Different side of same question, but yes, IQ did have something to do in my situation...H said he was attracted to OW because she wasn't as smart...said he married me because I was/am smart and can handle myself rather well, but said he does sometimes feel intimidated by me, because I just seem to know a little bit about everything...he said the OW didn't have all the answers, she was a bit of a ditz and it was a welcomed change! Thing is, I'd been trying to get him to ante-up to the plate and be the one making all the decisions since we got married...sure, I was confident, independent and had my stuff together when we met - I had to...I was 22yo with a 1yo child...I didn't have a choice but to get my shyite together...

So, yah, maybe it did have more to do than just with the OW, maybe it was me? But, truth be known, H's IQ is higher than mine...only reason why I got better grades in school was because he skipped more than I did!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> did I just say that out loud!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

OK, well got more to think about now!! Thanks for cranking up the brain waves...man, is it smokey in here??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

On pure IQ, my husband is much smarter (and he is the WS). He is one of those people who has tons of unrealized genius (walking encyclopedia, very logical, could repeat all kinds of interesting facts and seemed to know quite a bit about everything, but could not get off of his butt and get anything done to save his life).

I was fairly intelligent (slightly above average intelligence...college educated, made solidly good grades, articulate, etc.), however, unlike WH, I was always the one with truckloads of drive (I mean, if I had a goal, I would STEAMROLL my way through the obstacles, not in a Machiavelian way, but I would not let discouragement or set backs get me down). So I would learn enough of what I needed to know to make me an expert on a given passion of mine, and get on with taking names and kicking you-know-what-else.

So, I think my draw to MB was they were a bunch of experts in this area of infidelity, and could give me an action plan to GET SOMETHIN' DONE!

Unfortunately, marriage reconcilation does not really work with the STEAMROLL approach..so, again, perhaps I am truly the dumber one...well, wait, then again, I am NOT THE ONE WHO HAD AN A!

Maybe we are dumber and dumbererer..rrr.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

Hi Board! Just got home from 1/2 day at work. Head pounding from stress and allergies. Real bad day.

Anyhoo, I'm not going to disclose some earth-shattering reaon why I posted this question. Just been thinking about it alot lately (maybe some self-pitying in there) and really (sincerely) wanted to know what everyone thought. (I really respect everyone's opinion here; what better way to try to learn and grow more from the great persepectives on here?!?!)

What great food for thought. I think I owe it to all of you posters to give you a little background for brown and me.

I went to a nationally known HS. (Arguably the best in the US.) I had always been a straight A student--til HS. Never applied myself; never met my potential. Went to RIT--and dropped oout. Had no clue what I wanted to be when I grew up. Went to CC for parts of 3 years--still don't even have my AD! Sort of a ho-hum family background. (Although I was sheltered from alot. Finding out now lots of mental disorders/diseases on both sides.)
Brown, on the other hand, was a "number" in a very large school district. (The largest in the US.) Decent student--B/C. She graduated HS early and had "our" son two months later. Never had the opportunity to develop herself as "our" second son was born 16 months later. Some college as she got older, but also never graduated. Very "tough" childhood. (Don't want to get into it too much, as I did not discuss with her what she would/wouldn't feel comfortable with me posting.) However, some things: father died when she was 9 (apparent suicide); always felt "left out and left behind"; never really felt loved; had to take care of herself from about age 11--emotionally and physically.

With that in mind, brown always felt inferior to me--intellectually. I at many times felt intimidated by her strong "presence." I have always been an emotional person, but with everything in mind, definitely not emotionally stable. Always felt brown was that one. Ironic how she's the one that had the mental breakdown and I the A. But not really.

I'm not harping on the past. But if I don't know what makes me tick and the reasons "why" (for lots of things), than I feel I'm in sorrier shape than I even expected. I am fearful of what I may find out about myself and past. Honestly. But I am ready to. With all of the responses to this thread, it's helped me that much more to take a step further into discovering who I really am. Thanks.

