all important philosophical discussion. Now wouldn’t that serve you WW’s “needs” as well?

Here’s another thought. Go right to plan B. she admits that she already knows how wonderful you are and how important you are to her life so doing a further plan A while she is behaving in this matter will only serve to empty the old “love bank.” So ask her for an answer to the question you put to her right away. And if she wants to give it thought, ask her to give you a time and day that you may expect her reply. And if she decides that she can’t live with the marital boundaries that you’ve proposed, have the plan B letter ready to give her on the spot.

One last thought SH. If you truly love your WW then agreeing to her terms or just turning your back and making believe her cheating is not really cheating is a sure fire, one way ticket toward you learning what hell on earth is really about.

coach

I, too, can speak from experience regarding polyamory. In this case, it appears to me that your wife is trying to use it to fill a need that is missing in your marriage. That's very likely to cause significant and lasting harm to your, your wife, and your marriage.

I understand your confusion about making demands versus setting boundaries. I had exactly the same trouble when I first started this journey, lo these many moons ago. Here's how it works:

"It hurts me that you're dating other men. I don't want you to do that. What are you going to do to end the affair?"

Now it's up to her. She has COMPLETE FREE WILL to answer any way she wants to. She can say no. Because of that, you are not making a demand.

What she's said so far is that she needs time to think about it. Great. Plan for six weeks of that time. During that time, yes, read up on Plan A. Here are key things you can do:

- Build a supportive environment (also known as exposure): Talk to key people in your life and your wife's life. Tell them about the affairs and the current situation. Tell them that you love your wife and want to remain married. Ask for their help in doing that.

- Speak to your wife quietly -- and no more often than once a day -- about the situation. "It hurts me that you've had an affair and are continuing to do so. I love you and want to remain married to you."

- The rest of the time, create an environment that supports her. You can't do it directly right now, probably -- she's thinking through something that's very painful for her and for you. So instead, make a household and a life that's supportive, comfortable, cheerful, whatever.

Here are some ideas: Make sure there's fresh coffee if she likes it in the morning. Bring home flowers on a Tuesday for no reason except that you thought she'd like them. Make sure all the bills are paid, the lawn is mowed, the bed is made. Draw her a bubble bath, hand her a glass of wineand a good book, and disappear.

At the end of six weeks, reconsider your options. You may want to continue this approach. You may want to change to a Plan B approach. But I'd suggest that you start with this one.

Oh, and yes, please do contact either Penny or the Harleys. Penny knows more about polyamory, from what I can tell, but either one will agree that in this situation, the first problem to deal with is whether your own marriage is going to stay intact or not.

Dear Skyhawk, sorry to hear things are not much better.

I have to agree with the point about the difference between setting a boundary and making demands. Its true you can only tell you wife how you feel when you find out about her actions. Do this as non-threatening as possible. Demanding she not do or do something will only make her more resistant.

Although this site is about saving marriages, sadly the ws is not themselves during this time and you may need to protect yourself against your ws and this may include legal advice about finances, counselling, support groups, etc.

Be consistent and be you. Show her what you have learnt here and in other places by doing it and being it.