Some of what I got out of this:

GC: You mentioned the word "change" three times. Why are we so afraid of change? For me, It involves knowing who I really am. At this point in life, I don't know if I like me or not.

jph: In your quest for 2x4's ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), you actually said something that I had to think about before I posted my question(s): "smart" vs. "intellect."

bij: No grain of salt! That made complete sense. For me, that is, until the last line:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, many logic based, analytical thinkers, are not risk takers. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frigging ironic, as I am very analytical, but a high risk taker. (Boy, my new IC is going to have fun with me!)

maddy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you mean do we feel the BS is of higher intelligence with a better emotional foundation than our WSs? Or do you mean of the general populace?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both.


fish:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The big unknown here has to be the number of BS's who will never look at MB...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I/we were doing a study, this would be a huge influence (what's the scientific word?) on the reults. They would be tainted. MB--and the "members"--have been so influential and a life-line to so many of us from "both sides." Point well taken.

sad: You put into words what IMHO is the case--it just depends on the individual(s).
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a difference between intellectual intelligence and emotional intelligence. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">redhat:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What r u tying 2 say ?. Why BS fails to protect M ? or WS is too dumb to have A ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I honestly wasn't trying to "say" anything, per se. Just gain more knowledge over the intellect that is on this site! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

pep: you quoted exactly what I quoted sad. Hmmm... Maybe I'm not so "dumb" after all! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

weaver: Couldn't help yerself, now cudya?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess my point is that the very nature of infidelity and the very nature of growth links them together, as in what comes from infedility for the BS is incredible intellectual, spiritual and emotional growth by reason of necessity for survival.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suppose this really is the most important--the NOW! I just think I need to know more about me before I really can like me.

ttf: You described me! Any hopes on having aff (askingforforgiveness) post? I'm sure we'd have ALOT to talk about! Unfortunate, how we both have to relearn this though. The right time, this time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ng: Unfortuantely, in a lot of ways, you also described me (regarding my gambling addiction.) I wanted to give the world to my W and F. But they don't need material things--just lil ol me and my SECURITY I can provide them. Insightful, ng--as usual!

ky: (Taking out my one-of-a-kind nerf 2x4...)[WHACK]. You're too funny!. But please remember: what we did was idiotic (G-rated version), but *WE* are not idiots! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Bob:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In truth I truly pity BS 'out there' who don't have the support of this wondrous community and the proven tenets of MB to help them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen, my friend. And...Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Druc:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've thought several times in my life that people who have been through tough times seem 'deeper' to me. My early childhood friends were painfully shy, or chubby; one had a scar on her face... they always seems more interesting, smarter, or more aware. Always better to talk to than the rest of the students (sheep).

They seem to have given real thought to different subjects in life, maybe they're just more introspective? I didnt realize it at the time, but it's so glaring, now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Deep. I completely agree.

FM: my friend. Once again, you keep getting stronger by the day! I hope and pray your W can feed off of you. (And about your D? Keep the faith; SHOW the faith. And show her, she still is Daddy's girl--just in a woman's body.)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Brains have nothing to do with emotions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this pretty much sums it up--I think! Not sure how I feel about it, though! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

yl: I guess it's sorta bittersweet for you. I'm sure you woould have taken sour vs an A anyday, though, huh?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for cranking up the brain waves...man, is it smokey in here??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm thinking its just WAT's grilled pork filtering over here!

dipit:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On pure IQ, my husband is much smarter (and he is the WS). He is one of those people who has tons of unrealized genius (walking encyclopedia, very logical, could repeat all kinds of interesting facts and seemed to know quite a bit about everything, but could not get off of his butt and get anything done to save his life). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A little less intellectual, and replace the last conjunction with "but has no common sense" and you've just about described me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe we are dumber and dumbererer..rrr.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cute! But, whose more smarter?

Thank you all. I thrive off of making my mind work--and you all have given me a lot to think about. Sorry for the lenghty reply, but each one of you replied to my thread, my questions; I thought it only fitting and appropriate that I do the same.

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

Liny -

Anyone who can overcome a gambling addiction has my utmost respect, especially when he doesn't turn to drinking or some other form of denial to replace the gambling. And I have a great deal of respect for people who find there way home after an affair, who are remorseful and who accept the hard road they must walk for redemption.

You are a man who is looking deep inside yourself for answers so that you can grow and become all that you can be.

Together you and Brown make quite a team. You have more than most people ever hope to have in each other and within yourselves.

And I am also sure that you are someone that anyone would be proud and lucky to have for a friend.

These things are my picture of success and you should be very proud.

Weaver

Hmm...giggle..well I'm still confused about the original observations...but...let me compare my first marriage with my 2nd one..

First marriage..intelligence was...I was much more intelligent than my H. Hate to say that but it's true. I was also more emotionally mature. BUT I was young. He did cheat on me and was totally unremorseful. I had NO desire to work out that marriage. Sure, it was sad. But he really was a different person than I was, and not in a good way. He FELT inferior and used that against me. Used my intelligence against me, used my desire to go to school against me, used my happy family against me, etc etc. He still tries to do it to this day. I think the MB principals probably would've worked really well with him and looking back, I definitely could've made an effort to try and rebuild the marriage. But I was so young and just could NOT see it ever getting better. I did not want my life to waste away before my eyes. Also, as wrong as this is, I went into that marriage believe that we would one day end up divorced. I never tried to push that feeling away, always kept it as an option. While I was more emotionally mature than he was, I was not emotionally mature, if that makes sense.

2nd marriage:
Ws and I have about the same level of intelligence. We are both smartypants <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We are both solution-oriented. Now..we're talking brain smarts here. We have the same basic life goals. I would say we're not THE smartest among the general populace, but we'd both easily get into MENSA if we had the desire.

Emotional or personality maturity. Hmmm...In some ways I am more mature, in other ways he's more mature. Keep in mind that he is younger than me.
I am CURRENTLY more mature in regards to our marriage than he is. This is not because of MB (though MB is now taking this maturity further), but came about because of his affair. Before his affair, I would say we were kind of at the same level. I had some unrealistic and unfair expectations of him, and he had some unrealistic expectations of the marriage in general. I would say I was a LITTLE more relationship mature for him--I don't think he ever got all of his "wild oats" out. But on the other hand, there were times when I was really toxic to our relationship.

I think MB has probably helped me be more relationship-mature than the general populace.

Now..."life maturity"..I think my husband wins on that one. I'm working on this and growing, but I'm not there yet. I will admit to being a procrastinator...will admit to sometimes letting things happen to me instead of making them happen. That sometimes I get the attitude of, "But I DESERVE this". This is all kind of immature. At least I am aware and working on it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My husband is very motivated, very dedicated, always works for what he wants, has a great sense of responsibility, etc etc. I saw him as an inspritions..someone I aspired to be like. I admire these qualities of his. But he has lost a lot of respect (I think) for my opposite qualities...I think it helped to bring us to the pre-A state of marriage we were in. He has a hard time understanding why sometimes people need outside motivation and encouragement. He feels that it should ALL come from within and the realization that it just needs to be done. Where I do have inside motivation, but admiration from others and encouragement from others helps me a lot. He has a really really hard time undertanding this. He always "let me" do whatever I wanted to do because he never felt that he should interfere. When I was going to school and started skipping classes and finally dropped out, he never said a word, even though it bothered him and he knew I would regret it. I wish he had. I think it would've given me a wake-up call. We talked about this the other day..and believe it or not...when I talked about going to school in the spring, possibly, he said he would check-in with me to make sure I'm keeping on track.

I don't think that brain-smarts necessarily have anything to do with anything...EXCEPT maybe that if that person has used those smarts..and maybe more open to technology, etc. The internet can really be a godsend of information. The internet wasn't around when I first started college. I'm in engineering so computers were a must for us and I never felt uncomfortable with them. A lot of friends my age are not really computer savvy and might not think about looking for marital information over the net. I'm not saying this is true for everyone..but I think it can be an edge.

I think "life" maturity and emotional maturity have a lot to do with everything. Helps with seeing the benefit of staying married vs divorce, helps us to seek solutions, etc.

I'm not sure if any of that answered to your observation..or if it even made sense...lol..

<small>[ September 22, 2004, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: maddyk ]</small>

IMHO an A has nothing to do with intelligence, but with coping mechanisms (or the lack of them). We may need/want/lack something but we have no idea how to "get" it from our spouse. This can go on for years, sometimes we don't even know exactly what we "need" until some OP comes along and wham, they are providing us big time with what we "need" - or so we think.

Highly intelligent people can crave admiration. Or touch. Or excitement. If they have never been taught good coping mechanisms to face life's difficulties, they will think they have no other choice (at that time) than to have a A to satisfy the deep need that their lack of coping with life-as-it-is has created. Or they might give into another addiction that their intelligence and reasoning cannot justify, yet they do it anyway. They will smoke, drink, drive, drug themselves to death. Just to fill the holes they carry with them from childhood and that they so desperately try to fill with all the wrong things.

maddy & browhair...I promise I will respond after work...have so much running around to do today!

weaver:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone who can overcome a gambling addiction has my utmost respect, especially when he doesn't turn to drinking or some other form of denial to replace the gambling. And I have a great deal of respect for people who find there way home after an affair, who are remorseful and who accept the hard road they must walk for redemption.

You are a man who is looking deep inside yourself for answers so that you can grow and become all that you can be.

Together you and Brown make quite a team. You have more than most people ever hope to have in each other and within yourselves.

And I am also sure that you are someone that anyone would be proud and lucky to have for a friend.

These things are my picture of success and you should be very proud.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I deal with those demons daily. I am in the process of overcoming it; I still have yet to be COMPLETELY triumphant. (I hope I didn't lose any respect.)

And, thank you. You brought tears to my eyes...something that hasn't happened in awhile.

Bob Pure Said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For a BS to study SAA, or MB's website, to comprehend enough of it in the darkest days of their life to adhere to an entirely counter-intuite program for the rscue of a M that the BS only intsinctively wants to rescue at that point proably means he BS in here have gone through some significant filtering. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You beat me to that one BP! That was my answer.

In addition, to this what you witness on this board is often a transformation. An emotional metamorphisis that takes place in the BS. That is all nothing more.

I was going to post my IQ but I can't remember what it was last time I tested. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

C.

<small>[ September 22, 2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: shmaley ]</small>

maddy...you added a whole new dimension to my questions: maturity. That's a whole 'nother thread: "Which sex is the most mature?" HA! Could you imagine the 2x4's coming out on that thread?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by brownhair:
<strong> IMHO an A has nothing to do with intelligence, but with coping mechanisms (or the lack of them). We may need/want/lack something but we have no idea how to "get" it from our spouse. This can go on for years, sometimes we don't even know exactly what we "need" until some OP comes along and wham, they are providing us big time with what we "need" - or so we think.

Highly intelligent people can crave admiration. Or touch. Or excitement. If they have never been taught good coping mechanisms to face life's difficulties, they will think they have no other choice (at that time) than to have a A to satisfy the deep need that their lack of coping with life-as-it-is has created. Or they might give into another addiction that their intelligence and reasoning cannot justify, yet they do it anyway. They will smoke, drink, drive, drug themselves to death. Just to fill the holes they carry with them from childhood and that they so desperately try to fill with all the wrong things. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or gambling? Wow! Brownh....wow. (Probably the name! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) Besides the whole "intelligence" thing that I'm really curious about, I think you nailed me on the head. "Coping mechanisms." I'm sorry I requoted your whole post, but for me, it deserves to be repeated over and over. (May even bring a copy to my IC tommorrow.) This, is what I'm afraid of unearthing. The reasons "why". For me, I think you really nailed it. Wow. (Oh, and thank you!)
It's funny: something so obvioous, yet it has to be said by another outside of one's situation for one to "get it."

Hello LINY,

I'm glad my observation helped you! I know - it's scary unearthing the "why's"... but (and this I know from experience) the FEAR of such ghosts from the past is far greater than actually coming face to face with them. And finally dealing with them.

Have you ever seen the movie "Good Will Hunting" ?

Maybe it takes a little strengh and wisdom to survive an affair and if you have to ability to look at the event as a snapshot in time that you realize that there is so much more to a marriage. I believe that the easy way out is to just leave. It takes a certain amount of brains to digest the information and use it. It takes a lot for both WS and BS to work it out and do what is better for the greater good than to mearly react to a situation. Now in some cases there is no other choice than to leave, but our friends here on MB have carefully thought about the options that they have.

My H is a smart guy for a WS, he knew what he had with us and knew he would be better off in the end. I can feel his love and respect everytime he smiles at me in the morning when we wake up together. I also see that look of oh my, where would I be today if we hadn't worked this out. He is a very happy man and I am happy too. It takes a great deal of strengh and intelligence for a WS to admit they did the wrong thing and recomit to thier family to the BS. Sure the affair is exciting and fun, but eventually you have to return to real life. I think my H is happy that he was smart enough to figure it out and happy that I was smart enough to see the bigger picture. Gosh I love him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LINY, just an added note on maturity.

I would say that right now, post separation, my husband is regressing in his maturity level. He still has his work ethic for his career...

But he HAS done things to jeapordize that career (like dating while still married...stupid enough in itself, but he's dating a girl at the base club). He's spending a lot of money, drinking a lot (not towards alcoholism, but when he goes out he drinks a lot), hanging out with ONLY single people (not totally avoiding our married friends, but it's noticiable), staying out until 3 or 4 in the morning (when I was there...10 PM was bedtime every night unless we were out). He has completely jettisoned anything in his life that smacks of the tiniest bit of responsibility, aside from work and financial obligations that were already in place before I left.

If I had to pin it down, I would say that he's going through an early MLC as he approaches 30. I would say that when most single people approach this age, that is when they start thinking more about marriage and settling down. Not so for my H.

I think another thing that CANNOT be ignored is family history and this contributes to relationship-maturity. My parents are still married, even though there were times I had wished for them to divorce, and I have even encouraged my mom to leave my dad in the past, though I love them both. My husband's family, on the other hand. His dad has remarried once and they are still together. He seems to be one who learned from the past..and I've talked to my step MIL and she is really disappointed in what my h is doing right now and not living up to his commitments. His mom, though, has been married so many times, I'm not even sure of the count, but I think it's 4. she's been in her last marriage for a long time and I think this is her keeper. My point being that relational intelligence is SO much a product of your history. Ya know what my husband said to my inlaws (dad and step-mom). Very casually and with blase attitude said, "Well, I can always consider K to be my first wife". Like it was no big deal what we're going through and that divorce is a completely acceptable and valid option.

I actually feel really bad for him sometimes because unless he changes, I see his future and it is just lonely and grim.

brownh...have the movie...funny, one I never watched, though. (Once we get into the new place, I'll make it apoint of it that will be one of the first one's we atch.

shm:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An emotional metamorphisis</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love it!

nj: Now repeat after me: "I'm a big brave dog. I'm a big brave dog"--Chucky, Rugrats

maddy--ah, yes, another variable to throw into the mix--the gene pool!

WHAT ??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I've been dieing to do that LOL I am one unitellegent BS ,,, cause I am still trying to understand the question . Maybe I am thinking to hard .

Or maybe I used all my brain power up with couping with the A .

SEE ya LINY . LOL

3iac: Well, there goes my theory!
Ha! LOL! And certainly: JUST KIDDING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

(My question? Bottom line? Are BS' more intelligent than WS'? Just wanted to get the noodles going....speaking of which....???)